Is Jesus God?

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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,268
6,555
113
It really does not matter what Islam says about Jesus, unless Islam believes prophets of the Most High God may be mistaken. If this is the case Islam allows for true prophets to be fallible.

The Word of Yahweh, God, does not allow for true prophets to err, because all they say is inspired by Yahweh.

As is written in Revelation, Yeshua Jesus, is he Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end.

As another prophet teaches, He is called the Almighty God, Prince of Peace, Wonderful, Counselor, Everlasting Father. He i called this because this is He.

The Elohim I believe is perfect; so are His prophets. Jesus Christ is God, amen.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,268
6,555
113
No one is qualified to dictate another's choice of vocabulary when the vocabulary is valid.

One must allow for the language of others. Trinity is a valid word today referring to God. Again, as previosly stated, if the word, Trinity, has strings of dogma attached, well that is up to the individual's belief and faith, but no one may dictate vocabulary to others.




The right word used is Godhead,not trintity..
Its and order,there is an order,.....like a family..
 
Mar 12, 2014
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The Spirit of Christ speaks ONLY through the Prophets and the prophecies made more perfect when fulfilled by Jesus of Nazareth Whom God made to be both Lord and Christ. Some of the writings of Moses are prophetic but the foundation upon which the Church is built begins with Samuel.

The Israelites were saved from Egypt (sin) and God began to SPEAK The Book of The Covenant which was the ONLY spiritual Covenant made by God IN CHRIST to Abraham. Christ was God's instrumental means but not Jesus.

1Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

But, not Jesus.

The people REFUSED to listen to God speak His WORD directly and consequently fell into musical idolatry at Mount Sinai and God turned them over to worship the starry host. They would be deaf and blind until God sent a PROPHET like Moses.

Deuteronomy 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee,
.....of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
Deuteronomy 18:16 According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb
.....in the day of the assembly, saying,
..........Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God,
..........neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
Deuteronomy 18:17 And the LORD said unto me,
.....They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee,
.....and will put MY WORDS in his mouth;
.....and he shall SPEAK unto them all that I shall command him.
Deuteronomy 18:19 And it shall come to pass,
.....that whosoever will not hearken unto my words
.....which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

"Prophesying" in the good sense was speaking the actual words of Christ in the prophets who could say 'thus saith the Lord."

Deuteronomy 18:20 But the PROPHET,
.....which shall presume to speak a word in my name,
.....which I have not commanded him to speak,
.....or that shall speak in the name of other gods,
.....even that prophet shall die.
 
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J

ji

Guest
No one is qualified to dictate another's choice of vocabulary when the vocabulary is valid.

One must allow for the language of others. Trinity is a valid word today referring to God. Again, as previosly stated, if the word, Trinity, has strings of dogma attached, well that is up to the individual's belief and faith, but no one may dictate vocabulary to others.
And that can contradict what you said about quran..
i don't trust quran neither do i trust term trinity...
Its all about what is provided in Holy Scripture and the right term...
When someone says something is ok like:-
"No one is qualified to dictate another's choice of vocabulary when the vocabulary is valid."- your words,it also means that they are also subject to what Holy Scripture says..
Or is it that some have personal advocate to justify their ideologies other than Jesus when its time for them to explain why they believe so...

The Elohim I believe is perfect; so are His prophets. Jesus Christ is God- your words,totally agree..its a fact
It really does not matter what Islam says about Jesus- your words,totally agree..its a fact.

No one is qualified to dictate another's choice of vocabulary when the vocabulary is valid.
One must allow for the language of others. Trinity is a valid word today referring to God. Again, as previosly stated, if the word, Trinity, has strings of dogma attached, well that is up to the individual's belief and faith, but no one may dictate vocabulary to others. -
WRONG,
its your personal choice...no problem...you are free to choose what you want..but..
The right word used is Godhead,not trinity..(there was a type mistake in the term trinity there,i corrected,sorry for that)
Its and order,there is an order,.....like a family..
i didn't add nothing,
neither should anyone else because the moment they add they should think they just convicted others wrong based on Truth of Holy Scripture..which is
It really does not matter what Islam says about Jesus- your words,totally agree..its a fact.
One must allow for the language of others. Trinity is a valid word today referring to God- your words...
is that a special license to add?
And i began this conversation of trinity with bowman and his wrong profile picture..that's the error in it.
One must allow for the language of others. Trinity is a valid word today referring to God. Again, as previosly stated, if the word, Trinity, has strings of dogma attached, well that is up to the individual's belief and faith, but no one may dictate vocabulary to others.
Then how can you condemn islam?there is no difference in what you say and they say??
Its not personal freedom to think what anyone wants,but what God wants and Holy Scripture is the reference..
And i repeat again,i began this conversation of trinity with bowman and his wrong profile picture..that's the error in it.


