What does the word 'rapture' mean to you?

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What do you consider the *****definition***** of the word 'rapture' to be?

  • the "catching up" of the saints

    Votes: 7 23.3%

  • the "catching up" of the saints; "every eye shall see it"

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • the "catching up" of the saints; "every eye shall see it"; occurs 'pre-trib'

    Votes: 1 3.3%

  • the "catching up" of the saints; "every eye shall see it"; occurs 'mid-trib'

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • the "catching up" of the saints; "every eye shall see it"; occurs 'post-trib'

    Votes: 2 6.7%

  • the "catching up" of the saints; occurs "in secret"

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • the "catching up" of the saints; occurs "in secret"; occurs 'pre-trib'

    Votes: 2 6.7%

  • the "catching up" of the saints; occurs "in secret"; occurs 'mid-trib'

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • the "catching up" of the saints; occurs "in secret"; occurs 'post-trib'

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • the "catching up" of the saints; occurs before 'second-coming';

    Votes: 2 6.7%

  • the "catching up" of the saints; occurs before 'second-coming'; "every eye shall see it"

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • the "catching up" of the saints; occurs before 'second-coming'; "every eye shall see it"; occurs 'pr

    Votes: 2 6.7%

  • the "catching up" of the saints; occurs before 'second-coming'; "every eye shall see it"; occurs 'mi

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • the "catching up" of the saints; occurs before 'second-coming'; "every eye shall see it"; occurs 'po

    Votes: 1 3.3%

  • the "catching up" of the saints; occurs before 'second-coming'; occurs "in secret"

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • the "catching up" of the saints; occurs before 'second-coming'; occurs "in secret"; occurs 'pre-trib

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • the "catching up" of the saints; occurs before 'second-coming'; occurs "in secret"; occurs 'mid-trib

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • the "catching up" of the saints; occurs before 'second-coming'; occurs "in secret"; occurs 'post-tri

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • the "catching up" of the saints; occurs at/after 'second-coming';

    Votes: 2 6.7%

  • the "catching up" of the saints; occurs at/after 'second-coming'; "every eye shall see it"

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • the "catching up" of the saints; occurs at/after 'second-coming'; "every eye shall see it"; occurs '

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • the "catching up" of the saints; occurs at/after 'second-coming'; "every eye shall see it"; occurs '

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • the "catching up" of the saints; occurs at/after 'second-coming'; "every eye shall see it"; occurs '

    Votes: 1 3.3%

  • the "catching up" of the saints; occurs at/after 'second-coming'; occurs "in secret"

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • the "catching up" of the saints; occurs at/after 'second-coming'; occurs "in secret"; occurs 'pre-tr

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • the "catching up" of the saints; occurs at/after 'second-coming'; occurs "in secret"; occurs 'mid-tr

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • the "catching up" of the saints; occurs at/after 'second-coming'; occurs "in secret"; occurs 'post-t

    Votes: 1 3.3%

  • [other - will post]

    Votes: 9 30.0%
  • Total voters
    30
RickyZ

RickyZ

Senior Member
#121
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#121
GaryA said:
While interesting to read, I do not believe that your illustration is the best representation of the true nature of reality.

I do believe that you have most definitely misunderstood the "sense and tense" of my use of the word 'process'...

:)
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I did use it in a different way, that's true. But it's still related. Love your work.
 
konroh

konroh

Senior Member
#122
Sep 17, 2013
615
21
18
#122
Apparently you missed it the first time:

Such a simple answer. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven and so shall we ever be with the Lord

He came from heaven, we'll be with Him forever. Where did He come from to get us? Heaven. Where will we be with Him? Heaven. Where are we going? Heaven

Wow, toss another softball question up there.
 
G

GaryA

Guest
#123
#123
Historicist said:
My problem is with people who dogmatically insist that "caught up" (1 Thess. 4:17) means that Jesus then goes back to heaven (taking the "caught up" with him. It does not say this. It is not there.

Evangelicals have been duped, they have been duped with the idea of a Jesus who descends, but then gives everyone a second chance by going back to heaven. This interpretation is promoted for the benefit of the dead in Phariseeism and those alive in the same, those who, because they will not be "caught up" in this event cannot "inherit the kingdom" with Jesus and are not therefore the Israel of God. This is what motivates those who promote the futurist interpretation. They need it and its built in second chance for their non-Christian "Israel." There is no second chance, for today's Pharisees or anyone else. When Jesus descends from heaven as per 1 Thess. 4:16-17 he's here to stay. Hallelujah, come quickly Lord Jesus!
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THIS is part of the problem -- as I see it.

