DRINKING AND THE SCRIPTURES

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E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Come with me down to the rehab center. See how it has destroyed lives and marriages. Can anything good come from it?

While we are at it, lets go to the trauma centers and see how a kid driving to school got mangled because she got in a single car accident when someone cut her off. Then lets preach how we should not allow kids to drive cars anymore.

In the meantime, Scripture means nothing so we can ignore what it says.
 
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perhaps...??so you are not even sure that veracity of your defence.

Let us go further... How old do you think, can (your) unfermented wine can be classified as intoxicating?
No doubt.....
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
PS. I may have an agenda here. I was hit by a drunk driver in 1985 on a Sunday on a drive home from church. I still have considerable pain, plus the accident left me incapacitated and triggered first asthma and then severe Rheumatoid Arthritis. My sister got MS after she was hit by a drunk driver! She is not able to practice law, as I had to give up teaching, so another economic loss not included in the above statistics.

Christians should not be a part of encouraging this carnage. My life was ruined by a drunk drive, but at least I am still alive, in pain 29 years later. My heart goes out to those who have lost a love one because consumption of alcohol is promoted as a lifestyle, and not a Christian one.
so again, We ignore what scripture says?

It is one thing to council people abusing the stuff. But to condemn those who drink it who do not abuse it. That is a little legalistic is it not, Would that not make us just as bad as the pharisees?

"Thank you Lord i am not like this sinner. I do nto Drink, SMoke, Cuss, Dance and I go to Church every SUnday and make every wed night prayer meeting.. "

See how foolish this sounds?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I suppose that watering down the wine is just the tip of the iceberg as many today water down the word by their opinions instead of being mature about the inspired word of God as found in the OP.
Seems to be a human habit. we water stuff down so that it can benefit us.

In watering down wine, it is alot cheaper. In watering down the word. We do not have to admit we are wrong
 
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So, you know what God thinks? Did He tell you? What you're telling me is what YOU think. I am merely searching for educated christians who are reputable, and in agreement. I don't know you or DC, so guess what......... you're not credible to me.

I don't expect to be credible in people's eyes....... so I post those that are. If you don't want to listen to commentaries & theologians, that's your problem. I don't believe for a moment, neither should others, that chat members know more than commentaries & theologians.
Who cares!....what you think about me or my stance is irrelevant and what I think about you is irrelevant so whatever mi amigo.....I will go with the boundaries as set by God's Word without reservation! and let God be my judge....
 
K

Kerry

Guest

While we are at it, lets go to the trauma centers and see how a kid driving to school got mangled because she got in a single car accident when someone cut her off. Then lets preach how we should not allow kids to drive cars anymore.

In the meantime, Scripture means nothing so we can ignore what it says.

Yeah its real bad when you are driving home from church and get hit by a drunk driver that left your church. cause it's okay. Don't mention how it destroys life, tickle the ears.
 
D

Daley

Guest
What do you, need it for. To help you sleep or to calm the stress of life. Whats the need. If the cross can't suffice. nothing else will. Might as well fire it up and pass it around. Whats the difference.
I never said I need alcohol. But just because you don't need something doesn't mean you shouldn't have it. Nobody needs wine, but Jesus still provided it at the wedding in Cana. Thing is, it is better to have alcohol than not to have it around. It was sure useful to the Good Samaritan in treating the man's wounds.

"[h=3]Longevity[/h]Moderate drinkers tend to live longer than those who either abstain or drink heavily.

