Salvation Not Possible Without Works
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The Inadequate Historical Precedent for
“Once Saved, Always Saved”
While the first extensive discussion of the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints is found in Augustine’s Treatise on the Gift of Perseverance, written around A. D. 429, Augustine believed it was possible to experience the justifying grace of God and yet not persevere to the end. Augustine did believe God’s elect would certainly persevere to the end, but he denied that a person could know they were in the elect and he also warned it was possible to be justified but not among the elect. Not until Calvin was unconditional election, permanent regeneration, and certitude of final perseverance all connected.
James Akin, a Catholic theologian, said in a debate with Calvinist theologian James White that no one before Calvin taught that predestination to grace automatically entails predestination to glory. [TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]You can check that out for yourself. I did. I searched multiple books and called half a dozen Calvinist seminaries, talking to their systematic theology and church history professors, and no one could name a person before Calvin who taught this thesis. They all said Calvin was the first. I even called John Jefferson Davis, a scholar who published an article in the Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society on the history of this doctrine, a man who is himself a Calvinist, but who has researched the history of this doctrine thoroughly, and he said Calvin was the first to teach it.
This poses a problem even for those who claim that they take their teachings exclusively from Scripture, namely, "How could a doctrine this important--if true--remain completely undiscovered for the first 1500 years of Church history and, if Jesus comes back any time soon, for three quearters of all of Church history?"
Other important doctrines have been known all through Christian history. Christians always knew, even when heretics denied it,that Jesus Christ was God. Christians always knew, even when heretics denied it, that Jesus Christ is fully man as well as fully God. And Christians always knew, even when heretics denied it, that they were saved purely by God's grace.
So when it turns out that Christians never knew that true Christians can never fall away, and then suddenly 1500 years later someone starts claiming it, one has to ask who is conveying the true teaching of the apostles and who is teaching the heresy “Are All True Christians Predestined to Persevere?”[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Akin’s remarks are accurate and problematic for Calvinist scholars. Furthermore, the Calvinist does not fare any better when one looks even more deeply into what the early Christians believed about this issue. In 1998, Hendrickson Publishers printed A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs: A Reference Guide to More than 700 Topics Discussed by the Early Church Fathers. Under the topic heading of “Salvation,” we find the question, “Can those who are saved ever be lost?” After several Scriptural passages are quoted [2 Chron 15:2; Ezek 33:12; Matt 10:22; Luke 9:62; 2 Tim 2:12; Heb 10:26; 2 Pet 2:20-21], five pages of quotes are given from the writings of early Christian leaders. These quotes give evidence that the early church did not believe in “once saved, always saved.” They taught that it was possible for a genuine believer to reject God and wind up eternally separated from God in hell [pp. 586-591].
David Bercot, editor of this dictionary, also wrote a provocative book called, Will the Real Heretics Please Stand Up? It takes today’s Evangelical Church, both its lifestyle and teaching, and looks at it in the light of early Christian teaching. It is an interesting book that comes from someone who has read through the entire works of the Ante-Nicene Fathers more than once. He writes, [TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]Since the early Christians believed that our continued faith and obedience are necessary for salvation, it naturally follows that they believed that a “saved” person could still end up being lost. For example, Irenaeus, the pupil of Polycarp, wrote, “Christ will not die again on behalf of those who now commit sin because death shall no more have dominion over Him…. Therefore we should not be puffed up…. But we should beware lest somehow, after [we have come to] the knowledge of Christ, if we do things displeasing to God, we obtain no further forgiveness of sins but rather be shut out from His kingdom” (Heb. 6:4-6) [p. 65].[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
What the Christian Church historically believed about the security of the believer is not the ultimate test for determining our stance on this issue today, but the lack of historical precedent should serve as a warning. Before John Calvin, the teaching of unconditional eternal security was not a doctrine that was taught by the universal church through the centuries. Therefore, while the Scriptures are the ultimate test for truth on this issue, “once saved, always saved” teachers need to acknowledge that their doctrine is historically an anomaly. Furthermore, the brand of “once saved, always saved” teaching that tells people that they can stop believing and still be on their way to heaven (but with less rewards) is nowhere to be found in historic Christianity prior to the twentieth century.
