What makes it impossible for a carnal mind to be subject to the law?

[just-me]

As I was thinking about the conversations yesterday, I thought that it would be good to see how many people who are reading this thread can see the spiritual relationship in the following passages. I think it will be good for all to comment, and compare thoughts on what they see in these scriptures, comparing spiritual with spiritual.

Exodus 12:1-2, Exodus 13:3-4, and Deuteronomy 16:1. “And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying, This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you. And Moses said unto the people, Remember this day, in which ye came out from Egypt, out of the house of bondage; for by strength of hand the LORD brought you out from this place: there shall no leavened bread be eaten. This day came ye out in the month “Abib.” Observe the month of “Abib,” and keep the passover unto the LORD thy God: for in the month of “Abib” the LORD thy God brought thee forth out of Egypt by night.”

John 3:7-10 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

Romans 8:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

John 8:36 (KJV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP]If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

 

[Humble1]

What makes it impossible for a carnal mind to be subject to the law, is the fact that we have a fallen nature.

 

[Grandpa]

I got a request. I clearly believe that there are at least 3 people (including yourself) who have contributed to this thread, that think that I am not a Christian, because I esteem the law beneficial for myself. Would you be so kind as to lead me to the Christian life?

1 Corinthians 9:19-23 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
[SUP]21 [/SUP]To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

Let me remind you that you haven't come into a jewish synagogue preaching that you are under law and how spiritual that is. You have come to Christians telling them that the spiritual view is to be under the law. Just wanted you to keep that in mind...

Ok. Steps to take to become a Christian and the Christian Life.

1. Mess up your life really bad. So bad that you have no hope of fixing it yourself. This may be the most important step. Make sure there are a few things in there that you are really ashamed of that you don't ever mention.

Ephesians 2:2-3
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

2. Decide that you are going to read the bible and clean up your life. Especially read the OT at this point. Try to become sinless before God. Go to church on Saturday afternoons, don't cut the corners of your beard, don't wear clothes with mixed fabrics, possibly shave your head depending on how hard core you are, don't eat pork or shell fish. All of it. Short of sacrificing animals... You are brand new at this, at this time, so you don't really have time to look down on people who don't do all of this yet. Depending on how long you stay in this stage you will probably start feeling quite superior to those who don't hold to all the law in the OT in a few weeks...

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

3. This stage is kind of sad. I'm not sure how many get to this stage. But its critical. You find out that you can't be perfectly sinless before God. You are broken hearted before Him. You really tried as hard as you could. Harder than any other human being in the history of the world. That's what it seems like. And so you cry out to Him. God you want me to be sinless but I can't do it. Will you help me? Nothing really happens for awhile. You keep crying out to Him and you just live life completely depressed. Your life is still pretty much a mess plus you can't even be a proper Christian. You have lost at everything. Self esteem is out the window. All your pride at how well you thought you could keep the commandments and how intelligent and strong you thought you were. It was all wasted. You are nothing. You can do nothing, except mess up your life and everyone else's around you. You are pretty much lost.

2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

4. This is the best stage and I wish I could have stayed there forever. The Lord doesn't leave us in our misery, broken before Him. He is just waiting. Waiting to see if you have faith in Him or faith in yourself. When He sees that you have no faith in yourself anymore that's when He shows you His Power. At first it is in little things so you don't get too freaked out. Oh My God He Is Absolutely Real !!! Before this you weren't 100% certain but now He has shown you. He has shown you that when you call on His Name He will show up and Help you. Exceedingly more than you can think or ask. This is when you are saved. You may have thought you were saved before but this is when the Lord proves it to you. You've relied on Him, had faith in Him and He has come through. He answers all your prayers. Even the ridiculous ones. Its not always with a yes but its an answer and this answer leads to even more and bigger understanding of Him and who He is. You can feel Him right next to you all day long. You actually feel sorry for everyone around you who hasn't experienced this. Your messed up life hasn't really changed much but now you have Victory and you know you are exceedingly blessed!!! It's going to be excellent from here on in, you just know it!!!

