What makes it impossible for a carnal mind to be subject to the law?

just-me · Mar 18, 2014

Continuing the principle from post #99

John 5:31-32 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.

I concur with the words of Jesus, as the principle to live by, and not by bread alone, but by every word that God has given including the first 5 books of the bible.

svedbygrace · Mar 18, 2014

chub

Show me scripture that says that because man being carnal is sold unto sin according to Rom 7:14

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Now you need to find a scripture that says:

Your word is not good enough !

svedbygrace · Mar 18, 2014

eternally-gratefull said:

Where is your scripture support that says:

chubbena · Mar 18, 2014

eternally-gratefull said:

I don't understand why one would say that. It's not based on pride when the Father said what He said. It's not based on pride when the Son said what He said. It's not based on pride when Paul said what he said. But it's based on pride when one quotes what they said?

eternally-gratefull · Mar 18, 2014

just-me said:

no you did not. you did what you always do and went of on a rabbit trail which did not answer my question at all.

I asked you how the sentence.

"thou shalt not bear false witness"

in and of itself tells us how not to do it.

And I gave you ALL we can gleem out of those exact words, and asked you if you disagreed with my summation.

you went all over the place. and did not answer my questions.

svedbygrace · Mar 18, 2014

eg

What scripture says that ?

eternally-gratefull · Mar 18, 2014

svedbygrace said:

rom 7: 14 is speaking of the current state of man/ NOT the state of man prior to sin.

Let go of your calvanist blinders and you will see this

just-me · Mar 18, 2014

svedbygrace said:

You bring up good points but the thread is about the carnal mind in reference to the law given to Moses, not free will, or being chosen of choosing to sin or not to sin. It's about not having capability to understand the law. Adam understood, and saw his nakedness because of God's commandments, otherwise he wouldn't have covered himself with fig leaves.

eternally-gratefull · Mar 18, 2014

chubbena said:

I have no idea what your talking about here. can you explain further?

I am talking about what causes US to sin. Nothing else.

just-me · Mar 18, 2014

eternally-gratefull said:

See post #108. We are getting off the subject

Least · Mar 18, 2014

eternally-gratefull said:

God's commandments are first.

The rest of the bible gives examples of those who either kept those commandment or didn't keep them.

If you've read through the entire bible, you'd see that several bore false witness against Joseph, that is how he ended up being passed from Potipher's home and on into prison.

Psalms is full of passages about people bearing false witness.

If you read the account of the trial of Christ, many came forward and bore false witness.

What more do you need?

The example that you chose to use, "Thou shalt not bear false witness," The law actually gives much more detail to what that means.

Look it up and come back and share it.

It's not that difficult.

chubbena · Mar 18, 2014

svedbygrace said:

To say otherwise is to suggest Adam did not have the freedom (not free will, but freedom) to choose. Even Cain, Abel, Noah, the Israel nation out of Egypt, the saints in OT - they all had the freedom to choose. Some chose wisely, some not.

Least · Mar 18, 2014

Thought of another passage that speaks of bearing false witness. It is given in a list of things that God hates. Why would anyone want to do anything that is not pleasing to God? He is the same yesterday today and forever.

Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
Proverbs 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
Proverbs 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
Proverbs 6:20 My son, keep thy father's commandment, and forsake not the law of thy mother:
Proverbs 6:21 Bind them continually upon thine heart, and tie them about thy neck.

eternally-gratefull · Mar 18, 2014

Least said:

God's commandments are first.

The rest of the bible gives examples of those who either kept those commandment or didn't keep them.

If you've read through the entire bible, you'd see that several bore false witness against Joseph, that is how he ended up being passed from Potipher's home and on into prison.

Psalms is full of passages about people bearing false witness.

If you read the account of the trial of Christ, many came forward and bore false witness.

What more do you need?

The example that you chose to use, "Thou shalt not bear false witness," The law actually gives much more detail to what that means.

