Talking against the law is dangerous

[just-me]

Originally Posted by ZINZERIO

...........personally i think you suffer with the law of condemnation ...............

want to show me where that is in the bible? I never heard of it.

Taint there. It's the definition of the rhetoric that is manifested by the anti Judaizers.

I would say this phrase comes to a persons mind when reading John chapter 5
Here are some verse from that chapter

John 5:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Then Jesus finishes His explanations to the Pharisees by saying

John 5:44-47 (KJV)
[SUP]44 [/SUP]How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

 

[ivanc0]

That, my friends, is seeing things with the mind that has predetermined that armor is bad for the believer

IT depends in what you actually really believe!, Bible says there is ONE gospel, but History has show men has been able to create Hundreds maybe Thousands of gospels.

Bible is SIMPLE, has been written for people with SIMPLE minds. But our brains do not want simple answers, we have to take benefit of what we teach, We neeed..... "TITHING".... so now how we build a set of believes that will support this.

We need to go back to the NT, forget all ours believe systems, and try to understand Jesus and his apostles when they tried to create and administer his church.

The truth is there, We need to start again from scratch. Jesus did not gave us if life for only the "GOSPEL GENIUSES" to understand it.

the KISS principle also applies to Christianity. (KISS=keep it simple stupid)

 

[haz]

Jesus never said to ignore what His Father had said to Moses, and the Prophets......


Now to answer your last question “why would anybody then turn back to the law to judge oneself according to deeds of the law?” I surmise that you clearly believe the law is behind a Christian and is in the past, never to be recognized again in any way shape or form. So I will quote Paul so his words can answer your question, and you can ”judge” for yourself, not according to the “deeds of the law” but according to what you think about the law on a very personal basis, just between you and Jesus Christ.

Romans 8:5-9 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Romans 3:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
I’m very saddened that you are unable to see the Spiritual principles in the law God gave to Moses before Christ.

John 5:46-47 (KJV)
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

You still misunderstand me.

All here agree that the law is good, just and holy, Rom 7:12

Where we differ however, is how is our righteousness determined.

For the legalists here, righteousness is linked with whether we obey the law or not.

But for Christians, our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.

As for Rom 3:31,
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

You see establishing the law as Christians must obey the law or else they're lost.

But I see it as Christians establish the law in that they have submitted to God's righteousness. We acknowledge that the law is just, good and holy, and thus we pursue the only avenue that maintains that measure for righteousness in God's spiritual kingdom. We believe on Jesus, who measures up to the righteousness, holiness, perfection that the law requires.

Thus, it's Christ's righteousness, holiness, perfection that covers us. Our life is hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3.

But as for our flawed physical live's, that body is already dead (by faith, crucified with Christ, Rom 6:6), because of sin, Rom 8:10. Hence we do not judge whether we are righteous or not based upon whether we obey the law perfectly or not during the course of our physical lives.

It was Jesus who measures up to the righteous requirements of the law
Ps 1:1,2
Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

How do Christians attain this standard?
Jesus did it for us.
Rom 7:22
For I delight in the law of God after the inward man

Jesus is the inner man in Christians.
It's Christ in us that God sees. Our life is hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3.

And regarding Rom 8:7.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Those with the carnal mind are those who judge righteousness by physical obedience to the law. Such are in unbelief. Some of these people even mix works of the law with grace, and this cannot be, Rom 11:6.

These unbelievers (legalists), having a carnal mind, seek to establish righteousness by obedience to the law, but will always fail to keep it perfectly. They are workers of iniquity, being guilty of ALL the law, James 2:10.

Rom 10:3.
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Legalists profess to know God but in works they deny Him.
Tit 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works (of the law, which is unbelief in Jesus, as you cannot mix grace with works of the law, Rom 11:6) they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

 

[Timeline]

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

This is telling us that the old law (the law of Moses) is a law of death. If you try to keep one part of the law, then you must keep the whole law. This is not to say that we do not abide by the ideals of the law, but that we realize that we have entered into a new law of grace.
Galatians 5:3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.
James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

Hebrews 10:1-10 For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near. Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins? But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year. [SUP] [/SUP]For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. [SUP] [/SUP]Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says, “Sacrifice and offering You have not desired, But a body You have prepared for Me; In whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have taken no pleasure. [SUP] [/SUP]“Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come (In the scroll of the book it is written of Me) To do Your will, O God.’”
After saying above, “Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have not desired, nor have You taken pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the Law), [SUP] [/SUP]then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. [SUP] [/SUP]By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

 

[danschance]

You are essentially correct. The law for me has changed because my High Priest has changed.

