MODERN CHRISTIANS WORSHIPPING THEIR HEATHEN GODS--by tossing out the 7th Day Sabbath

[Hizikyah]

Originally Posted by Stephen63

You falsely use Scripture to "prove" your point.

1. No work done at all (Ex. 20: 10; Lev. 23: 3; Jer. 17:21-22). No watering the lawn, no working in the yard, no hobbies, no surfing, no fixing flat tires, etc. By law if a person did not stop all types of activity in honor of the Sabbath, he was breaking the law. In Numbers 15:32-36 a man was caught collecting sticks on the Sabbath, and he was stoned to death.

1. Yes this is true, and if someone cant cease from their own works on Yahweh's holy day, no they are not guarding the Sabbath. If the act is not for self gain but a righteous act, it is permissible. (Isa 58:13-14 & Matt 12:12)

2 No kindling of a fire (Ex. 35:3). No fellowship cookouts or barbecues. You can't go into a restaurant and get a hamburger that's been flame broiled, you can't cook eggs, or pancakes in the morning because you'd be kindling a fire for cooking. To drive a car would be to "kindle a fire" In the combustion chamber of your engine.

2. No cooking is allowed on Sabbath, this would take time away from focusing on Yahweh. Also "kindling a fire" thousands of years ago was a long process.

3. No traveling at all (Ex. 16:29). Later the Jews added to this law, allowing only a half mile of travel on the Sabbath which we see observed in the NT. But the pure law says "stay at home." Actually, If you kept this part of the law, you could not travel to your church gathering unless it was less than one-quarter mile away from home. If you had an emergency you could not drive to the hospital.

3 First the 1/2 mile thing is pharisee law, you cant claim pharisee and and be a follower of Messiah, as He spoke greatly against it. And if you look at this verse in context you will see this is direct command to those in the desert that had manna rain from heaven to them, this was a test to see if they would follow the Covenant agreement.
Exodus 16:4, "Then the LORD said to Moses, “Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a day’s portion every day, that I may test them, whether or not they will walk in My instruction."
This was not a part of Yahweh's Law, proof of this is seen in the Messiah, for He traveled, and was the spotless Sacrifice. No this was a direct test to those in the desert.

4. No trading (Amos 8:5). If you happened to need gas to get to church service, you could not "trade" money for gasoline. You would not be allowed to buy a cassette tape of that morning's message or a book at the store. There is to be No exchanging of money for goods. If you worked with stocks and you needed to sell you couldn’t.

4. Yes no buying and selling. How hard is it to get what you want or need the day before or after? Buying gas, while not evil, is not focusing in Yahweh and the things of Yahweh 100%.

5. No marketing (Neh. 10:31; 13:15,19). Make sure you do no shopping whatsoever. You can't buy any ice cream for dessert after dinner or anything else. If you run out of food or drink at home you can’t go out to purchase any, you can’t even by a stick of gum.

5. See #4. Also, you want to portray the Sabbath as such a burden dont you? That is terrible, not only is that personally dangerous ground, but you are casting dount in front of others in you witness against what Yahweh ahs made holy, I am personally bothered by this.

Isayah 58:13-14, "If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of Yahweh honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in aidle conversation: Then you will find your joy in Yahweh; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father--for the mouth of Yahweh has spoken it."

6. A holy assembly with double the daily offering along with the other offerings. In other words, you are to give twice as much on the Sabbath (Num. 28:9).Do we practiced this today In compliance with Old Testament law. Do Sabbatarian's really practice the law? I have yet to see people go to Shabbat and give twice as much each week.

Your misuse of Scripture is either flagrant or ignorant. I will quote the Scripture first then talk about it:

Numbers 28:9-10, "And on the Sabbath Day, make an offering of two lambs of the first year without blemish, together with its drink offering, and two-tenths of an ephah; about 4 quarts, of fine flour, mixed with oil--one ephah for each lamb. This is the burnt offering for every Sabbath Day, in addition to the regular burnt offering; (the Morning and Evening Tamid), and its drink offering."

This is a double tamid offering, an offering ONLY done by the high priest. Even pre-Messiah this was never for each indivigual Israylite, but only for the high priest.

This is clear by context:

Numbers 28:22-23, "So Mosheh did as Yahweh commanded him: He took Yahshua, and set him before Eleazar the High Priest, and before all the congregation. And he laid his hands on him, and inaugurated him, just as Yahweh had commanded by the hand of Mosheh."

