Call on the Name of the Lord be Saved?

p_rehbein · Mar 19, 2014

above here, and in your first comment you said:

Originally Posted by svedbygrace

No lost person dead in sin can believe on Christ. The Gospel is hid to those who are lost and they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4

If you read my comment, you will see this is what I am addressing...........Jesus said the same in John 3:16.......

followjja · Mar 19, 2014

Donkeyfish07 said:

I suspect that you are aware that Jesus criticized the Pharisees often. He called them:

hypocrites in Matt 15:7, Matt 23:13, 15, 23, 25, 27, 29 A favorite term Jesus used for Pharisees often.
blind guides Matt 23:16, 24
blind fools Matt 23:17
blind men Matt 23:19
serpents broods of vipers, 23:33

Sounds to me that he thouht little of them.

Donkeyfish07 · Mar 19, 2014

p_rehbein said:

I went and read through some of them, though it does say he is not Christian that doesn't mean he will never be one

. I don't agree with everything he has said (especially about Paul's status as an Apostle) but he is asking some very good questions (Like should we obey all leaders?). Someone who wants to learn more about Christianity shouldn't be shunned should they?

SeaBass · Mar 19, 2014

svedbygrace said:

Psa 80:18 does not chnage undo or conradict Paul hen Paul said one believes/confesses to obtain/unto salvation. Thre was no such thing in the OT to call upon the name of the Lord for remisson of sins. CHrist had not yet shed His blood so they cold not have complee remission of sins/justification.

In the context of Psalms 80, David is using a metaphor by calling Israel a vine, verse 8, a vine that God brought out of Egypt, planted, nourished and the vine grew abundantly, verses 9-11. Yet the vine became corrupt, it corrupted itself, turning against God where the vine was then being plucked, devoured, destroyed, (destroyed by other nations) verses 12-16 because it was without God's care. Verse 14 is the vine's plea for God to return to the vine, to nourish it, but the coruption of the vine kept God from doing it. Verse 18,19 they plea for God's nourishment so they can thrive as they did before but not until the vine turns to God will God turn back to nourish the vine.

There is nothing in Psa 80 that supports the Calvinistic idea that one has to be first regenerated by God before he can obey God. That idea puts fault on God. Israel was God's chosen people whom God nourished until they became backslidden and in v18 was praying for God to come back to nourish them but they had to first change before God.

Eph 2:5,6 man was dead is sin, he had no way to be perfectly justified before God But God through Christ provided a way for man to be perfectly justified before God. Those that obey the gospel bybeing water baptized, buried with Christ and "raised up with Him", verse 6, have their sins remitted > justified.

followjja · Mar 19, 2014

Donkeyfish07 said:

I'm not sure what your getting at here as I understand the verse and the Chapter in question. What point do you wish to make or question do you want to ask regarding it? Shortly after the part you quoted he continues to say

"[SUP]7 [/SUP]But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. [SUP]8 [/SUP]What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ"

Important part to keep in mind regarding that section of Phillipians. Both the verse you posted and the verses I posted are part of a larger context.

Why do you think Paul said that he "was blameless under the law"? as already quoted

p_rehbein · Mar 19, 2014

[h=1]Acts
9[/h]
1 .) And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
2 .) And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
3 .) And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4 .) And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5 .) And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
6 .) And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
7 .) And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
8 .) And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.
9 .) And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.
10)And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
11 .) And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
12 .) And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.
13 .) Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
14 .) And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
15 .) But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
16 .) For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

Those who deny Biblical Truth are (as was Paul before his salvation) KICKING AGAINST THE PRICKS........

(and there is at least one here who will deny the Biblical Truth found in the above Scriptures.......

SeaBass · Mar 19, 2014

p_rehbein said:

Calling upon the name of the Lord is being water baptized.

Again, in 2:21 Peter quoted Joel's prophecy "And it shall be, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" and this prophecy was fullfilled in verse 38:

Acs 2:21-----------call upon the name of the Lord>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saved
acts 2:38----------repent and be baptized>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>remisson of sins

See also Acts 22:16 when Saul was baptized he was calling upon the name of the Lord. Matt 7:21 calling upon the name of the Lord is more than just an oral utterance, but "calling upon the name of the Lord" means DOING what the Lord has said, Lk 6:46 "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" The Lord say to rpent, Lk 13:3,5 and be baptized,Mk 16;16 and one is not calling upon the name of the Lord until they repent and are bptized as the Lord said to do.

Donkeyfish07 · Mar 19, 2014

followjja said:

Certainly, I'm aware of all of them. Consider Phillipians 6 again, the same area we were discussing

"[SUP]3 [/SUP]For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh— [SUP]4 [/SUP]though I myself have reasons for such confidence.If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: [SUP]5 [/SUP]circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee;"

Then he continues to say:

"But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. [SUP]8 [/SUP]What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ"

Donkeyfish07 · Mar 19, 2014

p_rehbein said:

People have had issues regarding the things Paul wrote ever since he wrote them. 2 Peter 3:15-16 are great verses to bring into the discussion anytime a Paul related controversy shows up as well. I'm sure you already know that, just wanted to bring them up

And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."

p_rehbein · Mar 19, 2014

SeaBass said:

Calling upon the name of the Lord is being water baptized.

