Prenuptial agreement

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Donkeyfish07

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Of course, in many states, prenups don't carry much weight with the divorce judge which is yet another reason to have one in those states.
I've heard it said once, that a videotaped pre-nup has never been overturned. Not once. Many that were in writing have been though. How true it is I'm not sure, but your not even completely safe with simply a written one. Even if it is Iron Clad, you may still have to go to court over it. lol. There are many reasons I decided not to marry, but if I had to pick the absolute biggest one.....it would be because of how absurd the legalities are.
 
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IloveyouGod

Guest
Elizabeth619 I like yours and some other people's decent posts too. No rude comments, you are not trying hard to convince people with your opinion and forcing your opinion on them, you are not accusing or judging others, you are not attacking others because they disagree with your own opinion, but rather respecting other opinions. That's a behavior of a true Christian people. :)




I understand that you are educated, and you want everyone to know that you are simply by some of the remarks you have made throughout this forum. By the way I am proud you are so smart. GOOD FOR YOU! Yet from my understanding this is a thread asking personal views and opinions. If you do not like my views that is fine. I don't post things to meet others approval, and I am glad you consider being called "pompous" a compliment, because you sure have proved you are many many times. :)

I do not agree with prenups. Therefore I will never get one.

I do however know what it is like to be a woman in her 30s with a child, unemployed and the father runs off. I know how child support works, and I know how trusting in the legal system for anything doesn't guarantee the results you may want or desire. It doesn't matter if it is a legal document before marriage or after. In my case I was never married, but the father still had the responsibility to his child. I also know how playing the victim role in tough situations never helps anything. When an individual accepts that bad things can and will happen in their life and learns to move forward and TRUST IN GOD AND NOT THE LEGAL SYSTEM TO HELP THEM things turn out well.
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
You have every right to negotiate your own marriage terms with a prospective spouse. If not accepting a prenup is non-negotiable to you, then he has to either marry you on those terms or find someone else. This isn't about forcing anyone to do anything. This is about the criteria each of us have in what amounts to the second most important decision of our lives.

My criteria is that I would never marry without protecting myself in the event my prospective spouse chose to divorce me at some point in the future in this era of easy no fault divorce. I prefer a prenup but can manage around it using divorce trust financial instruments IF I live in one of the few states that respect them.

If I don't live in one of those states, and am not keen on less protective substitutes such the Delaware statutory trust, for example, then we are not getting married which is my God-given choice.

It is moral for a woman to choose or refuse marriage with or without a prenup and it is moral for a man to choose or refuse marriage with or without a prenup.

You are not more moral for refusing to marry without a prenup and I'm not immoral for not marrying you as a result. We both have the freedom to make the decision if we will marry and under what terms.

Marriage contracts are very biblical and have a long history in Judeo-Christianity. The Ketubot (Marriage Agreements) and Kiddushin (Betrothal) tractates in the Nashim (“women” or “wives”) portion of the Mishnah contain the most definitive information on laws that governed Jewish marriage in antiquity.

In ancient Israel, when a young man desired to marry a young woman in ancient Israel, he would prepare a contract (or covenant) to present to the young woman and her father at the young woman's home. The contract showed his willingness to provide for the young woman and described the terms under which he would propose marriage.

In modern Western society, women now negotiate directly for themselves exactly like men do. Two people either determine the terms of their marriage contract (e.g. prenup) based on their respective criteria or do nothing and let the state determine the terms for their marriage by default.

I don't like the state's terms, so we either negotiate alternative terms we both believe in, marry someone else that does, or don't marry at all. It's that simple.


I understand there are certain cases that needs this agreement and that some people here are comfortable doing it. But still, for me, I do not believe in it, neither will I do it. And if it came down to it, then my future husband n' I has to talk A LOT about it, n' we both have to be convinced, meaning, he has to give me a REALLY good explanation why he wants to do it because I don't have kids from another marriage n' I'm still not seeing ANY other "Good" reason for me to sign such agreement because like how Christian74 said, it will definitely create a seed of doubt in my heart and mind that won't be sitting well with me.
 