If you are getting these supposed "anti-Sabbath" verse from a website they are misleading you.

7. New showbread In the holy place (Lev. 24:8). Of course this cannot be done today since there is no temple, so this part of the Sabbath cannot be followed by the church. The fact Is the Sabbath was not made for the gentiles, but for the Jews and their generations (Ex. 31:12-17). It's a law given between God and the Jews.

7. Again....a job for the High Priest, which Yahshua the Messiah and now High Priest IS CARRYING OUT. This like like telling someone they can not be saved unless they sacrifice themselves, ITS NOT OUR JOB TO DO THIS, and applying these things to the people is not only dishonest, but literally BLASPHEMOUS, as these are the job of the Messiah and none can stand in His place.

8.The last part of the requirements for keeping the Sabbath day law Is the penalty for breaking It. DEATH

Yes it is, just as death is the penalty for murderers, unrepentant murders will receive death upon the return of Messiah, from the one fit for making judgement, He will make judgement when He returns. The writers of Scripture understood this perfectly when they wrote things like this:

Hebrews 4:1-11, "Therefore, since a promise of entering His rest remains, let us fear so that none of you should come short of it. For this message was preached to us, as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not benefit them, because they did not share in the faith of those who obeyed-- However, we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: So I vowed in My wrath, They will not enter into My rest, although the works were finished from the foundation of the world, For He spoke in a certain place of the Seventh Day, in this way: And Yahweh rested the Seventh Day from all His works. And in this place again: If they will enter into My rest. Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, Again, He designates a certain day, saying in David: ''Today,'' after so long a time, as it has been said: Today, if you will hear His voice, do not harden your hearts. If Yahshua (ben Nun) had given them rest he would not have spoken afterward of another day. Therefore, there remains the keeping of the Sabbath (word G#4520) to the people of Yahweh, For he who has entered into His rest (word G#2663) has also ceased from his own works, as Yahweh did from His. Therefore, let us be zealous to enter into that rest (word G#2663), so that no one may fall after the same example of unbelief."

If one understands that the 7th day Sabbath is a shadow of the 1000yr regin to come, then this passage begins to make real sense.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

let he who has no sin cast the first stone!

I can't believe we are still having this discussion!!

 

[Animus]

let he who has no sin cast the first stone!

I can't believe we are still having this discussion!!

Let he who has no stone commit the first sin!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Let he who has no stone commit the first sin!

Well since we ALL have stones. and we ALL have sinned already, Not sure how your comment has any bearing. Unless your just joking..

 

[john832]

Here is your real Sabbath. Are you really keeping it?

1. No work done at all (Ex. 20: 10; Lev. 23: 3; Jer. 17:21-22). No watering the lawn, no working in the yard, no hobbies, no surfing, no fixing flat tires, etc. By law if a person did not stop all types of activity in honor of the Sabbath, he was breaking the law. In Numbers 15:32-36 a man was caught collecting sticks on the Sabbath, and he was stoned to death.
2 No kindling of a fire (Ex. 35:3). No fellowship cookouts or barbecues. You can't go into a restaurant and get a hamburger that's been flame broiled, you can't cook eggs, or pancakes in the morning because you'd be kindling a fire for cooking. To drive a car would be to "kindle a fire" In the combustion chamber of your engine.
3. No traveling at all (Ex. 16:29). Later the Jews added to this law, allowing only a half mile of travel on the Sabbath which we see observed in the NT. But the pure law says "stay at home." Actually, If you kept this part of the law, you could not travel to your church gathering unless it was less than one-quarter mile away from home. If you had an emergency you could not drive to the hospital.
4. No trading (Amos 8:5). If you happened to need gas to get to church service, you could not "trade" money for gasoline. You would not be allowed to buy a cassette tape of that morning's message or a book at the store. There is to be No exchanging of money for goods. If you worked with stocks and you needed to sell you couldn’t.
5. No marketing (Neh. 10:31; 13:15,19). Make sure you do no shopping whatsoever. You can't buy any ice cream for dessert after dinner or anything else. If you run out of food or drink at home you can’t go out to purchase any, you can’t even by a stick of gum.
6. A holy assembly with double the daily offering along with the other offerings. In other words, you are to give twice as much on the Sabbath (Num. 28:9).Do we practiced this today In compliance with Old Testament law. Do Sabbatarian's really practice the law? I have yet to see people go to Shabbat and give twice as much each week.
7. New showbread In the holy place (Lev. 24:8). Of course this cannot be done today since there is no temple, so this part of the Sabbath cannot be followed by the church. The fact Is the Sabbath was not made for the gentiles, but for the Jews and their generations (Ex. 31:12-17). It's a law given between God and the Jews.
8.The last part of the requirements for keeping the Sabbath day law Is the penalty for breaking It. DEATH


So, which of you are keeping the Shabbat of the 10 commandments?