Psalm 28:6-9

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Blessed be the Lord, because he hath heard the voice of my supplications.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]The Lord is my strength and my shield; my heart trusted in him, and I am helped: therefore my heart greatly rejoiceth; and with my song will I praise him.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]The Lord is their strength, and he is the saving strength of his anointed.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Save thy people, and bless thine inheritance: feed them also, and lift them up for ever.

The bible is completely alive at this point. You actually understand exactly what the psalmists were talking about and what the Prophets were prophesying. Its really exciting!!!


5. This is the stage where you really start to learn about Him. You are so confident in the Lord and in your own Salvation that you decide to turn back and see your progress. This is a mistake but it is an important lesson. Even with all your knowledge and all your Salvation you still can't be sinless before Him by your own strength. Why Lord??? You saved me, I'm certain of it, and still I can't be perfect before you. I don't get it. I thought after I was saved I would be perfectly sinless before you... I thought when you cleansed me and changed me I would be perfect... But I still needed to learn. The Lord is not my stepping stool on the way to my own power. My lesson is/was that I must always rely on the Lord. No matter how awesome I think I am.

John 15:4-5

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Now I am not stuck in the mire of my own sinning all the time. But I still must rely on Him to overcome temptation. I'm not perfect but I know where my help is. Its like when Peter was walking on the water. When I look back at the Law I see that I'm not perfect but sin still dwells in me and I start to sink. But when I look to the Lord and His Help and Salvation, He picks me back up and sets me on the path. Because Truly, without Him I can do nothing. So why in the Wide World of Sports would I ever go back to being entangled in the yoke of bondage when I know where my Victory is? I keep my eyes on Jesus and He grows the fruit of Salvation in my Life. I abide in Him and I don't rely on my own strength and will to understand everything and keep myself perfect. We don't battle against carnal things but against powers and principalities that we don't have much understanding of and can't see. We must rely on our Guide.


So the super short answer is Abide in Christ. Don't rely on self but put your faith in Him.

When the enemy tells me I don't deserve to be in heaven I know that its the truth. I don't deserve it. But my answer will always be "Lets go talk to the King and see what He says".

I don't know if you understand all of this. But you should probably be able to see that if you go back to the law to try and follow it by your own strength and flesh you have fallen from His Grace. Your faith is saying that you don't need Him but that you can do it by yourself. The good thing is that when a person abides in Christ, He grows the fruit of the Spirit in their lives and it is through these fruit that the Law is actually kept.

 

[just-me]

Let me remind you that you haven't come into a jewish synagogue preaching that you are under law and how spiritual that is. You have come to Christians telling them that the spiritual view is to be under the law. Just wanted you to keep that in mind...

"the spiritual view is to be under the law?"
Sight the post where I said those words please, so everybody can read my quote. Being subject to the law is not the same as being under it. I posted that relationship of Greek word meanings 3 times but evidently you haven't read them. I appreciate all that you wrote, and the time it took to do that, but you failed to be as Paul becoming like one who is under the law in order to save me, a person who is under the law as you assume. Being as one under the law, you haven't convince me with all that you wrote because you didn't become like me, one who is under the law. I am asking you to treat me as if I am under the law like the traditions of the Jews, not the other way around as if I am preaching to the Jews. I'm asking you to do with me the same as Paul did with those who are under the law.
1 Corinthians 9:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

I agree with the scriptures that you posted however. Let me give some of the law that id neglected these days, and compare it with traditions then and now.

Zechariah 14:16 This will be during the Millennial reign of Christ.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Let’s give some insight to the law and grace that comes from the same God who is Almighty, perfect, holy, and unchanging. The “Feast of Tabernacles” (part of the law) is a feast for understanding the protection, mercy, and grace that God gives His children, and includes the thankful heart of a Christian’s walk in our present day, so it is well worth mentioning. It is a time set aside for remembering, self-denial, rejoicing, understanding, and thanksgiving.

