Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?

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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
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The Sabbath is part of the ceremonial law, and it was fulfilled by Jesus for in Him we now have rest.

But if you want to observe it there is nothing wrong with that at all, but we are not held to Saturday as evident by scripture especially Romans 14:5 and Colossians 2:16.
Colossians 2:13-23, " 13 You were dead through your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh. He made you alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 wiping out the handwriting in ordinances which was against us; and he has taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross; 15 having stripped the principalities and the powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16 Let no one therefore judge you in eating, or in drinking, or with respect to a feast day or a new moon or a Sabbath day, 17 which are a shadow of the things to come; but the body is Messiah’s. 18 Let no one rob you of your prize by a voluntary humility and worshiping of the angels, dwelling in the things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding firmly to the Head, from whom all the body, being supplied and knit together through the joints and ligaments, grows with God’s growth. 20 If you died with Messiah from the elements of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to ordinances, 21 “Don’t handle, nor taste, nor touch” 22 (all of which perish with use), according to the precepts and doctrines of men? 23 Which things indeed appear like wisdom in self-imposed worship, and humility, and severity to the body; but aren’t of any value against the indulgence of the flesh. "

Feasts that Yahweh says should be kept for all generations are promoted in the NT:

1 Corinthians 5:7-8, "Therefore, purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new batch, since you are unleavened. For truly Yahshua our Passover was sacrificed for us. Therefore, let us keep the Feast (1858), not with bold leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth."

1858 - heortazo
heortazo: I keep a feast
Original Word: ἑορτάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: heortazo
Phonetic Spelling: (heh-or-tad'-zo)
Short Definition: I keep a feast
Definition: I take part in a festival, keep a feast
keep the feast - see GREEK heorte
From heorte; to observe a festival -- keep the feast

1859 - heorté
heorté: a feast, a festival
Original Word: ἑορτή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: heorté
Phonetic Spelling: (heh-or-tay')
Short Definition: a festival, feast
Definition: a festival, feast, periodically recurring.
Word Origin - of uncertain derivation
Definition - a feast, a festival

Acts 18:21, "But bade them farewell, saying; I must by all means keep this Feast (word #G1859) that comes in Yerusalem; but I will return again to you, if Yahweh wills. And he sailed from Ephesus."

Acts 20:16, "For Shaul had decided to sail past Ephesus, so that he would not have to spend time in Asia; for he hurried, so it would be possible for him to celebrate the Day of Pentecost (word#H4005) at Yerusalem."

4005 - pentékosté
pentékosté: fiftieth, Pentecost, the second of the three great Jewish feasts
Original Word: πεντηκοστή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pentékosté
Phonetic Spelling: (pen-tay-kos-tay')
Short Definition: Pentecost
Definition: Pentecost, a feast of the Jews, the fiftieth day after Passover

Leviticus 23:2, "Speak to the children of Israyl, and say to them; Concerning the Feasts of Yahweh, which you shall proclaim to be Holy Convocations; these are My Feasts."

Most resources call the ,"Jewish" Feasts, but Yahweh calls them His Feasts, they are not for Jews only.

Exodus 12:48-49, "And when a stranger lives among you and wants to sacrifice the Passover to Yahweh, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near, and sacrifice it; and he shall be as a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it. One Law shall be for the nativeborn and for the stranger who dwells among you."

Numbers 15:15-16, "One ordinance shall be for you of the congregation, and for the stranger who sojourns with you, as an ordinance forever throughout your generations. As you are, so shall the stranger be in front of Yahweh. One Law and one manner shall be for you and for the stranger who asojourns with you."

Acts 27:9, "Since much time had passed, and the voyage was already dangerous because The Fast (word #G3521), had already gone by, Shaul warned them,"

3521 - nésteia
nésteia: fasting, a fast
Original Word: νηστεία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: nésteia
Phonetic Spelling: (nace-ti'-ah)
Short Definition: fasting, the day of atonement
Definition: fasting, the day of atonement

13 You were dead through your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh. He made you alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,

14 wiping out the handwriting in ordinances which was against us; and he has taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross;

15 having stripped the principalities and the powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

16 Let no one therefore judge you in eating, or in drinking, or with respect to a feast day or a new moon or a Sabbath day,

17 which are a shadow of the things to come; but the body is Messiah’s.

18 Let no one rob you of your prize by a voluntary humility and worshiping of the angels, dwelling in the things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

19 and not holding firmly to the Head, from whom all the body, being supplied and knit together through the joints and ligaments, grows with God’s growth.