I ALWAYS enjoy this type of post. Here are the Pharisaical rules of the Sabbath that came from men that "bind heavy burdens" on people quoted by opponents of the Sabbath and Sabbath keepers are called legalists. We are not the ones who lay down these rules, the ones who supposedly "free from the Law" are the ones who preach this as how the Sabbath must be kept. It would be funny if it weren't so sad.

 

[BradC]

As a believer we are to have the mind of Christ and for this to happen in our walk with God through the Spirit, we are to be built up in the word and doctrine daily. Being occupied with Christ is an every thought process that involves every minute of everyday and not on a given Sabbath day. As we do this through an every thought process by grace we do so with an attitude and disposition of faith-rest that we have in Christ which they did not have under Moses. In heaven there is no Sabbath or day of rest and we have been seated above with Christ in heavenly places. We are to set our affections (mind) on things above and not on the things of the earth. We live in Christ who is eternal uncreated life and keeping a Sabbath is not part of that eternal life we have been given as a gift. The OT saints under the law of Moses did not have this doctrine or this position in Christ. This came only after the cross and it was given to the church who believed and trusted in Christ. Moses did not teach this to the people of Israel that they were seated together with Christ at the right hand of God the Father because he did not have that revelation or doctrine from God. This revelation was given to the apostle Paul and not the other apostles. The other apostles learned this from Paul and they had a hard and difficult time of understanding it just like some on this site.

 

[Hizikyah]

As a believer we are to have the mind of Christ and for this to happen in our walk with God through the Spirit, we are to be built up in the word and doctrine daily. Being occupied with Christ is an every thought process that involves every minute of everyday and not on a given Sabbath day. As we do this through an every thought process by grace we do so with an attitude and disposition of faith-rest that we have in Christ which they did not have under Moses. In heaven there is no Sabbath or day of rest and we have been seated above with Christ in heavenly places. We are to set our affections (mind) on things above and not on the things of the earth. We live in Christ who is eternal uncreated life and keeping a Sabbath is not part of that eternal life we have been given as a gift. The OT saints under the law of Moses did not have this doctrine or this position in Christ. This came only after the cross and it was given to the church who believed and trusted in Christ. Moses did not teach this to the people of Israel that they were seated together with Christ at the right hand of God the Father because he did not have that revelation or doctrine from God. This revelation was given to the apostle Paul and not the other apostles. The other apostles learned this from Paul and they had a hard and difficult time of understanding it just like some on this site.

Sabbath will be kept in the kingdom:

Isayah 66:22-23, " For as the new heavens and the new earth which I will make will remain before Me, says Yahweh: so will your seed and your name remain. And it will come to pass that from one New Moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, all flesh will come to worship before Me, says Yahweh."

 

[Fishbait]

It is often claimed that “God instituted the Sabbath in Eden” because of the connection between the Sabbath and creation in Exodus 20:11. Although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future Sabbath law, there is no biblical record of the Sabbath before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that Sabbath-keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.

The Word of God makes it quite clear that Sabbath observance was a special sign between God and Israel: “The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested” (Exodus 31:16–17).

The Sabbath was given to Israel, not the church. The Sabbath is still Saturday, not Sunday, and has never been changed. But the Sabbath is part of the Old Testament Law, and Christians are free from the bondage of the Law (Galatians 4:1-26; Romans 6:14). Sabbath keeping is not required of the Christian—be it Saturday or Sunday. The first day of the week, Sunday, the Lord's Day (Revelation 1:10) celebrates the New Creation, with Christ as our resurrected Head. We are not obligated to follow the Mosaic Sabbath—resting, but are now free to follow the risen Christ—serving. The Apostle Paul said that each individual Christian should decide whether to observe a Sabbath rest, “One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind” (Romans 14:5). We are to worship God every day, not just on Saturday or Sunday.

 

[GregoryC]

Quite clear there is much passion for law keepers (sabbath keepers).

