SALVATION ONLY POSSIBLE WITHOUT WORKS!

[notuptome]

Once again it comes down to how you define works. Do you work for salvation....NO. It is a free gift. But can you lose that salvation by the works you do......YES. You can not say you believe in Christ, but serve satan by sinning on a regular basis without remorse, conviction, or repentance.

You do not understand Gods grace. Those who God saved cannot be lost again. Those who God saves by grace are His and are purchased at great cost. You are not you own but Gods. 1 Cor 6:19

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Timeline]

You posted "...you will work". That makes works essential to salvation.

You posted "If you don't work, it shows that you have not accepted Jesus". This means LACK of works proves one is NOT saved which means works prove one is saved making works essential to salvation.


No one has argued one can earn salvation, so that is a non-issue.

I read a post that said the bible doesn't teach death bed salvation. This is because, while it is possible, it is a bad idea for that to be your goal. Someone that lives their whole life in sin with hope of "repenting" right before they die has failed before they started. After living like that it is impossible (or close to being) to change ones heart quickly. However it is possible for someone on their death bed, or paralyzed to receive Jesus and be saved after hearing the word of God. It should not be a preplanned way to salvation though - That is a very, very dangerous game.

 

[Cassian]

[/U][/B]SIMPLE.....Sanctification in a believer's life is an on going process which changes the outward actions by the growth of the regenerated SAVED Spirit that is from God.

Romans 12:1-2...Being TRANSFORMED by the RENEWING OF THE MIND<-----this is what changes the outward actions of a man and is very descriptive of the 4 you twist out of context to tie works to salvation.

And it comes right back to bite you in a self imposed contradiction. If you do not do these works, is one saved? Do you even have faith?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, James' plain point is "that faith without works is dead"

No works = no faith.

No faith no salvation.

James is not saying we are saved by works, He is saying we are not saved because we do not have faith.

James point is to test YOUR faith Not to test SOMEONE elses faith.

His test, If you CLAIM you have faith, BUT HAVE NO WORK. then your faith is dead (non existant) and he agrees with paul. If you have NO FAITH, your not saved, Not now. Not ever.

Your twisting the context of james trying to support your works based gospel will not work. Not now. Not ever.

 

[Alligator]

You do not understand Gods grace. Those who God saved cannot be lost again. Those who God saves by grace are His and are purchased at great cost. You are not you own but Gods. 1 Cor 6:19

For the cause of Christ
Roger

GAL. 5:4; I Tim. 4:1; Heb. 10:26,27; Heb. 6:4-6; II Pet. 2:20-21; and others.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

People say that you do not need works for part of salvation, but that depends on what you define as works. For instance if some believes in Jesus, but continues on a daily basis to sin without remorse, repentance, or conviction that they are still saved. That however is not what the scriptures say. Plus to add why do so many say they believe in Jesus Christ, but write off what He said in the gospels. They mention the part of believing in Him to be saved, but that is only part of what He said.

There is no licentious gospel (which is what you just spoke of) their just as dead as a legalistic gospel these people are trying to promote in here.

Both are based on lack of true repentance and faith. And based on faith in SELF, and NOT GOD.

 

[notuptome]

And it comes right back to bite you in a self imposed contradiction. If you do not do these works, is one saved? Do you even have faith?

If one has faith it comes from hearing the word of God. Rom 10:17

What works must a man do to be saved? Do you have a list of approved works that confirm of deny salvation? Can any man do these works?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hebrews teaches the same thing that James teaches. And in the book of Hebrews it says you can not sin willfully after being saved or you will find yourself at judgment and a fiery expectation. For that is the falling away the bible speaks of as well as a carnal mind that Jesus says can not inherit the kingdom. You can not serve to masters.

so your saying you are perfect and do not sin??

or your trying to excuse your sin by saying it was not willfull. Which is it?

 

[dcontroversal]

And it comes right back to bite you in a self imposed contradiction. If you do not do these works, is one saved? Do you even have faith?

It is obvious you do not understand salvation, justification and sanctification in a believer's life....

The Spirit is born of God, saved and Justified before God by faith....that still leaves the body of sin to be dealt with and it's sanctification is an ongoing process....has nothing to do with salvation, does not keep us saved, will not cause us to loose our salvation.....

Salvation is obtained by belief period......keep trusting in your works dude and your end result will be obvious!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This post tell me you should have stayed where you were

No,

If I stayed where I was I would still be like you.

Trying to save myself

Afraid of losing my salvation if I am not good enough

Trying to hard not to sin, instead of trying so hard to see where God wants me to serve.

Again, You do not even know where you are.

 

[SeaBass]

Once again it comes down to how you define works. Do you work for salvation....NO. It is a free gift. But can you lose that salvation by the works you do......YES. You can not say you believe in Christ, but serve satan by sinning on a regular basis without remorse, conviction, or repentance.

