SALVATION ONLY POSSIBLE WITHOUT WORKS!

[dcontroversal]

fear God's discipline, but don't fear Him disowning you.
God does not make mistakes in His foreknowledge and sovereign election.

If we sin, our Father will discipline His child. Fear the discipline of the Lord, because He is active in this world, and will surely chasten those He loves.

Salvation is not at stake, but your life is certainly on the line!
If a person is unrepentant, then they are displaying their lack of faith, meaning they do not have the Holy Spirit, meaning they never truly believed.

Or they are backslidden and in willful sin and should expect chastisement of the Lord and possibly the loss of rewards and or their own life....I will concede that if they can live a lifestyle of unrepentant sin without being whipped or killed by God then they are illegitimate and were never saved to begin with.

 

[LT]

I do not fear God disowning me for I know I am saved and that I strive hard to live right.

I do however believe what Jesus taught, and I will teach that to others....Jesus says their are some who believe in Him that will not inherit the kingdom. Why is that ???

That's right by the things that they do....

Jesus taught that no man can enter the Kingdom of God.

We are no longer ourselves, but a part of Christ, so we enter by His work.

 

[dcontroversal]

let's see if we can keep this simple for you.

paul: justified (declared righteous) freely by grace through faith (reckoned/counted/imputed as righteousness). saved. eternally, given GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT as a downpayment until God takes possession.

james: justified (shown to be righteous) by works.

no contradiction.

a justified man with a new heart will do good things, thereby being shown to be righteous (justified).

Good luck with that brother....they reject plain truth in favor of lies and heretical doctrines which do not lead to heaven, but rather hell....

 

[dcontroversal]

Jesus taught that no man can enter the Kingdom of God.

We are no longer ourselves, but a part of Christ, so we enter by His work.

I agree with this.....and by faith we are joint heirs of Christ based upon His finished, completed work and by exercising genuine faith into the faith OF Jesus...Key word being OF

 

[Elin]

Rom 5:6-10 is all about the reconciliation of the world through Christ to God.

We have irresolvable differences that remove all bases for examining the Scriptures with you.

You accept an authority outside the Scriptures
which can authorize what the Scriptures do not state.

Your self-evident error means

you are wasting your time and our time here.

 

[kennethcadwell]

You left out half of that, " No man can enter unless born again of water and spirit. "

His works gave us salvation, but we have to do the work of accepting Him as Lord and Savior.

Jesus taught that no man can enter the Kingdom of God.

We are no longer ourselves, but a part of Christ, so we enter by His work.

 

[dcontroversal]

how many lack of works would cause one to lose salvation? and then how many would it take to save them again.

do you even listen to what you say?

I guess we can gain it loose it gain it loose it gain it loose it gain it loose it gain it loose it gain it loose it gain it loose it like how many times?....Absurdity is a word that comes to mind....

So for all of you who say you can loose your salvation and Keep it by works...


HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU BEEN SAVED AND OR LOST YOUR SALVATION TO REGAIN IT?

 

[dcontroversal]

We have irresolvable differences that remove all bases for examining the Scriptures with you.

You accept an authority outside the Scriptures
which can authorize what the Scriptures do not state.

Your self-evident error means

you are wasting your time and our time here.

I agree and will add..

Ole Cassius is like the guy in Acts...Almost thou persuades me to be a Christian....Too bad he trusts into a heretical doctrine that has no power to save....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You left out half of that, " No man can enter unless born again of water and spirit. "

His works gave us salvation, but we have to do the work of accepting Him as Lord and Savior.

No I think you got this alittle mixed up.

No man can unter unless he is first cleansed. How are we cleansed. By the work of God. (titus 3: 5)

it is not our works of rightiousness, But his mercy which saves us by the washing and new birth of the Holy Spirit.

which is what LT was trying to show you

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree and will add..

Ole Cassius is like the guy in Acts...Almost thou persuades me to be a Christian....Too bad he trusts into a heretical doctrine that has no power to save....

like the religious pharisees (who his church resembles.) who did not think they needed saved, because they had history, Tradition, words of men, And the writings of their fathers,

If you do not think you need saved, no one can ever convince you you still need to be saved.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Again lets see what Jesus says, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. "

Why does Jesus say this, it is to make a point that you are to be forgiven a pretty much unreachable amount of times. Then He goes this is a liken to the kingdom of heaven to show that if you fall away but then come back in repentance you will be forgiven no matter how many times you fall cause you will never reach that point of not forgiven. Unless you are not repentant for your sin, then He will spit you out.

I guess we can gain it loose it gain it loose it gain it loose it gain it loose it gain it loose it gain it loose it gain it loose it like how many times?....Absurdity is a word that comes to mind....

So for all of you who say you can loose your salvation and Keep it by works...


HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU BEEN SAVED AND OR LOST YOUR SALVATION TO REGAIN IT?

