MODERN CHRISTIANS WORSHIPPING THEIR HEATHEN GODS--by tossing out the 7th Day Sabbath

[eternally-gratefull]

To take it even further, any person who approaches the cross on the grounds of his or her merit or work of any kind whatsoever is automatically disqualified.

1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.

All those who fancy themselves as good need not apply.

The sad part, is this takes humility, You will find people who already think (or hope they are righteous) and worthy of Gods love, already lack the humility required to find Gods love!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Everyone who follows Yahweh's Law does not claim justification by it.

That is the default stance of those who are at enmity with Yahweh, as an excuse to not have to follow it.

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

You have a major problem here.

1. The law is the flesh, Scripture states this. The spirit is love, Scripture states this. so people who are setting their mind on the law are of the flesh. and people who focus on the law of love are spirit minded.
2. You claim salvation can be lost. Thus you claim justification MUST BE EARNED,. thus every time you state you do not teach justification by the law, you contradict yourself.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To the person here who gave the big long list of things you should or should not do on the Sabbath, the fact that he or she made this long list proves the whole point of the Opening Post.

Those who don't keep the Sabbath view God as a Tyrant and a Legalist. Just like the Pharisees.

And by the way, I keep the Sabbath and I do not trading, no traveling unless is necessary to do the work of God (just as Jesus did), no cooking, or any of those things. I do not do it legalistically like the Pharisees. I count the Sabbath as a DELIGHT. I take the day off and spend it contemplating God and helping others if they need help. That's not so difficult to do, you know?

The funny thing about it is that people who talk about all these things we are NOT supposed to do on |Sabbath, always seem to find time on SUNDAY to do things like watch football, or whatever. Such hypocrisy!

wow so watching footbal ( a relaxing event) is breaking the sabbath? And who is claiming sunday is the new sabbath. I keep hearing this said. but no one seems to say who. Why is this?

 

[danschance]

wow so watching footbal ( a relaxing event) is breaking the sabbath? And who is claiming sunday is the new sabbath. I keep hearing this said. but no one seems to say who. Why is this?

I have heard that claim also and it is false charge (straw man) against Christians. We do not have a special day where we must worship. We can worship on any day and at any time we wish as a group or as an individual.

 

[john832]

The sad part, is this takes humility, You will find people who already think (or hope they are righteous) and worthy of Gods love, already lack the humility required to find Gods love!

I am aware of this...

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

I also am aware of this...

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You reasoning makes no sense to me. So go ahead and commit adultery? go ahead and murder? go ahead and bear false witness against your neighbour? go ahead and bow to graven images?

What you do not seem to understand is that just because God is not seriously punishing those who are violating His Law RIGHT NOW, there will come a day, don't worry.

Its just that we are no longer under a THEOCRACY now. That means that if you violate God's Law, there is no one to come around and stone you.

The punishment WILL COME, and it will come from God Himself in the form of the last plagues and hellfire...

Isaiah 24:5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

So according to this thougt process. King David, Who committed adultery many times over, and murder, Is going to recieve a HUGE punishment for his sins in te future. heck e most likely will enter torment, Same goes with the apostle Paul, Who murdered an unknown amount of Gods people. These poor sinners have no hope

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So, one should just sin as much as he possibly can and Christ is well pleased? What you say does not square with scripture...

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Now how does that square with "just come as you are"?

There is a HUGE difference between admitting you fail, and falling in sin, but being able to come to the father without fear, but as our abba father.

And thinking your holier than most people because you do not commit certain sins.. Thus you must be more holy. This sin as much as you want (which NO ONE HERE IS CLAIMING WE SHOULD DO, is an old argument. and it gets you no where. because it would only work if people actually believed and did what you are saying!

 

[john832]

You have a major problem here.

1. The law is the flesh, Scripture states this. The spirit is love, Scripture states this. so people who are setting their mind on the law are of the flesh. and people who focus on the law of love are spirit minded.
2. You claim salvation can be lost. Thus you claim justification MUST BE EARNED,. thus every time you state you do not teach justification by the law, you contradict yourself.

And you discount plain scripture...