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biscuit

Guest
i'm constantly amazed at your ability to make such sweeping, wildly sterotypical and offensive statements about entire populations of women. isn't it just as possible that there are good christian women and worldly-valued women everywhere?

perhaps one ought to be careful using the acid-tripping wilson boys as your "female culture" touchstone : )

i'm a bit surprised it took you so long to find this thread. i had a feeling that wherever "poor helpless men" were being robbed of their fortune by evil women, you wouldn't be far behind.

instead, my observations have yielded the ugly truth that both men and women seem to lose in divorce proceedings. divorce doesn't seem to benefit anyone, financially or otherwise.

ironically, the one thing that could help to prevent either party from an unfair judgment is something you are against.

it makes me wonder whether that's because there would be no one for you to blame.



i would never consider a mother who "slaps hard" her daughter as a woman to be lauded for her "values" and i can't help but wonder why you use her as an example. i guess since the violence was initiated upon the wife by the mother, as opposed to the husband, you find this acceptable?

is this your example of "old school" women? violent and argumentative? it sounds to me that "old school mother" is just the kind of stubborn and explosive woman that you men are supposed to be afraid of being taken to the cleaners by.

maybe that kind of "old school parenting" shouldn't be held up as the ideal, either.

i've read posts where you reference the "old school mothers/women". by your own description, your example doesn't sound like a woman of God.

perhaps both men and women should put away such notions in favor of seeking a Godly husband or wife.
Just accept the fact that you are a "feminist" and do not like the idea that men are fighting back against the political injustices in our court system for merely being a man. I am approaching 61 and never married, have no children, pay no child support or alimony and never been to jail over a woman. So I have absolutely no scars when it comes to women. As a matter of fact they love to death and I love them also. Believe it or not, some women don't like me because I escaped the crap pit with them without being burned. Like men, there are different types of women: good & bad. A golden Christian rule you should learn is to never judge anyone which you are doing with me. I presently work for a legal firm that is 90% women and we get along terrific for the last 15 years. There is a decent percentage of women who like the traditional ways, especially the men. Hmmm!! no wonder these young women find me interesting. LOL !!
 
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DuchessAimee

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2011
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Because of the large percentage of women that falsely claim infidelity, rape, and abuse in divorce court: I would never agree to such a clause.

Women have learned that making false allegations of domestic violence is a quick, cheap and easy way to get rid of their husbands, get most of his assets and exclusive custody of the kids as well.

A man would be a fool to set himself up for that by signing any contract that had such a clause in it.

Part 1: DVI The Inside Story Part 1 - YouTube
Part 2: DVI The Inside Story Part 2 - YouTube


For the record, I'm not one of those trashy females. Secondly, there would have to be solid proof such as photos and/or video. And finally, that clause would go BOTH WAYS.
 

Misty77

Senior Member
Aug 30, 2013
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Just accept the fact that you are a "feminist" and do not like the idea that men are fighting back against the political injustices in our court system for merely being a man. I am approaching 61 and never married, have no children, pay no child support or alimony and never been to jail over a woman. So I have absolutely no scars when it comes to women. As a matter of fact they love to death and I love them also. Believe it or not, some women don't like me because I escaped the crap pit with them without being burned. Like men, there are different types of women: good & bad. A golden Christian rule you should learn is to never judge anyone which you are doing with me. I presently work for a legal firm that is 90% women and we get along terrific for the last 15 years. There is a decent percentage of women who like the traditional ways, especially the men. Hmmm!! no wonder these young women find me interesting. LOL !!
Awww, maybe you're mean to us because you're all alone. I think you just need a good hug from a feminist. Then maybe you can be nice to women.
Screen Shot 2014-03-21 at 12.40.14 PM.png
 
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biscuit

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Awww, maybe you're mean to us because you're all alone. I think you just need a good hug from a feminist. Then maybe you can be nice to women.
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LOL !! I am at peace and we know which posters are carry the "bitterness" of their bad past relationships here on CC.:)
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
I know that you are not. :)

Of course such a clause is your criteria and, in my opinion, you are biblically entitled to have such a clause as a part of your criteria. But I am biblically entitled not to sign such a clause too.

