10 Ireconsilable Question The "Modern Pharisees " Can Not Answer.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
N

Nick1939

Guest
#61
Why would anyone apply the word Pharisee to Christians? The most distinguishable characteristic of the Judean Pharisees was their denial that Jesus was the Christ. This does not describe any type of Christian. If anyone qualifies as "Modern Pharisees" it is those who currently deny that Jesus is the Christ, those who deny and confess not that Messiah "is come in the flesh" (2 John v. 7).
Right On , And Trinity Denies That Christ Came In The Flesh. But GOD Did, These Are The Modern Pharisees. So You Can Ask The Trinitarians ,Who Came In The Flesh ,GOD Or Christ, In Regard To 1 Tim 3:16 God Was Manifested In The Flesh ?
Be Logical.... God Bless....
 
N

Nick1939

Guest
#62
The Father had to exist for three days while Christ was dead. Either that or Christ didn't really die and our sins are not really paid for.
Very Good John, They Are Still In Their Sins, Because Christ To Them,Really Never Died, But Only His Body , Half Dead And Half
Alive, Another Words Life For Life Redemption Was Not Fully Paid .....God Bless...
 

starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
#63
OK, that is absolutely true. Christ is eternal, He has always been and always will be in existence. So, how does that prove they are three in one? The Father and Christ are separate beings.
The Godhead, which is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, is one and eternal.

God is not a closed trinity, He is a Family of multiple personages and His plan is to bring billions more into the Family. The trinity doctrine actually denies His plan to bring sons and daughters into His Family.
Straw man! I've never seen a Trinitarian deny that believers are brought into God’s family.

Personally, I would say that accepting the trinity is accepting error. The trinity doctrine states that God is three in one and is a closed godhead. Where does that leave the sons of God and daughters of God? They cannot enter the family as children of God because the godhead is a closed three in one.
Are you suggesting that sons and daughters of God become part of the Godhead, i.e. become gods? :confused:
 
N

Nick1939

Guest
#64
Yes Jesus Is LORD. But Who Made Him Lord, Check This Out. Acts 2 : 32-36 This Jesus Hath God Raised Up,Whereof We
All Are Witness V .33 Therefore Being By The Right Hand Of GOD Exalted , And Having Received FROM The FATHER The
Promise Of The Holy Spirit,He Hath Shed Forth This, Which Ye Now See And Hear. V34 For David Is Not Ascended Into The Heavens ; But He Said Himself , The LORD Said Unto MY LORD,Sit Thou On My Right Hand, V 35 Until I Make Thy Foes Thy
Footstool. V 36 Therefore , Let All The House Of Israel Know ASSUREDLY, That G O D Hath MADE That Same JESUS, Whom Ye Have CRUCIFIED , BOTH LORD And CHRIST...I Hope For Your Sake ,Do Not Misunderstand This Verses....God Bless...
 
Jan 13, 2014
960
16
0
#65
Gen 2:23 And Adam said: "This is now bone of my bones And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man."
Gen 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

You and your wife Siamese twins are ye?
Husband DNA and wife DNA merge into one flesh (children)
and you cant pull it assunder

when we think we are so smart,
we are really dumb aren't we?

Word for the day is HUBRIS

HUBRIS = means extreme pride or self-confidence. Hubris often indicates a loss of contact with reality and an overestimation of one's own competence, accomplishments or capabilities, especially when the person exhibiting it is in a position of power. The adjectival form of the noun hubris is "hubristic".

One thing people who bring up error's in the bible have a lot of
they have a lot of hubris.
 
Last edited:

starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
#66
Right On , And Trinity Denies That Christ Came In The Flesh. But GOD Did, These Are The Modern Pharisees. So You Can Ask The Trinitarians ,Who Came In The Flesh ,GOD Or Christ, In Regard To 1 Tim 3:16 God Was Manifested In The Flesh ?
Be Logical.... God Bless....


Nonsense! We don't deny that Christ came in the flesh.
 
Jan 13, 2014
960
16
0
#67
Came in the flesh means
Christ divine comes into YOUR human body...
look it up
 
Feb 17, 2010
3,620
27
0
#68
This is how God is ONE! Jesus in the flesh is God the Son of the Father who is the Holy Spirit. Because God is SPIRIT and the ONLY HOLY SPIRIT EVER, God is the ONE FATHER IN HEAVEN THAT IS SPIRIT.