Never in my life until now have I even heard of such a thing.

The phrase "caught up" - 'expanded' into its FULL meaning - means "caught up into the air" ( First Heaven - above the earth. ).

The phrase "caught up" - in of itself - does not include the idea of "goes back to heaven with Jesus" ( and NEVER HAS, as far as I am concerned).

The idea of "goes back to heaven with Jesus" is totally and completely separate from the idea of "caught up"...

Even the people I know that believe the notion of "goes back to heaven with Jesus" -- to them, it is not part of "caught up" - but rather, a separate occurance that happens directly thereafter.

For some reason, people seem to want to include just as many details of their belief-system as absolutely possible into the word 'rapture'. :confused:

Why can't people see 'rapture' as simply "caught up [ into the air ]"...???

Moreover, some of the worst confusion is caused by people who-are-so-sure that when someone uses the word 'rapture' - "they obviously MUST be including all-of-the-things-I-have-ever-heard-anyone-include-in-the-definition"... :rolleyes:

If people would simply not ASSUME so much about what the other person means when they use the word 'rapture' -- DUH -- that would help a lot.


Least possible confusion: 'rapture' => "caught up" => "caught up into the air"


I can disagree with someone "all day" about their notion of "goes back to heaven with Jesus" ( directly after the rapture ) - and tell them:

"It is not there." ( in the scriptures )

But I NEVER assume that anyone's definition of 'rapture' includes anything more than "caught up into the air" -- unless they actually define it to mean more than that.

:)
 
G

GaryA

Guest
#124
#124
GaryA said:
Least possible confusion: 'rapture' => "caught up" => "caught up into the air"
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EVERYTHING ELSE is - and should be - outside of the definition and use of the word 'rapture'.

"That is what I am saying..."

:)
 
G

GaryA

Guest
#125
#125
konroh said:
Apparently you missed it the first time:

Such a simple answer. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven and so shall we ever be with the Lord

He came from heaven, we'll be with Him forever. Where did He come from to get us? Heaven. Where will we be with Him? Heaven. Where are we going? Heaven

Wow, toss another softball question up there.
Click to expand...
I did not miss anything; however, I believe you did...

This may be a good answer for the title question -- but, it is not a valid answer to the suggested-direction-of-the-thread in post #103 and post #109.

( I am including post #109 in this statement bacause you have repeated your post again after post #109. )


GaryA said:
Let's discuss what words and phrases - in what verses of scripture - define the concept of 'rapture' ( specifically ) - what it is and what it is not...

:)
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I am with Historicist on this. Kindly show us where in the scriptures you get the idea that anyone leaves [ the vicinity of ] the earth and goes back to heaven when Jesus returns --- and, more importantly at the moment --- tell us why and how this idea must be included in the definition of 'rapture'...

:)
 
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G

GaryA

Guest
#126
#126
konroh said:
Where will we be with Him? Heaven. Where are we going? Heaven
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Of course --- if, by 'Heaven', you mean "here on earth with Jesus for 1000 years"... ;) ;) ;)
 
H

Historicist

Banned
#127
Dec 29, 2013
599
6
0
#127
GaryA said:
THIS is part of the problem -- as I see it.

Never in my life until now have I even heard of such a thing.

The phrase "caught up" - 'expanded' into its FULL meaning - means "caught up into the air" ( First Heaven - above the earth. ).

The phrase "caught up" - in of itself - does not include the idea of "goes back to heaven with Jesus" ( and NEVER HAS, as far as I am concerned).

The idea of "goes back to heaven with Jesus" is totally and completely separate from the idea of "caught up"...

Even the people I know that believe the notion of "goes back to heaven with Jesus" -- to them, it is not part of "caught up" - but rather, a separate occurance that happens directly thereafter.

For some reason, people seem to want to include just as many details of their belief-system as absolutely possible into the word 'rapture'. :confused:

Why can't people see 'rapture' as simply "caught up [ into the air ]"...???

Moreover, some of the worst confusion is caused by people who-are-so-sure that when someone uses the word 'rapture' - "they obviously MUST be including all-of-the-things-I-have-ever-heard-anyone-include-in-the-definition"... :rolleyes:

If people would simply not ASSUME so much about what the other person means when they use the word 'rapture' -- DUH -- that would help a lot.