1 Corinthians 5:8 commemorates feast of unleavened bread that starts with Passover.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

It might be coincidental that our Thanksgiving Day compares to the fall harvest just as the “Feast of Tabernacles.” Thanksgiving used to be a day set aside to thank God for His sustenance. I am disappointed that today we celebrate the day after as “Black Friday” for the purpose of Christmas shopping, and now we have also added a “black Thursday.” Today it’s a day of self-centeredness, and is called “Turkey Day.” Speaking of turkeys, are they kosher? Could turkeys be a relative of chickens? I don’t want to get into eggs and bunnies either, and call it Passover, so I’ll just pass over this ridiculousness after stating that this is no different than the Hebrew Pharisaical traditions that were minus the sincerity of the heart. Talk about being carnal!
The word “feast” actually means “holy day.” In parallel, we now classify special celebrated days as Holidays. Some people want us to say “Happy Holidays” during Christmas. Those that want this term clearly desire Jesus to be separated from Christmas. Instead of relating Christ to Christmas the phrase “Happy Holidays” is much better to them. Some would much rather have reindeer, Santa Claus, and snowmen. It is Ironic because what they are actually saying is “have a happy and memorable Holy Day.” If they only knew, they certainly wouldn’t want that either. So by not wanting Christ to be remembered, they are actually endorsing something they don’t want. Talk about turning things upside down! That reminds me of Romans 1:28. “And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient.” Anyway, “feast” is a holy day, set aside for God’s children to come together and focus on the reason for the feast. The Hebrew word “feast” also relates to the word “victim” which makes it a solemn time for sacrifice. As God’s children, we should not only focus on the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, but also focus on loving God, and keeping His charge as written?
Matthew 22:37-40
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the first and great commandment.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Deuteronomy 11:1
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway.
Amos 5:25-27 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Have ye offered unto me sacrifices and offerings in the wilderness forty years, O house of Israel?
[SUP]26 [/SUP]But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Therefore will I cause you to go into captivity beyond Damascus, saith the LORD, whose name is The God of hosts.
Acts 7:42-43 (KJV)
[SUP]42 [/SUP]Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness?
[SUP]43 [/SUP]Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.
Revelation 17:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Thank you for your input. It is good to know where others stand on their beliefs. You said we do not have to have to do sacrifices and offerings. You are right that physically, with grain and animals, are no laonger needed, and that's why I focused on the new temple being and built by Jesus Christ. Yet in the New, we still sacrifice and offer in parable, or allegory to know the heart that is acceptable unto God.

This is the old.
Hebrews 9:8-9 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

You focused on the temple but that is not what the context is - the old covenant wherein there were sacrifices and offerings is no more. The OT is there for our learning . . . the OT is where we find all types of "types and shadows" of better things to come.

This is the new.
Romans 12:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

1 Peter 2:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

How do we present our bodies as living sacrifices acceptable to God - NOT by following the law but by not being conformed to this world but transformed by the renewing of our minds so that we that we can know that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. We are to put off the old man (the flesh) and put on the new man/inward man (Spirit) created in Christ Jesus unto good works.

Galatians 4:21-28 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Tell me you that desire to be under the law - from what I have read you desire to be under the law and therefore a child of the bondmaid. (I don't think that I have misunderstood you but if I have, I apologize).

1 John 2:7-8 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

I hope and pray that you can understand the old is dark, and the new is light. Viva la the difference in comparison. By not studying the old, we cannot fully appreciate the new.

Oh I fully appreciate the NEW . . . without putting myself in the OLD. I realize what it cost God and what it cost Christ to allow me to standfast in the liberty where Christ has made me free and I am not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Thank you for praying for my understanding, prayer never hurts.