 

[kennethcadwell]

Once again though Jesus did not do away with or condemn the laws. He even told those that went to here them to do as they say, but do not do as they do. They preached the law and that is what the people were told to follow, but the Pharisees did not obey the law themselves....They turned the House of God into a business which unfortunately is what we see in most churches today. They took peoples money for wrong reasons, not for the use to help others. Plus they were showing discrimination in their acts, and they also made what they did a public spectacle. Boasting about what they did and making a show out of it so that they took all the credit.

like the religious pharisees (who his church resembles.) who did not think they needed saved, because they had history, Tradition, words of men, And the writings of their fathers,

If you do not think you need saved, no one can ever convince you you still need to be saved.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Again lets see what Jesus says, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. "

Why does Jesus say this, it is to make a point that you are to be forgiven a pretty much unreachable amount of times. Then He goes this is a liken to the kingdom of heaven to show that if you fall away but then come back in repentance you will be forgiven no matter how many times you fall cause you will never reach that point of not forgiven. Unless you are not repentant for your sin, then He will spit you out.

yes he did say forgive 70 X 7

Did he say only if your brother repented?

Did he say only if your brother was convicted?

Did he say only if your brother felt sorry for his sin?

No. He said forgive, unconditional forgiveness is what God preaches.

so is God telling us to do what he will not do?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Once again though Jesus did not do away with or condemn the laws. He even told those that went to here them to do as they say, but do not do as they do. They preached the law and that is what the people were told to follow, but the Pharisees did not obey the law themselves....They turned the House of God into a business which unfortunately is what we see in most churches today. They took peoples money for wrong reasons, not for the use to help others. Plus they were showing discrimination in their acts, and they also made what they did a public spectacle. Boasting about what they did and making a show out of it so that they took all the credit.

I do not think this is the case.

Jesus did tell them how much sin would cause them to be lost. He said whoever does not confirm ALL the words of this las by obeying them will be cursed.

Thus, he told them (and us) how many works it will take to gain salvation (perfection) and how much would it would take to lose salvation (break one command) as The NT confirms "for if you break even the least of these commands yuo guilty of the whole law)


The pharisees did not get this, thats why they rejected Christ They thought the law saved them, when in actuality it condemned them.

 

[danalee]

yes he did say forgive 70 X 7

Did he say only if your brother repented?

Did he say only if your brother was convicted?

Did he say only if your brother felt sorry for his sin?

No. He said forgive, unconditional forgiveness is what God preaches.

so is God telling us to do what he will not do?

YES....most superb and awesome post.

I was just telling my daughter that a friend of ours is really upset right now that someone was being judgmental. He's super sensitive about any criticism and he starts to punish people around him because internally he is punishing himself. This is the point where he fails and needs Christ. So I praise God when this message is spoken well like you've just done.

The reason he is so hard on himself is because he wields around judgments on other people - so when it comes to his own forgiveness, there is none - because he cannot forgive anyone else. So he suffers, and will keep suffering until he comes to know Christ and his teachings.

Truth is so loud.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I have to go for now, but I will leave you with this. I have known a few people that have fallen away. One was a guy I ran into who was born and raised in a Baptist family. He was baptized in Jesus name, confessed Jesus Lord and Savior, and repented of his sins. He lived all the way tell he was 25 a good life striving to live how Jesus says for us. At 25 however he lost his wife in a horrible accident, they had been married for 3 years. He ended up through hatred refusing that God existed, and joined a group where he and others spent the next 11 years debating the bible trying to prove it false. If Jesus was mentioned he would argue how he was just a mere man and a false prophet.

I met him when he was 36 and I over hear him conversing with another about the falsehood of the bible. I started talking to him and after a month of debates, showing him the scriptures again, and showing Gods love I opened his eyes again. He broke down and started crying saying, "How could I have been so wrong. " " How could I have turned my back on God. "
I told him don't worry God is calling you back into His love and grace. All you need to do is repent, and confess Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. He did this and even went further by asking me if I would baptize him again. At first I said I am not sure that would be proper, but I went back and prayed and I was given my answer that I could baptize him. So I went to him the next day and told him I would. He thanked me, but I told him no, thank God.

Point is if the Lord did not use me to speak to him he would probably still be lost today. A clear story of one who was once saved, turned their back on God, but then was brought back into that salvation.


If you say this can not happen, then it is the same as condemning those who this has happened to because to you they can't be saved again, or were never saved in the first place. If you talk to him or another from the same position they will clearly argue or debate your reasoning.

 

[Apostol2013]

2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2Ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
2Ti 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
2Ti 3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
2Ti 3:11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[Apostol2013]

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Mat 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
Mat 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Apostol2013]

Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
1Co 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
1Co 6:13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
1Co 6:14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
1Co 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
1Co 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
1Co 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's

 

[Apostol2013]

Rev 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Rev 2:3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.