AM I JEW OR A GENTILE IF I KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS ?

[cfultz3]

That's exactly my point. If you are working at being moral according to the law, aren't you under the law still?

It is not working to be moral when one hearkens to the Spirit. By me agreeing and doing what the Spirit says is good in the sight of God, then I naturally do what is moral. By me concurring with the Spirit, that does not equal work, that is just accepting that God has a will to be followed.

And if you are under the law is that walk pleasing to God?

No, not at all.

And if that is so then what was the point of Christ coming?

To agree with the Spirit and comply with what He says is God's will is not a work that I have done to have obtained a righteous deed, it just the way it is. And those times that I do concur and oblige, it is called a Spiritual fruit, a fruit which is eternally rewarded.

Or are you saying that there is a walk for legalists and a different separate walk for Christians???

There is only one walk for a Christian, the walk with the Spirit leading to the Light.

 

[iamsoandso]

i have another curiosity about whether or not we are to adhere to the old law,,,,in ad70 the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed and the city, all of the temple priest,teachers,ect. were carried away into captivity. Now this is 2014,today we have bibles that were printed in all of our houses,,,,today we read and re-read the bible book by book, we have it in our possession.,,,,

But yesterday,when the temple was torn down the newly converted Christians did not have the "king James bible",it was not yet interpreted,nor the niv or any other. the Jewish synagogs were torn down one by one by the Romans,that is they knew the key to keeping the Jews from re-organizing any type of revolt. (this is a key fact),,,that is one might say that god had full intention of the newly converted Christians committing to an in-depth study of the old law,but instead the Romans tore down the synagogs stone by stone and scattered those who were learned in the old law all over the known world.Now for generations they(the Jews) remained in captivity,their teaching of the old laws were reduced to almost nothing. on the other hand Christianity and the teaching of the Gospel flourished.

It is a fairly simple approach if we consider it,that is if god the almighty being god wanted the jews to remain in the synagogs and teach the newly converted Christians each and every precept of the old law then there would have been no way possible for the Romans to remove them from this religious power.,,that is if god would have wanted them to do this the temple would have never been torn down,more and more synagogs would have been built throughout the gentile world,and all of the newly converted Christians would have been taught it in ad200,ad300,ad400 ect.ect. up to the modern day.

this did not take place as we know,instead the Jews of old refused Jesus as the Messiah and continued to teach that the Christ/Messiah was still to come. that is and some would teach that the Jews were teaching the new Christians the old law so they could understand Jesus. but we know that they did not from history,we know that they detested Jesus and taught against him as the Messiah.

Now again we have the books of the new testament(but from ad100 till the invention of the printing press 99% of humanity did not),,,that is if you were born in ad674 the several books that the catholic priest had in what ever town you lived in were all there was. Now it was illegal to not be catholic,so which ever of the different books he was reading from was the entire Gospel you were hearing.,,,that is until the late 1500's when we started printing bibles. well what other option is there,is it correct that from ad100 till ad1950 all Christians were obligated to take the k.j.v. bible and take it apart word for word then look up every word in Greek and Hebrew and what say by 2014,,,,were the only geniuses that figured out the truth and were saved?,,,,what about the other millions of Christians born way back in ad459?,,oops poor them the old testament hadn't been translated yet so since they didn't look at it with a microscope like us oh well?

seems to me if god had intended for us to learn every precept of the law of the old testament (for our salvation),,,then he being god would have left those teaching it in full power,had their teaching abilities spread the world over,,,their temple would have never been removed,,,,,,

 

[Grandpa]

If Christ came to abolish the morals of God, then He was a minister of lasciviousness. Yet, we have Christ saying that if we love then we do satisfy the Law of God. Yes, that same Law written upon the hearts of every man who enters into this world.

If God took the time to have written that Law upon our hearts, then we should seek why instead of trying to kill it. If God saw that it was important to have written His moral Laws upon our hearts, the same Law the Spirit speaks to us, the Law from Christ, that same Law which states that love satisfies God's moral Law, then it must be important for Him to have done so.

The morals of God? You are confused on what is written on our heart. You are confused on what Law the Spirit speaks to Christians. You are definitely confused when you attempt to mix law with Grace.

But most people do this. Because they understand the law. Its easy to understand. Because everyone is under it until they come to Christ.

What very few people understand is not being under the law. That's because it is only understood through the wisdom and revelation of the knowledge of Christ.

Just about everyone points to the law and says "see, if we do this we are pleasing to God". The Lord Jesus corrects that wrong philosophy and says Being Perfect is what is Pleasing to God. If you could be pleasing to God by the Law then there would be no reason for the Lord Jesus to be a sacrifice Himself for us.