Hi,

Here is the issue some do not or just refuse to understand.......free gifts (salvation) can come with conditions (belief, repentance, confession and baptism) and meeting those condtions do NOT earn the free gift.


Naaman healing was by grace but that free gift of grace came with the work of dipping 7 times. So when Naaman dipped he came away clean. So was his healing by grace or did his work in dipping earn his healing?


A very simply, personal example I can give you is about two weeks ago a friend gave me a certificate that entitles the holder of that certificate to a free one large, one topping pizza. I did nothing to deserve that certificate, she gave it to me out of her good grace. If I had done "no works" then I would have NEVER gotten the free pizza. So I had to do the work of calling & placing the order and then going and getting the pizza. Did those works earn me the free pizza? No, but they were necessary conditions that came attached to that free gift. Faith only propoents will never "get it" until they understand the simplicity of free gifts coming with conditions. As I sit here and think about it, most all of the free gifts I have received in my life, as this certificate, came with conditions.

 

[Cassian]

[/B][/U]

And to take your twist to the fullest extent here...WHY do we need Jesus if the above bolded are ties to salvation...

1. Save thyself
2. Seeing you have purified your souls
3. Work out your own salvation
4. Purge himself

If I take your line of thought then I don't need Jesus, the H.S. and or the word of God......

Here again is a good example of your confusion. What Christ did and accomplished for man has nothing to do with what this discussion is all about. Christ saved you and the entire world from death and sin. He did this so you could be freely united with Him in a personal relationship. Christ did not save you to a relationship, but saved you so you could have a relationship.
We as individuals are NOT being saved by Christ, but are being saved through our faith. because He freed us from the bondage to death and sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No Doubt and notice what he really teaches....

If works have nothing at all to do with salvation, that means a person can do any kind of works he wants to in order to become a Christian. Can one become a Christian by doing evil, wicked sinful works? According to this thread he can.

It also means a Christian, instead of doing good works, can do evil, sinful, wicked works and still maintain his salvation since works have NOTHING at all to do with salvation.

He teaches works for salvation.....NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS HAVE WE DONE......

It does not get any plainer than that.

They excuse their own sin. They do not know the law.

They claim we love sin, When in fact is is them, Because if they knew the law. they would know and understand no amount of obedience or work could ever save them from themselves and their sin. They could only see the righteous judgment of God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Once again it comes down to how you define works. Do you work for salvation....NO. It is a free gift. But can you lose that salvation by the works you do......YES. You can not say you believe in Christ, but serve satan by sinning on a regular basis without remorse, conviction, or repentance.

You just contradicted yourself.

I can not earn it to get it But If I do not earn it, I can not keep it.

It is the same as saying I must earn it to get it.

God did not give me a downpayment to keep as long as I am good,, He gave me a gift.

 

[dcontroversal]

so your saying you are perfect and do not sin??

or your trying to excuse your sin by saying it was not willfull. Which is it?

Yeah no doubt....He seems to vacillate and is hard to follow....sometimes he seems to lean one way and then seems to lean the other way so as to not make a stand...this I have noticed on numerous occasions.

 

[notuptome]

GAL. 5:4; I Tim. 4:1; Heb. 10:26,27; Heb. 6:4-6; II Pet. 2:20-21; and others.

It is now obvious that you do not understand context when citing your favorite verses. Or you just don't care. In either case you remain unlearned.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God does not need anything from me. Yet if I have the need and desire for God to save me, then my faith must be an obedient one as God has said.

Strawman.

I asked, Does God need you to work, to know if your faith is real? yes or no..

 

[Cassian]

You do not understand Gods grace. Those who God saved cannot be lost again. Those who God saves by grace are His and are purchased at great cost. You are not you own but Gods. 1 Cor 6:19

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Which is an entirely different aspect of our salvation. The salvation you are speaking about is the "Gift of salvation, "grace" given to all men. It is given so that each individual could respond to God to enter into a relationship. It is this relationship we are discussing. NOT what Christ accomplished for us, for the world.

 

[dcontroversal]

You just contradicted yourself.

I can not earn it to get it But If I do not earn it, I can not keep it.

It is the same as saying I must earn it to get it.

God did not give me a downpayment to keep as long as I am good,, He gave me a gift.

Awesome response....same thing with Sea Perch.....as I noted above....one minute the argument is mute and the next you have to work or your not saved.....

 

[SeaBass]

Yes it is.

we are saved by faith apart from works.. lest anyone should boast.

what part of zero works do you not understand?






yep. but he was saved before he obeyed one command.

One is lost in sin/disobedience until he obeys. Saul was lost in his sins until he obeyed by submitting to baptism to have his sins washed away. He remained in his sins until he was baptized.