Yep. Amen.

 

[danschance]

You are essentially correct. The law for me has changed because my High Priest has changed.

Yep. Amen.

 

[ivanc0]

Didn't you mean "Is not an issue of carnality an issue of reality?" The answer is yes, and that reality is not of the Spirit.



I beg to differ. Are Greeks Gentiles? The answer is yes. You asked me to read Acts completely through, and so I will give to you a little of what I found in the book of Acts.
Acts 17:10-12 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

So you see here that the Greek men and women searched the scriptures, and all they had was the law and the prophets. What they didn't have was what we know as the New Testament today. It couldn't have been written at the same time this instance was happening.




Yes, you are being difficult. LOL

LOL is good for you health, keep doing it.

But regarding the scripture you have all mixup again.

The ONES IN THE SINAGOGE are greek-jews (no gentiles) they have their books, etc etc etc.

They are no the Gentiles, The gentiles are incircunsided, have no access to sinagoges, and no relationship with the JEWS.

I fully understand you have such a mix up in you mind as you do not differentiate between this people.

Think how you will live if you chinese and living in the USA, or think on the times when whites and blacks could not live together in the USA.

 

[Karraster]

The words of the Lord are pure words:
as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Thou shalt keep them, O Lord,
thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

 

[Zinzerio]

Zinzerio, Could you please, explain acts 15:10
I would love to see your point of view!

Yes certainly (BUT I MUST TELL YOU SOMETHING) you know and i know this scripture you mention is not to put god to the test and i know that you are quite clearly using this scripture to put others on the spot. i have been reading your posts and your last one is more or less stating that just-me is a retard.

The Council at Jerusalem acts 15:10
…9and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. 10"Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11"But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are."…

I hope you dont mind i posted verse 9 as well 9and He made no distinction between us and them, meaning Jew and gentile
which i have started a new thread about Ephesians 3:1-13 (English Standard Version)



The Mystery of the Gospel Revealed

3 For this reason I, Paul, a prisoner for Christ Jesus on behalf of you Gentiles— [SUP]2 [/SUP]assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace that was given to me for you, [SUP]3 [/SUP]how the mystery was made known to me by revelation, as I have written briefly. [SUP]4 [/SUP]When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ, [SUP]5 [/SUP]which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. [SUP]6 [/SUP]This mystery is[SUP][a][/SUP] that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Of this gospel I was made a minister according to the gift of God's grace, which was given me by the working of his power. [SUP]8 [/SUP]To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, [SUP]9 [/SUP]and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in[SUP][b][/SUP] God who created all things, [SUP]10 [/SUP]so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. [SUP]11 [/SUP]This was according to the eternal purpose that he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord, [SUP]12 [/SUP]in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through our faith in him. [SUP]13 [/SUP]So I ask you not to lose heart over what I am suffering for you, which is your glory.

Jews are the same as gentiles my friend in the sense they are uncircumcised until they become circumcised (this is simple i hope for you and plain to see so that you understand now maybe you might accuse you of treating you like a fool because quite clearly you have demonstrated as much toward just-me and me now also.

Your saying God made his word simple to understand but yet you want to throw all his laws out of the window which just-me as quite clearly shown you scripture to show you that is not the case.

Ephesians 2:11-20

New International Version - UK (NIVUK)

Jew and Gentile reconciled through Christ

[SUP]11 [/SUP]Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called ‘uncircumcised’ by those who call themselves ‘the circumcision’ (which is done in the body by human hands) – [SUP]12 [/SUP]remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. [SUP]13 [/SUP]But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, [SUP]15 [/SUP]by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. [SUP]17 [/SUP]He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, [SUP]20 [/SUP]built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.

here we can see both jew and gentile reconciled through Christ i would love to understand this better are we talking about all Jews or something else here ?

 

[just-me]

As for Rom 3:31,
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

You see establishing the law as Christians must obey the law or else they're lost.

But I see it as Christians establish the law in that they have submitted to God's righteousness.

And regarding Rom 8:7.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Those with the carnal mind are those who judge righteousness by physical obedience to the law. Such are in unbelief. Some of these people even mix works of the law with grace, and this cannot be, Rom 11:6.

These unbelievers (legalists), having a carnal mind, seek to establish righteousness by obedience to the law, but will always fail to keep it perfectly. They are workers of iniquity, being guilty of ALL the law, James 2:10.

Legalists profess to know God but in works they deny Him.
Tit 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works (of the law, which is unbelief in Jesus, as you cannot mix grace with works of the law, Rom 11:6) they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

You said to me “You see establishing the law as Christians must obey the law or else they're lost.” It would be beneficial to both you and me if you would quote the words I have written without any comment from you to back up this accusation. Which posts so all can see?