Try to kill the law, lol... that must be what the Pharisees thought of the Lord Jesus too, and definitely what they thought of Paul and the Apostles.

Isn't it strange how some Christians mix the Law and Grace? You can have a little grace but not too much... IF that were the way of righteousness then why even write a New Testament???

Galatians 3:1-3
[SUP]1[/SUP]O foolish Galatians(CHRISTIANS), who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? [SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

 

[iamsoandso]

The morals of God? You are confused on what is written on our heart. You are confused on what Law the Spirit speaks to Christians. You are definitely confused when you attempt to mix law with Grace.

But most people do this. Because they understand the law. Its easy to understand. Because everyone is under it until they come to Christ.

What very few people understand is not being under the law. That's because it is only understood through the wisdom and revelation of the knowledge of Christ.

Just about everyone points to the law and says "see, if we do this we are pleasing to God". The Lord Jesus corrects that wrong philosophy and says Being Perfect is what is Pleasing to God. If you could be pleasing to God by the Law then there would be no reason for the Lord Jesus to be a sacrifice Himself for us.

Try to kill the law, lol... that must be what the Pharisees thought of the Lord Jesus too, and definitely what they thought of Paul and the Apostles.

Isn't it strange how some Christians mix the Law and Grace? You can have a little grace but not too much... IF that were the way of righteousness then why even write a New Testament???

Galatians 3:1-3
[SUP]1[/SUP]O foolish Galatians(CHRISTIANS), who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? [SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

yes,if they seek to justify them selves by the works of the law,,,,"THEY HAVE NO PART OF GRACE",,,,(Galatians 5;4)

 

[ivanc0]

Antisemitism is on the rise, and we all know where that leads. Unless you are a denier. Hatred of the Jews is in the Bible from cover to cover, and the haters are not the good guys.

We all killed Jesus, don't blame it on the Jews. We all sin, and He died in our place. Isn't that a good reason to rejoice? I think so. Jesus laid His life down, no greater Love than a man lay his life down for a friend, and He invites us to be His friends.

Don't blame the Jews. They are human beings, and God loves them, and Jesus asked Father to forgive them, for they know not what they do, and that while Jesus was still on the tree. I hope He will ask leniency for me as well.

Hate seeks an outlet, and the Jews have always been an easy target.

Mouth of the False Prophet- the Jews can't live among us as Jews.
Mouth of the Beast-The Jews can't live among us.
Mouth of the Dragon-The Jews cannot live.

Don't be a hater. Jesus expects better of us than hate.

No all Jew killed Jesus there were Good ones too.
But the ones who killed Jesus where those Jews lovers of the LAW, in words of Jesus they are:

Matew 23
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves............

[SUP]29 [/SUP]Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

This is the way Jesus is talking of the Law People of His days.....

No surprise He FULFILLED the law, and established a New Pact. So be Happy Jesus made us free of that "rigid-intolerant law" and gave us GRACE.
Thanks Jesus.

 

[iamsoandso]

No all Jew killed Jesus there were Good ones too.
But the ones who killed Jesus where those Jews lovers of the LAW, in words of Jesus they are:

Matew 23
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves............

[SUP]29 [/SUP]Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

This is the way Jesus is talking of the Law People of His days.....

No surprise He FULFILLED the law, and established a New Pact. So be Happy Jesus made us free of that "rigid-intolerant law" and gave us GRACE.
Thanks Jesus.

even today he sends them,we begin thread after thread entitled "is so and so an good preacher or evil?",,,,and we judge them and prepare their tombs,,,,yet we cannot say left or right,,,,,,,,

 

[cfultz3]

The morals of God? You are confused on what is written on our heart. You are confused on what Law the Spirit speaks to Christians. You are definitely confused when you attempt to mix law with Grace.

But most people do this. Because they understand the law. Its easy to understand. Because everyone is under it until they come to Christ.

What very few people understand is not being under the law. That's because it is only understood through the wisdom and revelation of the knowledge of Christ.

Just about everyone points to the law and says "see, if we do this we are pleasing to God". The Lord Jesus corrects that wrong philosophy and says Being Perfect is what is Pleasing to God. If you could be pleasing to God by the Law then there would be no reason for the Lord Jesus to be a sacrifice Himself for us.

Try to kill the law, lol... that must be what the Pharisees thought of the Lord Jesus too, and definitely what they thought of Paul and the Apostles.

Isn't it strange how some Christians mix the Law and Grace? You can have a little grace but not too much... IF that were the way of righteousness then why even write a New Testament???

Galatians 3:1-3
[SUP]1[/SUP]O foolish Galatians(CHRISTIANS), who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? [SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

IC.............