“Once Saved, Always Saved”
Steve Witzki
John Jefferson Davis wrote an article titled: “The Perseverance of the Saints: A History of the Doctrine” [Journal of Evangelical Theological Society 34:2 (June 1991)]. Three things make this article of great value. First, it was written by a well-known and highly respected Calvinist theologian. Second, it covers the key people and church groups on the topic. Third, it demonstrates that “once saved, always saved” or unconditional eternal security was not a doctrine that was taught by the ancient church, nor for that manner, by any well-known theologian before John Calvin. This doctrine is, in fact, completely foreign in the history of Christianity.
While the first extensive discussion of the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints is found in Augustine’s Treatise on the Gift of Perseverance, written around A. D. 429, Augustine believed it was possible to experience the justifying grace of God and yet not persevere to the end. Augustine did believe God’s elect would certainly persevere to the end, but he denied that a person could know they were in the elect and he also warned it was possible to be justified but not among the elect. Not until Calvin was unconditional election, permanent regeneration, and certitude of final perseverance all connected.
James Akin, a Catholic theologian, said in a debate with Calvinist theologian James White that no one before Calvin taught that predestination to grace automatically entails predestination to glory. [TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]You can check that out for yourself. I did. I searched multiple books and called half a dozen Calvinist seminaries, talking to their systematic theology and church history professors, and no one could name a person before Calvin who taught this thesis. They all said Calvin was the first. I even called John Jefferson Davis, a scholar who published an article in the Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society on the history of this doctrine, a man who is himself a Calvinist, but who has researched the history of this doctrine thoroughly, and he said Calvin was the first to teach it.
This poses a problem even for those who claim that they take their teachings exclusively from Scripture, namely, "How could a doctrine this important--if true--remain completely undiscovered for the first 1500 years of Church history and, if Jesus comes back any time soon, for three quearters of all of Church history?"
Other important doctrines have been known all through Christian history. Christians always knew, even when heretics denied it,that Jesus Christ was God. Christians always knew, even when heretics denied it, that Jesus Christ is fully man as well as fully God. And Christians always knew, even when heretics denied it, that they were saved purely by God's grace.
So when it turns out that Christians never knew that true Christians can never fall away, and then suddenly 1500 years later someone starts claiming it, one has to ask who is conveying the true teaching of the apostles and who is teaching the heresy “Are All True Christians Predestined to Persevere?”[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Akin’s remarks are accurate and problematic for Calvinist scholars. Furthermore, the Calvinist does not fare any better when one looks even more deeply into what the early Christians believed about this issue. In 1998, Hendrickson Publishers printed A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs: A Reference Guide to More than 700 Topics Discussed by the Early Church Fathers. Under the topic heading of “Salvation,” we find the question, “Can those who are saved ever be lost?” After several Scriptural passages are quoted [2 Chron 15:2; Ezek 33:12; Matt 10:22; Luke 9:62; 2 Tim 2:12; Heb 10:26; 2 Pet 2:20-21], five pages of quotes are given from the writings of early Christian leaders. These quotes give evidence that the early church did not believe in “once saved, always saved.” They taught that it was possible for a genuine believer to reject God and wind up eternally separated from God in hell [pp. 586-591].
David Bercot, editor of this dictionary, also wrote a provocative book called, Will the Real Heretics Please Stand Up? It takes today’s Evangelical Church, both its lifestyle and teaching, and looks at it in the light of early Christian teaching. It is an interesting book that comes from someone who has read through the entire works of the Ante-Nicene Fathers more than once. He writes, [TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]Since the early Christians believed that our continued faith and obedience are necessary for salvation, it naturally follows that they believed that a “saved” person could still end up being lost. For example, Irenaeus, the pupil of Polycarp, wrote, “Christ will not die again on behalf of those who now commit sin because death shall no more have dominion over Him…. Therefore we should not be puffed up…. But we should beware lest somehow, after [we have come to] the knowledge of Christ, if we do things displeasing to God, we obtain no further forgiveness of sins but rather be shut out from His kingdom” (Heb. 6:4-6) [p. 65].[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
What the Christian Church historically believed about the security of the believer is not the ultimate test for determining our stance on this issue today, but the lack of historical precedent should serve as a warning. Before John Calvin, the teaching of unconditional eternal security was not a doctrine that was taught by the universal church through the centuries. Therefore, while the Scriptures are the ultimate test for truth on this issue, “once saved, always saved” teachers need to acknowledge that their doctrine is historically an anomaly. Furthermore, the brand of “once saved, always saved” teaching that tells people that they can stop believing and still be on their way to heaven (but with less rewards) is nowhere to be found in historic Christianity prior to the twentieth century.