You presented Titus 1:16 and Romans 11:6 - let's expand.
Titus 1:12-16 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

This scripture says exactly what I have been saying, in that it isn’t God’s law that is flawed, it’s man’s law.
“Jewish fables, and commandments of men” “but in works they deny him.” I will add… false accusers in verse 12.

Romans 11:5-8 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
[SUP]8 [/SUP](According as it is written, God *hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

Let's see what the law says in relation to Romans 11:8 and my endorsement of expanded scriptures in relation. The truth presented, we might see opposites in Paul’s writings, and the law, but neither one is wrong. The law says God gave, and Paul is defining what man’s law does, and God gives His righteous judgment. The law presents a positive reaction from God, and Paul defines a negative judgement, because man has used the truth and distorted it according to their own liking which is disapproved by God.

Deuteronomy 29:4-6 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Yet the LORD hath *not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And I have led you forty years in the wilderness: your clothes are not waxen old upon you, and thy shoe is not waxen old upon thy foot.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Ye have not eaten bread, neither have ye drunk wine or strong drink: that ye might know that I am the LORD your God.

Three things I have defined very clearly to those who have wanted to see the truth, and I have presented in scriptures accordingly.

1. The principles of God’s law will never change. We are the ones that Christ came to change. The priesthood changed, and the temple changed but the principles didn’t.

2. I have defined the misconception of how this distortion continues with the misrepresentations that are given concerning establishing God’s law through faith.

3. I have defined that in order to be out from underneath the curse of the law Christ has changed our position in relation to the law, and it no longer can condemn us because we see it in Spirit, and not with a carnal viewpoint.

Outside of these three things, I have not, in any way, endorsed “works” of the law for justification. We are justified by faith, and not works lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:9) Man's law, and God’s law oppose each other. Man's law uses God’s law to distort the truth of the law, just as Satan does and will continue to do. Jesus quoted the law to him during His 40 days in the wilderness which proves its significance.

The major problem with false accusations, and assumptions, is that if anyone dare speak of the law given to Moses as righteous then they are accused of teaching that righteousness is obtained by the works of the law. Talking against a person who endorses the truthfulness of God’s law as righteous and beneficial to the Christian, is also talking against God’s law, and ultimately, misrepresenting God because they only see the man who they say is denying God’s grace. If the hearer wants to see whether this person is telling the truth of not, do as the Bereans and search the scriptures. That's why I quote scriptures. It's not what I have said, it's what God has said.

Again, You said to me “You see establishing the law as Christians must obey the law or else they're lost.” It would be beneficial to both you and me if you would quote the words I have written without any comment from you to back up this accusation.

 

[Zinzerio]

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

This is telling us that the old law (the law of Moses) is a law of death. If you try to keep one part of the law, then you must keep the whole law. This is not to say that we do not abide by the ideals of the law, but that we realize that we have entered into a new law of grace.
Galatians 5:3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.
James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

Hebrews 10:1-10 For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near. Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins? But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year. For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says, “Sacrifice and offering You have not desired, But a body You have prepared for Me; In whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have taken no pleasure. “Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come (In the scroll of the book it is written of Me) To do Your will, O God.’”
After saying above, “Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have not desired, nor have You taken pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the Law), then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Sorry but i have to say i feel your missing something here.

I am quoting you on this. This is what you said (This is telling us that the old law (the law of Moses) is a law of death) ok so you wrote this after quoting Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
my response to you now timeline is this now please tell me where it says This is telling us that the old law (the law of Moses) is a law of death

it mentions the law of sin but not the law of death from Moses (Death that will come if you dont follow my comandment, and come to me heavy in laden. and i hope you can see this the law of death as you put it has nothing to do with Moses oh my goodness you need to go and wash your mouth out.

i wanted to come in and wish everyone a Good morning that was my first intention and still is. So Good morning)

what sets you free is when you become heavy in laden with whatever one of the laws of god given to Moses from God
the law of Moses was not the law of Moses it was the law of God. (given to Moses to be passed on to Gods children.

the spirit which gives life and the law that is written on your heart and you will become or sense something when you break one of his laws to which you either come to God who lightens the burden or you don't (its that simple hope you see this God bless

 

[just-me]

LOL is good for you health, keep doing it.

But regarding the scripture you have all mixup again.

The ONES IN THE SINAGOGE are greek-jews (no gentiles) they have their books, etc etc etc.

They are no the Gentiles, The gentiles are incircunsided, have no access to sinagoges, and no relationship with the JEWS.