  • The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism has found that the lowest death rate from all causes occurs at the level of one to two drinks each day.10
  • Drinking alcohol in moderation (1-2 drinks per day for women and 2-4 for men) was found to reduce risk of mortality significantly according to meta-analysis of 34 studies of alcohol and total mortality among 1,015,835 men and women around the world.11
  • An exhaustive review of all major heart disease studies found that "Alcohol consumption is related to total mortality in a U-shaped manner, where moderate consumers have a reduced total mortality compared with total non-consumers and heavy consumers."12
  • A Harvard study found the risk of death from all causes to be 21% to 28% lower among men who drank alcohol moderately, compared with abstainers.13
  • A large-scale study in China found that middle-aged men who drank moderately had a nearly 20% lower overall mortality compared with abstainers.14
  • Harvard's Nurses' Health Study of over 85,000 women found reduced mortality among moderate drinkers.15
  • A British analysis of 12,000 male physicians found that moderate drinkers had the lowest risk of death from all causes during the 13 year study.16
  • A large study of about 88,000 people conducted over a period of ten years found that moderate drinkers were about 27% less likely to die during the period than were either abstainers or heavy drinkers. The superior longevity was largely due to a reduction of such diseases as coronary heart disease, cancer, and respiratory diseases.17
  • A twelve year long prospective study of over 200,000 men found that subjects who had consumed alcohol in moderation were less likely to die during that period than those who abstained from alcohol.18
  • A study of more than 40,000 people by the Cancer Research Center in Honolulu found that "persons with moderate alcohol intake appear to have a significantly lower risk of dying than nondrinkers."19
  • An analysis of the 89,299 men in the Physicians' Health Study over a period of five and one-half years found that those who drink alcohol in moderation tend to live longer than those who either abstain or drink heavily.20
  • An Italian study of 1,536 men aged 45-65 found that about two years of life were gained by moderate drinkers (1-4 drinks per day) in comparison with occasional and heavy drinkers.21
  • A study of 2,487 adults aged 70-79 years, who were followed for an average period of over five and one-half years, found that all-cause mortality was significantly lower in light to moderate drinkers than in abstainers or occasional drinkers (those who drank less than one drink per week).22
  • A large prospective study found that older men consuming up to about three drinks per day and older women consuming over one drink per day had a dramatically lower risk of dying than did non-drinkers.23
  • A large study found that moderate drinkers, even after controlling for or adjusting for numerous factors, maintain their high longevity or life survival advantage over alcohol abstainers.24
  • A Danish study of about 12,000 men and women over a period of 20 years found that abstaining from moderate alcohol consumption is a health and longevity risk factor. Choosing not to drink alcohol increases the risk of illness, disease and death.25
  • A 14-year study of nearly 3,000 residents of an Australian community found that abstainers were twice as likely to enter a nursing home as people who were moderate drinkers. Drinkers also spent less time in hospitals and were less likely to die during the period of the study.26
  • A prospective study of middle-aged Chinese men found that the consumption of two drinks per day was associated with a 19% reduction in mortality risk. This protective effect was not restricted to a specific type of alcoholic drink.27
  • Alcohol prevents more deaths than its abuse causes in the United Kingdom, according to research from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine.28
  • Scientists at the University of London concluded that light and moderate drinking saves more lives in England and Wales than are lost through the abuse of alcohol. If everyone abstained from alcohol, death rates would be significantly higher.29
  • The Cancer Council of New South Wales concludes that "If the net effect of total alcohol consumption on Australian society is considered, there is a net saving of lives due to the protective effect of low levels of consumption on cardiovascular disease."30...