In your zeal to make sure all laws are obeyed remember this sobering statement.

You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen from grace. Gal. 5:4

This is the danger we fall into when we become overzealous unbalanced and ridgid.

If anyone wishes to keep the sabbath day out of love for God thats awesome!

But if in your heart you belive it is a necessity that you must keep it and fear you will be punished or lose you Salvation if you do not then you are operating outside of grace. If you are telling others the same you are spreading lies.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written Cursed is everyone that continues not in all things which are written in the law to do them.

The greatest danger is not too much grace, but too much emphasis on law leading to legalism and bondage.

Galattians 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

 

[Hizikyah]

It is often claimed that “God instituted the Sabbath in Eden” because of the connection between the Sabbath and creation in Exodus 20:11. Although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future Sabbath law, there is no biblical record of the Sabbath before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that Sabbath-keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.

The Word of God makes it quite clear that Sabbath observance was a special sign between God and Israel: “The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested” (Exodus 31:16–17).

The Sabbath was given to Israel, not the church. The Sabbath is still Saturday, not Sunday, and has never been changed. But the Sabbath is part of the Old Testament Law, and Christians are free from the bondage of the Law (Galatians 4:1-26; Romans 6:14). Sabbath keeping is not required of the Christian—be it Saturday or Sunday. The first day of the week, Sunday, the Lord's Day (Revelation 1:10) celebrates the New Creation, with Christ as our resurrected Head. We are not obligated to follow the Mosaic Sabbath—resting, but are now free to follow the risen Christ—serving. The Apostle Paul said that each individual Christian should decide whether to observe a Sabbath rest, “One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind” (Romans 14:5). We are to worship God every day, not just on Saturday or Sunday.

If I Scriptural disprove this will you continue in it?


Isayah 56:1-7, "This is what Yahweh says: Keep the judgments, and do justly; for My salvation is near, soon, to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them; and keeps his hand from doing any evil. Do not let the son of the Gentile, who has joined himself to Yahweh, speak, saying; Yahweh has utterly separated me from His people. Nor let the eunuch say; Behold, I am a dry tree. For this is what Yahweh says: To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, and choose those things which eplease Me, and hold fast to My covenant: I will give to them, in My House, even within My walls, a place and a Name equal to that of sons and of daughters; I will give them the Name of The Everlasting: YAHWEH; which will not be cut off. Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to Yahweh, to serve Him, and to love the Name of Yahweh, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer..."

Numbers 15:15-16, "One ordinance shall be for you of the congregation, and for the stranger who sojourns with you, as an ordinance forever throughout your generations. As you are, so shall the stranger be in front of Yahweh. One Law and one manner shall be for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you."

Exodus 12:48-49, "And when a stranger lives among you and wants to sacrifice the Passover to Yahweh, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near, and sacrifice it; and he shall be as a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it. One Law shall be for the nativeborn and for the stranger who dwells among you."

Where is your verse supporting that 7th day Sabbath is only for a certain race of people?

Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though Yahweh's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are Yahweh's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."

Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is Yahweh our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."

Galations 3:28,29, "Is there not the Yahdai as well as the Greek; Gentile? Is there not the slave as well as the freeman? Is there not the male and the female? For all of you must be in unity in Yahshua Messiah. And if you are in Messiah, then you are a seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise."

Psalam 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

 

[Stephen63]

Galatians 5:1-12 (KJV) [SUP]1 [/SUP]Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? [SUP]8 [/SUP]This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. [SUP]9 [/SUP]A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. [SUP]10 [/SUP]I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased. [SUP]12 [/SUP]I would they were even cut off which trouble you.

This scripture covers circumcision, which was before the law.... Wasn't the point of this scripture concerning Any OT law? Wouldn't Christ profit us nothing by still keeping any of the law? Doesn't keeping the sabbath make us a debtor to the whole law? Havent we found out that sabbath keeping avails nothing, neither not keeping it avail anything?

 

[GregoryC]

To take it even further, any person who approaches the cross on the grounds of his or her merit or work of any kind whatsoever is automatically disqualified.

1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.

All those who fancy themselves as good need not apply.

 

[Hizikyah]

Everyone who follows Yahweh's Law does not claim justification by it.

That is the default stance of those who are at enmity with Yahweh, as an excuse to not have to follow it.