D
- John Calvin
What is the work mentioned above? Do we have to chop so much wood? The work associated with a saving faith is external evidence of that that faith. Believing God will stop you from falling as you walk off a cliff is faith. Stepping off that cliff is a work of faith. (No I am not suggesting anyone actually do this, it is simply an analogy of a work). I recall a devotion I had as a child, where the pastor explained it as you can believe a you can drive a car, but putting the key in the ignition is a work of faith.
If that was so, then those subject to a jail sentence who truly went to the Lord and repented of their sin would not have to spend any time in jail. When they repent and are saved, it means many wonderful things, their life from then on, even, will be happier. But it does not mean that they will not have to go to jail.
King David's life explains this about God. David was forgiven for his sins, David was saved and blessed. But God's justice was there for David, too, God never told David that it was perfectly OK what he did, it won't result in any bad thing happening as a result of your actions. The results were so severe that the beloved son he had with Bathsheba died. There was justice, and blessings too, for David because of his repentance and accepting God's forgiveness.
King David's life explains this about God. David was forgiven for his sins, David was saved and blessed. But God's justice was there for David, too, God never told David that it was perfectly OK what he did, it won't result in any bad thing happening as a result of your actions. The results were so severe that the beloved son he had with Bathsheba died. There was justice, and blessings too, for David because of his repentance and accepting God's forgiveness.
Seabass,
You have so twisted the understanding of what we mean by "eternal security", that we do not even recognize it. How about letting me explain it to you, so that you are at least quoting our theology correctly.
I will admit that there are a FEW who think it is, I'm saved, I don't have to obey, let Grace abound. THEY ARE VERY SADLY MISTAKEN. The lack of obedience, validates that they are counterfeit Christians. Those that the LORD Himself said to in Mat. Chapter 7, "I never KNEW you." Whether you want to believe or not, the MAJORITY of us who Believe in Eternal Security, recognize those like that, as Counterfeit Christians, the TARES that the Devil has sown amongst the wheat.
So since that definition does not apply to the Majority of Us that believe in Eternal Security; what exactly do we mean by that term. First of all you seem to equate Salvation with Sanctification. Where we believe Sanctification is something that will ABSOLUTELY be produced in all genuine born again Believers who have received Jesus Christ as LORD, which means MASTER. If that process of becoming more and more like Christ in our walk of obedience is ABSENT, then that is evidence of that person having settled for a counterfeit easy believism GOSPEL, and thus their supposed Chrisitanity is a Counterfeit of the real deal.
So where does the Eternal Security come into play, with those of us who "Have been Saved" and validate it by walking in Obedience, becoming more and more like Christ. We absolutely believe it is NOT us, out of our fleshly mind that is controlling our walk of Obedience, but rather it is Christ Himself and the Holy Spirit WHO are leading us to Walk in Obedience. AND We believe that When the Holy Trinity (GOD) says HE is going to do something, it is already a DONE DEAL, because HE is ALWAYS FAITHFUL, and therefore HE will carry it out to the very end, thus SALVATION is complete in the genuine Christian from the very beginning, BECAUSE GOD NEVER FAILS.
Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
[SUP]6[/SUP] I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
Hence when the walk of Obedience is NOT THERE, it was NOT GOD who started the good work (genuine saving faith) in you, it was a product of your human intellect only.
When the walk of Obedience desires are there, and the more we get into the WORD, the more we mature spiritually, thus the more like Christ we become. STILL we do not get to claim Credit for the good that we do, IT IS CHRIST IN US and the HOly Spirit.
Galatians 2:20-21 (HCSB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing.
However if we do stumble into sin, we have to take full credit for that stumble; and if we are genuine Christians, that walk of Obedience HE put in us, will want to quickly confess that sin and repent of it.
That is what the MAJORITY of us that use the term Eternal Security mean by it. We absolutely believe that those of us who have been born again, having had the HOLY SPIRIT put ETERNAL LIFE in our human spirits that will NEVER DIE, have Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit AT WORK IN US FOREVER. Do we stumble? YES, but less and less as we become more and more like Christ. ARE we Perfect? NO, not yet; but HE WHO IS IN US MOST CERTAINLY IS PERFECT. AND HE WILL BRING OUR SANCTIFICATION TO IT'S COMPLETION. SO PERFECT, SO HOLY, AND SO FAITHFUL IS HE, that HIS Beginning the WORK is the same as FINISHING THE WORK. HENCE WE ARE SAVED, and ALWAYS WILL BE FOREVER; and the PROOF of HIS carrying it out to Completion IS OUR OBEDIENCE HE PLACED IN US.
