I thought you noticed some things PlainWord
i didn't notice before; that might be helpful when trying to explain some of these things Christians and non Christians alike.
i didn't notice before; that might be helpful when trying to explain some of these things Christians and non Christians alike.
1) Paul is talking to the "Brethren" of Thessalonica (4:13).
2) Paul clearly includes himself in the group of Believers by his use of the word, "WE" (vs. 14, 15 & 17).
3) Thus Paul totally expects to be part of those "caught up" if he is still alive when the Lord returns (vs. 17)
4) Paul is still talking to the "Brethren" of Thessalonica (5:1) so same audience
5) Paul describes the Day of the Lord as coming as a "Thief in the Night" (5:2)
6) Paul never transitions from a Rapture lesson to the Second Coming lesson.
Now check this out:
1 Thes 5:
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day (DAY OF THE LORD) should overtake you as a thief.
5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness.
Again, Paul is still referring to the Brethren in verses 4-5. Brethren are saved believers, right? Therefore if there was a Pre-Trib Rapture then the Brethren (or saved believers) would be gone and not around to witness the Day of the Lord. Paul is still including himself in this group (see verse 5). Paul is not of the night nor darkness. Therefore the Day of the Lord will not sneak up on Paul nor the Brethren of Thessalonica. Again, if Paul was discussing a Rapture back in 1 Thes 4:13-17 he can't possibly be discussing the Second Coming or Day of the Lord in 1 Thes 5:2 because if Paul was then that would mean neither he, nor the Brethren of Thessalonica would be saved on the Day of the Rapture because Paul still has them on earth for the Second Coming.
Now 2 Thes 2 becomes clear. If we start reading in 2 Thes 1:6 through the second Chapter we only see the Second Coming being discussed and the timing is given clearly as "AFTER THE MAN OF SIN, SON OF PERDITION" is revealed. Paul is still counting himself in the group, who if alive, is part of those being gathered.
1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day (Day of the Lord) will not come unless...
For any believer to be deceived, they still have to be on earth and not raptured away. Paul is still in this group, see verse 1, "Our gathering." Now Paul gives a clear and precise warning not to be deceived about the timing of the Lord's return. Why would Paul need to warn believers about the Second Coming if they were to be Raptured? He can't be talking about future converts because he already is calling them brethren and counting himself in their group. Thus they have to be saved and thus should be gone if a Pre-Trib Rapture really existed.
Paul goes on to say in verse 5:
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
So Paul already told the Thessalonians these things. Keep in mind, Paul already comforted them in verse 2 that they didn't miss the Lord's coming and that the Day of Christ aka the Day of the Lord had not come and will not come until the falling away and Man of Sin is revealed. So again, Paul already told them these things when he was with them. He gave them more detail in his first letter to them but nowhere does Paul place the Lord's return before the Tribulation, not in either letter or any letter. Paul never discusses any living believer being transformed AND taken to heaven.
The Rapture is an invention and it isn't hard to see who is behind it trying (very successfully I might add) to deceive the church.
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