What makes it impossible for a carnal mind to be subject to the law?

[peacefulbeliever]

Dr. Robert Thiel does a much better job with this than I could...

"What Was Nailed to the Cross?

Since all scripture is given by the inspiration of God so that Christians should be complete (2 Timothy 3:16-17), it is wise to look at more than one verse to determine what, for example, was nailed to the cross.

There is only one only scripture that uses the "nailed it to the cross" expression (AV/NKJ), it is Colossians 2:13-14, in which Paul states,


"And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross".

We will look at what it does and does not say.

First though, let's look at what the last chapter of the last book of the Bible teaches:


"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city" (Revelation 22:14, NKJV throughout unless otherwise noted).

Since it is only "those who do His commandments...{who} have the right to enter...the city" (Revelation 22:14), the ten commandments could not be "contrary to us". Actually, it is only those who will not keep the ten commandments that are denied access. Revelation specifically shows that those who break one of at least four of the ten commandments will be outside God's city (Revelation 22:15).

So then, if the ten commandments were not "nailed to the cross," what was?

Look again at what the Bible actually says (two translations):


14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross (Colossians 2:14, NKJV)

14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.. (Colossians 2:14, NASB)

The handwriting of requirements (often also called the hand-writing of ordinances) or certificate of debt was wiped away and nailed to the cross.

Which requirements were wiped out?

Please understand that the expression "the handwriting of requirements" (cheirógrafon toís dógmasin) is a Greek legal expression that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay--it does not signify the laws that are to be obeyed--only the penalty. It is only through the acceptance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that the penalty was wiped out ("the handwriting of requirements"). But only the penalty, not the law!

Even some Protestant commentators realize this is so. Notice what Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible states about Colossians 2:14:


Whatever was in force against us is taken out of the way. He has obtained for us a legal discharge from the hand-writing of ordinances, which was against us (v. 14), which may be understood,

1. Of that obligation to punishment in which consists the guilt of sin. The curse of the law is the hand-writing against us, like the hand-writing on Belshazzar's wall. Cursed is every one who continues not in every thing. This was a hand-writing which was against us, and contrary to us; for it threatened our eternal ruin. This was removed when he redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us, Gal 3:13. (from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.).

In addition, let us look at the Greek term exaleipho translated as "wiped out" in Colossians 2:14:


NT:1813
exaleipho (ex-al-i'-fo); from NT:1537 and NT:218; to smear out, i.e. obliterate (erase tears, figuratively, pardon sin) (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)


In other words, exaleipho has to do with wiping out sin. This is also confirmed in Acts 3:19 where Peter also uses the term exaleipho, which is translated as "blotted out" below:


19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.

Hence, it is sin and the related penalties that are to be blotted or wiped out. And the penalties could vary from "being unclean to the evening" (Leviticus 11:24-28) to making an offering (Leviticus 5:5-6) to being "cut off from his people" (Leviticus 7:27) to the death penalty (Exodus 31:14).

This is also confirmed elsewhere in the New Testament:


13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (Galatians 3:13).

The curse of the law is related to the penalty. And Jesus paid it.


But what about the law of God? Was the law of God to be wiped out? No:


17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill (Matthew 5:17)

While some erroneously think that Jesus, for example, did away with the Ten Commandments by how He led His life, that most certainly was not the view of the early Christians who continued to keep them (see also The Ten Commandments and the Early Church).

Furthermore, remember that the Bible clearly teaches that sin is lawlessness:


Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. (I John 3:4-5).

Notice that Paul wrote:


Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? (Romans 6:1-2).

Thus the New Testament makes clear that the law of God continues, thus it was not nailed to the cross or somehow wiped out.

The Bible, however, also shows that the requirements of the Levitical priesthood (Hebrews 9:1,6-10) sometimes called the law, which were part of the penalty of sin, were blotted out.

And why?


"For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins...By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus once for all" (Hebrews 10:4,10).

Jesus' one sacrifice was and is sufficient--we do not have to sacrifice animals any more!

Another requirement (which is related) would be the death penalty of sin, as "the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23) or other specific ceremonial penalties associated with the Old Testament statutes (such as making a sin offering, being put outside the camp, or washing).

For those who wish to look them up, perhaps most of the statutes in the Old Testament are listed in the following chapters: Exodus 20-24; Leviticus 16-27; Numbers 18-19, 27-30, 35-36; and Deuteronomy 12-18."