THAT IS THE TRUTH about what we BELIEVE, and I am sure it is FAR different than what you thought we believed.
You have so twisted the understanding of what we mean by "eternal security", that we do not even recognize it. How about letting me explain it to you, so that you are at least quoting our theology correctly.
I will admit that there are a FEW who think it is, I'm saved, I don't have to obey, let Grace abound. THEY ARE VERY SADLY MISTAKEN. The lack of obedience, validates that they are counterfeit Christians. Those that the LORD Himself said to in Mat. Chapter 7, "I never KNEW you." Whether you want to believe or not, the MAJORITY of us who Believe in Eternal Security, recognize those like that, as Counterfeit Christians, the TARES that the Devil has sown amongst the wheat.
So since that definition does not apply to the Majority of Us that believe in Eternal Security; what exactly do we mean by that term. First of all you seem to equate Salvation with Sanctification. Where we believe Sanctification is something that will ABSOLUTELY be produced in all genuine born again Believers who have received Jesus Christ as LORD, which means MASTER. If that process of becoming more and more like Christ in our walk of obedience is ABSENT, then that is evidence of that person having settled for a counterfeit easy believism GOSPEL, and thus their supposed Chrisitanity is a Counterfeit of the real deal.
So where does the Eternal Security come into play, with those of us who "Have been Saved" and validate it by walking in Obedience, becoming more and more like Christ. We absolutely believe it is NOT us, out of our fleshly mind that is controlling our walk of Obedience, but rather it is Christ Himself and the Holy Spirit WHO are leading us to Walk in Obedience. AND We believe that When the Holy Trinity (GOD) says HE is going to do something, it is already a DONE DEAL, because HE is ALWAYS FAITHFUL, and therefore HE will carry it out to the very end, thus SALVATION is complete in the genuine Christian from the very beginning, BECAUSE GOD NEVER FAILS.
Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
[SUP]6[/SUP] I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
Hence when the walk of Obedience is NOT THERE, it was NOT GOD who started the good work (genuine saving faith) in you, it was a product of your human intellect only.
When the walk of Obedience desires are there, and the more we get into the WORD, the more we mature spiritually, thus the more like Christ we become. STILL we do not get to claim Credit for the good that we do, IT IS CHRIST IN US and the HOly Spirit.
Galatians 2:20-21 (HCSB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing.
However if we do stumble into sin, we have to take full credit for that stumble; and if we are genuine Christians, that walk of Obedience HE put in us, will want to quickly confess that sin and repent of it.
That is what the MAJORITY of us that use the term Eternal Security mean by it. We absolutely believe that those of us who have been born again, having had the HOLY SPIRIT put ETERNAL LIFE in our human spirits that will NEVER DIE, have Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit AT WORK IN US FOREVER. Do we stumble? YES, but less and less as we become more and more like Christ. ARE we Perfect? NO, not yet; but HE WHO IS IN US MOST CERTAINLY IS PERFECT. AND HE WILL BRING OUR SANCTIFICATION TO IT'S COMPLETION. SO PERFECT, SO HOLY, AND SO FAITHFUL IS HE, that HIS Beginning the WORK is the same as FINISHING THE WORK. HENCE WE ARE SAVED, and ALWAYS WILL BE FOREVER; and the PROOF of HIS carrying it out to Completion IS OUR OBEDIENCE HE PLACED IN US.
THAT IS THE TRUTH about what we BELIEVE, and I am sure it is FAR different than what you thought we believed.
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I will be more truthful. I proof read them, and my OLD MIND reads it the way I think I typed it, hence the nightmarish typos persist and seem to get worse and more often as I get older.
AND since ADMIN, has NO sympathy for us old timers, and insists on only a 5 minute time limit to correct the typos, I have only one thing to say to them:
YOUR DAY OF OLD-TIMER TYPOS IS COMING - - - - - - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!