I fully understand you have such a mix up in you mind as you do not differentiate between this people.

Think how you will live if you chinese and living in the USA, or think on the times when whites and blacks could not live together in the USA.

So you are saying there were no Greeks in Greece?? Or are you saying that those who worshiped were "Greek Jews" like "African Americans?" If they were Jews only I think that the Greeks wouldn't have even been mentioned.
I quote;

Acts 17:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

NOT Greek-Jews. Not Biblical my friend.

 

[Zinzerio]

[h=3]Luke 11:33-36[/h]New International Version - UK (NIVUK)

[h=3]The lamp of the body[/h][SUP]33 [/SUP]‘No one lights a lamp and puts it in a place where it will be hidden, or under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, so that those who come in may see the light. [SUP]34 [/SUP]Your eye is the lamp of your body. When your eyes are healthy,[SUP][a][/SUP] your whole body also is full of light. But when they are unhealthy,[SUP][b][/SUP] your body also is full of darkness. [SUP]35 [/SUP]See to it, then, that the light within you is not darkness. [SUP]36 [/SUP]Therefore, if your whole body is full of light, and no part of it dark, it will be just as full of light as when a lamp shines its light on you.’

 

[Zinzerio]

[h=3]Luke 6:46-49[/h]New International Version - UK (NIVUK)

[h=3]The wise and foolish builders[/h][SUP]46 [/SUP]‘Why do you call me, “Lord, Lord,” and do not do what I say? [SUP]47 [/SUP]As for everyone who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice, I will show you what they are like. [SUP]48 [/SUP]They are like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When the flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. [SUP]49 [/SUP]But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete.’

 

[Zinzerio]

[h=3]Whom to Fear[/h][SUP]26 [/SUP]“So do not be afraid of people. Whatever is now covered up will be uncovered, and every secret will be made known. [SUP]27 [/SUP]What I am telling you in the dark you must repeat in broad daylight, and what you have heard in private you must announce from the housetops. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather be afraid of God, who can destroy both body and soul in hell. [SUP]29 [/SUP]For only a penny you can buy two sparrows, yet not one sparrow falls to the ground without your Father's consent. [SUP]30 [/SUP]As for you, even the hairs of your head have all been counted. [SUP]31 [/SUP]So do not be afraid; you are worth much more than many sparrows!
[h=3]Confessing and Rejecting Christ[/h][SUP]32 [/SUP]“Those who declare publicly that they belong to me, I will do the same for them before my Father in heaven. [SUP]33 [/SUP]But those who reject me publicly, I will reject before my Father in heaven.

 

[Zinzerio]

Actually the law has changed because that is what the bible states.



So there is a change in the Mosaic law, as Christ fulfilled them. James 2:10 states if one law is valid then all laws are valid. So this change to the Mosaic law is no minor change. It all literally changed as one block of law.

some of the liviticul law has changed yes like how some peopel are punished etc but Gods law has not changed and never will

 

[just-me]

LOL is good for you health, keep doing it.

But regarding the scripture you have all mixup again.

The ONES IN THE SINAGOGE are greek-jews (no gentiles) they have their books, etc etc etc.

They are no the Gentiles, The gentiles are incircunsided, have no access to sinagoges, and no relationship with the JEWS.

I fully understand you have such a mix up in you mind as you do not differentiate between this people.

Think how you will live if you chinese and living in the USA, or think on the times when whites and blacks could not live together in the USA.

Ephesians 3:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

Acts 18:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Read post 252 again, and put it together with this post, in relation to Greek-Jews.

Seems to me that Paul was called as a minister to the Gentiles. God is not mocked, but it's ok if you mock me. Just make sure that you are mocking what God disapproves of and not what He wants us to recognize.

Romans 15:15-16 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

From what I read in Acts, the Judaizers, and legalizers didn’t like it that Paul was ministering the truth according to his ministry to the Gentiles. These Jews didn't like Gentiles being on the same level as they were according to their wrapped perception.

Acts 17:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But when the Jews of Thessalonica had knowledge that the word of God was preached of Paul at Berea, they came thither also, and stirred up the people.

 

[ivanc0]

Didn't you mean "Is not an issue of carnality an issue of reality?" The answer is yes, and that reality is not of the Spirit.



I beg to differ. Are Greeks Gentiles? The answer is yes. You asked me to read Acts completely through, and so I will give to you a little of what I found in the book of Acts.
Acts 17:10-12 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

So you see here that the Greek men and women searched the scriptures, and all they had was the law and the prophets. What they didn't have was what we know as the New Testament today. It couldn't have been written at the same time this instance was happening.