Which Laws Are Done Away? Which Remain?

(sigh) The ten commandments are carried through to the church epistles but all the Levitical law is NOT. If you walk in love you will fulfill the ten commandments - Jesus Christ summed up the ten into two. . . . .
I have never said we should not obey God.

Nailed it to the cross - In the culture of the time any debts owed by a man were known by all in his village or town. The Elders at the gate hang the list of the person's creditors at the gate making the person owing the debts as a dishonorable man - including his whole family. He could pay a little at a time on that debt but it would not be removed from the gate until paid in full. Someone could pay off his debts for him and it would be as his own payment. The benefactor pays - the court receives the receipt and hands it to the elders of the gate. They read it, fold the list in half, glue it together showing that all that was against that man is closed in. No more condemnation to that man and his family. The elders write his name on the outside and nail the list back on the wall.
(Paraphrased - Orientalisms of the Bible - Volumes 1 & 2 by Bishop K.C. Pillai, Indian Orthodox Bishop, Biblical Scholar)

That is what Jesus Christ did - he paid our debts - he paid the price - he redeemed us and reconciled us back to God by blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us - that which was contrary to us.

 

[homwardbound]

Thanks to you I studied the story of the young man with Yeshua again and I've got the picture. There's nothing wrong with keeping the commandments to enter life and keep following Yeshua to eternal life. Nothing matters now.

Because by trust in Father we receive the mercy he gave us through Christ and we don't even think about we just love as we are loved
The deeper one sees this the deeper one loves in response and no one loves deeper than what they see they are loved

1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us

Ephesians 3:16 that he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
Ephesians 3:17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Ephesians 3:18 may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

 

[homwardbound]

So the Ten Commandments are holy but humans are carnal. That does away with the Ten Commandments how?

I never said the Ten
Commandments are done away with, I have said and stand firm on Christ fulfilled them for me and you and you and all the world forgiving us all trespasses so we can pass from death to life in the Spirit and worship here right now today in Spirit and truth. praising God for this. Being too busy in praising and thanking and worshiping there is no time to harm anyone and just love all as God has shown us through Son, who took all the suffering in our stead
So today we can count all things good or bad aa a joy in the Spirit of God, watching the fire burn out our dross, by our asking this to be done in us. For he came to give us the Holy Ghost with fire. This fire is up to us to ask Father to turn on the oven to burn out our flesh. And then trusting God to do as you asked not wanting to do wrong
praying you get this. I am saying be sure to ask I did and my flesh puberty got burned out, my ______________________ cut off and it hurt, and I know God hurt over doing this for I could not control lust of the flesh, and did not asccept it either so God allowed it be to be cut off through Foreigners Gang-green going on two years ago. Now I did not thank God at first, but now I do. I do not have that in the way anylonger.

 

[chubbena]

The letter of the Law is not the Spirit of the Law from Father

It's getting clearer or muddier I don't know.
What I do know is,
a. The 10 commandments were spoken by Yahweh, were written down by Himself on stone slabs, then recorded by Moses in OT.
b. The other commandments were spoken by Yahweh and recorded by Moses in OT.
c. The written law i.e. OT is in effect the spoken word. The letter of the Law could not mean the written law.
d. Man does not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.
e. Yeshua was the Word. He was Yahweh speaking.
f. The Word became flesh.
g. Man tried to kill the Word and thought they succeeded but the Word was raised again by the Father.
h. He is the "ever" living Word.
John who penned in the beginning was the Word and the Word became flesh also wrote this in 12 John 1:7 many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
I always wonder what this verse means until I relate the Word with "Jesus Christ". The Word came in the flesh. The mouth of God who spoke all the words recorded in OT.
To say OT is obsolete is in effect saying the Word did not come in the flesh.
To say OT is dead is in effect killing the Word. But the Word has conquered death.
To say Jesus has replaced the Word is in effect preaching another Christ.
If it isn't for you and others who provoke thoughts, I would never figure this out.