So in our case, if we were prospective marriage partners negotiating terms of marriage, I would choose not to sign such a clause even though I have been 100% celibate for the past 26 years... lol.

My criteria is different than your criteria for a marriage prenup on that point even though my behavior aligns with your criteria in life and has since the day I began following Christ so many years ago.

You would need to weigh that and see if twenty-six years of faithfulness to God with respect to my sex life justified you modifying your criteria with respect to such a clause or not.

I can say honestly that my criteria is influenced by a person's past, present, and projected future. This goes for both my professional life and my personal life.

A woman that has lived a godly life and not shown inclination to hurt men for fun, spite, and/or profit and who has positive future goals is going to get a much better "deal" with respect to a marriage contract than the alternative.

In either case, of course, I would only marry if I were in love with her and believed God was bringing us together.


For the record, I'm not one of those trashy females. Secondly, there would have to be solid proof such as photos and/or video. And finally, that clause would go BOTH WAYS.
 

DuchessAimee

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2011
3,922
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Y'all are acting like children. You're insulting one another because...? We should be able to give our opinion(s) without worry or fear.



So out of love... Knock. It. Off.
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
Y'all are acting like children. You're insulting one another because...? We should be able to give our opinion(s) without worry or fear. So out of love... Knock. It. Off.
^ Cosigned by me! :)
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
I'm of the opinion that if two people cannot determine the criteria for their marriage, then they aren't ready to get married.
 
Sep 6, 2013
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Understand that the National Center for Health Statistics which bases it's reports on actual records not surveys states the percentage of women who initiated divorce proceedings in the U.S. has reached almost 80%. Only about 20% of men file for divorce presently. And for separations, the percentage is even higher.
That is a sad statistic. I feel that I should point out, though, that the one who files isn't always the one who ended the marriage. Many women are abandoned by their husbands, who never bother to file due to lawyer fees or apathy or whatever else. In order to protect their children, receive child support, or even just legally finish what their husbands already started, women often must spend the money on lawyers and file themselves. Just something to consider when viewing "who filed" statistics.

(No, I did not file, but that's only because my husband was interested in marrying his "other". Texas has no legal separation option, so the only way to establish child support is to file for divorce. Sad.)


I guess Hollywood is Hollywood ... but Southern women are generally the opposite of Western women.
Interesting. I would have thought that the opposite of a Southern woman was a Northern woman. :rolleyes:
 
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biscuit

Guest
That is a sad statistic. I feel that I should point out, though, that the one who files isn't always the one who ended the marriage. Many women are abandoned by their husbands, who never bother to file due to lawyer fees or apathy or whatever else. In order to protect their children, receive child support, or even just legally finish what their husbands already started, women often must spend the money on lawyers and file themselves. Just something to consider when viewing "who filed" statistics.

(No, I did not file, but that's only because my husband was interested in marrying his "other". Texas has no legal separation option, so the only way to establish child support is to file for divorce. Sad.)




Interesting. I would have thought that the opposite of a Southern woman was a Northern woman. :rolleyes:
It depends on how wide your North is.;)
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
The divorce judge asked, "Mrs. Lucas, have you lost your mind?"

Part 1: Divorce Court: Ungrateful Woman 1 of 2 - YouTube
Part 2: Divorce Court: Ungrateful Woman 2 of 2 - YouTube

I have to disagree with the judge's closing remark; however. If I work to the age of fifty or so and acquire a net worth of x and then get married and eleven years later my wife files for a no fault divorce: she should NOT get half of ALL my assets and there is NO way I would ever allow myself to be in that situation.