20 If you died with Messiah from the elements of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to ordinances,

So he is saying if your dead to the world why would you subject yourself to its (the worlds) ordinances. To think he is saying if your dead to the world then why would you subject yourself to Yahweh"s/Yahshua's Commandments would make no sense, but he explains it further.

21 “Don’t handle, nor taste, nor touch”

the pharisees had a law in which you could not eat meat and cheese togather, or even within 4 houhs of eachother. Now this is not in Yahweh's Law even, Yahweh's Law says dont boil a goat in its mothers milk (3 times) (the local pagans had this as a religious practice Yahweh did not want His people to partake in these evil pagan practices) the pharisees using something called "midrashic interpretation" the pharisees looked at it and said well since it says this three times it must meant three different things. SO THEY MADE UP THEIR OWN LAW, that was completely disconnected from Scripture and enforced it as from Yahweh.

22 (all of which perish with use), according to the precepts and doctrines of men?

So here very clearly he states "the commandments of men", now if you read from 16-20 you see he stays on topic, and 20 says basically if your dead to the world why do what the world tells you, so we can see he is still on this topic from v16. In this verse 22, he says "which are all for destruction", how does Sabbath lead to destruction and it would also have to be a "commandment of men" if there is ant commandment that is the farthest thing possible from being a "commandment of men" it is the Sabbath, it was from creation and it shows the AUTHORITY of the Creator, the mark of the Creator. Also tying a "commandment of men" to destruction Romans 8:13, "For if you live according to the commandments of men, you will die; but if, through the Spirit, you put to death; put an end to, the evildoing of mankind, you will live."

23 Which things indeed appear like wisdom in self-imposed worship, and humility, and severity to the body; but aren’t of any value against the indulgence of the flesh.

Pleasing of the pharisees by following the talmud. v22 for context = "after the commands and teachings of men"

you see the pharisees would have a problem if you did things according to Yahweh's instruction and not their ORAL LAW, this is shown in MATT 15, 23, mark 7:7-9, etc

If you kept the Sabbath NOT according to the Talmud but according to the Scriptures the Pharisees would have a problem.

Matt 12:10 & 12, "And, behold, there was a man who had a withered hand. Then they asked
Him, saying; Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath Days?--so that they might accuse Him."
"And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."

The "Rabbis" also made their own holidays, such as Rosh hashanna and more. They also had their own day and way of "celebrating" Yahweh's Feast Days as opposed to what Yahweh said. When they left babylon they even changed the names of the moons (months), and rosh hashanna even changes the time of the new year, commandment and ordinances of men. the calendar Yahweh instuted is Yahweh's calendar, the one who created it created the heavens and the earth. Our current calendar is the gregorian calendar, which goes back to the bablonian calendar. Yahweh said the days end and begin at sunset, not the "Rabbis."

% made up "feast days" the Pharisees may had, brought you to trial, beat, imprisoned, or even killed you for not honoring. The Talmud tells a story of another "Rabbi" disagreeing and wanting to follow the Scriptures, and the head Pharisees makes then man, on threat of death appear in public on a Scriptual Feast Day in a way that the man cant honor Yahweh, thus commanding him to disobey Yahweh.

Rosh Hashanah (New Year)
Rosh Hashanah occurs on the first and second days of Tishri (the 7th moon or month, Yahweh's year starts in the 1st month). In Hebrew, Rosh Hashanah means, literally, "head of the year" or "first of the year." Rosh Hashanah is commonly known as the Jewish New Year.

How does the year start in the 7th month? According to the Scriptures and Yahweh;s calendar the year starts in the 1st month, Abib.

Chanukkah
On the 25th of Kislev are the days of Chanukkah, which are eight... these were appointed a Festival with Hallel [prayers of praise] and thanksgiving. -Shabbat 21b, Babylonian Talmud

Tu B'Shevat
There are four new years... the first of Shevat is the new year for trees according to the ruling of Beit Shammai; Beit Hillel, however, places it on the fifteenth of that month. -Mishnah Rosh Hashanah 1:1

Purim
Is one of the most joyous and fun holidays on the Jewish calendar. It commemorates a time when the Jewish people living in Persia were saved from extermination.

Tisha B'Av
Five misfortunes befell our fathers ... on the ninth of Av. ...On the ninth of Av it was decreed that our fathers should not enter the [Promised] Land, the Temple was destroyed the first and second time, Bethar was captured and the city [Jerusalem] was ploughed up. -Mishnah Ta'anit 4:6

1 Corinthians 15:50-54, "Now I say this brothers: that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh; neither does corruption inherit incorruption.Behold, I show you a secret truth: we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet (word #G4536). For the trumpet will sound (word #G4537), and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible will have put on incorruption, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will be brought to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory."

