Salvation Not Possible Without Works
- Thread starter SeaBass
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E
And its going to change my mind? I already read it.
Why have non of you responded to what the word baptize means?
why do you want to add a work of men to the work Of God?
I am dumbfounded why you would would to replace the work of God who is the ONLY ONE capable of placing us into (baptize) Christ, His death and his burial. and twist it to mean a man immersing us in water to get us wet..
Can that man or that water take you back 2000 years to place you in CHrist? Lets get serious now!
Why have non of you responded to what the word baptize means?
why do you want to add a work of men to the work Of God?
I am dumbfounded why you would would to replace the work of God who is the ONLY ONE capable of placing us into (baptize) Christ, His death and his burial. and twist it to mean a man immersing us in water to get us wet..
Can that man or that water take you back 2000 years to place you in CHrist? Lets get serious now!
E
No
He said we must go into mothers womb.
Jesus said you must be made alive again. meaning what?
We are dead in tresspasses and sin, and we must be MADE ALIVE i (born again) \\How is this done?? In water?
eph 2
2 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, [SUP]2 [/SUP]in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, [SUP]3 [/SUP]among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, [SUP]5 [/SUP]even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), [SUP]6 [/SUP]and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, [SUP]7 [/SUP]that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. [SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, [SUP]9 [/SUP]not of works, lest anyone should boast.
And yet again. How were we washed and regenerated (born again)?
Not by works of righteousness which WE HAVE DONE (which would include water baptism) HE SAVED US by the WASHING (Baptism)and REGENERATION (new birth) OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
You guys and your one verse doctrines which contradict other passages of scripture.. Make God a liar
He said we must go into mothers womb.
Jesus said you must be made alive again. meaning what?
We are dead in tresspasses and sin, and we must be MADE ALIVE i (born again) \\How is this done?? In water?
eph 2
2 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, [SUP]2 [/SUP]in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, [SUP]3 [/SUP]among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, [SUP]5 [/SUP]even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), [SUP]6 [/SUP]and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, [SUP]7 [/SUP]that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. [SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, [SUP]9 [/SUP]not of works, lest anyone should boast.
And yet again. How were we washed and regenerated (born again)?
Not by works of righteousness which WE HAVE DONE (which would include water baptism) HE SAVED US by the WASHING (Baptism)and REGENERATION (new birth) OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
You guys and your one verse doctrines which contradict other passages of scripture.. Make God a liar
E
Oh so when the children of Israel were baptised into moses. it was a burial?
WHen I immerse my hand in water it is a burial
When I immerse my shirt in a dyeing solution (another greek use of the word baptizo) it means burial.
Sorry man, I do not listen to interpretations of men.
Baptizo when used as a verb is an action word. The noun which is associated with it, is the focus of the action word.
To be baptized INTO CHRIST. means to be placed, or immersed into Christ. NOT WATER!
E
What does it tell me?
That the word baptizo means to be immersed, to be plunged into. To be placed into union with. To dye or paint (all interpretations of the greek word?
When the children of Israel were baptized INTO MOSES. they were placed into union with Moses, With moses as the head.
When the Bible tells me I am Baptized INTO CHRIST I am placed into union with Christ with him as the head.
You want this to mean water, IT DOES NOT FIT THE WORD.
That the word baptizo means to be immersed, to be plunged into. To be placed into union with. To dye or paint (all interpretations of the greek word?
When the children of Israel were baptized INTO MOSES. they were placed into union with Moses, With moses as the head.
When the Bible tells me I am Baptized INTO CHRIST I am placed into union with Christ with him as the head.
You want this to mean water, IT DOES NOT FIT THE WORD.
M
You are confused about the Old Testament and the New Testament, the law we are under now. When you are baptized, you are baptized "into" Christ.
Romans 6:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
To be "baptized into" is a transition into some one or into some thing. The words would be entirely devoid of meaning if deprived of this conception. Accordingly, to be "baptized into one body" (1 Cor. 12:13) is to pass from without it into it, and, becoming thereby inserted into it, to form a constituent member with its members. To be "baptized unto Moses" (1 Cor. 10:2) is to pass from without the circle of his authority into it, and coming thereby under his undisputed control over their movements. To be "baptized unto repentance" (Matt. 3:11) is to pass by means of baptism from a life of impenitence into the state of him who had ceased from sin. In like manner, to be "baptized into Christ" is to pass from the world, where he is not believed and obeyed, into a state of freedom from sin and a complete subjection to his will.]