 

[homwardbound]

It's getting clearer or muddier I don't know.
What I do know is,
a. The 10 commandments were spoken by Yahweh, were written down by Himself on stone slabs, then recorded by Moses in OT.
b. The other commandments were spoken by Yahweh and recorded by Moses in OT.
c. The written law i.e. OT is in effect the spoken word. The letter of the Law could not mean the written law.
d. Man does not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.
e. Yeshua was the Word. He was Yahweh speaking.
f. The Word became flesh.
g. Man tried to kill the Word and thought they succeeded but the Word was raised again by the Father.
h. He is the "ever" living Word.
John who penned in the beginning was the Word and the Word became flesh also wrote this in 12 John 1:7 many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
I always wonder what this verse means until I relate the Word with "Jesus Christ". The Word came in the flesh. The mouth of God who spoke all the words recorded in OT.
To say OT is obsolete is in effect saying the Word did not come in the flesh.
To say OT is dead is in effect killing the Word. But the Word has conquered death.
To say Jesus has replaced the Word is in effect preaching another Christ.
If it isn't for you and others who provoke thoughts, I would never figure this out.

The truth is the same from day one, the mix up came from flesh which is what is at enmity with God
Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Seek from Father through Son what this means and I am sure Father will show you the truth in this for all believers have Father in the Spirit as their teacher to all; truth that sets one free

It has always been Father's love and Mercy to us that started at Adam and Eve. God had Mercy and clothed them, then set them out of the Garden for them to learn on their own how bad they need Father in Father's love and Mercy, Which was completed in Son Christ.Our debt paid in full.
So in seeing this, are we going not give Mercy? I see it this way, I will only give love out and Mercy according to what I see as done for me by God through Son

 

[john832]

(sigh) The ten commandments are carried through to the church epistles but all the Levitical law is NOT.

So you mean some of the Levitical Law is not carried over? Or do you mean none of the Levitical Law is carried over?

Please help me understand your meaning. Thanks.

 

[john832]

Really, please put it up all of it from 7:1 and lets dissect it. in context then I am interested to see truth as you see it. I am sure it will help me in staying free, thanks

I have doen this several times, here it is in this thread...

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...e-carnal-mind-subject-law-28.html#post1455105

 

[peacefulbeliever]

So you mean some of the Levitical Law is not carried over? Or do you mean none of the Levitical Law is carried over?

Please help me understand your meaning. Thanks.

Let me ask you - Do you still need to do sacrifice an offering for peace? Do you still need to do sacrifice for thanksgiving? Do you still need to slaughter a perfect lamb every year and spread it's blood upon your doorpost?
To me the answer is NO. . . because of what Jesus Christ did for me I can go boldly to the throne of grace and talk to God myself. Jesus Christ fulfilled all that when he died on that cross and God raised him to life so that now he is a mediator of the new testament/covenant - he is my high priest.

I would rather you read the scripture and obtain your understanding. It is there in black and white. I have posted many scriptures.

 

[chubbena]

Amen Brother and David saw afar off and saw through what was coming by Christ and believed God, so he was able to say in confidence by Faith
Psalm 100:4 Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.

And Job in confidence by Faith stated this:
Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

All by Faith and just read Hebrews 11, by Faith and all by this Faith did works through Faith

David saw Yeshua afar off yet he witnessed discipline, salvation and grace in faith and yet in the law. I don't think he was boasting in the law in Psalm 18 or in Psalm 94 but in real joy while he was able to keep His law. On the other hand, he was in deep godly sorrow after he realized he sinned in Psalm 32 & Psalm 51.
He is a perfect example of no one can keep the law perfectly and yet he said he will teach transgressors His way while he's still in repentance.
Pretty hypocritical in today's standard eh?
Pretty immature in Christ eh?
Regardless, he's loved and if only I'm as bad as him.

 

[just-me]

Let me ask you - Do you still need to do sacrifice an offering for peace? Do you still need to do sacrifice for thanksgiving? Do you still need to slaughter a perfect lamb every year and spread it's blood upon your doorpost?
To me the answer is NO. . . because of what Jesus Christ did for me I can go boldly to the throne of grace and talk to God myself. Jesus Christ fulfilled all that when he died on that cross and God raised him to life so that now he is a mediator of the new testament/covenant - he is my high priest.

I would rather you read the scripture and obtain your understanding. It is there in black and white. I have posted many scriptures.

You know better than to ask questions of that sort.

2 Timothy 2:23-26 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
[SUP]25 [/SUP]In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

You know better than to ask questions of that sort.