Now God decided to give HIS HOLY SPIRIT A FLESHLY BODY CONCIEVED BY THE SAME GOD - SPIRIT....And Jesus was born of a virgin, the ONLY one BEGOTTEN BY FLESH THAT HAS NO HUMAN MALE IN THE CONCEPTION.... Get it people? If you do not understand I am sorry this is my best English.

That is how Jesus is BORN OF GOD. In Jesus God was displayed as a glorious HOLY MAN! Jesus SHOWED us the Holy Spirit in flesh. So we will have the perfect EXAMPLE of what God does with flesh if HE FILLS IT WITH HIS HOLY SPIRIT. The ONLY baby that was BORN OF GOD, was Jesus Christ. The ONLY baby that has no FLESH BEGINNING, or born of virgin not a WOMAN.

Jesus was and still is GOD's Son begotten by God! BUT!!!!!! God said that Jesus will have MANY brethren and He will not be ashamed to call them brethren.... And this is when God also makes us ONE IN HIM AND HIM IN US.... SAME as Jesus. You see GOd makes people PERFECTLY ONE IN CHRIST... God took 5000 men and gave then HIS HOLY SPIRIT, and ONE HEART, and ONE SOUL... WOW! 5000 PERFECT COPIES OF JESUS.... CLONES, that is how ONE WITH GOD THEY WERE... Read Acts 4 ONE HEART ONE SOUL ONE SPIRIT.... WOW!!! God can really do what Jesus asked Him in John 17... Father make them one as we are one.... PERFECTLY one! Read John 17...

And this is what is different between Jesus and a BORN OF GOD (reborn 1 John 3:9 1 John 5:18). The GLORY God gave the flesh of Jesus was LESS GLORY than Jesus has as God the Father. God the Spirit in heaven. But the glory Jesus had as FLESH MAN, is the SAME glory we get on REBIRTH... the SEED of God is the GLORY OF GOD IN FLESH.
 
J

ji

Guest
#69
It Puzzles Me To Thing How Can I Answer This 10 Questions, While The Trinitarians Can Not,Being Real That Is. So I Asked
(1) Can One Begotten Himself? While God In Hebr 1:5 Said Thou Are My Son This Day Have I Begotten Thee ?
(2) Can One Say, My Father Is Greater Than I; And Yet Be The Most High God, The Almighty, Who Only Has Imortality
1 Tim 6:15-16
(3) Can One Say, He Does Not Know The Day Or The Hour,And Yet Only The Father Knows/?Mark 13:32
(4) Can One Say, There Is NO GOD Besides Me, Isaiah 44:8, And Yet Say In John 20:17,I Am Ascending To My Father
And Your Father,And To My GOD AND YOUR GOD?
(5) Can One Say, I And The Father Are One John 10:30,And Yet Say,Not My Will ,But Your Will Be Done, Mat 26:39-42.
(6) Can One Sit On His Own Right Hand? Mat 22:42-46 Sit On MY RIGHT HAND, Until I Make Thy Enemies Thy Footstool.
(7) Can One Say,Why Call Me Good,; There Is None Good,But The Father, And Yet He Is The Father/? BE REAL...
(8) Can One Subject All Things Under His Feet;And Yet He Being Exempt ? 1 Cor 15:27.
(9) Can One Receive A Kingdom To Reign , And At The End Deliver That Kingdom To Himself,And Be Subject To Himself?
11 Cor 15:28.
(10) NO WONDER Prov 30:4 The Question Is Asked, Who Has Ascended Into Heaven Or Descended ? Who Has Gather
The Wind In His Fists ? Who Has Bound The Waters In A garment? Who Has Establish All The Ends Of The Earth?
WHAT IS HIS NAME AND WHAT IS HIS SONS NAME If You Know?...
This 10 Ireconsilable Questions That The Modern Pharisees Can NOT ANSWER,Prevent Me From Becoming
A Trinitarian, .....And Be Realistic ....... God Bless......
That is too much word play.What are you trying to prove?I don't know if you are talking in favor of Christians or not.Its confusing me.
Especially the last question number 10.
I will be glad to describe to people what i meat in every comment posted in the past on CC.It would be helpful if you can give more insight on topic here.If you are saying "modern pharisees" are people who do not know Holy Scripture enough or what it really means(Grace of God at work),then i have nothing more to say.
Yes,You are right.That's why many sheep get lost.Jeremiah 23 KJV.
Though i might have misunderstood the topic altogether.
 