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, "For Yahshua Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the malak gadol, and with the trumpet (word #G4536) of Yahweh. And the dead in Messiah will be raised first, Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet Yahshua in the air; and so will we ever be with Yahshua."

4536 - salpigx
salpigx: a trumpet
Original Word: σάλπιγξ, ιγγος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: salpigx
Phonetic Spelling: (sal'-pinx)
Short Definition: a trumpet
Definition: a trumpet, the sound of a trumpet
Word Origin - from salpizó
Definition - a trumpet

4537 - salpizó
salpizó: to sound a trumpet
Original Word: σαλπίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: salpizó
Phonetic Spelling: (sal-pid'-zo)
Short Definition: I sound a trumpet
Definition: I sound a trumpet.
Word Origin - of uncertain origin
Definition - to sound a trumpet

Genesis 1:14, "And Yahweh said: Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark the Feasts (word #H4150) , and for days (word #H3117) and years."

Leviticus 23:4, "These are the Feasts (word #H4150) of Yahweh, His Holy Convocations, which you shall proclaim in their seasons."

4150 - moed
moed: appointed time, place, or meeting
Original Word: מוֹעֵד
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: moed
Phonetic Spelling: (mo-ade')
Short Definition: meeting
Word Origin - from yaad
Definition - appointed time, place, or meeting

3117 - yom
yom: day
Original Word: יוֹם
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: yom
Phonetic Spelling: (yome)
Short Definition: day

Hebrews 4:1-11, "Therefore, since a promise of mentering His rest remains, let us fear so that none of you should come short of it. For this message was preached to us, as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not benefit them, because they did not share in the faith of those who obeyed-- However, we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: So I vowed in My wrath, They will not enter into My rest, although the works were finished from the foundation of the world, For He spoke in a certain place of the Seventh Day, in this way: And Yahweh rested the Seventh Day from all His works. And in this place again: If they will enter into My rest. Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, Again, He designates a certain day, saying in David: ''Today,'' after so long a time, as it has been said: Today, if you will hear His voice, do not harden your hearts. If Yahshua (ben Nun) had given them rest he would not have spoken afterward of another day. Therefore, there remains the keeping of the Sabbath (word G#4520) to the people of Yahweh, For he who has entered into His rest (word G#2663) has also ceased from his own works, as Yahweh did from His. Therefore, let us be zealous to enter into that rest (word G#2663), so that no one may fall after the same example of unbelief."

4520 - sabbatismos
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Short Definition: a Sabbath rest
Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.
Word Origin - from a derivation of sabbaton
Definition - a sabbath rest

2663 - katapausis
katapausis: rest
Original Word: κατάπαυσις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: katapausis
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-ap'-ow-sis)
Short Definition: resting, rest
Definition: (in the Old Testament of the rest attained by the settlement in Canaan), resting, rest, dwelling, habitation.
Word Origin - from katapauó
Definition - rest

Contrast words 4520 from Hebrews 4:9 to all the other "NT" mentions of Sabbath:

Hebrews 4:9, "Therefore, there remains the keeping of the Sabbath (word G#4520) to the people of Yahweh."

4520 - sabbatismos
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Short Definition: a Sabbath rest
Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.
Word Origin - from a derivation of sabbaton
Definition - a sabbath rest
1 Occurrence

4521 - sabbaton
sabbaton: the Sabbath, i.e. the seventh day (of the week)
Original Word: σάββατον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: sabbaton
Phonetic Spelling: (sab'-bat-on)
Short Definition: the Sabbath, a week
Definition: the Sabbath, a week.
Word Origin - of Hebrew origin shabbath
Definition - the Sabbath, i.e. the seventh day (of the week)
68 Occurrences

Revelation 20:4, "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them. And I saw the souls of those who were beheaded for their witness of Yahshua and for the word of Yahweh, and who had not worshiped the beast, nor his likeness, neither had received his mark in their foreheads nor upon their hands; and fthey lived and reigned with the Messiah a thousand years."

Revelation 20:6, "Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection; on such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of Yahweh and of the Messiah, and will reign with Him a thousand years."

2 Kepha (Peter) 3:8, "But, beloved, do not forget this one thing: that with Yahweh, one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

This verse (Hebrews 4:8) has been translated 2 different ways, one as "Jesus" the other as "Joshua"

English Standard Version
For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on.

King James Bible
For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

"Joshua" son of Nun (Yahshua ben Nun) is the one being talked about here, not Yahshua the Messiah (Jesus).