John 2:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

Exodus 15:22-25 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]So Moses brought Israel from the Red sea, and they went out into the wilderness of Shur; and they went three days in the wilderness, and found no water.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And when they came to Marah, they could not drink of the waters of Marah, for they were bitter: therefore the name of it was called Marah.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And the people murmured against Moses, saying, What shall we drink?
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And he cried unto the LORD; and the LORD shewed him a tree, which when he had cast into the waters, the waters were made sweet: there he made for them a statute and an ordinance, and there he proved them,

John 4:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

As I said types and foreshadows of things to come - better things. We now have the gift of holy Spirit, we have God in Christ in us and out of our belly shall flow rivers of living water.

 

[Grandpa]

"the spiritual view is to be under the law?"
Sight the post where I said those words please, so everybody can read my quote. Being subject to the law is not the same as being under it. I posted that relationship of Greek word meanings 3 times but evidently you haven't read them. I appreciate all that you wrote, and the time it took to do that, but you failed to be as Paul becoming like one who is under the law in order to save me, a person who is under the law as you assume. Being as one under the law, you haven't convince me with all that you wrote because you didn't become like me, one who is under the law. I am asking you to treat me as if I am under the law like the traditions of the Jews, not the other way around as if I am preaching to the Jews. I'm asking you to do with me the same as Paul did with those who are under the law.
.

I'm not going to come to you as one under the law. You claim to be a Christian. I am going to come to you like Paul came to the Galatians.

Are you a Christian or not???

 

[faroukfarouk]

You focused on the temple but that is not what the context is - the old covenant wherein there were sacrifices and offerings is no more. The OT is there for our learning . . . the OT is where we find all types of "types and shadows" of better things to come.

How do we present our bodies as living sacrifices acceptable to God - NOT by following the law but by not being conformed to this world but transformed by the renewing of our minds so that we that we can know that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. We are to put off the old man (the flesh) and put on the new man/inward man (Spirit) created in Christ Jesus unto good works.

Tell me you that desire to be under the law - from what I have read you desire to be under the law and therefore a child of the bondmaid. (I don't think that I have misunderstood you but if I have, I apologize).

Oh I fully appreciate the NEW . . . without putting myself in the OLD. I realize what it cost God and what it cost Christ to allow me to standfast in the liberty where Christ has made me free and I am not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Thank you for praying for my understanding, prayer never hurts.

As I said types and foreshadows of things to come - better things. We now have the gift of holy Spirit, we have God in Christ in us and out of our belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Ms. peacefulbeliever:

Briefly, I think a lot of problems arise from any assumption that the New Testament believer is supposedly under the law.

It is hard to follow what Paul says to the Galatians and the Ephesians without concluding that the New Testament believer is actually under grace, and gloriously so.

Blessings.

 

[just-me]

I'm not going to come to you as one under the law. You claim to be a Christian. I am going to come to you like Paul came to the Galatians.

Are you a Christian or not???

You have labeled me as not being a Christian in my estimation, because I do as the Pharisees did, being under the law. One can't be under the law and a Christian at the same time. I am however subject to the law.

 

[just-me]

As I said types and foreshadows of things to come - better things. We now have the gift of holy Spirit, we have God in Christ in us and out of our belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Shadows are cast because of light. In darkness there is no shadow. A shadow is cast because something is there. Take the substance away, and there is to shadow. Take the light away and there is no shadow. You cannot have one without the other.

 

[Brother_Don]

in one parents house something might be aloud, then the child goes to another parents house and its not aloud. i think its the same in the Kingdom some things aren't aloud.

 

[just-me]

You focused on the temple but that is not what the context is - the old covenant wherein there were sacrifices and offerings is no more. The OT is there for our learning . . . the OT is where we find all types of "types and shadows" of better things to come.

If the man made temple is gone, so are the physical sacrifices and offerings, but the promises of God remain as covenant, from the beginning of time until the end. Has Jesus actually replaced His statues? Or is everything ordain from the beginning until Jesus death been done away with? No.

Revelation 22:12-13 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

John 17:4-5 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Is not the past, present, and future a divine plan from the beginning, called salvation?