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

 

[Hizikyah]

1 Yahchanan (John) 2:4, " He who says: I know Him, but does not keep His Law, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

1785. entolé
entolé: an injunction, order, command
Original Word: ἐντολή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: entolé
Phonetic Spelling: (en-tol-ay')
Short Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

New Living Translation
If someone claims, "I know God," but doesn't obey God's commandments, that person is a liar and is not living in the truth.

English Standard Version
Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,

New American Standard Bible
The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

King James Bible
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 

[Plowman]

The word "Saturday" is a pagan word, named after the roman god Saturn.

In over a hundred languages the 7th day is called Sabbath.

The 7 day cycle has remained the same since Messiah was in the flesh, and if He did not change it I dont feel the need to.

There was a calendar chage in which 10 days were removed from the calendar, but the 7 day cycle stayed the same.

It went from Thursday the 4th to Friday the 15th.

7 day cycle remains.

(the modern calendar is not the Creators calendar but the calendar of babylon)

So what you are really saying is that what you call the Sabbath is the correct day because it is your tradition?

 

[UriahSmith1844]

To the person here who gave the big long list of things you should or should not do on the Sabbath, the fact that he or she made this long list proves the whole point of the Opening Post.

Those who don't keep the Sabbath view God as a Tyrant and a Legalist. Just like the Pharisees.

And by the way, I keep the Sabbath and I do not trading, no traveling unless is necessary to do the work of God (just as Jesus did), no cooking, or any of those things. I do not do it legalistically like the Pharisees. I count the Sabbath as a DELIGHT. I take the day off and spend it contemplating God and helping others if they need help. That's not so difficult to do, you know?

The funny thing about it is that people who talk about all these things we are NOT supposed to do on |Sabbath, always seem to find time on SUNDAY to do things like watch football, or whatever. Such hypocrisy!

 

[UriahSmith1844]

And one last thing as well.

Seventh Day Adventists COMPLETELY rely upon the atoning blood of Christ for salvation. I know that many of you cannot fathom such a thing but you CAN and SHOULD actually rely upon Christ's merits alone AND keep the Commandments of God at the same time!

Just because you keep the Commandments, this doesn't mean you know nothing of the grace of God. Its the LAW that makes you aware of just how much you NEED God's grace.

You really do need to pay some attention to what John Wesley explained here about the Law and Grace:

"Wesley declared the perfect harmony of the law and the gospel. "There is, therefore, the closest connection that can be conceived, between the law and the gospel. On the one hand, the law continually makes way for, and points us to, the gospel; on the other, the gospel continually leads us to a more exact fulfilling of the law. The law, for instance, requires us to love God, to love our neighbor, to be meek, humble, or holy. We feel that we are not sufficient for these things; yea, that 'with man this is impossible;' but we see a promise of God to give us that love, and to make us humble, meek, and holy: we lay hold of this gospel, of these glad tidings; it is done unto us according to our faith; and 'the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us,' through faith which is in Christ Jesus. . . . "In the highest rank of the enemies of the gospel of Christ," said Wesley, "are they who openly and explicitly 'judge the law' itself, and 'speak evil of the law;' who teach men to break (to dissolve, to loose, to untie the obligation of) not one only, whether of the least or of the greatest, but all the commandments at a stroke. . . . The most surprising of all the circumstances that attend this strong delusion, is that they who are given up to it, really believe that they honor Christ by overthrowing His law, and that they are magnifying His office while they are destroying His doctrine! Yea, they honor Him just as Judas did when he said, 'Hail, Master, and kissed Him.' And He may as justly say to every one of them, 'Betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?' It is no other than betraying Him with a kiss, to talk of His blood, and take away His crown; to set light by any part of His law, under pretense of advancing His gospel. Nor indeed can anyone escape this charge, who preaches faith in any such a manner as either directly or indirectly tends to set aside any branch of obedience: who preaches Christ so as to disannul, or weaken in any wise, the least of the commandments of God."--Ibid. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]264[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] To those who urged that "the preaching of the gospel answers all the ends of the law," Wesley replied: "This we utterly deny. It does not answer the very first end of the law, namely, the convincing men of sin, the awakening those who are still asleep on the brink of hell." The apostle Paul declares that "by the law is the knowledge of sin;" "and not until man is convicted of sin, will he truly feel his need of the atoning blood of Christ. . . . 'They that be whole,' as our Lord Himself observes, 'need not a physician, but they that are sick.' It is absurd, therefore, to offer a physician to them that are whole, or that at least imagine themselves so to be. You are first to convince them that they are sick; otherwise they will not thank you for your labor. It is equally absurd to offer Christ to them whose heart is whole, having never yet been broken."--Ibid., sermon 35. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Thus while preaching the gospel of the grace of God, Wesley, like his Master, sought to "magnify the law, and make it honorable." -Great Controversy pg 263, 264

It just really gets me how ignorant people are when it comes to this subject of Law and Grace.