2 Timothy 2:23-26 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
[SUP]25 [/SUP]In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

He asked so I asked him those questions so that he figure things out for himself and see that we are not under Levitical Law. I don't think the questions were foolish. If that was foolish or offensive to him - let him say so - and I will apologize to him. Thanks.

 

[just-me]

He asked so I asked him those questions so that he figure things out for himself and see that we are not under Levitical Law. I don't think the questions were foolish. If that was foolish or offensive to him - let him say so - and I will apologize to him. Thanks.

You know that no one offers animal sacrifice who believe Jesus Christ is the final one. John has never said he did, and just the opposite in fact. Maybe you don't know him that well yet. Not even the non Messianic Jews do that today.

Diverting a little. I wrote this several months ago. This is in Leviticus also. After reading it tell me what you see in comparison as a shadow of things to come, and then expound, if you would, on the validity of our Fathers foreknowledge and why he created things as He did, and if in fact all avenues of the law in the old lead to Christ. One more thing. Is salvation a way of life dying daily to you, or is it a thing of the past to you?


Leviticus 14:36-57 (KJV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Then the priest shall command that they empty the house, before the priest go into it to see the plague, that all that is in the house be not made unclean: and afterward the priest shall go in to see the house:
[SUP]37 [/SUP]And he shall look on the plague, and, behold, if the plague be in the walls of the house with hollow strakes, greenish or reddish, which in sight are lower than the wall;
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then the priest shall go out of the house to the door of the house, and shut up the house seven days:
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And the priest shall come again the seventh day, and shall look: and, behold, if the plague be spread in the walls of the house;
[SUP]40 [/SUP]Then the priest shall command that they take away the stones in which the plague is, and they shall cast them into an unclean place without the city:
[SUP]41 [/SUP]And he shall cause the house to be scraped within round about, and they shall pour out the dust that they scrape off without the city into an unclean place:
[SUP]42 [/SUP]And they shall take other stones, and put them in the place of those stones; and he shall take other morter, and shall plaister the house.
[SUP]43 [/SUP]And if the plague come again, and break out in the house, after that he hath taken away the stones, and after he hath scraped the house, and after it is plaistered;
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then the priest shall come and look, and, behold, if the plague be spread in the house, it is a fretting leprosy in the house: it is unclean.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]And he shall break down the house, the stones of it, and the timber thereof, and all the morter of the house; and he shall carry them forth out of the city into an unclean place.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]Moreover he that goeth into the house all the while that it is shut up shall be unclean until the even.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]And he that lieth in the house shall wash his clothes; and he that eateth in the house shall wash his clothes.
[SUP]48 [/SUP]And if the priest shall come in, and look upon it, and, behold, the plague hath not spread in the house, after the house was plaistered: then the priest shall pronounce the house clean, because the plague is healed.
[SUP]49 [/SUP]And he shall take to cleanse the house two birds, and cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop:
[SUP]50 [/SUP]And he shall kill the one of the birds in an earthen vessel over running water:
[SUP]51 [/SUP]And he shall take the cedar wood, and the hyssop, and the scarlet, and the living bird, and dip them in the blood of the slain bird, and in the running water, and sprinkle the house seven times:
[SUP]52 [/SUP]And he shall cleanse the house with the blood of the bird, and with the running water, and with the living bird, and with the cedar wood, and with the hyssop, and with the scarlet:
[SUP]53 [/SUP]But he shall let go the living bird out of the city into the open fields, and make an atonement for the house: and it shall be clean.
[SUP]54 [/SUP]This is the law for all manner of plague of leprosy, and scall,
[SUP]55 [/SUP]And for the leprosy of a garment, and of a house,
[SUP]56 [/SUP]And for a rising, and for a scab, and for a bright spot:
[SUP]57 [/SUP]To teach when it is unclean, and when it is clean: this is the law of leprosy.

Verse 37 and 44

This scripture has been very uplifting to me, explaining a restoration after having been given the gift of faith. To me, it explains how the high Priest (Christ Jesus) has the power to clean the house (me) after welcoming Him in, to see the corruption of my fleshly nature, with vacant holes that need to be filled.
Verse 38

There were 7 days between Jesus entering Jerusalem, and His resurrection, 7 being the number, or letter “Zayin” (completeness) relating to food and nourishment, being the picture of a mattock (in the Hebrew pictorial) that prepares the ground, or heart. Relate to the parable of the sower and the seed.

