What makes it impossible for a carnal mind to be subject to the law?
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So as the story goes: we the Saints have the message of reconciliation from Father through Son, that we are reconciled so please be reconciled back in response of thank you
2 Corinthians 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2 Corinthians 5:19 to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.
2 Corinthians 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2 Corinthians 5:19 to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.
L
Hi Homewardbound,
I've actually been reading John Ch. 17, where Jesus prays that the disciples will be made one even as He is one with the Father. He prayed not only for them, but also for those who would come to HIM through the disciples.
The disciples went on to learn and teach after Jesus rose from the dead. We see this with the two disciples on the road to Emmaus. Even before then, there is the account where Jesus sent the disciples out in two's. They were still learning then as well.
Paul spent three years in the desert learning and it was several years before he went on to form the churches.
Even then Paul said: Philippians 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Philippians 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Philippians 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Both Paul and the disciples, (Apostles) spent every effort teaching the new believers to follow Christ through the lessons contained in the scriptures. He spoke of the Bereans who studied everything out, and Paul spoke much about going from the milk of the word to the meat of the word, and even spoke about the veil when reading Moses, being taken away in Christ.
There is a process involved with becoming one with Christ even as a body of believers. Christ is still the head over the body, and Christ is the one who lights heaven, as shown in Isaiah and Revelation, ("The Lamb is the light thereof.")
We don't suddenly have "all understanding," as babes in Christ. I know I had to learn and am still learning. There is a process.
I'm not concerned about religious rituals that people without understanding attempt to perform in order to prove how righteous they are.
I am concerned about purging the old leaven and being a new lump that is unleavened. I am concerned about resting in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Do you think I can do those things if I don't observe certain days that you say we must observe?
I am concerned about purging the old leaven and being a new lump that is unleavened. I am concerned about resting in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Do you think I can do those things if I don't observe certain days that you say we must observe?
I think a problem arises, between factions, when some are seeing the spiritual side of acting it out in a physical manner. I think those actions actually help them for better spiritual understanding and praise given to our Father in heaven. I don't think that's a threat to their spiritual welfare, or ours for that matter, when they share these things that they do.
On the other hand, I don't make booths, and eat unleavened bread physically at certain times of the year, but I consume the new lump as I am able. I do eat the manna from heaven but some might ask how I can do that when it stopped falling. I say that it never did stop falling, and I eat it according to the Sabbath.
I hope this will help. Physically doing things according to tradition is not incorrect if it is to remember the grace of God through Christ. I'm actually conversing on CC with a person that says Passover is a restriction for Gentiles because God demands everybody to be circumcised before they can eat the Passover. How backwards, and upsidedown!!
If John were to ask me to celebrate Passover with him according to his tradition, I'm positive that I would be blessed, and we would walk together in agreement even though I didn't celebrate with him every year that followed. I doubt very seriously that we would converse about my private parts before thanking God for the Passover.
There is no controversy if we both see things through the Spirit even if we worship physically in different ways, because we totally believe the same in spirit. I'm sure that going to church on Sunday, or Wednesday isn't a traditional ritual either IF, and I say IF one does that to remember Christ and all that God has ever done for us because He loves us so much.
On the other hand, I don't make booths, and eat unleavened bread physically at certain times of the year, but I consume the new lump as I am able. I do eat the manna from heaven but some might ask how I can do that when it stopped falling. I say that it never did stop falling, and I eat it according to the Sabbath.
I hope this will help. Physically doing things according to tradition is not incorrect if it is to remember the grace of God through Christ. I'm actually conversing on CC with a person that says Passover is a restriction for Gentiles because God demands everybody to be circumcised before they can eat the Passover. How backwards, and upsidedown!!
If John were to ask me to celebrate Passover with him according to his tradition, I'm positive that I would be blessed, and we would walk together in agreement even though I didn't celebrate with him every year that followed. I doubt very seriously that we would converse about my private parts before thanking God for the Passover.
There is no controversy if we both see things through the Spirit even if we worship physically in different ways, because we totally believe the same in spirit. I'm sure that going to church on Sunday, or Wednesday isn't a traditional ritual either IF, and I say IF one does that to remember Christ and all that God has ever done for us because He loves us so much.
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C
To me to die daily is to forget what I think I need but to listen to the small voice telling me what I need. Whenever I sin it's not because I don't know it's because I choose not to listen. To me there's a learning curve. I'm a slow learner. I stumbled much but I am learning to walk because every time I fell and didn't want to get up My friend kept raising me up.