  • 10. Highlights of the NIAAA position paper on moderate alcohol consumption. Press release from the journal, Alcoholism: Clinical & Experimental Research, July 14, 2004.
  • 11. Di Castelnuovo, Augusto, et al. Alcohol dosing and total mortality in men and women: An updated meta-analysis of 34 prospective studies. Archives of Internal Medicine, 2006, 166, 2437-2445.
  • 12. La Porte, R., et al. Coronary heart disease and total mortality. Recent developments in Alcoholism, 1985, 3, 157-163.
  • 13. Camargo, C. A., et al. Prospective study of moderate alcohol consumption and mortality in US male physicians. Archives of Internal Medicine, 1997, 157, 79-85.
  • 14. Yuan, J-M., et al. Follow up study of moderate alcohol intake and mortality among middle aged men in Shanghai, China. British Medical Journal, 1997, 314, 18-23.
  • 15. Fuchs, C. S., et al. Alcohol consumption and mortality among women. The New England Journal of Medicine, 1995, 332(19), 1245-1250.
  • 16. Doll, R., and Peto, R. Mortality in relation to consumption of alcohol: 13 years' observations on male British doctors. British Medical Journal, 1994, 309, 911-918.
  • 17. Klatsky, A., Friedman, G., and Siegelaub, A. Alcohol and mortality: ten-year Kaiser Permanente experience. Annals of Internal Medicine, 1981, 95(2), 139-145.
  • 18. Boffetta, P., and Garefinkel, L. Alcohol drinking among men enrolled in an American Cancer Society prospective study. Epidemiology, 1990, 1(5), 42-48.
  • 19. Maskarinec, G., et al. Alcohol intake, body weight, and mortality in a multiethnic prospective cohort. Epidemiology, 1998, 9(6), 654-661.
  • 20. Gaziano, J.M. et al., Light-to-moderate alcohol consumption and mortality in the Physicians' Health Study enrollment cohort. Journal of the American College of Cardiology, 35(1), 2000, 96-105.
  • 21. Farchi, G., et al. Alcohol and survival in the Italian rural cohorts of the Seven Countries Study. International Journal of Epidemiology, 2000, 29, 667-671.
  • 22. Maraldi, C., et al. Impact of inflammation on the relationship among alcohol consumption, mortality, and cardiac events: the Health, Aging, and Body Composition Study. Archives of Internal Medicine, 2006, 166(14), 1490-1497.
  • 23. McCaul KA, Almeida OP, Hankey GJ, Jamrozik K, Byles JE, Flicker L. Alcohol use and mortality in older men and women. Addiction, 2010. On-line prior to publication: doi:10.1111/j.1360-0443.2010.02972.x
  • 24. Lee, S.J. et al. Functional limitations, socioeconomic status, and all-cause mortality in moderate alcohol drinkers. Journal of the American Gerontological Society, 2009, 57(6), 995-962.
  • 25. Østergaard Pedersen J, Heitmann BL, Schnohr P, Grønbæk M. The combined influence of leisure-time physical activity and weekly alcohol intake on fatal ischaemic heart disease and all-cause mortality. European Heart Journal 2008; DOI:10.1093/eurheartj/ehm574.
  • 26. McCallum, J., et al. The Dubbo Study of the Health of the Elderly 1988-2002: An Epidemiological Study of Hospitaol and Residential Care. Sydney, NSW, Australia: The Australian Health Policy Institute, 2003.
  • 27. de Groot, L.C. and Zock, P.L. Moderate alcohol intake and mortality. Nutrition Review, 1998, 56(1, pt. 1), 25-26.
  • 28. Dodson, Roger. Alcohol prevents more deaths than it causes. Independent News (UK) 5-23-04.
  • 29. Britton, A., and McPherson, K. Mortality in England and Wales attributable to current alcohol consumption. Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health, 2001, 55(6), 383-388.
  • 30. Cancer Council of New South Wales website." https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=PZmtpA_kbbqNeJGi0xqsbg&bvm=bv.62578216,d.eW0

If you don't want to drink, fine, just don't condemn those who do. You may not want these benefits but many people do. By the way, in 1 Corinthians 11:20-22, what was alcohol doing at the communion service if the church only used to use grape juice?
 
K

Kerry

Guest
now I know for sure that the apostate church is prevalent. Drink up and party on. If it feels good do it. Hey it's about time to pour another. If you want to keep parting you will need some meth otherwise you will pass out.
 
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I never said I need alcohol. But just because you don't need something doesn't mean you shouldn't have it. Nobody needs wine, but Jesus still provided it at the wedding in Cana. Thing is, it is better to have alcohol than not to have it around. It was sure useful to the Good Samaritan in treating the man's wounds.

"Longevity

Moderate drinkers tend to live longer than those who either abstain or drink heavily.