And how are we to be perfect before God?

 

[cfultz3]

The morals of God? You are confused on what is written on our heart. You are confused on what Law the Spirit speaks to Christians. You are definitely confused when you attempt to mix law with Grace.

What is written on our hearts? Is love the Law of the Spirit?

But most people do this. Because they understand the law. Its easy to understand. Because everyone is under it until they come to Christ.

What very few people understand is not being under the law. That's because it is only understood through the wisdom and revelation of the knowledge of Christ.

Have I said that we are under the Law as a Covenant with God?

Just about everyone points to the law and says "see, if we do this we are pleasing to God". The Lord Jesus corrects that wrong philosophy and says Being Perfect is what is Pleasing to God. If you could be pleasing to God by the Law then there would be no reason for the Lord Jesus to be a sacrifice Himself for us.

Does it not say that the love fulfills the Law of God? Sure it does. So, if we love, are we not pleasing to God? It says that the one who teaches against the commands of God is least in the Kingdom of the Heavens, that is, in Christ's Kingdom. So, it would be wise to not teach against morality.

Try to kill the law, lol... that must be what the Pharisees thought of the Lord Jesus too, and definitely what they thought of Paul and the Apostles.

I did not say 'kill the law', I said something like 'kill God's morality'. It was God who wrote His moral Laws on your hearts. If He took the time to have written them there, should we not take into consideration that it must be important for us Christians accept that the Law is right there in our hearts as part of our relationship with God through Jesus?

Isn't it strange how some Christians mix the Law and Grace? You can have a little grace but not too much... IF that were the way of righteousness then why even write a New Testament???

It is strange how some people mix law and grace, true. It is ever stranger to imply that Christ got rid of morality. By what means does the Spirit lead? Love? Does not love satisfy God's Law? Yes. So, they who hearken to the Spirit does satisfy God's will.

Galatians 3:1-3
[SUP]1[/SUP]O foolish Galatians(CHRISTIANS), who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? [SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Morality equals Law? Would you teach lasciviousness? No. Why? Because it would be IMMORAL....Agreeing with the Spirit and doing as He leads is not Law or work, it is simple being led by the Shepherd. Surely, the Shepherd does not lead by immorality.

 

[cfultz3]

IC.............

And how are we to be perfect before God?

By loving....

And what does love fulfill?

God's Law....

What is God's Law?

that which love fulfills....

And that is?

Love will cause no harm...it will not kill, lie, cheat, envy, etc.....love fulfills what God deems good before His eyes...and that we call morality.

 

[Daley]

Are you also including the moral laws or did Christ make peace between the Jews and Gentiles by abolishing that enmity between them which was caused by those laws which made Jews specifically Jews, those laws pertaining to sacrifice, where He became sacrifice, those laws of high priest, where He became the High Priest, those laws pertaining to the Holy of Holies, where He rent that veil?

mo·ral·i·ty noun \mə-ˈra-lə-tē, mȯ-\ : beliefs about what is right behavior and what is wrong behavior : the degree to which something is right and good : the moral goodness or badness of something (Mirriam-Websters Dictionary) Morality - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary Morality (from the Latin moralitas "manner, character, proper behavior") is the differentiation of intentions, decisions, and actions between those that are "good" (or right) and those that are "bad" (or wrong).[citation needed] Morality can be a body of standards or principles derived from a code of conduct from a particular philosophy, religion, culture, etc., or it can derive from a standard that a person believes should be universal.[1] Morality may also be specifically synonymous with "goodness" or "rightness." Immorality is the active opposition to morality (i.e. opposition to that which is good or right), while amorality is variously defined as an unawareness of, indifference toward, or disbelief in any set of moral standards or principles.[2][3][4] (Wikipedia) Morality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Based on the fact that "moral" simply means 'right from wrong,' we can say that all laws given by God were moral laws, for God never gave any laws that were immoral. Any law God gave, be it circumcision, animal sacrifice, sababaths, or laws against murder and stealing, were "right," and therefore were "moral," for God never commanded anyone to do stuff that was "wrong." My question to you is, what is your definition of morality? What makes a law moral? Do you believe there were any laws that were not moral? Epheisans 2:15 was speaking about COMMANDMENTS and ORDINANCES. Look up the definition of those words in a dictionary and you'll see they can apply to any and all the laws given at Mount Sinai. Does the abolition of these laws leave us with no laws to obey? Not at all, because Jesus while he was in the flesh, as well as through the New Testament writers after he ascended to heaven, over and over again repeats the NEW laws he laid down during his ministry. Laws that are very similar but better than the laws he gave to Israel through Moses. Many refuse to accept these are a new set of laws, but there is good evidence that they are. Like I said, many are similar to the torah, but there are also some big differences. The idea that the law of Moses was ever divided into moral, ceremonial, civil and dietary laws is a man-made idea. The Bible makes no such division.