Again, in 2:21 Peter quoted Joel's prophecy "And it shall be, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" and this prophecy was fullfilled in verse 38:

Acs 2:21-----------call upon the name of the Lord>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saved
acts 2:38----------repent and be baptized>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>remisson of sins

See also Acts 22:16 when Saul was baptized he was calling upon the name of the Lord. Matt 7:21 calling upon the name of the Lord is more than just an oral utterance, but "calling upon the name of the Lord" means DOING what the Lord has said, Lk 6:46 "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" The Lord say to rpent, Lk 13:3,5 and be baptized,Mk 16;16 and one is not calling upon the name of the Lord until they repent and are bptized as the Lord said to do.

do not want to derail this thread............but no.........

Donkeyfish07 · Mar 19, 2014

followjja said:

Just to make sure it's in context, Paul says "touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless." The whole reason he mentions this is because he is speaking against putting confidence in the flesh.

"[SUP]3 [/SUP]For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh"

then he continues to say:

"[SUP]4 [/SUP]though I myself have reasons for such confidence.If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more"

The whole point here is to trust in God, not the flesh.

p_rehbein · Mar 19, 2014

Acts 22:17) And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;
18 .) And saw him saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me.
19 .) And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee:
20 .) And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him.
21 .) And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.

Is it hard to "kick against the pricks?"

SeaBass · Mar 19, 2014

p_rehbein said:

BUt you have not proven otherwise.....

Acts 22:16 "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on his name." (which you omitted for some reason in Post #92)

For a thread about "calling on the name of the Lord" WITHOUT baptism being discussed would be derailing the thread.

p_rehbein · Mar 19, 2014

Acts 24:10) Then Paul, after that the governor had beckoned unto him to speak, answered, Forasmuch as I know that thou hast been of many years a judge unto this nation, I do the more cheerfully answer for myself:
11 .) Because that thou mayest understand, that there are yet but twelve days since I went up to Jerusalem for to worship.
12 .) And they neither found me in the temple disputing with any man, neither raising up the people, neither in the synagogues, nor in the city:
13 .) Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.
14 .) But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
15 .) And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
16 .) And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men.

Is it hard to "kick against the pricks?"

p_rehbein · Mar 19, 2014

[h=1]Acts
26[/h]
1 .) Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Thou art permitted to speak for thyself. Then Paul stretched forth the hand, and answered for himself:
2 .) I think myself happy, king Agrippa, because I shall answer for myself this day before thee touching all the things whereof I am accused of the Jews:
3 .) Especially because I know thee to be expert in all customs and questions which are among the Jews: wherefore I beseech thee to hear me patiently.
4 .) My manner of life from my youth, which was at the first among mine own nation at Jerusalem, know all the Jews;
5 .) Which knew me from the beginning, if they would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee.
6 .) And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God unto our fathers:
7 .) Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.
8 .) Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?
9 .) I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth.
10 .) Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them.
11 .) And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto strange cities.
12 .) Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests,
13 .) At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.
14 .) And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
15 .) And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
16 .) But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17 .) Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18 .) To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
19 .) Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20 .) But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
21 .) For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me.
22 .) Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
23 .) That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Is it hard to "kick against the pricks?"

p_rehbein · Mar 19, 2014

SeaBass said:

The intended purpose of this thread published by it's Author is to denounce the Apostle Paul as an Apostle of Jesus Christ.

Given that...........in my opinion to discuss the role of water baptism with regards to salvation is not for this thread........

SeaBass · Mar 19, 2014

p_rehbein said:

It would be more than denial of Paul's apostleship, but a denial of what calling upon the name of the Lord is all about.

p_rehbein · Mar 19, 2014

SeaBass said:

His purpose is to do just that though............and I don't want to be involved in a serious discussion concerning water baptism on a thread whose Author intends to deny Jesus Christ.............For Jesus Himself CHOSE Paul to be His messenger.....Those who deny the Apostleship of Paul, deny Christ.

cfultz3 · Mar 19, 2014

svedbygrace said:

If one is saved (delivered from death) before they believe the Gospel concerning the Son, then there is no need to believe that Gospel for salvation, seeing that they are already saved apart from accepting that Gospel.

However, if one chooses to believe, then the Gospel is not hidden from them. By coming to the realization of the Gospel being true and desiring Jesus to be their Lord, one then repents and THEN are saved from condemnation.

It is basic human nature for a repenting person to first realize the error of their ways before they believe what was once an opposing view to them.

SeaBass · Mar 19, 2014

cfultz3 said:

Jesus: he that believeth not shall be condemned - Mk 16:16
svedbygrace: he that believeth not shall be saved - Calvinism

You make a good point, an unbeliever does not even believe he is lost much less thinks he has any error in his life. An unbeliever would not beiieve there is a God in heaven, Satan in hell, not even believe in a heaven to gain or a hell to avoid

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