You know then the Israylites entered the promised land, yet this was not the real promised land, it was a foreshadow of the kingdom of Yahweh in the 1000yr reign.

Thus, "a promise of entering His rest remains"

A promise we are still looking forward to today! and the 7th day Sabbath is the weekly shadow picture of this 1000yr reign to remind us hat we have to look forward to, if one reads Hebrews 4 with this in mind, one will understand the true meaning of it. Not some modern, no understanding, 2000 yrs detached gentile butchering of it. (not implying you look at it like this, but it is commonly misunderstood)
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
I don't and nobody can, the scriptures make this evident, but we are still to try to follow those moral standards that is what Jesus pointed out. Now when we fail we no longer have to sacrifice, but just repent for the sin and He will forgive us.



How good are you at keeping those ten. and what is the requirement of God in keeping those ten?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I don't and nobody can, the scriptures make this evident, but we are still to try to follow those moral standards that is what Jesus pointed out. Now when we fail we no longer have to sacrifice, but just repent for the sin and He will forgive us.
I thought Christ died 2000 years ago. Did he forgive those sins or did he not?

How can he chose us before the foundation of the world if he did not already forgive those sins

God did not replace levitical sacrifice with out work of feeling sorry for our sin did he? this makes no sense
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,736
3,667
113
it is funny, They yell that the pharisees added to the law. Which is correct.

But they subtract from the law. And still deamnd (as the pharisees) everyone follow there perverted version of the law.

so in reality, they are just as bad,
It's also funny/sad that Hizikyah ran off without ever answering my question I twice asked him. posts 1525 and 1537(I don't think they can.)
 
Last edited:
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
It's also funny/sad that Hizikyah ran off without ever answering my question. (I don't think they can.)
they can't thus they will keep coming back with the same arguments, I am so glad I got out of that legalistic mindframe. I used to do the same thing.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
It is moral, but not in the since that we are still held to Saturday. It is moral in the since that through Jesus we have rest. Hebrews talks about this.

Right, so not all the 10 are moral, another example of the problems we run into when we start categorizing them.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
He forgave past, and present sins at that time..yes.....But He also said that you must repent of future sins.

I thought Christ died 2000 years ago. Did he forgive those sins or did he not?

How can he chose us before the foundation of the world if he did not already forgive those sins

God did not replace levitical sacrifice with out work of feeling sorry for our sin did he? this makes no sense
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
For sake of argument let's say you are right,(though I don't agree) then you are saying that you are under the 613 commands in the Mosaic Law since it is a whole inseparable unit and that if you break one you have broken all. No where in Gods Word does it separate them into categories of moral/civil/ceremonial, it is a WHOLE. That also means you need a Levitical Priest and Temple.
So Please answer me clearly, are we as believers under the Mosaic Covenant/Law?
There is no separation, there is Yahweh;s Law and as the Messiah said:

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Since heaven and earth didnt pass and not all has been fulfilled, NOTHING HAS PASSED FROM THE LAW.

SO the next question is usually what about animal Sacrifice and the priesthood?

The true Passover Lamb has been Sacrificed, however without a Law stating sacrifice can be the remission of sin, a sacrifice even the Sacrifice would be useless. Us being born 2,000 years later would not be able to have our sins cleansed if this law were done away, no the Law is still valid and the Sacrifice has been fulfilled, all one has to do is accept it, and they have Sacrificed and they are cleansed.

The priesthood, one if one is not a levite being a priest was NEVER their job, and now since the priesthood has been transferred it is not the job of any human to be a priest in the priesthood, but rether the job of Messiah He is currently carrying out, for surely Yahshua is the intercessor for the children of Yahweh.

Oh, and my question go unanswered 99% of the time...
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
Hebrews 4:9 applies to Joshua, Hebrews 4:10 applies to Jesus is our rest.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
It is moral, but not in the since that we are still held to Saturday. It is moral in the since that through Jesus we have rest. Hebrews talks about this.
The Sabbath is a prophetic shadow picture of the 1,000 year reign,

Man has lived on this earth for about 6,000 years, the Messiah will reign for 1,000 years... the week is a microcosm of this 7,000 years.

something none have entered into yet, that is why it says in Hebrew 4:1

Hebrews 4:1, "Therefore, since a promise of mentering His rest remains, let us fear so that none of you should come short of it."

The promise remains, it has not yet been fulfilled.