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have heard that claim also and it is false charge (straw man) against Christians. We do not have a special day where we must worship. We can worship on any day and at any time we wish as a group or as an individual.

thats the problem. The sabbath was not given as a day of worship. it was given as a day to rest from our work, and prepair for another day of work. People have distorted what the sabbath means, And expect all the rest of us to follow their twisted interpretation of what it is, then get angry when we disagree with them.

They claim we judge them, when in fact it is them judging us!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am aware of this...

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

I also am aware of this...

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

thats great you know the first part.

What you fail to see is the second part. That he who begun a good work in you WILL COMPLETE IT. That those who are born again WILL do the work God created them to do.

Your problem is your doing it of your own power. Praising yourself for being able to do it and judging others.. And refusing to Give God the credit where it is due, HE WILL change his children. THEY WILL follow his ways (although not perfect. and some better than others, and some will change slower than others) But HE WILL COMPLETE HIS WORK.

why don't you stop trusting in your own ability, and praising yourself. And let God change you as he promised he would (if you are even saved)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And you discount plain scripture...

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Nice twist.

Hebrews is talking about returning to law. Which states that when you sin, You must sacrifice an animal. So why would you go back to an imperfect system, when there can be no more sacrifice for sin?

A dog returns to his own vomit. A jew returns to his own system of belief if that is what they really trust. this is the warning. NOT that one can lose salvation.

Stop trusting yourself. You will fail miserably.

 

[Stephen63]

@ UriahSmith1844,
What other laws are we supposed to keep? Are there others we're breaking?

 

[BradC]

You reasoning makes no sense to me. So go ahead and commit adultery? go ahead and murder? go ahead and bear false witness against your neighbour? go ahead and bow to graven images?

What you do not seem to understand is that just because God is not seriously punishing those who are violating His Law RIGHT NOW, there will come a day, don't worry.

Its just that we are no longer under a THEOCRACY now. That means that if you violate God's Law, there is no one to come around and stone you.

The punishment WILL COME, and it will come from God Himself in the form of the last plagues and hellfire...

Isaiah 24:5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

Why are you not under a theocracy right now, yet you still remain under the law to obey it? Is not Christ the end of the law of righteousness to everyone that believes (Rom 10:4)? That does not say that we are free to violate the letter of the law but that we are not under the condemnation of the law to obey it. We have the Spirit of life that is going to lead and guide us in the words of Christ. If we do not obey his voice our hearts may be hardened and we will be chastised but not condemned because we are under grace and not the law. God gives us room to grow in grace and knowledge and He will not condemn us if we fail to live according to the mandates of his word. He will convict us through the Spirit and bring us to a place of humility so that we can be turned and begin to mix faith with the word we have been taught. This would never happen under the law, it only happens in Christ under grace.

We are being transformed by every word we hear from the mouth of God. The law has no power to transform us nor does it have the power of an endless life. There will be no need to keep the law or any of the commandments when we have a glorified body in the new heaven and earth because Satan and all those who were workers of iniquity will be bound in the lake of fire forever, the old man will be eradicated and there will be no sin in us or propensity to transgress or disobey God's voice. The law was only given because of sin. Those of you who continue to suggest that we are advocating that it is permissible to disregard the law do not understand what it means to be placed under grace and not the law (Rom 6:14,15).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why are you not under a theocracy right now, yet you still remain under the law to obey it? Is not Christ the end of the law of righteousness to everyone that believes (Rom 10:4)? That does not say that we are free to violate the letter of the law but that we are not under the condemnation of the law to obey it. We have the Spirit of life that is going to lead and guide us in the words of Christ. If we do not obey his voice our hearts may be hardened and we will be chastised but not condemned because we are under grace and not the law. God gives us room to grow in grace and knowledge and He will not condemn us if we fail to live according to the mandates of his word. He will convict us through the Spirit and bring us to a place of humility so that we can be turned and begin to mix faith with the word we have been taught. This would never happen under the law, it only happens in Christ under grace.