Verse 40

Jesus was taken outside the city walls and killed with our unclean iniquity inside of Him.
Verse 41 and 45

He will take corruption away, in the process as He determines, on the cross outside the city walls.

Verse 46 and 47 compared with Paul’s writings

Romans 12:2 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Verse 48 and 52

He will baptize me and pronounce me clean before the Father.
Verse 49 and 51

Cedar wood=known for it’s strength and deep root, even though the cross was Dogwood as I understand, and it doesn’t rot as other woods do.
Scarlet=blood
Hyssop=it is mentioned in Psalm 51 of the Bible as a Spiritual Purifying Agent, as it is written: Cleanse me with HYSSOP; wash me and I shall be whiter than snow.
Verse 50

His flesh shall be the sacrifice of cleansing.

Verse 53
The living bird is likened unto the scapegoat in Leviticus 16:8 (Az’azel)

Even though I know I see very little of the entire picture God is showing to me, this law has been uplifting to me, being a believer in Christ Jesus, knowing he continues to clean me up, when I confess my sinful nature. It helps me to see, and understand what dying daily means. May God bless you with these thoughts that are so deep and profound.

 

[Grandpa]

Here is a question for you...

Who was it that gave the words to Moses and the Prophets?

Yes. I understand that it was the Lord Jesus, who is the Word, that was given to Moses and the Prophets.

The question you might not have asked is why was the law given to Moses to give to the Jews?

Exodus 20:19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

What does the Lord Jesus say?

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

If you are following after law you have listened to Moses. You may be an excellent pupil of Moses, the best in generations.

The only thing is that Law that Moses gave is supposed to show you who listen to Moses that you cannot perform the work that God Does. In all of your working have you ever approached being perfect like your Father in Heaven is Perfect? no. sadly. no.

But when you are ready to turn from your work perhaps you will turn to the One who has been waiting to guide you. The Good Shepherd. The One who gives you the comforter, and a new heart that begins to love just as He first loved us.

Have you ever thought about how ridiculous it is to Love someone just because they command that you love them? Have you ever thought how impossible it is to love someone just by the sheer strength of your own will?

But when you find out that this person has given you comfort, peace, joy, strength, Victory over your enemies and grows the Fruit of Righteousness in your lives we find out that He Loves us more than we can understand. When we find out how much He has given us and how much He Loves us then it is quite easy to love Him. It comes naturally then. Then you trust the one you Love because you know He is God and He leads you into the paths of Righteousness. You don't trust your own will and strength any more because when you did all it did was get you entangled in a big mess. You Trust in Him because He Straightened it all out. Not because of your work. Because you believed He would. Not because of your wisdom or your strength at obeying commandments. Because of His Love. He loved us first.

Its great to know all these instructions that God has given. Its even greater to be given the Holy Spirit, and the ability to start walking in those instructions, from God Himself. The most important part of the keeping of the commandments is the ability to keep them. Which is a gift from God!! Recieved the same way we recieve all His Gifts. By Grace through Faith.

The ability to keep them. The fruit of the Spirit.

What are you without the fruit of the Spirit?

1 Corinthians 13:1-10
[SUP]1[/SUP]Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned,[SUP][a][/SUP] but have not love, it profits me nothing.[SUP]4 [/SUP]Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;
[SUP]5 [/SUP]does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For we know in part and we prophesy in part.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

What does the Lord say about this?

John 10:1-11
[SUP]1[/SUP]Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

I love Gods Word. All of it.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

You know that no one offers animal sacrifice who believe Jesus Christ is the final one. John has never said he did, and just the opposite in fact. Maybe you don't know him that well yet. Not even the non Messianic Jews do that today.

Yes I know that but apparently he didn't or he wouldn't have asked me if the Levitical Law was done away. Basically the whole Levitical Law is nothing but instructions to make oneself clean - Jesus Christ cleanses us now.

Diverting a little. I wrote this several months ago. This is in Leviticus also. After reading it tell me what you see in comparison as a shadow of things to come, and then expound, if you would, on the validity of our Fathers foreknowledge and why he created things as He did, and if in fact all avenues of the law in the old lead to Christ. One more thing. Is salvation a way of life dying daily to you, or is it a thing of the past to you?