Hebrews 4:1-11, "Therefore, since a promise of mentering His rest remains, let us fear so that none of you should come short of it. For this message was preached to us, as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not benefit them, because they did not share in the faith of those who obeyed-- However, we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: So I vowed in My wrath, They will not enter into My rest, although the works were finished from the foundation of the world, For He spoke in a certain place of the Seventh Day, in this way: And Yahweh rested the Seventh Day from all His works. And in this place again: If they will enter into My rest. Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, Again, He designates a certain day, saying in David: ''Today,'' after so long a time, as it has been said: Today, if you will hear His voice, do not harden your hearts. If Yahshua (ben Nun) had given them rest he would not have spoken afterward of another day. Therefore, there remains the keeping of the Sabbath (word G#4520) to the people of Yahweh, For he who has entered into His rest (word G#2663) has also ceased from his own works, as Yahweh did from His. Therefore, let us be zealous to enter into that rest (word G#2663), so that no one may fall after the same example of unbelief."

4520 - sabbatismos
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Short Definition: a Sabbath rest
Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.
Word Origin - from a derivation of sabbaton
Definition - a sabbath rest

2663 - katapausis
katapausis: rest
Original Word: κατάπαυσις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: katapausis
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-ap'-ow-sis)
Short Definition: resting, rest
Definition: (in the Old Testament of the rest attained by the settlement in Canaan), resting, rest, dwelling, habitation.
Word Origin - from katapauó
Definition - rest

Contrast words 4520 from Hebrews 4:9 to all the other "NT" mentions of Sabbath:

Hebrews 4:9, "Therefore, there remains the keeping of the Sabbath (word G#4520) to the people of Yahweh."

4520 - sabbatismos
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Short Definition: a Sabbath rest
Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.
Word Origin - from a derivation of sabbaton
Definition - a sabbath rest
1 Occurrence

4521 - sabbaton
sabbaton: the Sabbath, i.e. the seventh day (of the week)
Original Word: σάββατον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: sabbaton
Phonetic Spelling: (sab'-bat-on)
Short Definition: the Sabbath, a week
Definition: the Sabbath, a week.
Word Origin - of Hebrew origin shabbath
Definition - the Sabbath, i.e. the seventh day (of the week)
68 Occurrences

Revelation 20:4, "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them. And I saw the souls of those who were beheaded for their witness of Yahshua and for the word of Yahweh, and who had not worshiped the beast, nor his likeness, neither had received his mark in their foreheads nor upon their hands; and fthey lived and reigned with the Messiah a thousand years."

Revelation 20:6, "Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection; on such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of Yahweh and of the Messiah, and will reign with Him a thousand years."

2 Kepha (Peter) 3:8, "But, beloved, do not forget this one thing: that with Yahweh, one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

This verse (Hebrews 4:8) has been translated 2 different ways, one as "Jesus" the other as "Joshua"

English Standard Version
For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on.

King James Bible
For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

"Joshua" son of Nun (Yahshua ben Nun) is the one being talked about here, not Yahshua the Messiah (Jesus).

You know then the Israylites entered the promised land, yet this was not the real promised land, it was a foreshadow of the kingdom of Yahweh in the 1000yr reign.

Thus, "a promise of entering His rest remains"

A promise we are still looking forward to today! and the 7th day Sabbath is the weekly shadow picture of this 1000yr reign to remind us hat we have to look forward to, if one reads Hebrews 4 with this in mind, one will understand the true meaning of it. Not some modern, no understanding, 2000 yrs detached gentile butchering of it. (not implying you look at it like this, but it is commonly misunderstood)
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,736
3,667
113
It is moral, but not in the since that we are still held to Saturday. It is moral in the since that through Jesus we have rest. Hebrews talks about this.
Moral? You said in post #1538 ceremonial.
Stealing is immoral everyday. Is walking too far immoral everyday?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,736
3,667
113
There is no separation, there is Yahweh;s Law and as the Messiah said:

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Since heaven and earth didnt pass and not all has been fulfilled, NOTHING HAS PASSED FROM THE LAW.

SO the next question is usually what about animal Sacrifice and the priesthood?

The true Passover Lamb has been Sacrificed, however without a Law stating sacrifice can be the remission of sin, a sacrifice even the Sacrifice would be useless. Us being born 2,000 years later would not be able to have our sins cleansed if this law were done away, no the Law is still valid and the Sacrifice has been fulfilled, all one has to do is accept it, and they have Sacrificed and they are cleansed.

The priesthood, one if one is not a levite being a priest was NEVER their job, and now since the priesthood has been transferred it is not the job of any human to be a priest in the priesthood, but rether the job of Messiah He is currently carrying out, for surely Yahshua is the intercessor for the children of Yahweh.

Oh, and my question go unanswered 99% of the time...
No, the next question is...are you keeping all the 613 that apply to you in the light of...

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
(Jas 2:10)

Certainly all who depend on the actions of the Law are under a curse. For it is written, "A curse on everyone who does not obey everything that is written in the Book of the Law!"
(Gal 3:10)

"Cursed is the one who doesn't uphold the words of this Law and observe them. "Then all the people are to respond by saying, 'Amen!'"
(Deu 27:26)
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
It is mostly ceremonial because it is a day of rest, and as Hebrews points out Jesus is our rest. Now the moral part comes from one who wants to keep it as one specific day of rest, Saturday.

As Romans 14:5 points out though we are not to hinder anybody on this any more because rather or not you do one day or every day as long as you are observing the day to the Lord you are doing what's asked.

Moral? You said in post #1538 ceremonial.
Stealing is immoral everyday. Is walking too far immoral everyday?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,736
3,667
113
It is mostly ceremonial because it is a day of rest, and as Hebrews points out Jesus is our rest. Now the moral part comes from one who wants to keep it as one specific day of rest, Saturday.

As Romans 14:5 points out though we are not to hinder anybody on this any more because rather or not you do one day or every day as long as you are observing the day to the Lord you are doing what's asked.
btw, how in the world did this moldy thread resurrect itself? :)
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
No, the next question is...are you keeping all the 613 that apply to you in the light of...

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
(Jas 2:10)

Certainly all who depend on the actions of the Law are under a curse. For it is written, "A curse on everyone who does not obey everything that is written in the Book of the Law!"
(Gal 3:10)

"Cursed is the one who doesn't uphold the words of this Law and observe them. "Then all the people are to respond by saying, 'Amen!'"
(Deu 27:26)
I already said I am not perfect, and yes I do sin, according to Scripture SIN IS BREAKING THE LAW, if there were no Law there would be no sin. I know I am in need of a Savior, and not only have I accepted Messiah, but I ask for mercy when I do transgress. However this does not mean one cast aside the Law of Yahweh.This EXACT thing is talked about by Shaul:

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

the word Law is: 3551. nomos
nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law
Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: nomos
Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os)
Short Definition: a law, the Mosaic Law

Since when is "Im not perfect so I must break every Law known" the right walk?

Have you killed anyone lately? Stolen? No? Well dang your Law observant, we better go and stel so were not trying to be justified by Law huh?

[TABLE="class: maintext"]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3745 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Hosoi[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Ὅσοι[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]as many as[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]RelPro-NMP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1063 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]gar[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]γὰρ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]indeed[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1537 [e]
[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ex
[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐξ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]of[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep

OF is not the meaning of this word:

1537. ek or ex
ek or ex: from, from out of​
Original Word: ἐκ, ἐξ
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: ek or ex
Phonetic Spelling: (ek)
Short Definition: from out, out from among, from
Definition: from out, out from among, from, suggesting from the interior outwards.


[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2041 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ergōn[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἔργων[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]works[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GNP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3551 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]nomou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]νόμου[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]of law[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1510 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]eisin[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]εἰσὶν,[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]are,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-PIA-3P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]5259 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hypo[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ὑπὸ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]under[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2671 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]kataran[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]κατάραν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]a curse[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-AFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1510 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]eisin[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]εἰσίν,[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]are.[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-PIA-3P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1125 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]gegraptai[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]γέγραπται[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]it has been written[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-RIM/P-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1063 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]gar[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]γὰρ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]indeed[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3754 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hoti[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ὅτι[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"] - ,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1944 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Epikataratos[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Ἐπικατάρατος[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]Cursed [is][/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-NMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3956 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]pas[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]πᾶς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]everyone[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-NMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3739 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hos[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ὃς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]who[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]RelPro-NMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3756 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ouk[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]οὐκ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]not[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adv[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1696 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]emmenei[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐμμένει[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]does continue[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-PIA-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3956 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]pasin[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]πᾶσιν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]all things[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-DNP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]tois[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τοῖς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"] - [/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-DNP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1125 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]gegrammenois[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]γεγραμμένοις[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]having been written[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-RPM/P-DNP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1722 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]en[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]in[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"][/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τῷ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]the[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-DNS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]975 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]bibliō[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]βιβλίῳ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]book[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-DNS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]tou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τοῦ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]of the[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-GMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3551 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]nomou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]νόμου[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]law,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]tou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τοῦ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"] - [/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-GNS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4160 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]poiēsai[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ποιῆσαι[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]to do[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-ANA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]846 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]auta[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]αὐτά.[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]them.[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]PPro-AN3P[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Messiah has removed the curse of the second death, however, one can still recieve a curse from breaking Yahweh's Law while in the flesh, you know as well as I none are perfect, even the saved, if a saved man sleeps around he can still catch a STD, if a saved man eats pig he can still get heart disease. etc etc etc.

A true follower of the Messiah has entered into agreement/covenant with Yahweh.


And the Law of Yahweh AKA the TORAH, and you cant change the meaning of that, (the Torah is the Torah) it is written on the hearts of those that have been cleansed by the blood of Messiah.

SO explain to me how one can be a part of the covenant ratified in the blood of Messiah and not love, enjoy, and follow the Torah?

For it is written, "I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts"

and the Law being talked about here is not a "new Law" it is the old Law, 1 Yahchanan (john) 2:7, "Brothers, I write no new Laws to you, but the old Laws which you had from the beginning: The old Laws are the Law which you had from the beginning."

Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

"Law" is word #H8451 - torah - torah: direction, instruction, law Original Word: תּוֹרָה Part of Speech: Noun Feminine Transliteration: torah

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them."

the word Law is: 3551. nomos
nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law
Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: nomos
Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os)
Short Definition: a law, the Mosaic Law
Definition: usage, custom, law; in NT: of law in general, plur: of divine laws; of a force or influence impelling to action; of the Mosaic law; meton: of the books which contain the law, the Pentateuch, the Old Testament scriptures in general.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
btw, how in the world did this moldy thread resurrect itself? :)
I just saw the mention of laws, and I always get entangled in these discussions. I just look at it as fun, informative, and just more ways to either learn or help others along.
 
K

Karraster

Guest
He forgave past, and present sins at that time..yes.....But He also said that you must repent of future sins.
Respectfully, isn't this a Catholic Creed? I'm not familiar with it, can you give scripture? Thanks. (future sin, that is.)
 
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
0
It seems so important to the life of the church that we simply listen to scripture, all of it. If we would list the main things and watch everything to be sure it falls in line with those things, there wouldn't be this haggling!

Paul was a very learned man, educated by the Greeks, but his main education was by the Rabbis. Paul loved the Lord.

God gave us the first five books of the bible explaining His principles to us for all time. They are basic, and they explain that Christ is basic.

All of Scripture after Christ is explaining that Christ carried on how it has always been, Christ made it complete and better.

What had to be addressed in the letters was stated clearly in one verse, we must not miss it.

It is Acts 15:1-2. Then certain individuals came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved." 2 And after Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to discuss this question with the apostles and the elders.

They were not only teaching gentiles they had to become ritually Jews, but teaching obedience before faith to everyone. As all of scripture explains (especially Isaiah) physically doing what was given as an expression of the spiritual is absolutely nothing, never was, without obedience and faith.

Paul had no idea that men would read the words he got from the Lord who did not know or believe in the Torah. People who did not know the Torah were considered ignorant.

2Pe_3:16 He (Paul) speaks about these things in all his letters in which there are some matters that are hard to understand. The untaught and unstable twist them to their own destruction, as they also do with the rest of the Scriptures.

When Paul is read as a man in rebellion of Torah that was breathed by God, it is twisted. If Paul is read as a man who loved Christ, loved the Lord, breathed words from the Lord, and never, ever, changed scripture, then Paul is read in truth and not by rebellious men. Christ's saving grace comes ringing out to us, and the goodness of the Father. Otherwise there are sour notes, and even the posts telling of it are filled with sour mean words that reflect evil.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,736
3,667
113
Hopeless. I keep bringing up ONLY the Mosaic law given to Israel and you go into Yahveh's law, moral law and now the New Covenant and the law of Christ... We're just two ships passing in the fog.
I already said I am not perfect, and yes I do sin, according to Scripture SIN IS BREAKING THE LAW, if there were no Law there would be no sin. I know I am in need of a Savior, and not only have I accepted Messiah, but I ask for mercy when I do transgress. However this does not mean one cast aside the Law of Yahweh.This EXACT thing is talked about by Shaul:

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

the word Law is: 3551. nomos
nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law
Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: nomos
Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os)
Short Definition: a law, the Mosaic Law

Since when is "Im not perfect so I must break every Law known" the right walk?

Have you killed anyone lately? Stolen? No? Well dang your Law observant, we better go and stel so were not trying to be justified by Law huh?