Funny,
if someone says that they can sin and its ok to sin because one time saved pledge is enough,people will bury that person in this site..
yes that is wrong..to beliee in once saved always saved ideology..
so is individual's belief and faith that doesnt go along with Holy Scripture.
Now don't tear me apart,look at Holy Scripture not what tradition told in one's neighborhood..


i don't even use the bible version in my mother tongue and use KJV 1611 because its more apt to the original manuscripts...so this is no easy go ride...
God Bless:)
 
J

ji

Guest
The Spirit of Christ speaks ONLY through the Prophets and the prophecies made more perfect when fulfilled by Jesus of Nazareth Whom God made to be both Lord and Christ. Some of the writings of Moses are prophetic but the foundation upon which the Church is built begins with Samuel.

The Israelites were saved from Egypt (sin) and God began to SPEAK The Book of The Covenant which was the ONLY spiritual Covenant made by God IN CHRIST to Abraham. Christ was God's instrumental means but not Jesus.

1Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

But, not Jesus.

The people REFUSED to listen to God speak His WORD directly and consequently fell into musical idolatry at Mount Sinai and God turned them over to worship the starry host. They would be deaf and blind until God sent a PROPHET like Moses.

Deuteronomy 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee,
.....of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
Deuteronomy 18:16 According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb
.....in the day of the assembly, saying,
..........Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God,
..........neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
Deuteronomy 18:17 And the LORD said unto me,
.....They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee,
.....and will put MY WORDS in his mouth;
.....and he shall SPEAK unto them all that I shall command him.
Deuteronomy 18:19 And it shall come to pass,
.....that whosoever will not hearken unto my words
.....which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

"Prophesying" in the good sense was speaking the actual words of Christ in the prophets who could say 'thus saith the Lord."

Deuteronomy 18:20 But the PROPHET,
.....which shall presume to speak a word in my name,
.....which I have not commanded him to speak,
.....or that shall speak in the name of other gods,
.....even that prophet shall die.
what are you trying to prove?that Jesus is an alone entity or there is a Father God position in Godhead?
 
D

Donkeyfish07

Guest
14And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15John testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’” 16For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. 17For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. 18No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

Who is the subject of these five verses?
Before I answer this, we have a GIGANTIC issue in your post that must be addressed. When you quote John 1:18......you say "No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained him"

Yet my bible reads:

"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."

Why are these different?
 
J

ji

Guest
Before I answer this, we have a GIGANTIC issue in your post that must be addressed. When you quote John 1:18......you say "No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained him"

Yet my bible reads:

"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."

Why are these different?
yes,there is a slight difference..
'which' the term is different than 'who'..

but this just makes it clear "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."

Declared=revealed,made known..am i correct?
Isn't that what its supposed to mean?

Great,to the point...:)
That means Godhead is not democracy,there are mysteries beyond Jesus in Godhead:)
And Jesus is our way to it..and that's why Jesus came in flesh(for us to comprehend) being one of the reasons to show Godliness and to make us join back to God where adam failed and broke the relationship.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,144
613
113
70
Alabama
Before I answer this, we have a GIGANTIC issue in your post that must be addressed. When you quote John 1:18......you say "No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained him"

Yet my bible reads:

"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."

Why are these different?
The difference is a textual one. Some ancient Greek manuscripts read μονογενὴς Θεὸς - only begotten God. Other manuscripts read ὁ μονογενὴς υἱός - the only begotten Son. Both readings have very good textual evidence in support of it but personally, I think the best textual support is in favor of ὁ μονογενὴς υἱός - the only begotten Son. Others on this site who are skilled in the Greek like Aangela53510 and timberdoodle may have a different opinion on this.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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what are you trying to prove?that Jesus is an alone entity or there is a Father God position in Godhead?
Nope! I will finish my quote: what I posted promised a PROPHET not a God person. The New Testament agrees that Jesus was that Prophet and if He was/is a prophet OF God then He is not the One God the Father.