Leviticus 14:36-57 (KJV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Then the priest shall command that they empty the house, before the priest go into it to see the plague, that all that is in the house be not made unclean: and afterward the priest shall go in to see the house:
[SUP]37 [/SUP]And he shall look on the plague, and, behold, if the plague be in the walls of the house with hollow strakes, greenish or reddish, which in sight are lower than the wall;
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then the priest shall go out of the house to the door of the house, and shut up the house seven days:
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And the priest shall come again the seventh day, and shall look: and, behold, if the plague be spread in the walls of the house;
[SUP]40 [/SUP]Then the priest shall command that they take away the stones in which the plague is, and they shall cast them into an unclean place without the city:
[SUP]41 [/SUP]And he shall cause the house to be scraped within round about, and they shall pour out the dust that they scrape off without the city into an unclean place:
[SUP]42 [/SUP]And they shall take other stones, and put them in the place of those stones; and he shall take other morter, and shall plaister the house.
[SUP]43 [/SUP]And if the plague come again, and break out in the house, after that he hath taken away the stones, and after he hath scraped the house, and after it is plaistered;
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then the priest shall come and look, and, behold, if the plague be spread in the house, it is a fretting leprosy in the house: it is unclean.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]And he shall break down the house, the stones of it, and the timber thereof, and all the morter of the house; and he shall carry them forth out of the city into an unclean place.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]Moreover he that goeth into the house all the while that it is shut up shall be unclean until the even.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]And he that lieth in the house shall wash his clothes; and he that eateth in the house shall wash his clothes.
[SUP]48 [/SUP]And if the priest shall come in, and look upon it, and, behold, the plague hath not spread in the house, after the house was plaistered: then the priest shall pronounce the house clean, because the plague is healed.
[SUP]49 [/SUP]And he shall take to cleanse the house two birds, and cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop:
[SUP]50 [/SUP]And he shall kill the one of the birds in an earthen vessel over running water:
[SUP]51 [/SUP]And he shall take the cedar wood, and the hyssop, and the scarlet, and the living bird, and dip them in the blood of the slain bird, and in the running water, and sprinkle the house seven times:
[SUP]52 [/SUP]And he shall cleanse the house with the blood of the bird, and with the running water, and with the living bird, and with the cedar wood, and with the hyssop, and with the scarlet:
[SUP]53 [/SUP]But he shall let go the living bird out of the city into the open fields, and make an atonement for the house: and it shall be clean.
[SUP]54 [/SUP]This is the law for all manner of plague of leprosy, and scall,
[SUP]55 [/SUP]And for the leprosy of a garment, and of a house,
[SUP]56 [/SUP]And for a rising, and for a scab, and for a bright spot:
[SUP]57 [/SUP]To teach when it is unclean, and when it is clean: this is the law of leprosy.

Verse 37 and 44

This scripture has been very uplifting to me, explaining a restoration after having been given the gift of faith. To me, it explains how the high Priest (Christ Jesus) has the power to clean the house (me) after welcoming Him in, to see the corruption of my fleshly nature, with vacant holes that need to be filled.
Verse 38

There were 7 days between Jesus entering Jerusalem, and His resurrection, 7 being the number, or letter “Zayin” (completeness) relating to food and nourishment, being the picture of a mattock (in the Hebrew pictorial) that prepares the ground, or heart. Relate to the parable of the sower and the seed.

Verse 40

Jesus was taken outside the city walls and killed with our unclean iniquity inside of Him.
Verse 41 and 45

He will take corruption away, in the process as He determines, on the cross outside the city walls.

Verse 46 and 47 compared with Paul’s writings

Romans 12:2 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Verse 48 and 52

He will baptize me and pronounce me clean before the Father.
Verse 49 and 51

Cedar wood=known for it’s strength and deep root, even though the cross was Dogwood as I understand, and it doesn’t rot as other woods do.
Scarlet=blood
Hyssop=it is mentioned in Psalm 51 of the Bible as a Spiritual Purifying Agent, as it is written: Cleanse me with HYSSOP; wash me and I shall be whiter than snow.
Verse 50

His flesh shall be the sacrifice of cleansing.