Romans 6:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
To be "baptized into" is a transition into some one or into some thing. The words would be entirely devoid of meaning if deprived of this conception. Accordingly, to be "baptized into one body" (1 Cor. 12:13) is to pass from without it into it, and, becoming thereby inserted into it, to form a constituent member with its members. To be "baptized unto Moses" (1 Cor. 10:2) is to pass from without the circle of his authority into it, and coming thereby under his undisputed control over their movements. To be "baptized unto repentance" (Matt. 3:11) is to pass by means of baptism from a life of impenitence into the state of him who had ceased from sin. In like manner, to be "baptized into Christ" is to pass from the world, where he is not believed and obeyed, into a state of freedom from sin and a complete subjection to his will.]
no he did not say born physically and born spiritually, he said born again, that eliminates the first birth, the second birth is of water and spirit, water baptism representing the death burial and resurrection, you have a new life, a babe in Christ once you come up out of the water, and why the Eunuch in acts 8 rejoiced "after" he was water baptized, not when he believed...
S
Let's take it in context, because I do not see where Jesus says you most be born again of water and spirit, Jesus says you must be born (once) of water and spirit.
"Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
"Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?"
"Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
"Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
"Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
"Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?"
"Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
"Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
- John 3:3-8 NASB
No, it was a figurative, a transition from Pharaoh to Moses, it was not an actual baptism.
and how do you get immersed into Christ?
Romans 6:3-4 (NKJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
it is quite simple,
John 3:3 (NKJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
"unless one is born again" that eliminates the first birth, one cannot be born again with half of it done (the natural) already, he eliminated the natural birth, born "again" means "again".
John 3:3 (NKJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
"unless one is born again" that eliminates the first birth, one cannot be born again with half of it done (the natural) already, he eliminated the natural birth, born "again" means "again".
Romans 11:6
-JGIG
New International Version
And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.
New Living Translation
And since it is through God's kindness, then it is not by their good works. For in that case, God's grace would not be what it really is--free and undeserved.
English Standard Version
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
New American Standard Bible
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
King James Bible
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Now if by grace, then it is not by works; otherwise grace ceases to be grace.
International Standard Version
But if this is by grace, then it is no longer on the basis of actions. Otherwise, grace would no longer be grace.
NET Bible
And if it is by grace, it is no longer by works, otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But if it is by grace, it is not from works, or else grace is not grace. But if it is by works, it is not from grace, or else work is not work.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
If they were chosen by God's kindness, they weren't chosen because of anything they did. Otherwise, God's kindness wouldn't be kindness.
Jubilee Bible 2000
And if by grace, then is it not by works; otherwise, the grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, then it is no longer grace; otherwise, the work is no longer work.
King James 2000 Bible
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
American King James Version
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
American Standard Version
But if it is by grace, it is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And if by grace, it is not now by works: otherwise grace is no more grace.
Darby Bible Translation
But if by grace, no longer of works: since [otherwise] grace is no more grace.
English Revised Version
But if it is by grace, it is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.
Webster's Bible Translation
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Weymouth New Testament
But if it is in His grace that He has selected them, then His choice is no longer determined by human actions. Otherwise grace would be grace no longer.
World English Bible
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
Young's Literal Translation
and if by grace, no more of works, otherwise the grace becometh no more grace; and if of works, it is no more grace, otherwise the work is no more work.
And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.
New Living Translation
And since it is through God's kindness, then it is not by their good works. For in that case, God's grace would not be what it really is--free and undeserved.
English Standard Version
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
New American Standard Bible
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
King James Bible
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Now if by grace, then it is not by works; otherwise grace ceases to be grace.
International Standard Version
But if this is by grace, then it is no longer on the basis of actions. Otherwise, grace would no longer be grace.
NET Bible
And if it is by grace, it is no longer by works, otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But if it is by grace, it is not from works, or else grace is not grace. But if it is by works, it is not from grace, or else work is not work.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
If they were chosen by God's kindness, they weren't chosen because of anything they did. Otherwise, God's kindness wouldn't be kindness.
Jubilee Bible 2000
And if by grace, then is it not by works; otherwise, the grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, then it is no longer grace; otherwise, the work is no longer work.
King James 2000 Bible
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
American King James Version
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
American Standard Version
But if it is by grace, it is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And if by grace, it is not now by works: otherwise grace is no more grace.
Darby Bible Translation
But if by grace, no longer of works: since [otherwise] grace is no more grace.
English Revised Version
But if it is by grace, it is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.
Webster's Bible Translation
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Weymouth New Testament
But if it is in His grace that He has selected them, then His choice is no longer determined by human actions. Otherwise grace would be grace no longer.
World English Bible
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
Young's Literal Translation
and if by grace, no more of works, otherwise the grace becometh no more grace; and if of works, it is no more grace, otherwise the work is no more work.
-JGIG