 

[Grandpa]

IC.............

And how are we to be perfect before God?

By abiding in Christ. By abiding in His Love.

 

[Grandpa]

By loving....

And what does love fulfill?

God's Law....

What is God's Law?

that which love fulfills....

And that is?

Love will cause no harm...it will not kill, lie, cheat, envy, etc.....love fulfills what God deems good before His eyes...and that we call morality.

Not by your work.

By the work of the Holy Spirit.

If you think your love fulfills the law you are woefully falling short.

 

[cfultz3]

yes,if they seek to justify them selves by the works of the law,,,,"THEY HAVE NO PART OF GRACE",,,,(Galatians 5;4)

What if I do not love? What is said about not loving? What was the purpose of Jesus commanding us to love and saying that by doing so, we fulfill the Law?

God's moral laws are not dead, we fulfill that Law by love......remember what it says about those who do not love......

 

[cfultz3]

Not by your work.

By the work of the Holy Spirit.

If you think your love fulfills the law you are woefully falling short.

If it is not us who fulfill God's law but the Holy Spirit, then whose deeds will God judge on Judgment Day? The Holy Sprint's? Surely, God's judgment is not against Himself.

By hearkening to the Spirit, we do fulfill the Law by acts of love. And those times that we Christians do not hearken to the Spirit, those deeds will be burnt up by the Fire. They only thing which will remain are those deeds which we did in conjunction with the Sprint.

 

[KohenMatt]

Matt, so what is the difference of old and new? In the old testament they had the laws and the coach, why did they fail? what has changed?

Sorry I didn't see this. I stopped paying attention to this thread days ago.

But in answer to your question, The difference between the Mosaic Covenant and the New is the atonement of Jesus as opposed to the sacrifices.

They failed for the same reason that we fail to live the life God asks us to, because we're fleshly, sinful beings. So no, nothing has changed in that regard. Today, we have Jesus' sacrifice as our atonement.

 

[cfultz3]

By abiding in Christ. By abiding in His Love.

wink...if we are abiding, then we are acting....and if we are acting then we do remain in Christ by hearkening to His Spirit.

 

[cfultz3]

mo·ral·i·ty noun \mə-ˈra-lə-tē, mȯ-\ : [edited] What God has deemed right or wrong.

I am sure we all agree to that.

Based on the fact that "moral" simply means 'right from wrong,'

Morality is the standard God Himself has set. It is God who has said what is right or wrong before His eyes.

we can say that all laws given by God were moral laws, for God never gave any laws that were immoral. Any law God gave, be it circumcision, animal sacrifice, sababaths, or laws against murder and stealing, were "right," and therefore were "moral," for God never commanded anyone to do stuff that was "wrong."

So then, we are to be under the Levitical Covenant, seeing that it would be moral to do so? We are to be circumcised to be in Covenant with God, since it was a law God made and thus, it would be moral to do so? Not all laws from God pertains to morality (that which God has deemed right or wrong before His eyes).

My question to you is, what is your definition of morality? What makes a law moral? Do you believe there were any laws that were not moral?

What God has deemed right or wrong before His eyes. A law is moral when it speaks about what action to take in a situation where there is a dilemma presented of which path to take, that one which leads to death or this one which is God's righteous path. If I take that path, then I am not walking on that path. So, which path do I take? Simply, Proverbs are morals, Jesus' command to love is moral, the Ten Commandments are morals. Morals: what God sees as good.

Epheisans 2:15 was speaking about COMMANDMENTS and ORDINANCES. Look up the definition of those words in a dictionary

Or Scripture.

and you'll see they can apply to any and all the laws given at Mount Sinai. Does the abolition of these laws leave us with no laws to obey? Not at all, because Jesus while he was in the flesh, as well as through the New Testament writers after he ascended to heaven, over and over again repeats the NEW laws he laid down during his ministry. Laws that are very similar but better than the laws he gave to Israel through Moses. Many refuse to accept these are a new set of laws, but there is good evidence that they are. Like I said, many are similar to the torah, but there are also some big differences. The idea that the law of Moses was ever divided into moral, ceremonial, civil and dietary laws is a man-made idea. The Bible makes no such division.

Yes it does, Christ's new Law (although not new in that it was already God's Law) is Love. And by love we do satisfy God's moral laws.