John 1:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Notice, was, was, and was. past tense to the present tense during the time of John. All that is, and will be is relevant.

Acts 15:15-16 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. That's Paul saying what to not do.

lol. Look at the worlds religions. The world says you must work to earn. must follow rules and regulation. God of the bible is the ONLY God and religion who says man is totally unworthy, Totally condemned. Yet I love them so much, I WILL TAKE THEIR PUNISHMENT FOR THEM, and SAVE THEM.

Who is being conformed to the world. But those preaching laws, and dos and do nots. That is the worlds thinking Not Gods.

To be transformed is to be humble to admit you are totally unworthy, and will continue to be unworthy until the day you die, and even then you are unworthy. That way you do not get puffed up and proud of yourself and all your good deeds. But you will allow God to work in you to perform what HE NEEDS DONE, and not your small interpretation of what you THINK he wants done.

when men have done this, they have totally screwed things up. And they continue to do so.

To offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God - this is your spiritual act of worship. That's Paul saying what to do.
There is still much to do and do not do in the so called NT to love God and to help oneself. If one is not good at helping himself, how could he help others?
One can and will be perfect and be sinless by the cleansing of His blood and by obedience to the Holy Spirit because Yeshua Paul and Peter would not lie.

One is MADE HOLY and blameless by the blood of Christ. (this is called justification)

One will never BE HOLY and BLAMELESS by following a set of rules. This is a lie. We will NEVER live up to the perfect righteousness God demands, that is WHY THE LAW WAS GIVEN. so there would be NO EXCUSE.

But people look at their interpretation of the law. think they are holy and righteous, And miss the WHOLE part of the law. Which no man but Christ has ever done.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yet Paul said that he still did. Unless you consider yourself a far better Christian than Paul, there is a lesson there to be learned.

You do not think I learned it?

I do still sin, The law still condemns me. Like Paul, I KNOW I am a wretched man.

Thats the problem with people like you and Just-Me. You do not see the law for what it was intended. You see it as proving you are Holy And Righteous, And have earned you way in. Paul did not think so. Nor do I.

But hey, I wish both of you the best of luck following all your rules..Me, I will follow Christ. But never be proud enough to think I ever made it. If I ever get there, I will fall a hard fall. As many a person has done.. Satan wants us to think that, because it is there when we are weak. We better ALWAYS understand. I Am unworthy, and I will NEVER be worthy. COntinue to run the race (even though we will never finish it, God will finish it for us.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Almighty LORD will speak to the hearts of His children. in my opinion if the heart is telling us we don't need to obey the Word, then it's not the Holy Spirit in the heart. The commandments are not hard to follow, unless we make it hard. So to say people that teach obeying law is putting a burden on people, is goofy, its not a burden its a blessing when obeyed. Misery likes company and wants to keep us down. Living by the law doesn't tell us we won't have bumps in the road, but even with the bumps and potholes, its easy street, it might feel like an obstacle course at times, but The Almighty brings us through. Christ Jesus is the way, even when the way looks bumpy.

dude, You should look at scripture.

Scripture says that we should not place a burden on ANYONE which even Israel and the disciples could not do.

The comands of God are DO THIS, DO THAT, BE THIS TYPE OF PERSON etc etc.

it is not do not do this and that. Those laws were given to show us our just condemnation. Not so we can actually do them,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You have labeled me as not being a Christian in my estimation, because I do as the Pharisees did, being under the law. One can't be under the law and a Christian at the same time. I am however subject to the law.

If you are still subject to the law. Then by the creeds and words of the law. You are condemned by the law.

so yu should think about what you claim. If you are subject to the law. You are subject to keep it completely or you will die in your sin.

Gal 5: 5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free,[SUP][a][/SUP] and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. [SUP]4 [/SUP]You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

And of course. the passage you do not even like to acknowledge

[SUP]13 [/SUP]For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”[SUP][b][/SUP]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

in one parents house something might be aloud, then the child goes to another parents house and its not aloud. i think its the same in the Kingdom some things aren't aloud.

the term be all things to all people comes to mind.