Dec 29, 2013
599
6
0
#70
This is how God is ONE! Jesus in the flesh is God the Son of the Father who is the Holy Spirit. Because God is SPIRIT and the ONLY HOLY SPIRIT EVER, God is the ONE FATHER IN HEAVEN THAT IS SPIRIT.

Now God decided to give HIS HOLY SPIRIT A FLESHLY BODY CONCIEVED BY THE SAME GOD - SPIRIT....And Jesus was born of a virgin, the ONLY one BEGOTTEN BY FLESH THAT HAS NO HUMAN MALE IN THE CONCEPTION.... Get it people? If you do not understand I am sorry this is my best English.

That is how Jesus is BORN OF GOD. In Jesus God was displayed as a glorious HOLY MAN! Jesus SHOWED us the Holy Spirit in flesh. So we will have the perfect EXAMPLE of what God does with flesh if HE FILLS IT WITH HIS HOLY SPIRIT. The ONLY baby that was BORN OF GOD, was Jesus Christ. The ONLY baby that has no FLESH BEGINNING, or born of virgin not a WOMAN.

Jesus was and still is GOD's Son begotten by God! BUT!!!!!! God said that Jesus will have MANY brethren and He will not be ashamed to call them brethren.... And this is when God also makes us ONE IN HIM AND HIM IN US.... SAME as Jesus. You see GOd makes people PERFECTLY ONE IN CHRIST... God took 5000 men and gave then HIS HOLY SPIRIT, and ONE HEART, and ONE SOUL... WOW! 5000 PERFECT COPIES OF JESUS.... CLONES, that is how ONE WITH GOD THEY WERE... Read Acts 4 ONE HEART ONE SOUL ONE SPIRIT.... WOW!!! God can really do what Jesus asked Him in John 17... Father make them one as we are one.... PERFECTLY one! Read John 17...

And this is what is different between Jesus and a BORN OF GOD (reborn 1 John 3:9 1 John 5:18). The GLORY God gave the flesh of Jesus was LESS GLORY than Jesus has as God the Father. God the Spirit in heaven. But the glory Jesus had as FLESH MAN, is the SAME glory we get on REBIRTH... the SEED of God is the GLORY OF GOD IN FLESH.
Good explanation Cobus, but I am curious to know; where do we find today's descendants of those 5000 in Acts 4, those 5000 Jews who accepted Jesus and the New Covenant?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,464
212
63
#71
Jesus only purpose to deliver us to Father, to receive new life in Father through the resurrected Christ after we see we are forgiven 100% through Christ's finished work of the cross where he fulfilled the law and prophets of the first Testament, and took on himself our deserved death in and of the first covenant, the Law given to show us we are in need of a savior, not ever being able to be perfect in and of ourselves ever
So through Christ's death we are forgiven and made as perfect delivered to father to get new life here and now in the Spirit of God here now today
If you are in total agreement with another, does that make you one?
John 17:21 that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
I believe and God shows me, by Son he has made me one with him, yet we are not just one, yet one
Sorry you are not seeing this fact
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,464
212
63
#72
Not to mention the fact that the II Corinthians calls for God's people to be open to learning and instruction as there is always a deeper truth to uncover. The above 10 sets of scripture are either absolute truth or not worth the paper they were written on...I will go with true and they mean what they say and say what they mean!
And in all truth it is God that does the revealing, where it all fits, no schisms in God and Christ, the two are one and the Holy Spirit sent to us to teach us error from truth is our coupler to the truth found through, the way, the truth and the new life given to us in the power of God via the Holy Spirit of God (truth)
Thanks Brother
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,464
212
63
#73
I blindly accepted the trinity as prescribed by some 30 something year old, (can't recall his name) in around 300 of the common "error" (CE) in the early church, as I understand how it came about. Yet, none of the followers of Messiah said such. The Father has granted all authority to the Son, and no man enters the Kingdom by any other name than Messiah, etc.

The Father and Son are of one accord, yet still the Father is the Father and the Son is the Son.

I guess we try to wrap our minds around the things we can't really express with words, and maybe no ill intent was behind the invention, however, I can't help notice that the Trinity concept has perhaps allowed some to distance themselves from Torah. If you can say they are (Father, Son, Spirit) are 3 persons in one godhead, then it's not a far leap to say God changed His mind and through Messiah proved Torah was tossed out.