 

[Daley]

i truthfully believe that the two words used in scripture would help to understand the law of god both old and new. the words I'm speaking of are "TESTAMENT" which in most definitions means "WILL,OR THE DIRECT THINGS THE TESTIFIER IS CONVEYING ACROSS TO THOSE THEY ARE SPEAKING TO",,,,and then "COVENANT",in most definitions means that someone and the one whom is testifying or delivering "a testament" has made a covenant between the two to comply to the will of the given testament.

now maybe there are other definitions given in different bible dictionaries,and also at times where it was translated as such when it should mean a little different(would need to look at each instance). i will give an instance,,"thy (WILL) be done on earth as it is in heaven",,,which to me means that gods (will),the testament he gave in stating it,is one and the same as in heaven as in the earth among mankind. and that the "will or testament" he gave both to the members of heaven and mankind on earth.

Another instance is from (Mathew 26;28),,"for this is my blood of the new (testament/statement of will),which is shed for many for the remission of sins." so Christ himself make the comment that his blood is a statement of a (new),testament or will to be entered into by covenant/agreement by those who agree to accomplish it. also he uses the word "testament"(or it's translated that way,to convey the meaning that a statement of the (will of god) has been made.

Again in (Hebrews 9;15) it is said "and for this cause he is the mediator of the (new) testament/will,that by means of death,for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the (first) testament/will,they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance",,,now in this instance the author states "new testament",,and then "first testament",,,

I am not a great debater,i enjoy reading and following along watching you all discuss the different issues. i noticed that the different threads about the old/new resurface and i wondered why none has examined the meanings of the words in Greek or Hebrew,,namely "testament and covenant" at first they (in English) they seem straight forward.

here are some scriptures where the word "will" is used which is the same usage we consider as testament,,,,John 6;40,,Ephesians 1;5-12,,,,Ephesians 5;1-20,,,Ephesians 6;5-8,,,2 Corinthians 8;1-7,,,1 thess.5;11-18,,,1peter 2;15,,,1peter 4;1-7 and 19,,,colossians 1;9-12,,,collossians 4;12,,,1 john 2;15-17,,,romans 8;27-31,,,romans 12;1-21,,,romans 15;30-33,,,Hebrews 10;35-39,,,mark 3;35,,,Matthew 18;11-14,,,1 thess.4;1-8,,,ephesians 5;15-17,,,

Dictionaries are good, but not better than the Word of God. I'll take God's very own definition of what the covenant was:

"He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments." Deut 4:13, NIV
"And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant—the Ten Commandments." Exod 34:28

1 Kings 8:9 says there was nothing in the ark except the two tables of stone which we know had the Ten Commandments written on them, yet, according to verse 21, in that ark was "the covenant" which God made with Israel. That seems to shut off all doubt about what the covenant was.

Now, all we need do is read Hebrews 8:13 to see what became of that covenant.

 

[Grandpa]

If it is not us who fulfill God's law but the Holy Spirit, then whose deeds will God judge on Judgment Day? The Holy Sprint's? Surely, God's judgment is not against Himself.

Very good question.

By whose deeds would you rather be judged by on Judgement Day? Yours? Or the deeds of the Lord Jesus Christ???

 

[dcontroversal]

I agree. Yet you left out one thing. We all killed Jesus and Christian baptism is partaking in His death. Communion is a remebrance of his death as we eat flesh and drink his blood. So we all killed Jesus.

Yes, the Romans share in the guilt, but keep in mind Pontius Pilate tried to set Jesus free and even declared Him innocent. He even tried to let Jesus go a secound time when he said who do you wish me to free Barabas or Jesus? The Jews stood thier ground and demanded Jesus be put to death. Pilate knew he was shedding innocent blood and did a public hand washing to say that his hanbds are clean of HIS blood. The Jews who were present said:



So there you have it. The Jews who were present, willing accepted the guilt of shedding innocent blood of their own Messiah and prefered to let a criminal (Barabas) go free instead of Christ. yet every time we sin, we are also to blame for His death.

I agree and will note that I did name humanity...

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

I immediately thought of this scripture you posted concerning who killed Jesus.....and it also seems that....

1. The Jews delivered him to be killed at the result of a sham trial that broke their own laws...
2. The Romans also killed him as Pilate gave the death sentence and Roman Soldiers nailed him to the cross after a good ole beat down........
3. The Heavenly Father desired his death as well so as to fulfill His will...
4. Jesus wanting to please the Father laid down his life willingly...
5. Technically Adam is guilty as well, had he not sinned...
6. EVE...Well that's another story...Had she had her head on straight when the serpent.....
7--->number of completion....Humanity over all is guilty as well as Christ did pay humanities sin debt.

And on and on and on.......