If your in one place. Be as they are so as not to offend, But what may be allowed in one area, might be frowned upon in another, Even if you LOVE to do the thing, Sacrifice yourself for the sake of the people you are with. so you may show them the love of God.

Peter had to learn this the hard way

 

[just-me]

God has never broken any covenant He ever established. The wine is the blood, and the covenant is the bottle that holds the content relating to the words in every covenant man has broken. Our Father in heaven holds true to His promises. The carnal man breaks covenant, and despite all the promises we have said we would keep, and didn't, the foreknowledge of God knew from the beginning of time how it all needed to work step by step, until all was fulfilled, restoring mankind into His everlasting Kingdom through Christ Jesus. The carnal mind cannot acknowledge, and agree that Jesus taught the Old Testament, and its contents that are contained in the previous covenants of God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God has never broken any covenant He ever established. The wine is the blood, and the covenant is the bottle that holds the content relating to the words in every covenant man has broken. Our Father in heaven holds true to His promises. The carnal man breaks covenant, and despite all the promises we have said we would keep, and didn't, the foreknowledge of God knew from the beginning of time how it all needed to work step by step, until all was fulfilled, restoring mankind into His everlasting Kingdom through Christ Jesus. The carnal mind cannot acknowledge, and agree that Jesus taught the Old Testament, and its contents that are contained in the previous covenants of God.

The carnal mind also can not understand that the Law was given for a purpose. to lead us to Christ.

It tries to fool itself into thinking they are saved, but continues to subject itself to the law which NO ONE CAN FULFILL.

They think they are honoring God by subjecting themselves to the law. When in reality, if they are going to subject themselves to the law. they can not pick and chose which laws they subject themselves to and which they are not obligated to subject themselves to.l They are obligated to subject themselves to the whole law. In which case. they are doomed. Because the law condemns them. and as paul said, they have fallen from grace,

 

[homwardbound]

Now I'm not trying to start an argument concerning the law. The point is to define the carnal mind to see if we have those attributes when reading scripture. Then if we see that within ourselves, to ask God through Christ Jesus, to clean up our act. We are to love Him with our mind, striving to understand the truth and relevance for today, about all that is written in the Bible since the beginning of time.

Romans 8:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Bottom line one is either of the flesh or the Spirit of God this war has gone on since the fall, and no one can see the kingdom without being born again of the Spirit of God. Now Christ came to give us this born again Spirit by the resurrection from Father it is given to those that beleive, no second guessing. It is finished as Christ said it is in John 19:30 he fulfilled all, the Law and Prophets that prophesied about his coming to redeem us and put us under new Law, the laws of love to all
Left the disciples with the message of reconciliation to anyone that believes this propitiation to be done are forgiven, it is done in them as it is in Father through Son, even if one does not believe this it is what it is
New life in Spirit of truth is given and that is how we walk the same as Christ walked in faith, trust, and leading of Father to love Fathers way, not man's. Shown best in 1 cor. 13:1-3 as man's way, and God's way is 1 Cor. 13:4-13

 

[just-me]

If you are still subject to the law. Then by the creeds and words of the law. You are condemned by the law.

so yu should think about what you claim. If you are subject to the law. You are subject to keep it completely or you will die in your sin.

Gal 5: 5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free,[SUP][a][/SUP] and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. [SUP]4 [/SUP]You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

And of course. the passage you do not even like to acknowledge

[SUP]13 [/SUP]For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”[SUP][b][/SUP]

And this scripture is one you don't want to acknowledge in the correct manner. If you claim to not being subject to the law, Paul's words are very convicting, showing all who read what kind of mind that you have.
Romans 8:6-7 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

I agree hardily with the Scripture you present.

Deuteronomy 10:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Colossians 2:11 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: