The Letter to the Romans...
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Romans 2:12, "For as many as have sinned without the Law, will also perish without the Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law, will be judged by the Law."
Mattithyah 16:27, “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His Malakim; and then He will reward every man according to his works.”
Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."
Acts 17:30-31, “In the past Yahweh winked at such ignorance, but now He commands all men everywhere to repent! For He has appointed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness, by a Man whom He has ordained; and He has given evidence to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”
Romans 2:4-11, “Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, forbearance, and longsuffering; not realizing that Yahweh’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But according to your stubborn and impenitent mind you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of Yahweh’s wrath, when the righteous judgment of Yahweh will be revealed; when He will reward each one according to his works: to the ones on the one hand, who, by patient persistence in doing righteousness, seek for glory, honor and immortality, He will give eternal life. But to the ones on the other hand, who are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give indignation and wrath.” Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man who does evil: to the Yahdai(Jew) first, and also to the Greek (Gentile) But glory, honor, and peace to every man who works righteousness: to the Yahdai first, and also to the Greek. For there is no respect of persons with Yahweh.”
2 Corinthians 5:10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, that each one may receive his reward according to what he has done in the body, whether righteous or evil.”
Colossians 3:24-25, “Knowing that from Yahweh you will receive the reward of the inheritance; for you serve Yahshua the Messiah. But he who does wrong will receive the reward for the wrong he has done, and there is no respect of persons.”
1 Kepha (Peter) 1:17-18, “And if you call on the Father, Who without respect of persons judges according to each man’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your sojourning here in reverence. Knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, such as silver or gold, from your idolatrous way of life handed down to you by tradition from your fathers.”
Mattithyah 15:3, “But Yahshua answered, and said to them: and why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?”
Revelation 20:12-13, “And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before Yahweh. And the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and Death and Sheol delivered up the dead which were in them. And they were judged, every man, according to their works.”
Revelation 22:12, “And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be.”
Yaaqob (James) 2:26, “For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also.”
2 Timothy 4:3-4, “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts they will heap to themselves teachers, who will tickle their ears, and they will turn away their ears from the truth, and be turned to fables.”
Hebrews 10:26-30, "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Those who rejected the Law given through Mosheh died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished, who has trampled the Son of Yahweh underfoot, and has counted the blood of the covenant (with which He was sanctified) an unholy thing, and who has insulted the Spirit of mercy? For we know Him Who has said: Vengeance is Mine; I will repay, says Yahweh. And again: Yahweh will judge His people."
Yahchanan 5:14, "Afterward, Yahshua found him in the sacred precincts and said to him: Behold, you are healed. Sin no more, or a worse thing will come upon you."
Romans 3:25, "Whom Yahweh set forth as a sacrifice of atonement by His own blood, through the faith, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of Yahweh."
Hebrews 6:3-6, "If indeed Yahweh permits, we will now proceed to advanced teaching. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, And the righteous, having come to
know that which is spoken by Yahweh through the Law and the Prophets, the power of Yahweh, and the world to come, If they shall fall away, it is impossible for them to be renewed to repentance again. They have rejected the Son of Yahweh, and therefore are alienated from Yahweh."
1 Corinthians 9:24-27, "Do you not know that those who run in a race all compete, but only one receives the prize? So run your race that you may lay hold of the prize, and make it yours. And everyone who competes conducts himself temperately in all things. Now they compete to obtain a perishable crown; but we for an imperishable crown. Therefore, I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man who beats the air. No, I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified."
1 Corinthians 4:4-5, "For I know nothing by myself; yet by this I am not justified, for He Who judges me is Yahweh! Therefore, judge nothing before the time. Wait until Yahshua comes, Who will bring to light the things hidden in darkness, and will reveal the secret intentions of men's hearts; and then each man will receive praise from Yahweh."
Psalm 69:27-28, "Add iniquity to their iniquity! Let them not come into Your righteousness! May they be blotted out of The Book of Life, and not be written with the righteous!"
Revelation 3:5, "He who overcomes, the same will be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name from The Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and before His malakim."
Yaaqob 2:19-22, "You believe that there is one Father? You do well; the demons also believe, and tremble. But are you willing to know, O vain man, that the faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Do you see that the faith worked together with his works, and by works the faith makes perfect?"
Mattithyah 16:27, “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His Malakim; and then He will reward every man according to his works.”
Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."
Acts 17:30-31, “In the past Yahweh winked at such ignorance, but now He commands all men everywhere to repent! For He has appointed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness, by a Man whom He has ordained; and He has given evidence to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”
Romans 2:4-11, “Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, forbearance, and longsuffering; not realizing that Yahweh’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But according to your stubborn and impenitent mind you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of Yahweh’s wrath, when the righteous judgment of Yahweh will be revealed; when He will reward each one according to his works: to the ones on the one hand, who, by patient persistence in doing righteousness, seek for glory, honor and immortality, He will give eternal life. But to the ones on the other hand, who are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give indignation and wrath.” Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man who does evil: to the Yahdai(Jew) first, and also to the Greek (Gentile) But glory, honor, and peace to every man who works righteousness: to the Yahdai first, and also to the Greek. For there is no respect of persons with Yahweh.”
2 Corinthians 5:10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, that each one may receive his reward according to what he has done in the body, whether righteous or evil.”
Colossians 3:24-25, “Knowing that from Yahweh you will receive the reward of the inheritance; for you serve Yahshua the Messiah. But he who does wrong will receive the reward for the wrong he has done, and there is no respect of persons.”
1 Kepha (Peter) 1:17-18, “And if you call on the Father, Who without respect of persons judges according to each man’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your sojourning here in reverence. Knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, such as silver or gold, from your idolatrous way of life handed down to you by tradition from your fathers.”
Mattithyah 15:3, “But Yahshua answered, and said to them: and why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?”
Revelation 20:12-13, “And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before Yahweh. And the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and Death and Sheol delivered up the dead which were in them. And they were judged, every man, according to their works.”
Revelation 22:12, “And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be.”
Yaaqob (James) 2:26, “For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also.”
2 Timothy 4:3-4, “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts they will heap to themselves teachers, who will tickle their ears, and they will turn away their ears from the truth, and be turned to fables.”
Hebrews 10:26-30, "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Those who rejected the Law given through Mosheh died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished, who has trampled the Son of Yahweh underfoot, and has counted the blood of the covenant (with which He was sanctified) an unholy thing, and who has insulted the Spirit of mercy? For we know Him Who has said: Vengeance is Mine; I will repay, says Yahweh. And again: Yahweh will judge His people."
Yahchanan 5:14, "Afterward, Yahshua found him in the sacred precincts and said to him: Behold, you are healed. Sin no more, or a worse thing will come upon you."
Romans 3:25, "Whom Yahweh set forth as a sacrifice of atonement by His own blood, through the faith, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of Yahweh."
Hebrews 6:3-6, "If indeed Yahweh permits, we will now proceed to advanced teaching. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, And the righteous, having come to
know that which is spoken by Yahweh through the Law and the Prophets, the power of Yahweh, and the world to come, If they shall fall away, it is impossible for them to be renewed to repentance again. They have rejected the Son of Yahweh, and therefore are alienated from Yahweh."
1 Corinthians 9:24-27, "Do you not know that those who run in a race all compete, but only one receives the prize? So run your race that you may lay hold of the prize, and make it yours. And everyone who competes conducts himself temperately in all things. Now they compete to obtain a perishable crown; but we for an imperishable crown. Therefore, I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man who beats the air. No, I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified."
1 Corinthians 4:4-5, "For I know nothing by myself; yet by this I am not justified, for He Who judges me is Yahweh! Therefore, judge nothing before the time. Wait until Yahshua comes, Who will bring to light the things hidden in darkness, and will reveal the secret intentions of men's hearts; and then each man will receive praise from Yahweh."
Psalm 69:27-28, "Add iniquity to their iniquity! Let them not come into Your righteousness! May they be blotted out of The Book of Life, and not be written with the righteous!"
Revelation 3:5, "He who overcomes, the same will be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name from The Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and before His malakim."
Yaaqob 2:19-22, "You believe that there is one Father? You do well; the demons also believe, and tremble. But are you willing to know, O vain man, that the faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Do you see that the faith worked together with his works, and by works the faith makes perfect?"
H
To Hizilyah, you and I can quote the Bible ,clearly showing Elin and, modern Funny mentalists wrong, and they will not hear God's clear words. If the heart,mind and soul are, is, not apart of our conscience , then what is? But in chap 2,Paul is talking of the pure good concience of a resurrectd person, because the setting is the judgment day, not in this life. God judges all by their works of faith and love, done to eternal life, done by God's grace; But the works of the lost are done of the sinful flesh, done to damnation. But funny mentalist will not receive the whole word of God. Hoffco
H
Elin, I do not see how you can say, contrary to God, that men, without the written law, will be judged by their conscience?God's word's says, God will judge all by their works. And ,Jesus said, "those who do good will have a resurrection to life" So, in this sense, if our hearts condemn us, so will God; The Holy Spirit witnesses with our hearts,conscience, that we are saved, only if our works match our faith. If we don't live for Jesus the Holy Spirit won't assure us of salvation. But if our conscience doesn't condemn us, we know we are save. Hoffco
H
But we must keep in mind , Paul is saying this is how our conscience will work on the Judgment day. then conscience will be perfect, on the judgment day, and will accuse us of all the wrong we did and it will defend us for all the good we did. The more we train our hearts, consciences, in right and wrong, the better our conscience can judge/guide us in this life. Hoffco
Are you confusing conscience with conscious?
The heart is like the tablet on which the natural law was written for the Gentile.
The conscience is like the judge who declares obedience and disobedience of the Gentile
according to the natural law written on the tablet (his heart).
However, though the Gentiles were not given the law of Moses, and had no knowledge of it,
there was a natural law (containing parts of the Mosaic law) written on their hearts.
That natural law written on their hearts was the measure by which their consciences judged them,
sometimes accusing them of disobedience, sometimes defending their obedience.
What part Ro 2:14-15 do you not understand?
No. . .in chp 2 Paul is showing the unrighteousness of the Jews,
after having shown the unrighteousness of the Gentiles in 1:18-32.
In chp 2, Paul sets forth the principles that govern God's judgment at the final judgment:
1) according to truth (v.2) for the wicked who held the truth in unrighteousness
2) according to deeds (vv. 6-11), for Jews who were under the law of Moses, and
3) according to the light one has (vv. 12-15), for Gentiles who had no knowledge of the Mosaic law,
but had the natural law (which is parts of the Mosaic law) written on their hearts.
Our discussion falls under principle (3), "according to the light one has."
The Gentiles did not have the light of God's external revealed law.
They had only the light of internal natural law (written on their hearts).
At the final judgment, Gentiles will not be condemned for not obeying the law of Moses
which they did not possess.
Their judgment will be on other grounds (1:18-20, 2:15); i.e., principle (3) above.
However, the Jews will be condemned for not obeying the law of Moses which they did possess.
Their disobedience is the unrighteousness Paul is showing in chp 2.
Paul is not discussing the final judgment of those in Christ of the NT.
He is showing the condemnation of all men, Gentile and Jew, before the NT.
He is showing that all men are shut up in sin (3:19), to set the stage for the revelation
of a righteousness from God (3:21-22), not by law keeping, but apart from the law.
At the final judgment, men will be judged according to what transpired in their lives.
The wicked will be judged by the truth which they held in unrighteousness during their lives,
the Jews will be judged by the Mosaic law which they disobeyed during their lives, and
the Gentiles will be judged by the natural law which they disobeyed during their lives.
And those in Christ will be judged according to the faith which saved them during their lives,
so at the final judgment, there can be no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus (Ro 8:1).
The heart is like the tablet on which the natural law was written for the Gentile.
The conscience is like the judge who declares obedience and disobedience of the Gentile
according to the natural law written on the tablet (his heart).
However, though the Gentiles were not given the law of Moses, and had no knowledge of it,
there was a natural law (containing parts of the Mosaic law) written on their hearts.
That natural law written on their hearts was the measure by which their consciences judged them,
sometimes accusing them of disobedience, sometimes defending their obedience.
What part Ro 2:14-15 do you not understand?
No. . .in chp 2 Paul is showing the unrighteousness of the Jews,
after having shown the unrighteousness of the Gentiles in 1:18-32.
In chp 2, Paul sets forth the principles that govern God's judgment at the final judgment:
1) according to truth (v.2) for the wicked who held the truth in unrighteousness
2) according to deeds (vv. 6-11), for Jews who were under the law of Moses, and
3) according to the light one has (vv. 12-15), for Gentiles who had no knowledge of the Mosaic law,
but had the natural law (which is parts of the Mosaic law) written on their hearts.
Our discussion falls under principle (3), "according to the light one has."
The Gentiles did not have the light of God's external revealed law.
They had only the light of internal natural law (written on their hearts).