AND since ADMIN, has NO sympathy for us old timers, and insists on only a 5 minute time limit to correct the typos, I have only one thing to say to them:
YOUR DAY OF OLD-TIMER TYPOS IS COMING - - - - - - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!
I agree and by Faith, I do, and I do not take any of the credit:
I say: Rom_1:9; 2Co_1:23, 2Co_11:31, 2Co_12:19; Gal_1:20; Phi_1:8; 1Th_2:5; 1Ti_2:7, 1Ti_5:21
My conscience: Rom_2:15, Rom_8:16; 2Co_1:12; 1Ti_1:5; 1Jo_3:19-21
[h=3]I say: in response to Romans 9:1 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) [/h] [h=3]I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, [/h] the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son that without ceasing I make mentions of you always in my prayers; Moreover I call God for a record upon my soul, that to spare you I came not as yet unto you. The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, know that I lie not. Again, think; do you think we excuse ourselves unto you? We speak before God in Christ: but we do all things, dearly beloved, for your edifying.[SUP] [/SUP]Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not. For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ. For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloke of covetousness; God is witness: Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not
a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.[SUP] [/SUP]I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.
My conscience:
Which shows the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another? The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and Godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.[SUP] [/SUP]Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. For if our heart condemn us God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
Put all the scriptures here together as one read, scriptures are at top
By Faith, Belief and trust in God through Son this is truth, here to love as God does love, and leave the fallacy of God presented as tyrant behind, please, for God does just love us all, that is a fact after scuffling through it all. More to come in sincerity and truth
Homwardbound
I say: Rom_1:9; 2Co_1:23, 2Co_11:31, 2Co_12:19; Gal_1:20; Phi_1:8; 1Th_2:5; 1Ti_2:7, 1Ti_5:21
My conscience: Rom_2:15, Rom_8:16; 2Co_1:12; 1Ti_1:5; 1Jo_3:19-21
[h=3]I say: in response to Romans 9:1 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) [/h] [h=3]I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, [/h] the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son that without ceasing I make mentions of you always in my prayers; Moreover I call God for a record upon my soul, that to spare you I came not as yet unto you. The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, know that I lie not. Again, think; do you think we excuse ourselves unto you? We speak before God in Christ: but we do all things, dearly beloved, for your edifying.[SUP] [/SUP]Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not. For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ. For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloke of covetousness; God is witness: Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not
a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.[SUP] [/SUP]I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.My conscience:
Which shows the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another? The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and Godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.[SUP] [/SUP]Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. For if our heart condemn us God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
Put all the scriptures here together as one read, scriptures are at top
By Faith, Belief and trust in God through Son this is truth, here to love as God does love, and leave the fallacy of God presented as tyrant behind, please, for God does just love us all, that is a fact after scuffling through it all. More to come in sincerity and truth
Homwardbound
You speak truth then add works of self, that is what I read here from you, and if I am wrong, then so be it, and apologize, yet with all the posts I think not and pray for you to come to nothing to see Christ in the resurrected life he has for you
[h=3]Philippians 3[/h]Living Bible (TLB)
3 Whatever happens, dear friends, be glad in the Lord. I never get tired of telling you this, and it is good for you to hear it again and again.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Watch out for those wicked men—dangerous dogs, I call them—who say you must be circumcised to be saved. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For it isn’t the cutting of our bodies that makes us children of God; it is worshiping him with our spirits. That is the only true “circumcision.” We Christians glory in what Christ Jesus has done for us and realize that we are helpless to save ourselves.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Yet if anyone ever had reason to hope that he could save himself, it would be I. If others could be saved by what they are, certainly I could! [SUP]5 [/SUP]For I went through the Jewish initiation ceremony when I was eight days old, having been born into a pure-blooded Jewish home that was a branch of the old original Benjamin family. So I was a real Jew if there ever was one! What’s more, I was a member of the Pharisees who demand the strictest obedience to every Jewish law and custom. [SUP]6 [/SUP]And sincere? Yes, so much so that I greatly persecuted the Church; and I tried to obey every Jewish rule and regulation right down to the very last point.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But all these things that I once thought very worthwhile—now I’ve thrown them all away so that I can put my trust and hope in Christ alone. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Yes, everything else is worthless when compared with the priceless gain of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. I have put aside all else, counting it worth less than nothing, in order that I can have Christ, [SUP]9 [/SUP]and become one with him, no longer counting on being saved by being good enough or by obeying God’s laws, but by trusting Christ to save me; for God’s way of making us right with himself depends on faith—counting on Christ alone. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Now I have given up everything else—I have found it to be the only way to really know Christ and to experience the mighty power that brought him back to life again, and to find out what it means to suffer and to die with him. [SUP]11 [/SUP]So whatever it takes, I will be one who lives in the fresh newness of life of those who are alive from the dead.
[h=3]Philippians 3[/h]Living Bible (TLB)
3 Whatever happens, dear friends, be glad in the Lord. I never get tired of telling you this, and it is good for you to hear it again and again.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Watch out for those wicked men—dangerous dogs, I call them—who say you must be circumcised to be saved. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For it isn’t the cutting of our bodies that makes us children of God; it is worshiping him with our spirits. That is the only true “circumcision.” We Christians glory in what Christ Jesus has done for us and realize that we are helpless to save ourselves.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Yet if anyone ever had reason to hope that he could save himself, it would be I. If others could be saved by what they are, certainly I could! [SUP]5 [/SUP]For I went through the Jewish initiation ceremony when I was eight days old, having been born into a pure-blooded Jewish home that was a branch of the old original Benjamin family. So I was a real Jew if there ever was one! What’s more, I was a member of the Pharisees who demand the strictest obedience to every Jewish law and custom. [SUP]6 [/SUP]And sincere? Yes, so much so that I greatly persecuted the Church; and I tried to obey every Jewish rule and regulation right down to the very last point.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But all these things that I once thought very worthwhile—now I’ve thrown them all away so that I can put my trust and hope in Christ alone. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Yes, everything else is worthless when compared with the priceless gain of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. I have put aside all else, counting it worth less than nothing, in order that I can have Christ, [SUP]9 [/SUP]and become one with him, no longer counting on being saved by being good enough or by obeying God’s laws, but by trusting Christ to save me; for God’s way of making us right with himself depends on faith—counting on Christ alone. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Now I have given up everything else—I have found it to be the only way to really know Christ and to experience the mighty power that brought him back to life again, and to find out what it means to suffer and to die with him. [SUP]11 [/SUP]So whatever it takes, I will be one who lives in the fresh newness of life of those who are alive from the dead.
Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
But to humble us if one gets proud and or boastful, so we have thorns in us to keep us humkble
2 Cor 12:7, onward God's grace is sufficient for us all, and not to take it for granted and use Christ as one's escape goat, to get away with sin.
Rather to appreciate it so deeply, we get so close in Spirit and truth, with thanksgiving and praise, there is no time to sin. Get it I pray
2 Cor 12:7, onward God's grace is sufficient for us all, and not to take it for granted and use Christ as one's escape goat, to get away with sin.
Rather to appreciate it so deeply, we get so close in Spirit and truth, with thanksgiving and praise, there is no time to sin. Get it I pray
Went to death for us to make us right with Father by this death of Son
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Then if you, I or anyone sees this as done, then you are presented to Father as holy, perfect, thanks to Christ's death
And death does not bring life, the resurrected Christ does that, as a gift from Father; you and all that finalize the cross as made Holy, by what God did do through Son by his death and we turn from unbelief to belief, Father gives us the new life in Spirit and truth, by the resurrected Christ, We no longer walk by the old carnal nature of this world
Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
That be Christ's resurrected life, we are news boys to this truth
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Then if you, I or anyone sees this as done, then you are presented to Father as holy, perfect, thanks to Christ's death
And death does not bring life, the resurrected Christ does that, as a gift from Father; you and all that finalize the cross as made Holy, by what God did do through Son by his death and we turn from unbelief to belief, Father gives us the new life in Spirit and truth, by the resurrected Christ, We no longer walk by the old carnal nature of this world
Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
That be Christ's resurrected life, we are news boys to this truth
L
order of operations, my dear.
salvation results in good works, because the Holy Spirit produces fruit from those in which He dwells.
A. You see, mud happens when it rains. Does the mud cause the rain?
cause and effect
B. You see, good work happens when you're saved. Does the good work cause the salvation?
salvation brings good works, not good works bringing salvation.
salvation results in good works, because the Holy Spirit produces fruit from those in which He dwells.
A. You see, mud happens when it rains. Does the mud cause the rain?
cause and effect
B. You see, good work happens when you're saved. Does the good work cause the salvation?
salvation brings good works, not good works bringing salvation.