[TABLE="class: maintext"]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3745 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Hosoi[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Ὅσοι[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]as many as[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]RelPro-NMP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1063 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]gar[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]γὰρ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]indeed[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1537 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ex[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐξ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]of[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep

OF is not the meaning of this word:

1537. ek or ex
ek or ex: from, from out of​
Original Word: ἐκ, ἐξ
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: ek or ex
Phonetic Spelling: (ek)
Short Definition: from out, out from among, from
Definition: from out, out from among, from, suggesting from the interior outwards.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2041 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ergōn[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἔργων[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]works[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GNP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3551 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]nomou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]νόμου[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]of law[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1510 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]eisin[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]εἰσὶν,[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]are,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-PIA-3P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]5259 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hypo[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ὑπὸ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]under[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2671 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]kataran[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]κατάραν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]a curse[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-AFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1510 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]eisin[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]εἰσίν,[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]are.[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-PIA-3P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1125 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]gegraptai[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]γέγραπται[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]it has been written[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-RIM/P-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1063 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]gar[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]γὰρ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]indeed[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3754 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hoti[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ὅτι[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"] - ,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1944 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Epikataratos[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Ἐπικατάρατος[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]Cursed [is][/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-NMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3956 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]pas[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]πᾶς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]everyone[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-NMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3739 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hos[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ὃς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]who[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]RelPro-NMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3756 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ouk[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]οὐκ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]not[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adv[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1696 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]emmenei[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐμμένει[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]does continue[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-PIA-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3956 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]pasin[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]πᾶσιν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]all things[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-DNP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]tois[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τοῖς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"] -[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-DNP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1125 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]gegrammenois[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]γεγραμμένοις[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]having been written[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-RPM/P-DNP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1722 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]en[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]in[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"][/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τῷ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]the[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-DNS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]975 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]bibliō[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]βιβλίῳ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]book[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-DNS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]tou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τοῦ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]of the[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-GMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3551 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]nomou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]νόμου[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]law,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]tou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τοῦ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"] -[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-GNS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4160 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]poiēsai[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ποιῆσαι[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]to do[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-ANA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]846 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]auta[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]αὐτά.[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]them.[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]PPro-AN3P[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Messiah has removed the curse of the second death, however, one can still recieve a curse from breaking Yahweh's Law while in the flesh, you know as well as I none are perfect, even the saved, if a saved man sleeps around he can still catch a STD, if a saved man eats pig he can still get heart disease. etc etc etc.

A true follower of the Messiah has entered into agreement/covenant with Yahweh.


And the Law of Yahweh AKA the TORAH, and you cant change the meaning of that, (the Torah is the Torah) it is written on the hearts of those that have been cleansed by the blood of Messiah.

SO explain to me how one can be a part of the covenant ratified in the blood of Messiah and not love, enjoy, and follow the Torah?

For it is written, "I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts"

and the Law being talked about here is not a "new Law" it is the old Law, 1 Yahchanan (john) 2:7, "Brothers, I write no new Laws to you, but the old Laws which you had from the beginning: The old Laws are the Law which you had from the beginning."

Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

"Law" is word #H8451 - torah - torah: direction, instruction, law Original Word: תּוֹרָה Part of Speech: Noun Feminine Transliteration: torah

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them."

the word Law is: 3551. nomos
nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law
Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: nomos
Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os)
Short Definition: a law, the Mosaic Law
Definition: usage, custom, law; in NT: of law in general, plur: of divine laws; of a force or influence impelling to action; of the Mosaic law; meton: of the books which contain the law, the Pentateuch, the Old Testament scriptures in general.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,289
6,575
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Yes, I am aware of what you replied to my post, which did not make reference to the grain of my post. It was your contribution leading back to all of the laws. I make a great disctinction, and I have posted this a multitude of times. As for this moldy subject returning, it seems everyone is interested in it, ergo the discussion. We are not under the law, but we are responsible to do what is right. Anyone who knows he sins, is a sinner, and if he knows, he is observant of the law. Anyone who does not sin is Christ; he is not, however anyone who has come to Yeshua, Christ, in spirit and truth is regarded by the Father as sinless. Some of this, though seemingly simple to the intellectual, is yet a mystery. Too many claim to understand all making themselves quite foolish in the eyes of the Father and of many men. Read and study the Word, believe it, and worship Yahweh, amen.

You apparently did not understand my post. I was saying if you are attemting to 'keep' the MOSAIC Laws as prescribed, you must keep the whole of them and not just pick and choose. They come as a total package including the ceremonial and civil.
You say ''all the laws do not to be followed'', well sir, that is foreign to the Mosaic Covenant. You can't just chuck the physical laws saying they are not valid etc., it's all or nothing with the Mosaic Covenant, which will you choose?