Least possible confusion: 'rapture' => "caught up" => "caught up into the air"


I can disagree with someone "all day" about their notion of "goes back to heaven with Jesus" ( directly after the rapture ) - and tell them:

"It is not there." ( in the scriptures )

But I NEVER assume that anyone's definition of 'rapture' includes anything more than "caught up into the air" -- unless they actually define it to mean more than that.

:)
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You are ignoring my point, which is the fact that all teachers who describe the event in 1 Thess. 4:16-17 and 1 Cor. 15 as "the rapture" read into these texts the idea that Jesus, at this time, goes back to heaven. This is false, it is not there.

 
G

GaryA

Guest
#129
#129
Historicist said:
You are ignoring my point, which is the fact that all teachers who describe the event in 1 Thess. 4:16-17 and 1 Cor. 15 as "the rapture" read into these texts the idea that Jesus, at this time, goes back to heaven.
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I want to know how you know that it is a fact that all teachers...

( even with the idea of the 'rapture' present in these scriptures, not everyone looks at it the same way )

I understand what you are saying.

I also think you are making a huge assumption about the intent of others when 'rapture' or any of the related scriptures "pop up" -- I still don't see where dcontroversal put forth the "then we go to heaven with Jesus" idea in his earlier post - yet, you took off on him like he had actually said "then we go to heaven with Jesus" -- all he said was "even though the word itself is not found" ( he did not even mention the scriptures ). Do you see how you assumed-a-lot just from his suggestive reference to the word 'rapture'? You assumed that, just because he made mention of the concept of the 'rapture' - he must have meant [ certain specific things ] by his mere mention of it.

I am not against you. I only want to admonish you to be careful not to "jump the gun" and read too much out of other people's posts. :)


My whole point in this thread is that people "add way too much into" - and "read way too much out of" - the word 'rapture'.


Historicist said:
This is false, it is not there.
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"You are preaching to the choir, here..."

If I state that the idea of the rapture is found in 1 Thessalonians 4 -- do you assume that I mean that "caught up" includes "we go back to heaven with Jesus"...???

If you did, you would be ever-so-wrong...

:)
 
G

GaryA

Guest
#130
#130
dcontroversal said:
even though the word itself is not found....it means I am outta this hole (world) hahahha Post Tribulation/pre-wrath and every eye shall see Jesus come!
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Historicist:

To me -- this statement - as written - makes absolutely no suggestion whatsoever about "going back to heaven with Jesus" -- I can see how it fits perfectly within a Post-Trib / Pre-Wrath - Jesus-is-here-to-stay for the 1000-year reign of Christ - viewpoint.

Whatever he actually believes - his statement makes no such claim about returning to heaven with Jesus.

I believe we see a lot of things the same.

I just thought it quite strange when you seemed to "pounce" on dcontroversal's post when he barely even said 'rapture'...

:)
 
G

GaryA

Guest
#131
#131
The word 'rapture' seems-to-be-like a "hair-trigger" on a loaded gun.

Why is that?

It does not have to be.

It could simply be a word that means "caught up to meet the Lord in the air"...

:)
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#133
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#133
It means to break.

When something raptures it breaks, usually suddenly or violently.


As in, my pipes have raptured, there's water everywhere.
 
G

GaryA

Guest
#134
#134
Grandpa said:
It means to break.

When something raptures it breaks, usually suddenly or violently.


As in, my pipes have raptured, there's water everywhere.
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Aren't you thinking of 'rupture'...?
 
G

GaryA

Guest
#136
#136
GaryA said:
The word 'rapture' seems-to-be-like a "hair-trigger" on a loaded gun.

Why is that?

It does not have to be.

It could simply be a word that means "caught up to meet the Lord in the air"...

:)
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"Just sayin'..."
 
Denadii

Denadii

Banned
#137
May 13, 2017
2,359
27
0
#137
I voted 'Other' because I believe that the rapture is the catching up of the bride...Not all Christians are the bride...The bride has made herself ready. Not all Christians are doing that.
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#138
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#138
uh oh...fighting words Denadii

Funny but I kind of agree..."ducking'
 
S

samuel23

Banned
#139
Dec 2, 2016
1,652
26
0
#139
Jesus comes back for two reasons according to Paul, to gather the church, and then to pay back the ungodly and unbelievers.
 
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