Look it up and come back and share it.

It's not that difficult.

ok. So the law shows us we have sinned, and need a savior.

It gives much more info? Where?

eternally-gratefull · Mar 18, 2014

Least said:

ok. Again, This shows us what it is.

No where in this passage does it tell us HOW to do it..

That is my question. I know what it is. But by what you are posting, I do not know how not to do it.

Can you show me where it tells us this in the law?

Least · Mar 18, 2014

If you don't learn by example I don't know what to say. God's word gives us the law, (What God expects from us,) and then manyyyy examples of those who did right and those who did not. I would have preferred that you looked it up for yourself.

The command also ties directly into loving your neighbor as yourself. Part of the two greatest commandments.

Exodus 23:1 Thou shalt not raise a false report: put not thine hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness.
Exodus 23:2 Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil; neither shalt thou speak in a cause to decline after many to wrest judgment:

Deuteronomy 19:16 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong;
Deuteronomy 19:17 Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days;
Deuteronomy 19:18 And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;
Deuteronomy 19:19 Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you.
Deuteronomy 19:20 And those which remain shall hear, and fear, and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you.

just-me · Mar 18, 2014

eternally-gratefull said:

Here is a law that shows much more than our sin. It shows us a process of cleansing, so I believe "least" is correct that you would do well to read it and then share it. If you think the law is no more than condemnation, you haven't taken the time to see the instructions in righteousness.

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Remember that most, if not all that people had for scripture, when Paul wrote this, was Old Testament as we know today. What we have, and call the New Testament scriptures had not been published at the same time they were being written. Paul didn't copy his own writing while he was writing the same thing.

Here is the law of cleansing, not condemnation. The carnal mind cannot comprehend the spiritual meaning of it, so I thought I would describe the spiritual meaning for you.

Leviticus 14:36-57 (KJV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Then the priest shall command that they empty the house, before the priest go into it to see the plague, that all that is in the house be not made unclean: and afterward the priest shall go in to see the house:
[SUP]37 [/SUP]And he shall look on the plague, and, behold, if the plague be in the walls of the house with hollow strakes, greenish or reddish, which in sight are lower than the wall;
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then the priest shall go out of the house to the door of the house, and shut up the house seven days:
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And the priest shall come again the seventh day, and shall look: and, behold, if the plague be spread in the walls of the house;
[SUP]40 [/SUP]Then the priest shall command that they take away the stones in which the plague is, and they shall cast them into an unclean place without the city:
[SUP]41 [/SUP]And he shall cause the house to be scraped within round about, and they shall pour out the dust that they scrape off without the city into an unclean place:
[SUP]42 [/SUP]And they shall take other stones, and put them in the place of those stones; and he shall take other morter, and shall plaister the house.
[SUP]43 [/SUP]And if the plague come again, and break out in the house, after that he hath taken away the stones, and after he hath scraped the house, and after it is plaistered;
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then the priest shall come and look, and, behold, if the plague be spread in the house, it is a fretting leprosy in the house: it is unclean.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]And he shall break down the house, the stones of it, and the timber thereof, and all the morter of the house; and he shall carry them forth out of the city into an unclean place.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]Moreover he that goeth into the house all the while that it is shut up shall be unclean until the even.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]And he that lieth in the house shall wash his clothes; and he that eateth in the house shall wash his clothes.
[SUP]48 [/SUP]And if the priest shall come in, and look upon it, and, behold, the plague hath not spread in the house, after the house was plaistered: then the priest shall pronounce the house clean, because the plague is healed.
[SUP]49 [/SUP]And he shall take to cleanse the house two birds, and cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop:
[SUP]50 [/SUP]And he shall kill the one of the birds in an earthen vessel over running water:
[SUP]51 [/SUP]And he shall take the cedar wood, and the hyssop, and the scarlet, and the living bird, and dip them in the blood of the slain bird, and in the running water, and sprinkle the house seven times:
[SUP]52 [/SUP]And he shall cleanse the house with the blood of the bird, and with the running water, and with the living bird, and with the cedar wood, and with the hyssop, and with the scarlet:
[SUP]53 [/SUP]But he shall let go the living bird out of the city into the open fields, and make an atonement for the house: and it shall be clean.
[SUP]54 [/SUP]This is the law for all manner of plague of leprosy, and scall,
[SUP]55 [/SUP]And for the leprosy of a garment, and of a house,
[SUP]56 [/SUP]And for a rising, and for a scab, and for a bright spot:
[SUP]57 [/SUP]To teach when it is unclean, and when it is clean: this is the law of leprosy.