Father and Son agree, and have always and will forevermore.
Is ice, water and steam all three forms of water still water yet in different forms?
 
C

chubbena

Guest
#74
10 Ireconsilable Question The "Modern Pharisees " Can Not Answer.


It Puzzles Me To Thing How Can I Answer This 10 Questions, While The Trinitarians Can Not,Being Real That Is. So I Asked
(1) Can One Begotten Himself? While God In Hebr 1:5 Said Thou Are My Son This Day Have I Begotten Thee ?
Did Jeusus become created when he was begotten? Jesus said he saw satan fall like lighting and that was long before the "Begetting". The Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary (Luke 1:26-38) and that is the moment Jesus was begotten, not created.
Isn't the doctrine of Christ's eternal sonship from Trinitarian theology?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,464
212
63
#75
That Is Right I Don't Have A Clue, To The Evidence To Support The Doctrine Of The Trinity Logical Speaking; Can You Help
Without Traditional Teaching , Because Someone Told You So; If No One Has NOT Told About Trinity, By Yourself You Would
Never New About,Because You Never Read It In The Bible. Is Not That True? If You Readed Tell Me Where,So I Can Read It
Also; Please Speak The Truth In LOVE, Ephe 4:15..... God Bless...
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit as I see it this way, I take a cherry pie and cut three distinct cuts in it and yet the filling flows right back together. Still one pie
An egg has three parts to be one egg, missing one part it is not an egg as whole anymore.
Us the body, spirit and soul are all three needed to be whole and real. This is what was lacking in the flesh of mankind. A living soul of flesh and dead to Spirit Christ came to make us whole and give us life in the Spirit. He did this via the cross at the resurrection from God the Father and sent us the Holy Spirit of truth to teach us truth to be free from worry and stress by trusting Father as he did 100% all the time
 

starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
#77
Is ice, water and steam all three forms of water still water yet in different forms?
I'd stay away from analogies when discussing the truine God. It's a faulty approach, and typically leads to modalism.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#78
Straw man! I've never seen a Trinitarian deny that believers are brought into God’s family.
Well now we have a problem don't we? A trinity is composed of three, not multiple billions. So with only three and the slots already filled, there is no room for any more to enter. You apparently don't understand what the doctrine really teaches.

Are you suggesting that sons and daughters of God become part of the Godhead, i.e. become gods? :confused:
Nope, I am not suggesting anything, I am listening to scripture...

Psa 82:6 I said, "You are gods, And all of you are children of the Most High.

Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, 'I SAID, "YOU ARE GODS" '?
Joh 10:35 If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),

What do you plan to become the outside pet? Are your children part of your family? Are they humans like you?

What do you suppose it means when God says this...

Gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

He was just kidding?
 
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
0
#79
Good explanation Cobus, but I am curious to know; where do we find today's descendants of those 5000 in Acts 4, those 5000 Jews who accepted Jesus and the New Covenant?
Good question. I think understanding and following God's relationship and use of the Jews for us is very important to follow. In the year 72, Rome destroyed the temple, so important to the Jews, even the Christian Jews. The new Christians often met in homes and informal places, they were family together, but they also met together in the synagogue. The Jews who denied Christ, the gentile Christians, and the Christian Jews all together.

Then came a man called Bar Kochba who led a revolt against Rome in 134. The Jews who denied Christ said this man was the Christ, yet they wanted the Christian Jews to join their revolt. They couldn't deny Christ by joining. Rome not only destroyed what was left of the temple but they killed every Jew they found. There were hard feelings between Jews, for any that escaped the massacre.

Until this time, the Jews were in charge of the Christian church, as was told of in Acts when James the brother of Christ was head of the Christian Council. Now, it was gentiles who took over leadership, and from the beginning of that leadership there was more and more tension built between Jews and gentiles.
 
May 15, 2013
4,307
27
0
#80
?????

This ignores scripture and fact.
I doesn't see how...

All I do know is that Moses, Elijah, David and Solomon has seen His form.

Psalm 51:11
Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me.

Song of Songs 7:2
Your navel is a rounded goblet that never lacks blended wine. Your waist is a mound of wheat encircled by lilies.(Solomon wasn't writing to a woman)

Exodus 33:22
When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by.

1 Kings 19:12
After the earthquake came a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper.

Matthew 6:6
But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

2 Corinthians 4:18
So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.