  • The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism has found that the lowest death rate from all causes occurs at the level of one to two drinks each day.10
  • Drinking alcohol in moderation (1-2 drinks per day for women and 2-4 for men) was found to reduce risk of mortality significantly according to meta-analysis of 34 studies of alcohol and total mortality among 1,015,835 men and women around the world.11
  • An exhaustive review of all major heart disease studies found that "Alcohol consumption is related to total mortality in a U-shaped manner, where moderate consumers have a reduced total mortality compared with total non-consumers and heavy consumers."12
  • A Harvard study found the risk of death from all causes to be 21% to 28% lower among men who drank alcohol moderately, compared with abstainers.13
  • A large-scale study in China found that middle-aged men who drank moderately had a nearly 20% lower overall mortality compared with abstainers.14
  • Harvard's Nurses' Health Study of over 85,000 women found reduced mortality among moderate drinkers.15
  • A British analysis of 12,000 male physicians found that moderate drinkers had the lowest risk of death from all causes during the 13 year study.16
  • A large study of about 88,000 people conducted over a period of ten years found that moderate drinkers were about 27% less likely to die during the period than were either abstainers or heavy drinkers. The superior longevity was largely due to a reduction of such diseases as coronary heart disease, cancer, and respiratory diseases.17
  • A twelve year long prospective study of over 200,000 men found that subjects who had consumed alcohol in moderation were less likely to die during that period than those who abstained from alcohol.18
  • A study of more than 40,000 people by the Cancer Research Center in Honolulu found that "persons with moderate alcohol intake appear to have a significantly lower risk of dying than nondrinkers."19
  • An analysis of the 89,299 men in the Physicians' Health Study over a period of five and one-half years found that those who drink alcohol in moderation tend to live longer than those who either abstain or drink heavily.20
  • An Italian study of 1,536 men aged 45-65 found that about two years of life were gained by moderate drinkers (1-4 drinks per day) in comparison with occasional and heavy drinkers.21
  • A study of 2,487 adults aged 70-79 years, who were followed for an average period of over five and one-half years, found that all-cause mortality was significantly lower in light to moderate drinkers than in abstainers or occasional drinkers (those who drank less than one drink per week).22
  • A large prospective study found that older men consuming up to about three drinks per day and older women consuming over one drink per day had a dramatically lower risk of dying than did non-drinkers.23
  • A large study found that moderate drinkers, even after controlling for or adjusting for numerous factors, maintain their high longevity or life survival advantage over alcohol abstainers.24
  • A Danish study of about 12,000 men and women over a period of 20 years found that abstaining from moderate alcohol consumption is a health and longevity risk factor. Choosing not to drink alcohol increases the risk of illness, disease and death.25
  • A 14-year study of nearly 3,000 residents of an Australian community found that abstainers were twice as likely to enter a nursing home as people who were moderate drinkers. Drinkers also spent less time in hospitals and were less likely to die during the period of the study.26
  • A prospective study of middle-aged Chinese men found that the consumption of two drinks per day was associated with a 19% reduction in mortality risk. This protective effect was not restricted to a specific type of alcoholic drink.27
  • Alcohol prevents more deaths than its abuse causes in the United Kingdom, according to research from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine.28
  • Scientists at the University of London concluded that light and moderate drinking saves more lives in England and Wales than are lost through the abuse of alcohol. If everyone abstained from alcohol, death rates would be significantly higher.29
  • The Cancer Council of New South Wales concludes that "If the net effect of total alcohol consumption on Australian society is considered, there is a net saving of lives due to the protective effect of low levels of consumption on cardiovascular disease."30...