Understand, I am NOT obligated by God to put myself in that situation.

With a prenup, I can change the state's lopsided terms and posit that half of my assets acquired from the marriage date (and only those assets) are equally divided in the event of a divorce and that is a non-negotiable criteria for marriage that I have for many reasons not the least of which is that it comports to my moral conscience with respect to fairness and goodwill.
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
Great point! I would like to see what that statistic is but I'm not aware of any agency that collects it.

That is a sad statistic. I feel that I should point out, though, that the one who files isn't always the one who ended the marriage. Many women are abandoned by their husbands, who never bother to file due to lawyer fees or apathy or whatever else. In order to protect their children, receive child support, or even just legally finish what their husbands already started, women often must spend the money on lawyers and file themselves. Just something to consider when viewing "who filed" statistics.
 

just_monicat

Senior Member
Jan 1, 2014
1,284
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Just accept the fact that you are a "feminist" and do not like the idea that men are fighting back against the political injustices in our court system for merely being a man. I am approaching 61 and never married, have no children, pay no child support or alimony and never been to jail over a woman. So I have absolutely no scars when it comes to women. As a matter of fact they love to death and I love them also. Believe it or not, some women don't like me because I escaped the crap pit with them without being burned. Like men, there are different types of women: good & bad. A golden Christian rule you should learn is to never judge anyone which you are doing with me. I presently work for a legal firm that is 90% women and we get along terrific for the last 15 years. There is a decent percentage of women who like the traditional ways, especially the men. Hmmm!! no wonder these young women find me interesting. LOL !!
i'm sorry that you feel judged by my words.

the truth is, you have a well-established history of using a number of threads to bemoan your friends' unfortunate experiences with being unfairly treated by the evil women they were once married to. i too have seen many injustices of the legal system, but even more injustices perpetrated upon one another through their selfish actions. my referencing your posting history seems hardly judgmental. and i won't even start on your generalizations.

i must admit, your posts have done one thing for me. you've made me respect my father a great deal more. when he divorced my mother, he (largely willingly) walked away with almost nothing. he faithfully paid child support and alimony until my mother remarried. it wasn't until i read a post you'd written awhile back just how much i admired him for never bemoaning, ridiculing, or attacking my mother for the way their finances were divided. not once has once has he attempted to portray himself as a victim.

the older i get, the more i realize how easily both genders fail one another.

you may call me a feminist when i can call you a misogynist. deal? : )
 
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AgeofKnowledge

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I should state; however, that I am not against a reasonable predetermined lump sum "sweetener."

In other words, half of the assets acquired since the marriage plus a predetermined in writing lump sum which would be invested into a financial vehicle and gain interest go to my spouse in the event of a divorce.

Understand; however, that it's still financially more desirable to simply outlive me within marriage because at the point of my death (assuming no foul play) she would get everything ;).
 

just_monicat

Senior Member
Jan 1, 2014
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I should state; however, that I am not against a reasonable predetermined lump sum "sweetener."

In other words, half of the assets acquired since the marriage plus a predetermined in writing lump sum which would be invested into a financial vehicle and gain interest go to my spouse in the event of a divorce.

Understand; however, that it's still financially more desirable to simply outlive me within marriage because at the point of my death (assuming no foul play) she would get everything ;).
you're so romantic! : )

that's funny. i guess the "lump sum sweetener" feels a bit like a bribe to marry. unless of course, the plan was for her to forfeit one's ability to support herself, i.e. stay-at-home wiving.

hmmmmm.
 
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BananaPie

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At this injunction, I'll settle for 3.14 kisses, mooseburger and a cool beard.
Hold the cheese.
:p

Okay, dear ones, let's keep the threads cool-N-peachy.
Remember, we can read English around here, so hold your French. :)
 
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