Salvation Not Possible Without Works

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#1,021
#1,021
MsLimpet said:
I think I shall agree with your statement...

In James 2:21 the Bible says, “Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?” Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made complete or perfect? And then the scripture was fulfilled. And James is about to quote the exact same passage in Romans 4:3. James says, “And then the scripture was fulfilled.” When was it fulfilled- after the works. For “‘Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness, and he was called the friend of God.’” It was not until after Abraham obeyed the Lord, it was not until after Abraham followed the Lord that it could be said that it was accounted to him for righteousness.
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Romans 4 : 1 - 8 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

Either James contradicted paul. Or james agreed with paul,

We have to interpret both passages so that they agree.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#1,022
#1,022
BenFTW said:
I genuinely think you don't understand how stupid of a question that is. This would be so comical if it were not so sad.
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lol.

and they wonder why I lol so much!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#1,023
#1,023
cfultz3 said:
Maybe after 40 years they would become disguised with me :)

Love you brother.......
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lol. I am sure God will get disgusted with you also.

My parents locked me in my room, Would not let my use the phone, or watch tv. Spanked me, would not let me do this or that. And even at times took things away. That is how they chastened me to try to get me back to their line of thinking. It did not always work. I still rebelled. Just behind their back.

If I was at a friends or at my grandparents or wherever I may be, If things got too bad. They would bring me home.

One thing about God. We can not do that.(rebel behind his back). And his chastening is much more severe than my parent ever could chasten. And when God brings you home because you are so bad, it is a permanent stay

Love ya too and I hope you know that!
 
BenFTW

BenFTW

Senior Member
#1,024
Oct 7, 2012
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#1,024
eternally-gratefull said:
Romans 4 : 1 - 8 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

Either James contradicted paul. Or james agreed with paul,

We have to interpret both passages so that they agree.
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Remember, they were describing two separate events in the life of Abraham. Paul in Genesis 15:6 when God accounted him righteousness for believing God about his descendants being as numbered as the stars. James when Abraham went to sacrifice Issac. I've heard it said that the justification that Abraham received from the event with Issac wasn't before God, but before men.
 
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Alligator

Guest
#1,025
#1,025
eternally-gratefull said:
Good bye. Have a nice day, I would say I would see you in heaven, But it is not looking like I will.

You have no desire to discuss anything, Your continued twisting of things is getting old..

news flash.

IF NOAH DID NOT DO ANY WORK. HE HAD NO FAITH!!

in other words. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FAITH ALONE..

But we ARE NOT SAVED BY WORKS.

Salvation and work is a BYPRODUCT OF FAITH.
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As you told me once, the truth hurts doesn't it.
 
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MsLimpet

Guest
#1,026
#1,026
eternally-gratefull said:
Romans 4 : 1 - 8 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

Either James contradicted paul. Or james agreed with paul,

We have to interpret both passages so that they agree.
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You are really good at twisting things around...I see that many of us have provided scripture but you fail to understand and want to have it your way, with your "lol"s.

For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God.—Abraham was justified, but by which law? That of faith or by the works of the law? If he was saved by works, or the law of works, he might have whereof to glory; but if he was saved by faith, there was no room for glorying, save in God's blessing. Abraham was justified by faith before he was circumcised. Faith led Abraham away from self, away from home and friends, to follow God, who led him to offer his son of promise. Faith leads man to do the things that he in whom he believes commands. Faith in another leads man to distrust self and to trust and follow the one in whom his faith is centered.
 
BenFTW

BenFTW

Senior Member
#1,027
Oct 7, 2012
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#1,027
MsLimpet said:
You are really good at twisting things around...I see that many of us have provided scripture but you fail to understand and want to have it your way, with your "lol"s.

For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God.—Abraham was justified, but by which law? That of faith or by the works of the law? If he was saved by works, or the law of works, he might have whereof to glory; but if he was saved by faith, there was no room for glorying, save in God's blessing. Abraham was justified by faith before he was circumcised. Faith led Abraham away from self, away from home and friends, to follow God, who led him to offer his son of promise. Faith leads man to do the things that he in whom he believes commands. Faith in another leads man to distrust self and to trust and follow the one in whom his faith is centered.
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MsLimpet, if you're ready to learn the truth I point you to Abraham and Moses. Through these stories the Lord reveals two forms of righteousness. One by works and self-righteousness(or the law) and one by faith (or for us, grace). Read this article if you're open to the truth. If you're not open, and rather stay in the dark then it would be to your benefit to not preach.

https://www.xpmedia.com/article/10265/your-righteousness-is-by-grace-abraham-vs-moses

This article will give you a revelation that you need.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#1,028
#1,028
If you all would stop accusing, judging, damning one another's souls, perhaps by the Spirit of Unity, harmony could be found in Scripture.

Brothers (those who have Jesus as their Messiah) are not damned, only the damned are damned.
 
BenFTW

BenFTW

Senior Member
#1,029
Oct 7, 2012
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#1,029
cfultz3 said:
If you all would stop accusing, judging, damning one another's souls, perhaps by the Spirit of Unity, harmony could be found in Scripture.

Brothers (those who have Jesus as their Messiah) are not damned, only the damned are damned.
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Exactly what I said, a post or two ago. How is someone to call a child of God a sinner, when no where in the NT it calls believers that? They are called saints! (Look a the Corinthian church).
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#1,030
#1,030
eternally-gratefull said:
lol. I am sure God will get disgusted with you also.