1 Kings 19:11-12 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.
I agree. Our Liberty in Christ wouldn't cause us to condemn ourselves for joining in a celebration that is ultimately all about the Lord Jesus anyway.
And likewise, I wouldn't tell someone that they must gather on sundays and have communion every other wednesday or risk being un-pleasing and disobedient to God.
Roger that.
John 6:32-32,55-63
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
[SUP]55 [/SUP]For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
[SUP]56 [/SUP]He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
[SUP]57 [/SUP]As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
[SUP]58 [/SUP]This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
[SUP]59 [/SUP]These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
[SUP]60 [/SUP]Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
[SUP]61 [/SUP]When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
[SUP]62 [/SUP]What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
[SUP]63 [/SUP]It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
And likewise, I wouldn't tell someone that they must gather on sundays and have communion every other wednesday or risk being un-pleasing and disobedient to God.
Roger that.
John 6:32-32,55-63
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
[SUP]55 [/SUP]For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
[SUP]56 [/SUP]He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
[SUP]57 [/SUP]As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
[SUP]58 [/SUP]This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
[SUP]59 [/SUP]These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
[SUP]60 [/SUP]Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
[SUP]61 [/SUP]When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
[SUP]62 [/SUP]What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
[SUP]63 [/SUP]It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
M
Disobedience...and a "worldly" flesh.
Romans 8:7 (KJV)
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Paul said: "I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing." (7:18.) Then the flesh in its desires is at enmity with God. ["Enmity against God" is expressive of an ill feeling toward him. It characterizes a course of conduct. "Mind of the flesh" is a life, and as such is contrary to God's law. It is, therefore, called "enmity."]
for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be.—They who are ruled by the flesh cannot be obedient to the law of God. The law of God and the evil tendency of the flesh are two antagonistic things; hence, they must turn away from the rule of the flesh before they can be brought into harmony with God.
8 and they that are in the flesh cannot please God.—The reason why they cannot please God is because they are constantly sinning against him. The flesh must be brought into subjection to the Spirit before they can be brought into harmony with God. The human spirit cannot gain the mastery over the flesh until it is strengthened by the Spirit of God in Christ Jesus.
Romans 8:7 (KJV)
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Paul said: "I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing." (7:18.) Then the flesh in its desires is at enmity with God. ["Enmity against God" is expressive of an ill feeling toward him. It characterizes a course of conduct. "Mind of the flesh" is a life, and as such is contrary to God's law. It is, therefore, called "enmity."]
for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be.—They who are ruled by the flesh cannot be obedient to the law of God. The law of God and the evil tendency of the flesh are two antagonistic things; hence, they must turn away from the rule of the flesh before they can be brought into harmony with God.
8 and they that are in the flesh cannot please God.—The reason why they cannot please God is because they are constantly sinning against him. The flesh must be brought into subjection to the Spirit before they can be brought into harmony with God. The human spirit cannot gain the mastery over the flesh until it is strengthened by the Spirit of God in Christ Jesus.
C
Who can stand if He speaks in the thunder and comes in the wind but guess how He shows His glory. Silly me always think He express His feelings through weather. Through thunders and lightning I feel His glory and at times I feel His wrath. It's when I knee and pray. He is the consuming fire and He is the small voice. He is righteous and He is love.
E
Paul spoke of self. In my self (flesh) I can not please God. And in my self (flesh) nothing good can come about. Whenever we are self focused. Nothing good can happen. No matter what we do (even if they are things which would be called good. Like getting baptised. Going to church, Not doing the do not do's) they are fleshly, and not of God, He calls them bloody rags, or personaly righteousness. Which is the same as sin.
well 1st the person must be saved, A person who is dead to Christ, even if they were doing things which agree with his commands, is in sin, because he is doing them in the flesh (self focused) and not out of love,
then even after they are saved, they can still turn self focused, And still be in sin, even if obeying Gods commands.
Well the reason they can not please God is because they are totally self focused, and everything they do is for self. The sin is a result of being self righteous. Anything we do with this attitude is sin. I can never commit adultry and think I am righteous for this. Yet my not doing it is in itself sin, Because again it is self focused and self motivated. In fact. a person relying on self can not understand the law. For if he did, He would understand it totally condemns him, And he needs a savior (schoolmaster) so this person can be one of the most righteous people on earth, who we can not see any sin in and appears to be working for God. Or the aduterous drunk who actually lives out his self nature. Both are condemned in their self serving lives.
M
There are things that are "self focused" as you say. But, there are commands such as baptism and assembling which are commanded of us by Jesus.
John 3:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Hebrews 10:25 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.