  • 10. Highlights of the NIAAA position paper on moderate alcohol consumption. Press release from the journal, Alcoholism: Clinical & Experimental Research, July 14, 2004.
  • 11. Di Castelnuovo, Augusto, et al. Alcohol dosing and total mortality in men and women: An updated meta-analysis of 34 prospective studies. Archives of Internal Medicine, 2006, 166, 2437-2445.
  • 12. La Porte, R., et al. Coronary heart disease and total mortality. Recent developments in Alcoholism, 1985, 3, 157-163.
  • 13. Camargo, C. A., et al. Prospective study of moderate alcohol consumption and mortality in US male physicians. Archives of Internal Medicine, 1997, 157, 79-85.
  • 14. Yuan, J-M., et al. Follow up study of moderate alcohol intake and mortality among middle aged men in Shanghai, China. British Medical Journal, 1997, 314, 18-23.
  • 15. Fuchs, C. S., et al. Alcohol consumption and mortality among women. The New England Journal of Medicine, 1995, 332(19), 1245-1250.
  • 16. Doll, R., and Peto, R. Mortality in relation to consumption of alcohol: 13 years' observations on male British doctors. British Medical Journal, 1994, 309, 911-918.
  • 17. Klatsky, A., Friedman, G., and Siegelaub, A. Alcohol and mortality: ten-year Kaiser Permanente experience. Annals of Internal Medicine, 1981, 95(2), 139-145.
  • 18. Boffetta, P., and Garefinkel, L. Alcohol drinking among men enrolled in an American Cancer Society prospective study. Epidemiology, 1990, 1(5), 42-48.
  • 19. Maskarinec, G., et al. Alcohol intake, body weight, and mortality in a multiethnic prospective cohort. Epidemiology, 1998, 9(6), 654-661.
  • 20. Gaziano, J.M. et al., Light-to-moderate alcohol consumption and mortality in the Physicians' Health Study enrollment cohort. Journal of the American College of Cardiology, 35(1), 2000, 96-105.
  • 21. Farchi, G., et al. Alcohol and survival in the Italian rural cohorts of the Seven Countries Study. International Journal of Epidemiology, 2000, 29, 667-671.
  • 22. Maraldi, C., et al. Impact of inflammation on the relationship among alcohol consumption, mortality, and cardiac events: the Health, Aging, and Body Composition Study. Archives of Internal Medicine, 2006, 166(14), 1490-1497.
  • 23. McCaul KA, Almeida OP, Hankey GJ, Jamrozik K, Byles JE, Flicker L. Alcohol use and mortality in older men and women. Addiction, 2010. On-line prior to publication: doi:10.1111/j.1360-0443.2010.02972.x
  • 24. Lee, S.J. et al. Functional limitations, socioeconomic status, and all-cause mortality in moderate alcohol drinkers. Journal of the American Gerontological Society, 2009, 57(6), 995-962.
  • 25. Østergaard Pedersen J, Heitmann BL, Schnohr P, Grønbæk M. The combined influence of leisure-time physical activity and weekly alcohol intake on fatal ischaemic heart disease and all-cause mortality. European Heart Journal 2008; DOI:10.1093/eurheartj/ehm574.
  • 26. McCallum, J., et al. The Dubbo Study of the Health of the Elderly 1988-2002: An Epidemiological Study of Hospitaol and Residential Care. Sydney, NSW, Australia: The Australian Health Policy Institute, 2003.
  • 27. de Groot, L.C. and Zock, P.L. Moderate alcohol intake and mortality. Nutrition Review, 1998, 56(1, pt. 1), 25-26.
  • 28. Dodson, Roger. Alcohol prevents more deaths than it causes. Independent News (UK) 5-23-04.
  • 29. Britton, A., and McPherson, K. Mortality in England and Wales attributable to current alcohol consumption. Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health, 2001, 55(6), 383-388.
  • 30. Cancer Council of New South Wales website." https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=PZmtpA_kbbqNeJGi0xqsbg&bvm=bv.62578216,d.eW0

If you don't want to drink, fine, just don't condemn those who do. You may not want these benefits but many people do. By the way, in 1 Corinthians 11:20-22, what was alcohol doing at the communion service if the church only used to use grape juice?
Awesome list for real!
 
