Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[SeaBass]

I followed a little bit of this and I'm not an expert here at all but if one loves the Lord, with all his/her heart, how could one not serve him? Those who are in the body of Christ and are actively working with God in their faith want to serve, and they do. So if you're just sitting around when your neighbor needs a hand, or if you're living a wanton lifestyle of greed and power while others are suffering and you proclaim Christ - well, you never knew him.

My issue has been one cannot be saved without ever doing any works at all, and you example confirms that.

You posted "...but if one loves the Lord, with all his/her heart, how could one not serve him? Those who are in the body of Christ and are actively working with God in their faith want to serve, and they do." and this is NOT "faith only" but is loving obedience that earns you NOTHING.

 

[SeaBass]

Okay please don't take this as me being rude.
But I'm gonna have to stop talkin about this.
I'm really getting confused...
I know what I think and how I feel.
But I can't explain it. And seems to me when I try I make things worse. And I really don't wanna say something that is wrong or confuse anyone else..
I'm sorry. Please forgive me.

Are you a "faith only" proponent?

 

[SeaBass]

Wow, sorry; I'm amazed at this attempt to try to build a doctrine of works salvation on this...

I am not the one trying to use the thief to prove anything.

 

[SeaBass]

A Christian is already saved. He is a part of Jesus Christ's Body (Eph. 5:30).


If a Christian does not do good works after getting saved, well then that Christian will have nothing to show for at the Judgment Seat of Christ and in eternity. He will still be saved; yet so as by fire (1 Cor. 3:15).

And he will be known in eternity as the Christian who never did anything for Christ. And what a tragedy that would be.

dcontroversial said those "produce works" are done to prove one is saved. So if one does not do those "produced works" then the lack of those works prove he was NOT saved.

So is your position that AFTER one becomesa Christain he does not have to do any works at all, no good works Eph 2:10, no walking in the light, 1 Jn 1:7? If a Christian sees a fellow Christian in great need, he does not have to do good works to help his fellow Christian and still be saved? (see Matt 25:32ff before answering )

 

[Pres19]

Are you a "faith only" proponent?

I believe through faith we are saved.
But don't believe faith alone will get you far.
If a man loves God and has faith but lives a life of sin without care to do good or please God does he get to go to heaven?
You have to live your life in a way that's pleasing to God.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I believe through faith we are saved.
But don't believe faith alone will get you far.
If a man loves God and has faith but lives a life of sin without care to do good or please God does he get to go to heaven?
You have to live your life in a way that's pleasing to God.

I think we can safely ignore any efforts (if they are such) to turn us away from simple faith in the Lord Jesus, whom we love to serve because we are saved, and depending 100% on Him in His wondrous grace. Blessings.

 

[danalee]

My issue has been one cannot be saved without ever doing any works at all, and you example confirms that.

You posted "...but if one loves the Lord, with all his/her heart, how could one not serve him? Those who are in the body of Christ and are actively working with God in their faith want to serve, and they do." and this is NOT "faith only" but is loving obedience that earns you NOTHING.

Exactly...what has got you so ramped up? I know when God tells me to step up - he does it often. My life is his and I will serve him and do work in his name. Today I was having lunch and I gave away a portion of my sirloin steak (I often wonder if its a sin to love that payday steak so much) and funny how I was musing that yesterday, when today I'm eating my steak at my favorite place and this man who looked very poor had some fries. We were talking and I was sharing a bit about who I am, and we started talking about my cross I wear and I told him why I was a Christian. He said something about wanting to try my steak and I gave him some. So there was my answer, I do love that steak way too much. Haha. But yes, if we are not ready to fight for him, do work in his name and listen when he calls on us I don't think would be worthy of his Kingdom. God works constantly for us, if we love him and are 'of him' we will do the same for each other- in his name.

 

[SeaBass]

Why is He saving you? Because you have a job?

Romans 3:28-30
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

[SUP]29 [/SUP]Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

[SUP]30 [/SUP]Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

These are 2 types of people. Who are the circumcised and who are the uncircumcised?

Do you consider yourself ungodly? If not, then who are these people?

Romans 4:4-5

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Now to him that worketh (That's you right) is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Paul said circumcision and uncircumcision is nothing, 1 Cor 7:19 but what matters is "keeping of the commandments of God".


Rom 4:4 the worker is one who tries to merit his savlation, keep God's law sinlessly so his reward is of debt and not of grace. Abraham was one who sinned so he could not sinlessly merit his salvation but through an obedient faith he was made righteous......I am with Abraham on this one.

 

[danalee]

I believe through faith we are saved.
But don't believe faith alone will get you far.
If a man loves God and has faith but lives a life of sin without care to do good or please God does he get to go to heaven?
You have to live your life in a way that's pleasing to God.

You have a lovely smile. Good post young lady!

 

[SeaBass]

Verse 9 says: 'not of works', for salvation.

Blessings.

Eph 2L9 "not of works" refer to works of merit not obedience.

 

[Dustoffmyfeet]

Paul said circumcision and uncircumcision is nothing, 1 Cor 7:19 but what matters is "keeping of the commandments of God".


Rom 4:4 the worker is one who tries to merit his savlation, keep God's law sinlessly so his reward is of debt and not of grace. Abraham was one who sinned so he could not sinlessly merit his salvation but through an obedient faith he was made righteous......I am with Abraham on this one.

The commandments being to love God, and love your neighbor as yourself. On this circumcision (ex. straight Christians) and uncircumcision (ex. gay Muslim) COUNT FOR NOTHING. Only obeying the commandments (can a straight Christian love a gay Muslim as himself). This is what we are to obey. The "work" that comes from it is love, peace, joy, happiness.

 

[Pres19]

I think we can safely ignore any efforts (if they are such) to turn us away from simple faith in the Lord Jesus, whom we love to serve because we are saved, and depending 100% on Him in His wondrous grace. Blessings.

I agree. But still even with faith I believe works are needed. I can just feel in my heart that they are.
I don't really know or understand why. But I know for me my love for God is why I do them.
I want to be able to do works that glorify Him. I wanna be light for others and I believe my works help me to do so.
If I don't live a good life.. don't do good..not show love..and not help others then how can I call myself a true Christian, a true follower of Jesus?

 

[faroukfarouk]

Eph 2L9 "not of works" refer to works of merit not obedience.

The New Testament speaks of 'the obedience of faith' in more than one passage; it is part of Paul's treatment of the great Biblical truth of justification by faith.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I agree. But still even with faith I believe works are needed. I can just feel in my heart that they are.
I don't really know or understand why. But I know for me my love for God is why I do them.
I want to be able to do works that glorify Him. I wanna be light for others and I believe my works help me to do so.
If I don't live a good life.. don't do good..not show love..and not help others then how can I call myself a true Christian, a true follower of Jesus?

Paul himself says, 'We are His workmanship,created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them' (Ephesians 2.10).

Blessings.

 

[SeaBass]

I believe through faith we are saved.
But don't believe faith alone will get you far.
If a man loves God and has faith but lives a life of sin without care to do good or please God does he get to go to heaven?
You have to live your life in a way that's pleasing to God.

I do not see that faith alone can get one anywhere.

 

[Pres19]

You have a lovely smile. Good post young lady!

Awww thank ya!!!

 

[JustBrandon]

If a man/woman puts out applications for a job, they can pray and believe they will get the job. If in fact they do get the job, they have to work. They have been given what they asked for, but in order to keep the job, they must work.

Of course, God is more gracious than almost, if not all, bosses and would be understanding if one has difficulty doing whatever work He has for them. If one is a Christian, it is presumed that they will serve God, thus do works.

I don't quite understand the issue here. Are we trying to define what works are? Or if one can be saved only through faith or works alone?

 

[SeaBass]

May I ask why you want to know so badly?
I mean it seems to me you love God. You want to live to glorify him.
You know works are needed.
So why do ya wanna know so bad? Isn't it enough to just do what you feel is right without asking others?

By no means am I saying you're wrong for asking and trying to find out.
I just mean sometimes it's easier and better to go with what we feel. If we are doin wrong I truly believe God will help turn us around.

Savlation is either through obedient works or by faith only. It's a mutually exclusive propostion, cannot be both at the same time.

How many people do you know believe in the man-made teaching of "faith only"? Faith only does not save, so would you tell them them or try to show them to get them on the right pathway to salvation?

 

[danalee]

Well SeaBass, I'd love to hear your rendition of what kinds of works we should be doing. Is God calling on you to provide us with this message? It's a good message, after all. I just don't know why everyone here argues so much.

To me it's simple. I'm not inviting the neighbor's kids to my son's birthday party if they are self serving brats who will steal candy and presents and then cry and complain. They aren't invited to the party. I am inviting the nice, thankful children who bring gifts, give love to my son and my family, and participate in the joy of having a birthday with obedience and gratitude. Not everyone is going to get invited to God's party.

 

[SeaBass]

Exactly...what has got you so ramped up?

How many people do you know believe in the man-made teaching of "faith only"? Faith only does not save, so would you tell them them or try to show them to get them on the right pathway to salvation?