We are being transformed by every word we hear from the mouth of God. The law has no power to transform us nor does it have the power of an endless life. There will be no need to keep the law or any of the commandments when we have a glorified body in the new heaven and earth because Satan and all those who were workers of iniquity will be bound in the lake of fire forever, the old man will be eradicated and there will be no sin in us or propensity to transgress or disobey God's voice. The law was only given because of sin. Those of you who continue to suggest that we are advocating that it is permissible to disregard the law do not understand what it means to be placed under grace and not the law (Rom 6:14,15).

They do not comprehend there is a huge difference between a person not born of God who is habitually sinning, and a child born of God who would try to do this.

A non child of God only suffers the consequence of the sin, and they are most likely hardened to it and can not even see it.

A chilkd of God has to deal with guilt. The chastening of God. And God putting road blocks in our way to turn us from that sin. Thus as John says, a child of God can not continue in sin, it is just infeasible for this to happen. Thats why people who claim salvation and still do this, I would doubt there salvation.

They call us licentious, because they do not understand what really happens. They doubt the power of God to change lives. and only want to puff themselves up for being obedient, and judge the rest of us.

 

[homwardbound]

How are days counted? By hours? Minutes? Seconds? How long is a day?

Lev 23:32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.

Days are counted from sunset to sunset. Doesn't matter how many hours, minutes or seconds are in the day, it begins at sunset and ends the next sunset. God determined this and it had nothing to do with the Gregorian calendar or a watch with a second hand. The cycle of seven days, counted from sunset to sunset, has not been broken from creation.

How does anyone know from the Bible which day was and is the seventh day of the week, where is it in the word that this one day a week is: A name for this particular day as being what is worshiped today as Sabbath on Friday night to Saturday night sundown?
No one yet has come up with an exact verse stating what day the seventh day is
It seems to me tradition is in the way and is why in Romans it says one man views one day above another, while another views every day alike let each be fully convinced in their own minds
Okay I am not getting in another ones way, not intending to, or trying to get you to not worship your way. as to how another worships, are you all going to get out of my way in the way I worship, both of us giving God thanks?

Are we going to agree to disagree and worship Father through Son, regardless?

 

[homwardbound]

To take it even further, any person who approaches the cross on the grounds of his or her merit or work of any kind whatsoever is automatically disqualified.

1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.

All those who fancy themselves as good need not apply.

Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

So each of us decide and know if we walk this way or that, Flesh or Spirit of God
Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
2 Corinthians 10:2 but I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh

 

[homwardbound]

1 Yahchanan (John) 2:4, " He who says: I know Him, but does not keep His Law, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

1785. entolé
entolé: an injunction, order, command
Original Word: ἐντολή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: entolé
Phonetic Spelling: (en-tol-ay')
Short Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

New Living Translation
If someone claims, "I know God," but doesn't obey God's commandments, that person is a liar and is not living in the truth.

English Standard Version
Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,

New American Standard Bible
The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

King James Bible
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Hebrews 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

 

[BradC]

They do not comprehend there is a huge difference between a person not born of God who is habitually sinning, and a child born of God who would try to do this.

A non child of God only suffers the consequence of the sin, and they are most likely hardened to it and can not even see it.

A chilkd of God has to deal with guilt. The chastening of God. And God putting road blocks in our way to turn us from that sin. Thus as John says, a child of God can not continue in sin, it is just infeasible for this to happen. Thats why people who claim salvation and still do this, I would doubt there salvation.

They call us licentious, because they do not understand what really happens. They doubt the power of God to change lives. and only want to puff themselves up for being obedient, and judge the rest of us.

We all want the law of God to be our standard for living but how we go about that as believers must be done in the Spirit, through faith and by the grace of God. If done in the flesh strictly by obedience to the letter of the law that would be death and condemnation, but done by faith through the Spirit and according to the grace of God then we will have life (2 Cor 3). This is the life of the New Testament that we are to be able ministers of, not of the letter but of the Spirit.

 

[homwardbound]

And you discount plain scripture...

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Therefore then let us agree for this Judgement to come, to each of us and be revealed from God to whom each of us are in god right here right now, so maybe we all will be saved?

 

[danschance]

Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Hebrews 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

I have been reading Hebrews and it is a rich book. I am glad you pointed out out Hebrews 7:11-12. That is a good point.