Godhead has no relationship to one or many gods: Theotes means having the nature of God. Jesus of Nazareth was not God but the SON of God and He was filled with the NATURE of God meaning the qualites God teaches. Believers have the nature of God but that does not make them gods.

There is ONE GOD THE FATHER but Jesus was the begotten son of God.

Trinity in the modern sense speaks of God as being three, independent, stand alone, centers of consciousness: they are ONE only because they are friendly. That is a product of schools of theology rather than schools of the Bible. This is polytheism and no historic trinity dogma makes that statement.

Theophilus who first used the word TRIAS agreed with Scripture.

The One God the Father conceives or thinks
The One God BREATHES (spirit)
The One God Articulates words.

Jesus made the Words of the One God visible and audible.

My thinking, breathing and speaking are three ASPECTS of my ability to communicate. However, my breathing and articulating words are NOT separate PEOPLE.

 
Nov 19, 2012
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Re: You have nothing...

i deny trinity?
Yes.



show one verse in Holy Scripture that uses the word trinity...

Its right next to the word 'monad'...




trinity in your sense is Father,Son and Holy Spirit is same,that's not Godhead shows.Its a term used in the Holy Scripture..


The same...


Now you want me to start with original manuscripts?
Go ahead...




The term trinity is wrong in the sense,Jesus doesn't know everything but He follows what God tells Him(Mathew 24:36 KJV).Jesus is seated now at the right hand of God the Father(Father of Lights -james 1:17 KJV,1 Timothy 6:16,and many more verses if you want to know the God the Father who is"LOVE") to intercede for us even though He has attained the omnipotent everlasting Godhead,because eternity has not come yet.
your profile pic doesn't reflect it..that's all i said,..and you are shouting out loud for that?
Interesting how you NO longer quote the verses...
 
Nov 19, 2012
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The difference is a textual one. Some ancient Greek manuscripts read μονογενὴς Θεὸς - only begotten God. Other manuscripts read ὁ μονογενὴς υἱός - the only begotten Son. Both readings have very good textual evidence in support of it but personally, I think the best textual support is in favor of ὁ μονογενὴς υἱός - the only begotten Son. Others on this site who are skilled in the Greek like Aangela53510 and timberdoodle may have a different opinion on this.
The oldest extant copies state....'Theos'.....thus, this would be the best....
 
J

ji

Guest
Re: You have nothing...

Yes.






Its right next to the word 'monad'...








The same...




Go ahead...






Interesting how you NO longer quote the verses...
i had enough with you,go play with someone else...
 
A

Anonimous

Guest
yes he is................
 
J

ji

Guest
Nope! I will finish my quote: what I posted promised a PROPHET not a God person. The New Testament agrees that Jesus was that Prophet and if He was/is a prophet OF God then He is not the One God the Father.

Godhead has no relationship to one or many gods: Theotes means having the nature of God. Jesus of Nazareth was not God but the SON of God and He was filled with the NATURE of God meaning the qualites God teaches. Believers have the nature of God but that does not make them gods.

There is ONE GOD THE FATHER but Jesus was the begotten son of God.

Trinity in the modern sense speaks of God as being three, independent, stand alone, centers of consciousness: they are ONE only because they are friendly. That is a product of schools of theology rather than schools of the Bible. This is polytheism and no historic trinity dogma makes that statement.

Theophilus who first used the word TRIAS agreed with Scripture.

The One God the Father conceives or thinks
The One God BREATHES (spirit)
The One God Articulates words.

Jesus made the Words of the One God visible and audible.

My thinking, breathing and speaking are three ASPECTS of my ability to communicate. However, my breathing and articulating words are NOT separate PEOPLE.

hmmm....but what's the clear point you're trying to make?


Doesn't this mean that God can exhibit three properties and in order,Father,son and the Spirit?
And each has its own significance...
i agree with some of the things you told about Begotten..
God is a Spirit,beyond form and gender..
It dwells in light where one can enter...and from it Jesus and Holy Spirit is revealed..
like a huge container,not in any limited finite form that we can comprehend..like maybe always expanding,glowing farther and farther..
Here is something interesting

"[FONT=arial, sans-serif]For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring." acts 17:28 KJV[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, sans-serif]So in total there is an order,and more than trinity the word Godhead is appropriate as Holy Scripture puts it..[/FONT]
 
I

iReadKJV

Guest
God the father, God the Son and God the holy spirit. The bible says "Let us make man in our image". If he were only 1 and not all 3 then he would not have said that.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,979
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If you like I can cut and past the Greek text with LINKS so you can look up the words. But, that would be to hide the truth in plain English.

We need to talk about Hermes or Mercury because he was the LOGOS of the Greeks and others. Hermes was part of the always-pagan trinity. As ANTIthesis (for we readers). No one who knows the GREEK LITERATURE can fail to grasp that the literal father-mother-son is rank paganism. God IMAGED Himself as a SINGULAR visible-audible entity to make certain that disciples could not miss the point. If you sell the free water of the Word God will make certain that He will HIDE from you.

The Israelites rose up in PLAY (musical idolatry) around Apis representing Osiris, Isis and infant Horus. This is the pattern for all pagan trinities. This was a sin beyond redemption. The Catholic trinity with Mary as the Mediatrix is what theologians have grasped but their scholars refute it.





Hermes was the hired hand for ZEUS and those corrupting the Word meaning selling learning at wholesale adopted the pagan trinity under the NEW HERMENEUTICS. Only very liberals reject the clear statement of Scripture which Christ in Isaiah 55 told ME not to pay for.

Their father is ZEUS and you will hear preachers calling Jesus Je-zeus meaning HAIL ZEUS.

pa^tēr II. Especially as epith. of Zeus, patēr Zeus, p. Kronidēs, p. andrōn te theōn

Kron-idēs [i^, ou, ho, Patron., A.son of Cronos, i.e. Zeus, Il.1.498, al.; Zeus K. 2.111,

Kairos (end time) aka Hermes/Mercury is the son of Chronos as in THRUST IN THE SICKLE the fruit is ripe.

OR pater is the Father of Jesus whom the Father MADE TO BE both Lord and Christ. He was neither Lord nor Christ (Messiah) until God ordained him. Jesus was of the SEED of Mary all of the way back to ABRAHAM. THEREFORE, Jesus of Nazareth did not exist until he was BORN. SEED means SPERM. That is the TRINITARIANS claim that the father god had sex with the mother goddess (spirit). And that is heresy.

Matthew 7:21 [21] Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of MY Father WHO IS IN HEAVEN.
Malachi 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not ONE GOD created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?
Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is ONE GOD; and there is none other but HE:
Romans 3:30 Seeing it is ONE GOD which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
1Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, OF whom are all things, and we in him;
and one Lord Jesus Christ, BY whom are all things, and we by him.
Ephesians 4:6 ONE GOD and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1Timothy 2:5 For there is ONE GOD and one mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus;
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is ONE GOD; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

But the Spirit in JESUS IS GOD, IS THE CREATOR, IS YAHWEH, IS THE ETERNAL ONE, etc. JESUS of Nazareth was and is both MAN AND GOD, that is the whole point.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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It is amazing that they would rather jump through 13 interpretation hoops, than admit that JESUS claimed to be GOD in the flesh. But it was prophesied to be this way.

2 Peter 3:2-3 (ESV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires.

2 Peter 2:1-2 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, and will bring swift destruction on themselves.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Many will follow their unrestrained ways, and the way of truth will be blasphemed because of them.

2 Timothy 3:7 (HCSB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] always learning and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.

Romans 1:20-21 (NKJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
I agree and will add that the end result of the above Romans reference is a society that....

1. Does not like to retain God in their knowledge...
2. Which results in a reprobate mind void of judgment...
3. Sexual Perversion
4. Judgment<---as in the wrath of God....

Seems like this country on a whole is teetering betwixt 3 and 4 on the above list--->leaning toward 4 in my own view!
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,825
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Thanks a lot: God gave me A holy spirit by request at baptism which means that I can read BLACK text on BROWN paper.
gnostic mysticism? no thanks.

Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you? Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
(2 Corinthians 3:1-6)

Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech

(2 Corinthians 3:12)