My parents locked me in my room, Would not let my use the phone, or watch tv. Spanked me, would not let me do this or that. And even at times took things away. That is how they chastened me to try to get me back to their line of thinking. It did not always work. I still rebelled. Just behind their back.

If I was at a friends or at my grandparents or wherever I may be, If things got too bad. They would bring me home.

One thing about God. We can not do that.(rebel behind his back). And his chastening is much more severe than my parent ever could chasten. And when God brings you home because you are so bad, it is a permanent stay

Love ya too and I hope you know that!
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You know, a funny thing about my post you replied to was that I said 'disguised' when I meant 'disgusted' and even that mistake reminded me of 'seek God while He can yet be found'. Just had to remark on that :)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#1,031
#1,031
cfultz3 said:
You know, a funny thing about my post you replied to was that I said 'disguised' when I meant 'disgusted' and even that mistake reminded me of 'seek God while He can yet be found'. Just had to remark on that :)
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lol.. Guess I should read better :p

that is too funny!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#1,032
#1,032
Alligator said:
As you told me once, the truth hurts doesn't it.
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What truth?

That we can work in order to gain something, yet that work is not considered a work of merit?

lol. You people are too funny!
 
A

Alligator

Guest
#1,033
#1,033
BenFTW said:
Exactly what I said, a post or two ago. How is someone to call a child of God a sinner, when no where in the NT it calls believers that? They are called saints! (Look a the Corinthian church).
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1Jn 1:6    If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.1Jn 1:7    But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.1Jn 1:8    If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.1Jn 1:9    If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.1Jn 1:10    If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#1,034
#1,034
MsLimpet said:
You are really good at twisting things around...I see that many of us have provided scripture but you fail to understand and want to have it your way, with your "lol"s.
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I lol because I am amaze you can continue to say the things you do and say,

I just put two passages together, and asked you to show me how they did not contradict. and all you can do is come at with an attack??

lets see if you actually answered my question, or did as you always do and ignore it.

For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God.
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—Abraham was justified, but by which law? That of faith or by the works of the law? If he was saved by works, or the law of works, he might have whereof to glory; but if he was saved by faith, there was no room for glorying, save in God's blessing. Abraham was justified by faith before he was circumcised. Faith led Abraham away from self, away from home and friends, to follow God, who led him to offer his son of promise. Faith leads man to do the things that he in whom he believes commands. Faith in another leads man to distrust self and to trust and follow the one in whom his faith is centered.
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well according to paul, he was not saved by any works whatsoever (there was no law for abraham to follow so do not try the slippery slope many do and say Paul was talkign about those works)

so again.

how can paul say NO WORKS. lest he boast, or No work. Least he earn A WAGE (This would mean any work under any law, It means a work of merit. Or where you are working to gain or earn something, Say like justification??)

And james say he was saved by faith and works.

Who is wrong? Paul or James? Or is James actually saying something else?

 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#1,035
#1,035
cfultz3 said:
If you all would stop accusing, judging, damning one another's souls, perhaps by the Spirit of Unity, harmony could be found in Scripture.

Brothers (those who have Jesus as their Messiah) are not damned, only the damned are damned.
Click to expand...

how can there be unity when two completely different gospels. Two different means of salvation. And two ways to heaven are being taught?

Is there more than one way to heaven? or did Paul not tell us to speak about a Gospel, which is no gospel at all?( Because it is leading people to hell)

I love ya bro. But I must disagree with you here. One of us are headed to heaven, the other is not. And people are listening to us, who may not be saved, and may be questioning what is being discussed.
 
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MsLimpet

Guest
#1,036
#1,036
eternally-gratefull said:

I lol because I am amaze you can continue to say the things you do and say,

I just put two passages together, and asked you to show me how they did not contradict. and all you can do is come at with an attack??

lets see if you actually answered my question, or did as you always do and ignore it.



well according to paul, he was not saved by any works whatsoever (there was no law for abraham to follow so do not try the slippery slope many do and say Paul was talkign about those works)

so again.

how can paul say NO WORKS. lest he boast, or No work. Least he earn A WAGE (This would mean any work under any law, It means a work of merit. Or where you are working to gain or earn something, Say like justification??)

And james say he was saved by faith and works.

Who is wrong? Paul or James? Or is James actually saying something else?
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Paul and James are not "wrong." You just mix it up and take scripture and MAKE it say something else. I am not here to attack or twist, just to provide biblical scripture. You are the one who is arguing with other "Christian" members. Read your bible.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#1,037
#1,037
to be UN-lascivious is not a work of merit. But, nevertheless, we perform that deed because we desire to be pleasing to our Father.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#1,038
#1,038
eternally-gratefull said:

how can there be unity when two completely different gospels. Two different means of salvation. And two ways to heaven are being taught?

Is there more than one way to heaven? or did Paul not tell us to speak about a Gospel, which is no gospel at all?( Because it is leading people to hell)

I love ya bro. But I must disagree with you here. One of us are headed to heaven, the other is not. And people are listening to us, who may not be saved, and may be questioning what is being discussed.
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One side is saying faith only. For the most part, the other side is saying active faith only.

I agree with both. Faith only saves. But, a dead faith is dead indeed. It is said, 'let us watch over each other so that that heart of stubbornness will not be found in us'. Truly, hearkening to our Master will lead us into His Rest.


......likewise my Brother :)
 
A

Alligator

Guest
#1,039
#1,039
eternally-gratefull said:

What truth?

That we can work in order to gain something, yet that work is not considered a work of merit?

lol. You people are too funny!
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what is amazing is that this is been hammered on so many times and in so many threads and you still don't get it.
 
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