Yes, you are being difficult. LOL

Yes certainly (BUT I MUST TELL YOU SOMETHING) you know and i know this scripture you mention is not to put god to the test and i know that you are quite clearly using this scripture to put others on the spot. i have been reading your posts and your last one is more or less stating that just-me is a retard.

The Council at Jerusalem acts 15:10
…9and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. 10"Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11"But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are."…

I hope you dont mind i posted verse 9 as well 9and He made no distinction between us and them, meaning Jew and gentile
which i have started a new thread about Ephesians 3:1-13 (English Standard Version)



The Mystery of the Gospel Revealed

3 For this reason I, Paul, a prisoner for Christ Jesus on behalf of you Gentiles— [SUP]2 [/SUP]assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace that was given to me for you, [SUP]3 [/SUP]how the mystery was made known to me by revelation, as I have written briefly. [SUP]4 [/SUP]When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ, [SUP]5 [/SUP]which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. [SUP]6 [/SUP]This mystery is[SUP][a][/SUP] that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Of this gospel I was made a minister according to the gift of God's grace, which was given me by the working of his power. [SUP]8 [/SUP]To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, [SUP]9 [/SUP]and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in[SUP][b][/SUP] God who created all things, [SUP]10 [/SUP]so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. [SUP]11 [/SUP]This was according to the eternal purpose that he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord, [SUP]12 [/SUP]in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through our faith in him. [SUP]13 [/SUP]So I ask you not to lose heart over what I am suffering for you, which is your glory.

Jews are the same as gentiles my friend in the sense they are uncircumcised until they become circumcised (this is simple i hope for you and plain to see so that you understand now maybe you might accuse you of treating you like a fool because quite clearly you have demonstrated as much toward just-me and me now also.

Your saying God made his word simple to understand but yet you want to throw all his laws out of the window which just-me as quite clearly shown you scripture to show you that is not the case.

Ephesians 2:11-20

New International Version - UK (NIVUK)

Jew and Gentile reconciled through Christ

[SUP]11 [/SUP]Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called ‘uncircumcised’ by those who call themselves ‘the circumcision’ (which is done in the body by human hands) – [SUP]12 [/SUP]remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. [SUP]13 [/SUP]But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, [SUP]15 [/SUP]by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. [SUP]17 [/SUP]He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, [SUP]20 [/SUP]built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.

here we can see both jew and gentile reconciled through Christ i would love to understand this better are we talking about all Jews or something else here ?

Thanks for your opinion, I really love to be called a fool from you! I take it as an Honor.

Now your explanation is trying to deny what is written in acts 15, and act 21. and you fully distorting Paul teachings Please see the verse below (it has been quoted by you)

[SUP]14 [/SUP]For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, [SUP]15 [/SUP]by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace,

How God made peace between Jew and Gentiles? by setting aside the law with its commands and regulations.
This is exactly what I have been postulating.

You are trying to invent a theory to hide what is absolutely clear! The Moses law is Gone.
Is not me IVANC0 how has said this things. is the apostles of Jesus. And you denying it....... You have my permission to call me fool a million times if you want, .... JESUS SAID , there is no more blind that the one that does not want to see!

 

[Brother_Don]

for me to turn from this way of life would be complete ignorance in my opinion. people telling me come over on this side and taste, test it to see if life can be better. i'll pass and just keep with the side that has been a blessing, and will wait and see if the Almighty chastise me for trying to be obedient, to His law, that He gave to Moses. Moses didn't just think it up one day. Christ Jesus and me go way back, so i'm sure He Himself would have let me know, if being obedient to certain things is wrong.

 

[Zinzerio]

Originally Posted by Grandpa

Faith is a spiritual principle that those with the veil over their mind cannot see. No matter how many times it is presented to them.

Faith doesn't try to establish the law. It just does. Because faith in Christ causes us to abide in Him, knowing that in Him is our blessing and no where else.

So how does Christ bless us? One of the ways is by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit doesn't try to establish the law. The Holy Spirit just does it because it is the Holy Spirits nature.

Hi grandpa i just wanted to make a suggestion you quote her the holy spirit does not try to establish the law and then you quote the spirit just does it.

Are you saying that the holy spirit writes the laws ? because i think you are and if you are saying that then amen

[h=3]The Holy Spirit Gives Life[/h]8 Those who belong to Christ Jesus are no longer under God’s sentence. [SUP]2 [/SUP]I am now controlled by the law of the Holy Spirit. That law gives me life because of what Christ Jesus has done. It has set me free from the law of sin that brings death.