K

Kerry

Guest
what's that song. Whiskey makes my baby feel a little friskie. Then abort it.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Seems to be a human habit. we water stuff down so that it can benefit us.

In watering down wine, it is alot cheaper. In watering down the word. We do not have to admit we are wrong
No doubt....it seems that there are quite a few truths that have been watered down, dumbed down, rejected, denied, trampled under foot etc. I will go with the full blown glory of the word and the biblical freedom found within it's pages! For real!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yeah its real bad when you are driving home from church and get hit by a drunk driver that left your church. cause it's okay. Don't mention how it destroys life, tickle the ears.
well it is obvious you do not wish to discuss the word of God. I just pray you do not think God thinks highly of you by attacking people because you would be sadly mistaking
 
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John when writing the wedding at cana clearly wasn't think about the 18 page debate it would cause over at CC :eek:
Too funny and there would be no debate if it were not for those who reject the simple truths as found in the OP....
 
J

Jay1

Guest
Are you kidding me? 1 Corinthians 11 - First of all this is when Paul was teaching the newly converted Corinthians Christians how to conduct themselves because he received word that there were disagreements and divisions in the church. Secondly it says right there in the scripture that they came for the Lord's Supper but it was being done irreverently. They were bringing their regular suppers and alcohol wine to the Lord's Supper (communion) and Paul told them they were wrong in doing so, he chastised them - verse 22. In verse 23-34 Paul tells them the correct way to keep the Lord's Supper. He even called it damnation, and said that we should not be condemned with the world, the way they were keeping it. You provided your own answer. I hope you understand now.
 
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I guess you just showed more hypocracy.

we feel the same way about people ignoring Gods word, and them calling us names and condemning us. or saying we stick up for booze. or fight for it (another lie)

I hope you do not think anyone is going to read all that stuff. we are not hear to discuss what other men thing. But what God thinks, and what you think. that is a discussion
[/QUOTE

This is true as well....post a few scriptures in context and (Katie bar the door).....HAHAH
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Are you kidding me? 1 Corinthians 11 - First of all this is when Paul was teaching the newly converted Corinthians Christians how to conduct themselves because he received word that there were disagreements and divisions in the church. Secondly it says right there in the scripture that they came for the Lord's Supper but it was being done irreverently. They were bringing their regular suppers and alcohol wine to the Lord's Supper (communion) and Paul told them they were wrong in doing so, he chastised them - verse 22. In verse 23-34 Paul tells them the correct way to keep the Lord's Supper. He even called it damnation, and said that we should not be condemned with the world, the way they were keeping it. You provided your own answer. I hope you understand now.

wow. talk about missing the boat.


they all ate together that was normal. they also drank together that was normal..

the sin was not sharing. by keeping it from the poor. when they had food at home they could eat. and by drinking to much of the ine, thus getting drunk..

wow


[SUP]22 [/SUP]What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? what shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.
 
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you can say all you want about if Jesus drank wine or what we would call grape juice. the fact it nowhere in the Bible does it say that the consumption of alcohol is a sin. the word temperance that Paul uses can mean abstinence or moderation. so either is fine by Biblical standards.
I agree with this biblical stance on the word of God......for sure! AMEN
 
K

Kerry

Guest
well it is obvious you do not wish to discuss the word of God. I just pray you do not think God thinks highly of you by attacking people because you would be sadly mistaking
Hey, if you want to take down go ahead. Drink your wine and whatever, that's your choice. As I have sais you can drive down the road with your feet, but that don't mean it is a good Idea. If it bakes your biscuit the tie it on. If you need a glass of wine to go to sleep. Then you are stressed and say the cross is not sufficient. I need this alcohol. It's a circle that you can'y get out of. In fact you are bound. Put it away for three weeks if you can and see the bondage.
 
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Who cares!....what you think about me or my stance is irrelevant and what I think about you is irrelevant so whatever mi amigo.....I will go with the boundaries as set by God's Word without reservation! and let God be my judge....
Well, I guess that says it all...... no comment.