[/FONT]The Merits of Christ’s Name—We have access to God through the merits of the name of Christ, and God invites us to bring to Him our trials and temptations; for He understands them all. He would not have us pour out our woes to human ears. Through the blood of Christ we may come to the throne of grace, and find grace to help in time of need. We may come with assurance, saying, “My acceptance is in the Beloved.” “For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.” “In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.” As an earthly parent encourages his child to come to him at all times, so the Lord encourages us to lay before Him our wants and perplexities, our gratitude and love. Every promise is sure. Jesus is our Surety and Mediator, and has placed at our command every resource, that we may have a perfect character. The blood of Christ in ever-abiding efficacy is our only hope; for through His merits alone we have pardon and peace. When the efficiency of the blood of Christ becomes a reality to the soul through faith in Christ, the believer will let his light shine forth in good works, in bringing forth fruits unto righteousness (Ellen White, The Youth’s Instructor, September 22, 1892).


it is so simple. You rest on the merits of Christ alone, and you keep God's Commandments because you LOVE HIM.

...even a child can understand

 

[BradC]

Under the law of Moses, if an Israelite defiled the Sabbath he was put to death and if he did any work on that day his soul was cut off from among the people according to (Ex 31:14). What happens to the believer in Christ, whether he be a Jew or Gentile, if he defiles or does work on the Sabbath? If the believer is under grace and required to keep the 10 commandments, which includes the Sabbath, and he violates any of the commandments is he under the law or is he under grace? If under the law should he be punished according to the law and if under grace should be given grace if he repents? If he commits murder under the same law of those same 10 commandments is he to be put to death or is he under grace and given space to repent and not condemned for breaking the law? Are the Jews under the law of Moses for their own people or are they subject to the law of the land? Under the law both the man and woman who commit adultery breaking the law were also put to death, is it the same in Israel today or are they under a different law? If not, then why are they not put to death if they adhere to the Torah, and why is it not the same for those Jews who claim to be of Israel or of Abraham who live outside of the nation and people of Israel? If the law is holy and just, then should not the breaking of that law have a just punishment prescribed by the law?

 

[UriahSmith1844]

Under the law of Moses, if an Israelite defiled the Sabbath he was put to death and if he did any work on that day his soul was cut off from among the people according to (Ex 31:14). What happens to the believer in Christ, whether he be a Jew or Gentile, if he defiles or does work on the Sabbath? If the believer is under grace and required to keep the 10 commandments, which includes the Sabbath, and he violates any of the commandments is he under the law or is he under grace? If under the law should he be punished according to the law and if under grace should be given grace if he repents? If he commits murder under the same law of those same 10 commandments is he to be put to death or is he under grace and given space to repent and not condemned for breaking the law? Are the Jews under the law of Moses for their own people or are they subject to the law of the land? Under the law both the man and woman who commit adultery breaking the law were also put to death, is it the same in Israel today or are they under a different law? If not, then why are they not put to death if they adhere to the Torah, and why is it not the same for those Jews who claim to be of Israel or of Abraham who live outside of the nation and people of Israel? If the law is holy and just, then should not the breaking of that law have a just punishment prescribed by the law?

You reasoning makes no sense to me. So go ahead and commit adultery? go ahead and murder? go ahead and bear false witness against your neighbour? go ahead and bow to graven images?

What you do not seem to understand is that just because God is not seriously punishing those who are violating His Law RIGHT NOW, there will come a day, don't worry.

Its just that we are no longer under a THEOCRACY now. That means that if you violate God's Law, there is no one to come around and stone you.

The punishment WILL COME, and it will come from God Himself in the form of the last plagues and hellfire...

Isaiah 24:5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

 

[john832]

To take it even further, any person who approaches the cross on the grounds of his or her merit or work of any kind whatsoever is automatically disqualified.

1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.

All those who fancy themselves as good need not apply.

So, one should just sin as much as he possibly can and Christ is well pleased? What you say does not square with scripture...

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Now how does that square with "just come as you are"?