Verse 37 and 44

This scripture has been very uplifting to me, explaining a restoration after having been given the gift of faith. To me, it explains how the high Priest (Christ Jesus) has the power to clean the house (me) after welcoming Him in, to see the corruption of my fleshly nature, with vacant holes that need to be filled.
Verse 38

There were 7 days between Jesus entering Jerusalem, and His resurrection, 7 being the number, or letter “Zayin” (completeness) relating to food and nourishment, being the picture of a mattock (in the Hebrew pictorial) that prepares the ground, or heart. Relate to the parable of the sower and the seed.

Verse 40

Jesus was taken outside the city walls and killed with our unclean iniquity inside of Him.
Verse 41 and 45

He will take corruption away, in the process as He determines, on the cross outside the city walls.

Verse 46 and 47 compared with Paul’s writings

Romans 12:2 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Verse 48 and 52

He will baptize me and pronounce me clean before the Father.
Verse 49 and 51

Cedar wood=known for it’s strength and deep root, even though the cross was Dogwood as I understand, and it doesn’t rot as other woods do.
Scarlet=blood
Hyssop=it is mentioned in Psalm 51 of the Bible as a Spiritual Purifying Agent, as it is written: Cleanse me with HYSSOP; wash me and I shall be whiter than snow.
Verse 50

His flesh shall be the sacrifice of cleansing.

Verse 53
The living bird is likened unto the scapegoat in Leviticus 16:8 (Az’azel)

Even though I know I see very little of the entire picture God is showing to me, this law has been uplifting to me, being a believer in Christ Jesus, knowing he continues to clean me up, when I confess my sinful nature. It helps me to see, and understand what dying daily means. May God bless you with these thoughts that are so deep and profound.

chubbena · Mar 18, 2014

just-me said:

Isn't carnal mind when one has the choice he chooses evil? What is your take on EG's #107

CWJ · Mar 18, 2014

Hi there,

The term 'The Carnal Mind' refers to the mental activity: thinking, reasoning and imagining of 'The Old Nature' or 'The Natural Man'.

* We know that these 'thoughts', 'imaginings', 'reasonings' and 'thoughts' are the very opposite of God's thoughts (Gen. 6:5).

'And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth,
and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.'

* God has said, concerning the mind of the flesh, that:-

"My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways"
(Isa. 55:8)

'The Carnal Mind' and 'The Mind of the Flesh' are one and the same. (Rom. 8:7)

'Because the carnal mind is enmity against God:
forit is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit,
if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ,
he is none of His.'
(Rom 8:7-9)

* These terms all describe 'The Natural Man', and we are told in 1 Corinthians 2:14, that ... :-

' ... the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:
for they are foolishness unto him:
neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.'

In Christ Jesus
Chris

just-me · Mar 18, 2014

chubbena said:

This thread is not about choices, it's about not being able to be in subjection to the law. On the other hand, a carnal mind can chose to pick and choose certain scriptures to distort the truth and try to justify themselves. That's the devise of Satan which was clear during Adam and Eves time, and Jesus being tempted for 40 days.

I suppose that is a choice, but back to the original thread and scripture posing the problem of incapability, not conscious choices.

What makes it impossible for a carnal mind to be subject to the law?

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