Verse 53
The living bird is likened unto the scapegoat in Leviticus 16:8 (Az’azel)

Even though I know I see very little of the entire picture God is showing to me, this law has been uplifting to me, being a believer in Christ Jesus, knowing he continues to clean me up, when I confess my sinful nature. It helps me to see, and understand what dying daily means. May God bless you with these thoughts that are so deep and profound.

Okay . . yes it is deep and very hard to relate to since I have never had to perform a cleansing ritual. Those verses are the law of the leper - so it made me think of the following:

Matthew 8:2-4 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.
Matthew 10:5-8 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
Luke 17:12-19 And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off: And they lifted up theri voices and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us. And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that as they went, they were cleansed. And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back and with a loud voice glorified God, and fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan. And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine? There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger. And he said unto him, Arise, go they way: thy faith hath made thee whole.

Thank you for your post; it was very interesting to see the relationship of those verses to now. Jesus Christ is interwoven in the fabric of the written word from Gen. 3:15 to Revelation.

 

[just-me]

Thank you for your post; it was very interesting to see the relationship of those verses to now. Jesus Christ is interwoven in the fabric of the written word from Gen. 3:15 to Revelation.

That's it sis. The law is good to study for us, and the more we dig into it with the the leadership of the Holy Spirit, we start to see a divine plan, of a Great and Wonderful Almighty God. It all leads to our Savior in one way or another, and gives us recognition of the fleshly nature, and so on. I look forward to back and forth sharing with you and others as time passes. So in my estimation, the law is a great help for His children to see His dynamic nature i.e. His name. GBU big time

 

[homwardbound]

As i see this is the answer to the op ?

It is the flesh that we all are originally born with from the physical womb and in need to be born from above in the Spirit of truth from Father through Son's finished work at the cross, mainly resurrected Christ is where the new life in Spirit is at and given to us from Father, and we are thus listening and doing all out of the Love and Mercy Father has given us through Son
Death had to be first though to bring in a new covenant of Love above Law that so easily besets unredeemed flesh

 

[homwardbound]

With obedience comes mercy. vain worship is an abomination unto God.

1 Samuel 15:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

Proverbs 17:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Better is a dry morsel, and quietness therewith, than an house full of sacrifices with strife.

Isaiah 1:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.


Isaiah 1:10-15 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

And thanking God for God's Mercy given to me and all who beleive God, God has accepted all that do beleive God, God knowing who does and who pretends, loving every minute of that. So not all is vanity is it. Only flesh is vanity, and the Spirit of Father is life, peace and righteousness that we are invited to participate in through Son, who by his death cleansed us to Father to get new life in the Spirit of Father and be as we are made in Spirit and truth connected to Father for eternity, Hallelujah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[chubbena]

As i see this is the answer to the op ?

It is the flesh that we all are originally born with from the physical womb and in need to be born from above in the Spirit of truth from Father through Son's finished work at the cross, mainly resurrected Christ is where the new life in Spirit is at and given to us from Father, and we are thus listening and doing all out of the Love and Mercy Father has given us through Son
Death had to be first though to bring in a new covenant of Love above Law that so easily besets unredeemed flesh

Just so there's no misunderstanding here the old covenant was of as much love as the new and that those of the old were also saved by the new through the same faith in Christ - His love has never changed.

 

[homwardbound]

I have doen this several times, here it is in this thread...

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...e-carnal-mind-subject-law-28.html#post1455105

Do you not understand if one is dead to law one is freed to serve God as his bond servant in love as what Romans 7 is being explained dead to law carnal law and are by death freed to marry another, and this other is Christ all of him?

 

[homwardbound]

David saw Yeshua afar off yet he witnessed discipline, salvation and grace in faith and yet in the law. I don't think he was boasting in the law in Psalm 18 or in Psalm 94 but in real joy while he was able to keep His law. On the other hand, he was in deep godly sorrow after he realized he sinned in Psalm 32 & Psalm 51.
He is a perfect example of no one can keep the law perfectly and yet he said he will teach transgressors His way while he's still in repentance.
Pretty hypocritical in today's standard eh?
Pretty immature in Christ eh?
Regardless, he's loved and if only I'm as bad as him.

It just takes one sin to be guilty and know ones need. Yet the more one has been forgiven, the more one forgives
The same is the more one knows how deep they are loved by God and God alone the more deeper one loves vback in response to God

1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
Ephesians 3:16 that he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
Ephesians 3:17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Ephesians 3:18 may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;