At the final judgment, Gentiles will not be condemned for not obeying the law of Moses
which they did not possess.
Their judgment will be on other grounds (1:18-20, 2:15); i.e., principle (3) above.
However, the Jews will be condemned for not obeying the law of Moses which they did possess.
Their disobedience is the unrighteousness Paul is showing in chp 2.
Paul is not discussing the final judgment of those in Christ of the NT.
He is showing the condemnation of all men, Gentile and Jew, before the NT.
He is showing that all men are shut up in sin (3:19), to set the stage for the revelation
of a righteousness from God (3:21-22), not by law keeping, but apart from the law.
At the final judgment, men will be judged according to what transpired in their lives.
The wicked will be judged by the truth which they held in unrighteousness during their lives,
the Jews will be judged by the Mosaic law which they disobeyed during their lives, and
the Gentiles will be judged by the natural law which they disobeyed during their lives.
And those in Christ will be judged according to the faith which saved them during their lives,
so at the final judgment, there can be no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus (Ro 8:1).
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H
Elin your deletions and twisting the content of the Word of God leads to your errors in interpretation. Paul very clearly says ,the keeping of the law by the saved Gentile puts the false Jew to shame, and the conscience of the saved Gentile will act "in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ,". What day of judgment is this? It must be at the end of the world. This should such give you a guilty conscience . You are guilty of handling the word of God deceitfully. Love to all, Hoffco
Okay. . . "in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ" (v. 16) is to be read with v.12,
because the intervening vv. 13-15 are in parentheses and are an interruption of the thought.
Paul's statement reads:
"All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all you sin under the law
will be judged by the law. (v. 12)
This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares." (v. 16)
with a parenthetical interruption in vv. 13-15.
The conscience accusing and defending is not part of the body of his thought.
It is a parenthetical insertion interrupting the body of his thought, and does not refer
to the final judgment day after their death, but refers to their lives before judgment day.
Yes, we are agreed that Paul is referring to the final judgment at the end of time.
because the intervening vv. 13-15 are in parentheses and are an interruption of the thought.
Paul's statement reads:
"All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all you sin under the law
will be judged by the law. (v. 12)
This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares." (v. 16)
with a parenthetical interruption in vv. 13-15.
The conscience accusing and defending is not part of the body of his thought.
It is a parenthetical insertion interrupting the body of his thought, and does not refer
to the final judgment day after their death, but refers to their lives before judgment day.
Yes, we are agreed that Paul is referring to the final judgment at the end of time.
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(Corrections of some typos)
A recap of 20 principles presented in the first 128 verses of Romans (1:1-5:11) seems in order:
1) Grace was given to Paul to (call, thereby bringing about in others) obedience of faith. (1:5)
2) The gospel is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes, because it reveals
a righteousness from God, a free gift (5:17), that is through faith by grace, not through law-keeping.
Justification = righteousness = declared guiltless, given right standing before God.
The cause of justification (righteousness) is faith only.
The result of justification is sanctification, through the obedience of faith. (1:16-17, 3:31).
3) God's wrath is shown by giving men over to their sin, by judging (punishing) sin
with increased sin. (1:18)
4) God judges
according to truth, for those who hold the truth in unrighteousness (2:2),
according to deeds, for those under the Mosaic law (2:6-11), and
according to the light one has (2:12-15), for Gentiles who do not possess the Mosaic law.
5) Jews had the advantage of the word of God and the law, but they were not
the saving advantage of faith. (3:1-2)
6) Though Israel was unfaithful to God, God is faithful to his promise to punish sin
and unbelief. (3:3-5)
7) God cannot be unrighteous in bringing his wrath on unbelief, even if unbelief benefits
God by bringing out his righteousness more clearly, for Scripture everywhere testifies that
he is righteous and can do no wrong
(Dt 32:4; 2Ch 19:7; Job 34:10-11, 36:23; Ps 119:137; Eze 18:25; Da 4:37, 9:14). (Ro 3:6)
8) God has shut up all men in sin. (3:19)
9) God is both just in requiring penalty for sin, and the justifier by providing the payment
of the penalty. (3:26)
10) Righteousness through faith, apart from the law, has always been the teaching
of the OT (Ge 15:6). The Jews got it wrong. (3:28)
11) We do not "establish the law" by being made righteous according to it. That is anti-gospel.
We "establish the law" in the NT by establishing the right use of the law,
we don't overthrow the law, we establish its standing by fixing it on the right basis;
i.e., although we cannot be saved by it as a covenant, we submit to it in Christ's two
commandments (Mt 22:37-39), which are subject to the law of grace. (3:31)
12) Salvation is the forgiveness of sin,
which removes our guilt and God's wrath on it at the final judgment.
We are saved from the wrath of God at the final judgment, by forgiveness of our sin,
not by works of obedience. (4:8)
13) Circumcision was not an action (work) required to confirm faith.
Circumcision was a sign only, given as a seal to guarantee one's righteousness by faith,
apart from works. (4:11)
14) Those under the law cannot be heirs to the promise because
inheritance by law keeping makes faith worthless, and
law keeping effectively voids the promise, by disqualifying everyone and producing
only wrath. (4:14-15)
15) The promise can be guaranteed only if it is based on faith, because basing it on
law keeping can result only in wrath, it cannot result in fulfillment of the promise. (4:16)
Righteousness by faith was guaranteed by the sign of circumcision (4:11), and the
promise is guaranteed by grace through faith(4:16).
16) True saving faith is the conviction of belief, which obeys. (4:20)
17) The resurrection shows that Jesus' sacrifice was accepted as atonement for sin and,
therefore, we have, indeed, been justified (declared guiltless, given right standing before God). (4:25)
18) We are justified by faith, apart from any other actions of obedience, as was Abraham (Ge 15:6).
(5:1)
19) We are saved. . .from the wrath of God at the final judgment, because we have been
justified (declared guiltless, given right standing before God) through faith in Christ's blood (3:25),
which is his atoning death. (5:9)
20) Since God saved us from his wrath through justification (declared guiltless, right standing
before God) by Christ's atoning death, he shall also save (sanctify) us through Christ's
unending life, who ever lives to intercede for us (Heb 7:25; Ro 8:34). (5:10)
A recap of 20 principles presented in the first 128 verses of Romans (1:1-5:11) seems in order:
1) Grace was given to Paul to (call, thereby bringing about in others) obedience of faith. (1:5)
2) The gospel is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes, because it reveals
a righteousness from God, a free gift (5:17), that is through faith by grace, not through law-keeping.
Justification = righteousness = declared guiltless, given right standing before God.
The cause of justification (righteousness) is faith only.
The result of justification is sanctification, through the obedience of faith. (1:16-17, 3:31).
3) God's wrath is shown by giving men over to their sin, by judging (punishing) sin
with increased sin. (1:18)
4) God judges
according to truth, for those who hold the truth in unrighteousness (2:2),
according to deeds, for those under the Mosaic law (2:6-11), and
according to the light one has (2:12-15), for Gentiles who do not possess the Mosaic law.
5) Jews had the advantage of the word of God and the law, but they were not
the saving advantage of faith. (3:1-2)
6) Though Israel was unfaithful to God, God is faithful to his promise to punish sin
and unbelief. (3:3-5)
7) God cannot be unrighteous in bringing his wrath on unbelief, even if unbelief benefits
God by bringing out his righteousness more clearly, for Scripture everywhere testifies that
he is righteous and can do no wrong
(Dt 32:4; 2Ch 19:7; Job 34:10-11, 36:23; Ps 119:137; Eze 18:25; Da 4:37, 9:14). (Ro 3:6)
8) God has shut up all men in sin. (3:19)
9) God is both just in requiring penalty for sin, and the justifier by providing the payment
of the penalty. (3:26)
10) Righteousness through faith, apart from the law, has always been the teaching
of the OT (Ge 15:6). The Jews got it wrong. (3:28)
11) We do not "establish the law" by being made righteous according to it. That is anti-gospel.
We "establish the law" in the NT by establishing the right use of the law,
we don't overthrow the law, we establish its standing by fixing it on the right basis;
i.e., although we cannot be saved by it as a covenant, we submit to it in Christ's two
commandments (Mt 22:37-39), which are subject to the law of grace. (3:31)
12) Salvation is the forgiveness of sin,
which removes our guilt and God's wrath on it at the final judgment.
We are saved from the wrath of God at the final judgment, by forgiveness of our sin,
not by works of obedience. (4:8)
13) Circumcision was not an action (work) required to confirm faith.
Circumcision was a sign only, given as a seal to guarantee one's righteousness by faith,
apart from works. (4:11)
14) Those under the law cannot be heirs to the promise because
inheritance by law keeping makes faith worthless, and
law keeping effectively voids the promise, by disqualifying everyone and producing
only wrath. (4:14-15)
15) The promise can be guaranteed only if it is based on faith, because basing it on
law keeping can result only in wrath, it cannot result in fulfillment of the promise. (4:16)
Righteousness by faith was guaranteed by the sign of circumcision (4:11), and the
promise is guaranteed by grace through faith(4:16).
16) True saving faith is the conviction of belief, which obeys. (4:20)
17) The resurrection shows that Jesus' sacrifice was accepted as atonement for sin and,
therefore, we have, indeed, been justified (declared guiltless, given right standing before God). (4:25)
18) We are justified by faith, apart from any other actions of obedience, as was Abraham (Ge 15:6).
(5:1)
19) We are saved. . .from the wrath of God at the final judgment, because we have been
justified (declared guiltless, given right standing before God) through faith in Christ's blood (3:25),
which is his atoning death. (5:9)
20) Since God saved us from his wrath through justification (declared guiltless, right standing
before God) by Christ's atoning death, he shall also save (sanctify) us through Christ's
unending life, who ever lives to intercede for us (Heb 7:25; Ro 8:34). (5:10)
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So first by the redemption found in the death of Christ we recieve a new heart in the resurrected Christ given to us a free gift from Father
[h=3]Romans 6:1-11[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? [SUP]2 [/SUP]God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: [SUP]6 [/SUP]knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For he that is dead is freed from sin. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: [SUP]9 [/SUP]knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
[h=3]Romans 6:1-11[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? [SUP]2 [/SUP]God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: [SUP]6 [/SUP]knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For he that is dead is freed from sin. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: [SUP]9 [/SUP]knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
As I see this: Works of Faith, God's works through me will not burn up ever
Yet any flesh works I do of self will. Righteousness is a gift from God through Son's finished work, and we do by Faith what is right
Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Matthew 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
Matthew 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Law literally can destroy a person being in unredeemed flesh, and is good if it shows one their need to just believe and be made righteous from God through Son, Christ
Yet any flesh works I do of self will. Righteousness is a gift from God through Son's finished work, and we do by Faith what is right
Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Matthew 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
Matthew 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Law literally can destroy a person being in unredeemed flesh, and is good if it shows one their need to just believe and be made righteous from God through Son, Christ
And as you promote the works, are they of self or God?
Micah 2:1 Woe to them that devise iniquity, and work evil upon their beds! when the morning is light, they practise it, because it is in the power of their hand.
Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
There is a difference in and of flesh works that do masquerade as good yes?
Is it not true that only God's works will never burn up since only God is good, and we are nothing more by Faith partakers in this, if God permits?
Is this not how Christ himself walked by Faith alone in his Father and thus did as Father said to do. A doer of the word not a hearer or a trier, just trusted, listened and thus was a trustee, a doer as led?
Is this not for us the believer today here now or not?
H
The works, Rom.2:7 that bring us to eternal life are produced in us by he transforming grace of God, Rom.1:16. This is the WHOLE message of rom chps, 1&2. THE Gospel is the POWER of God,to believers,yes, but unsaved believers ,who then are given the gift of the new birth by the grace of God. Grace turns our "seeking faith" into "saving faith", which is "obeying faith". The WHOLE message of Rom. 1&2 is Sanctification begun, the radical brake from sin, by the Grace of God, who "effectually calls" us from sin to holiness of life, "called to be SAINTS". You guys abort the whole first two chs. of Romans with Justification.You are "playing God for a day". like, move over God, I will tell YOU, how to write YOUR Bible. This is blasphemous! PLEASE, just receive GOD'S word as He gave it.! You worship "half truths". LOve to all, Hoffco
That's a rearranging of the Greek text.
The gospel is the power of God for salvation, (1:16) which is from the wrath of God on sin (5:9).
Ro 1:16 states nothing about transforming grace of sanctification.
It treats only of salvation.
That is not the meaning in the context of its passage, or the rest of the NT,
it is a Judaizing attempt to smuggle works into justification by faith alone,
which is a complete corruption of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Works do not bring us to eternal life.
Ro 2:7 is in the context of Ro 2:2-15, of principle
4) God judges
a) according to truth (2:2), for those who hold the truth in unrighteousness (1:18-21),
b) according to deeds (2:6-11), for those who possess the Mosaic law, and
c) according to the light one has (2:12-15), for those who do not possess the Mosaic law.
You've got it completely backwards.
The works (Ro 2:7) under the law do not "bring us to eternal life" because
God's judgment according to deeds (b) under the Mosaic law condemns all to eternal death
(Gal 3:11, 13),
because there is no one who has kept the law perfectly and has not sinned against it and, therefore,
all are under its curse (Gal 3:10; Dt 27:26).
The Judaizers' gospel, of eternal life by works, stands the gospel of Jesus Christ on its head,
because no one can do the works of the law perfectly, therefore, their imperfect law keeping
brings them to condemnation, and not to eternal life.
Where is this "seeking faith" stated in Ro 1-2?
You are altering Ro 1-2.
"Sanctification begun" is not the same as "sanctification practiced."
Everything is begun when one comes to saving faith--justification, sanctification, glorification--are all
begun at that time.
But Ro 1-2 are not about "sanctification begun" nor about "glorification begun," they are
about "justification received" (guiltlessness, right standing before God) by grace through faith only,
no works of obedience involved, as Paul clearly demonstrates in chp 4 with the example of Abraham.
This is the clear NT word of God which you refuse to believe, and which you seek to alter.
Yes, Paul's letter is to those "called to be saints," but it's not about sanctification in chps 1-2,
sanctification is not until chps 6-8.
You muddle and mix it all together to produce the Judaizer's gospel, which is no gospel at all (Gal 1:7).
You'll have to take that up with Paul, for he treats of it, or its equivalent, 24 times so far in our study.
I have shown they are not half truths, but are precisely what Paul is saying.
So my best advice for you comes from what I'm sure you consider a very reliable source:
The gospel is the power of God for salvation, (1:16) which is from the wrath of God on sin (5:9).
Ro 1:16 states nothing about transforming grace of sanctification.
It treats only of salvation.
That is not the meaning in the context of its passage, or the rest of the NT,
it is a Judaizing attempt to smuggle works into justification by faith alone,
which is a complete corruption of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Works do not bring us to eternal life.
Ro 2:7 is in the context of Ro 2:2-15, of principle
4) God judges
a) according to truth (2:2), for those who hold the truth in unrighteousness (1:18-21),
b) according to deeds (2:6-11), for those who possess the Mosaic law, and
c) according to the light one has (2:12-15), for those who do not possess the Mosaic law.
You've got it completely backwards.
The works (Ro 2:7) under the law do not "bring us to eternal life" because
God's judgment according to deeds (b) under the Mosaic law condemns all to eternal death
(Gal 3:11, 13),
because there is no one who has kept the law perfectly and has not sinned against it and, therefore,
all are under its curse (Gal 3:10; Dt 27:26).
The Judaizers' gospel, of eternal life by works, stands the gospel of Jesus Christ on its head,
because no one can do the works of the law perfectly, therefore, their imperfect law keeping
brings them to condemnation, and not to eternal life.
Where is this "seeking faith" stated in Ro 1-2?
You are altering Ro 1-2.
"Sanctification begun" is not the same as "sanctification practiced."
Everything is begun when one comes to saving faith--justification, sanctification, glorification--are all
begun at that time.
But Ro 1-2 are not about "sanctification begun" nor about "glorification begun," they are
about "justification received" (guiltlessness, right standing before God) by grace through faith only,
no works of obedience involved, as Paul clearly demonstrates in chp 4 with the example of Abraham.
This is the clear NT word of God which you refuse to believe, and which you seek to alter.
Yes, Paul's letter is to those "called to be saints," but it's not about sanctification in chps 1-2,
sanctification is not until chps 6-8.
You muddle and mix it all together to produce the Judaizer's gospel, which is no gospel at all (Gal 1:7).
You'll have to take that up with Paul, for he treats of it, or its equivalent, 24 times so far in our study.
I have shown they are not half truths, but are precisely what Paul is saying.
So my best advice for you comes from what I'm sure you consider a very reliable source:
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No problem.
Romans 2:6-11
If we start from a foundation that all scripture is true we have to reconcile this passage. So this is what Romans 2:6 says. God will render judgment to each one according to that person's works. Simply because the word "works" is used doesn't mean it means the same thing whenever it's reference. We can update the word "works" to "actions" or "deeds" to better understand what's being said from one passage to the next. These are two generic term that depend upon context to understand what they're referring to.
God will judge us based on our deeds, what we do. So the question is "what actions do we do?" Well we (1) have faith in his Son and (2) we obey God's commands...these are the two actions we're required to perform.
This is why Paul covers:
a) How God will judge the world...
b) To the necessity of having faith (which is confirmed by one's actions as "faith without action is dead"; James 2:14-26)
c) To that faith giving two gifts to the believer: justification & grace
d) That Justification is "right standing" with God (i.e. Which is Christ's death paying for PAST sins; and Christ's life blood as resurrected high priest covering the believer)
[This merely starts the journey out of our Egypt...but it's not the destination.]
E) That Grace is God's power for salvation (Romans 1:16-17); salvation from God's judgment. The power that one will be saved. This is Christ's Spirit within the believer guiding them through the wilderness journey; the cloud leading us to the promise land (God's glory/Salvation/Sabbath Rest). But it's a journey we must "walk" (an action) by being obedient. We are no longer weak.
F) That God will judge the world based on obedience to his law (Romans 2:12-13).
---
I think the misunderstanding when it comes to term "works" is this idea that "all works are of the flesh", but we must read the context of the passage to see what works are being discussed at that moment. For instance, just in the 5 chapters we've covered so far there has been mentioned the following "works/actions":
- Evil deeds (selfish perverse actions based on lusts of flesh)
- Good deeds (both gentiles outside of law following their heart and followers of law obeying)
- Hypocritical judgement (being hearers and not doers of law)
- Obeying the law (example of gentiles outside of circumcision still being counted as circumcized if they follow the law)
- The Law's function (to show what unrighteousness/sin is)
- Working for a wage (as a general example against receiving a gift not owed)
- Justification (Christ's work as High Priest in heaven that's a gift to us)
...and all of these instances were different actions (or "works") being mentioned. They were either actions/works from God or from men; from gentiles or from jews; from good people or from evil people, based on the context. But out of all of these "works/actions" it's only one in the list that's described as being works/actions "of the flesh" or "of self" and that's evil deeds.
Evil deeds are works of self?
Romans 2:6-11
He will render to each one according to his works...
If we start from a foundation that all scripture is true we have to reconcile this passage. So this is what Romans 2:6 says. God will render judgment to each one according to that person's works. Simply because the word "works" is used doesn't mean it means the same thing whenever it's reference. We can update the word "works" to "actions" or "deeds" to better understand what's being said from one passage to the next. These are two generic term that depend upon context to understand what they're referring to.
God will judge us based on our deeds, what we do. So the question is "what actions do we do?" Well we (1) have faith in his Son and (2) we obey God's commands...these are the two actions we're required to perform.
This is why Paul covers:
a) How God will judge the world...
b) To the necessity of having faith (which is confirmed by one's actions as "faith without action is dead"; James 2:14-26)
c) To that faith giving two gifts to the believer: justification & grace
d) That Justification is "right standing" with God (i.e. Which is Christ's death paying for PAST sins; and Christ's life blood as resurrected high priest covering the believer)
[This merely starts the journey out of our Egypt...but it's not the destination.]
E) That Grace is God's power for salvation (Romans 1:16-17); salvation from God's judgment. The power that one will be saved. This is Christ's Spirit within the believer guiding them through the wilderness journey; the cloud leading us to the promise land (God's glory/Salvation/Sabbath Rest). But it's a journey we must "walk" (an action) by being obedient. We are no longer weak.
F) That God will judge the world based on obedience to his law (Romans 2:12-13).
---
I think the misunderstanding when it comes to term "works" is this idea that "all works are of the flesh", but we must read the context of the passage to see what works are being discussed at that moment. For instance, just in the 5 chapters we've covered so far there has been mentioned the following "works/actions":
- Evil deeds (selfish perverse actions based on lusts of flesh)
- Good deeds (both gentiles outside of law following their heart and followers of law obeying)
- Hypocritical judgement (being hearers and not doers of law)
- Obeying the law (example of gentiles outside of circumcision still being counted as circumcized if they follow the law)
- The Law's function (to show what unrighteousness/sin is)
- Working for a wage (as a general example against receiving a gift not owed)
- Justification (Christ's work as High Priest in heaven that's a gift to us)
...and all of these instances were different actions (or "works") being mentioned. They were either actions/works from God or from men; from gentiles or from jews; from good people or from evil people, based on the context. But out of all of these "works/actions" it's only one in the list that's described as being works/actions "of the flesh" or "of self" and that's evil deeds.
Evil deeds are works of self?