AM I JEW OR A GENTILE IF I KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS ?

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Daley

Guest
i have another curiosity about whether or not we are to adhere to the old law,,,,in ad70 the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed and the city, all of the temple priest,teachers,ect. were carried away into captivity. Now this is 2014,today we have bibles that were printed in all of our houses,,,,today we read and re-read the bible book by book, we have it in our possession.,,,,

But yesterday,when the temple was torn down the newly converted Christians did not have the "king James bible",it was not yet interpreted,nor the niv or any other. the Jewish synagogs were torn down one by one by the Romans,that is they knew the key to keeping the Jews from re-organizing any type of revolt. (this is a key fact),,,that is one might say that god had full intention of the newly converted Christians committing to an in-depth study of the old law,but instead the Romans tore down the synagogs stone by stone and scattered those who were learned in the old law all over the known world.Now for generations they(the Jews) remained in captivity,their teaching of the old laws were reduced to almost nothing. on the other hand Christianity and the teaching of the Gospel flourished.

It is a fairly simple approach if we consider it,that is if god the almighty being god wanted the jews to remain in the synagogs and teach the newly converted Christians each and every precept of the old law then there would have been no way possible for the Romans to remove them from this religious power.,,that is if god would have wanted them to do this the temple would have never been torn down,more and more synagogs would have been built throughout the gentile world,and all of the newly converted Christians would have been taught it in ad200,ad300,ad400 ect.ect. up to the modern day.

this did not take place as we know,instead the Jews of old refused Jesus as the Messiah and continued to teach that the Christ/Messiah was still to come. that is and some would teach that the Jews were teaching the new Christians the old law so they could understand Jesus. but we know that they did not from history,we know that they detested Jesus and taught against him as the Messiah.

Now again we have the books of the new testament(but from ad100 till the invention of the printing press 99% of humanity did not),,,that is if you were born in ad674 the several books that the catholic priest had in what ever town you lived in were all there was. Now it was illegal to not be catholic,so which ever of the different books he was reading from was the entire Gospel you were hearing.,,,that is until the late 1500's when we started printing bibles. well what other option is there,is it correct that from ad100 till ad1950 all Christians were obligated to take the k.j.v. bible and take it apart word for word then look up every word in Greek and Hebrew and what say by 2014,,,,were the only geniuses that figured out the truth and were saved?,,,,what about the other millions of Christians born way back in ad459?,,oops poor them the old testament hadn't been translated yet so since they didn't look at it with a microscope like us oh well?

seems to me if god had intended for us to learn every precept of the law of the old testament (for our salvation),,,then he being god would have left those teaching it in full power,had their teaching abilities spread the world over,,,their temple would have never been removed,,,,,,
Great point. Amen
 
Mar 23, 2014
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If you keep the commandments as God has directed you too you are cherished by God either way, it does not matter.It is the works that matter and what is in your mind, not who or what you are

just my take on it so take or or leave it, the choice has always been yours to make

:)-
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Maybe we are...

Jewtiles or Gentews.........YEAH I KNOW! Seeing how there is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ as he has made the twain unto ONE in Jesus.....humanity back under one banner under God!<----of the seed and stock of Abraham....CHILDREN OF FAITH!
 
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cfultz3

Guest
Very good question.

By whose deeds would you rather be judged by on Judgement Day? Yours? Or the deeds of the Lord Jesus Christ???
If I am a true believer, then I would desire to be judged on my faith, because it says that whosoever believes shall receive everlasting life. And by that faith, the deeds of Jesus Christ have given me righteousness, justification, everlasting life. Those things which I myself could not obtain without Him.

It is said that Jesus will judge the deeds of the individual. Knowing this, I dare not to present myself righteous by the Law before Him. And I also know that my walk with Him cannot be immoral, that His righteous path does have curbs to keep me on that path.
 
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Daley

Guest
I am sure we all agree to that.


Morality is the standard God Himself has set. It is God who has said what is right or wrong before His eyes.


So then, we are to be under the Levitical Covenant, seeing that it would be moral to do so? We are to be circumcised to be in Covenant with God, since it was a law God made and thus, it would be moral to do so? Not all laws from God pertains to morality (that which God has deemed right or wrong before His eyes).


What God has deemed right or wrong before His eyes. A law is moral when it speaks about what action to take in a situation where there is a dilemma presented of which path to take, that one which leads to death or this one which is God's righteous path. If I take that path, then I am not walking on that path. So, which path do I take? Simply, Proverbs are morals, Jesus' command to love is moral, the Ten Commandments are morals. Morals: what God sees as good.


Or Scripture.


Yes it does, Christ's new Law (although not new in that it was already God's Law) is Love. And by love we do satisfy God's moral laws.
When God commanded animal sacrifice he saw it as good, therefore it was moral. God no longer requires animal sacrifice, but that does not mean it was not right (moral) in the days of Moses to offer them up. It was moral, but it still came to an end. If it wasn't a moral law, then it was immoral law, and that is just silly. How can any law God gave not be moral?
 
Mar 23, 2014
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Maybe we are...

Jewtiles or Gentews.........YEAH I KNOW! Seeing how there is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ as he has made the twain unto ONE in Jesus.....humanity back under one banner under God!<----of the seed and stock of Abraham....CHILDREN OF FAITH!
Christ brought us all together

Amen :)-
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Christ brought us all together

Amen :)-
AMEN and I agree....

Originally Posted by dcontroversal
Maybe we are...

Jewtiles or Gentews.........YEAH I KNOW! Seeing how there is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ as he has made the twain unto ONE in Jesus.....humanity back under one banner under God!<----of the seed and stock of Abraham....CHILDREN OF FAITH!
 
Mar 23, 2014
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When God commanded animal sacrifice he saw it as good, therefore it was moral.
The God I know would never command the sacrifice of any living thing, period. Humans wrote the scriptures, some of the writing were inspired by Him and others were inserted for self-serving reasons. The bottom line is simple enough God would NEVER order the killing of what He had created, PERIOD

:)-
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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I agree and will note that I did name humanity...:)

Originally Posted by dcontroversal
I immediately thought of this scripture you posted concerning who killed Jesus.....and it also seems that....

1. The Jews delivered him to be killed at the result of a sham trial that broke their own laws...
2. The Romans also killed him as Pilate gave the death sentence and Roman Soldiers nailed him to the cross after a good ole beat down........
3. The Heavenly Father desired his death as well so as to fulfill His will...
4. Jesus wanting to please the Father laid down his life willingly...
5. Technically Adam is guilty as well, had he not sinned...
6. EVE...Well that's another story...Had she had her head on straight when the serpent.....
7--->number of completion....Humanity over all is guilty as well as Christ did pay humanities sin debt.

And on and on and on.......:)
That last one is kind of sad for me.

I love Him but I also had my conversation with the lust of my flesh and mind, therefore desperately needing His Sacrifice and Righteousness.

The Jews were the enemies of the Gospel for our sakes. We sometimes forget that they were for our sakes.

Now we must show them Grace and Love, what the Lord Jesus has given us, for their sake. I think that is what is meant by love our enemies... It doesn't mean that we have to love their actions or the ideas behind those actions.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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That last one is kind of sad for me.

I love Him but I also had my conversation with the lust of my flesh and mind, therefore desperately needing His Sacrifice and Righteousness.

The Jews were the enemies of the Gospel for our sakes. We sometimes forget that they were for our sakes.

Now we must show them Grace and Love, what the Lord Jesus has given us, for their sake. I think that is what is meant by love our enemies... It doesn't mean that we have to love their actions or the ideas behind those actions.
I agree and I often ask Jesus to forgive me for nailing him to the cross as we are all guilty!
 
Mar 23, 2014
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Others ordered the Roman's to kill Christ and it had nothing to do with "our" sins.

Now that is just my take on it :)-
 
Mar 23, 2014
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People should not call them "Jews". they were Israelites and there is a difference between the two in my view

:)-
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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People should not call them "Jews". they were Israelites and there is a difference between the two in my view

:)-
That is exactly why I call them Jews. Because they practice Judaism.

I don't want to confuse anyone.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
When God commanded animal sacrifice he saw it as good, therefore it was moral. God no longer requires animal sacrifice, but that does not mean it was not right (moral) in the days of Moses to offer them up. It was moral, but it still came to an end. If it wasn't a moral law, then it was immoral law, and that is just silly. How can any law God gave not be moral?
Having thought about what you were saying and having a friend explaining to me, I see what you are saying. Yes, everything spoken by God is moral. I will not argue against that.

You asked me what I meant by 'moral' and I basically gave the definition as 'a behavior's moderator', choosing between what is good or evil and doing what God has determined to be good. If God has decided that walking into a prostitute's house will lead to the road of destruction, then I will take that moral to mean that God deems fornication to be wrong and therefore, because I love Him and He is my Lord, I will not go to a prostitute's house. This is what I mean by moral.

Perhaps, I can say a different word instead of 'moral'?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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If I am a true believer, then I would desire to be judged on my faith, because it says that whosoever believes shall receive everlasting life. And by that faith, the deeds of Jesus Christ have given me righteousness, justification, everlasting life. Those things which I myself could not obtain without Him.

It is said that Jesus will judge the deeds of the individual. Knowing this, I dare not to present myself righteous by the Law before Him. And I also know that my walk with Him cannot be immoral, that His righteous path does have curbs to keep me on that path.
Roger that, Cfultz3

But intellectual belief is not enough, is it. Fruit must be attached to that belief. Otherwise that belief is no belief at all.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Are you also including the moral laws or did Christ make peace between the Jews and Gentiles by abolishing that enmity between them which was caused by those laws which made Jews specifically Jews, those laws pertaining to sacrifice, where He became sacrifice, those laws of high priest, where He became the High Priest, those laws pertaining to the Holy of Holies, where He rent that veil?
Would not the law be the whole law. And not just part of it?

The laws pertaining to the sacrifice, never condemned us, The laws pertaining to high priest, never condemned us, The law pertaining to the holy of holies never condemned us, Jesus fulfilled those laws. Thus they become absolite.

The laws of the commands, or as Paul called them, the words written and engraven in stone, condemn us, Because we have failed to live up to that standard.

What Christ abolished was the penalty.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
Roger that, Cfultz3

But intellectual belief is not enough, is it. Fruit must be attached to that belief. Otherwise that belief is no belief at all.
Grandpa,

Exactly. Hearkening to the Spirit leads to eternal fruits. Surely, the Spirit leads on a moral path and inasmuch as our deeds of love are rewarded, so too are our deeds of walking a straight path with the Spirit, seeing that those who are walking righteously are a delight before God.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
What if I do not love? What is said about not loving? What was the purpose of Jesus commanding us to love and saying that by doing so, we fulfill the Law?

God's moral laws are not dead, we fulfill that Law by love......remember what it says about those who do not love......
so if you love, you will never sin? How can you have perfect love which never sins, and is it possible?