Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?

[danschance]

Any doctrine or element can be taken to the extreme. I'm interested in Hebrew roots because they were things familar to Jesus. When He read from Isaiah it was in Hebrew so the hebrew language interests me. The Bible makes it very clear that keeping laws and traditions will not save you. Only the Blood of Jesus, we cannot earn brownie points by trying to keep the law. It was put in place to show us how inadequate we are and we need a Savior. The good news is God provided One, Jesus Christ. So I might be called Hebrew Roots Movement but it's firmly rooted in Jesus.

It's fine to learn about Jewish stuff. It is aberrant to be so caught up in it that you become a Jew-Christian. That is the danger of the HRM, they take it to an extreme and in some cases they deny Christ and literally become a Jew.

We had a man in the biblestudy chat room who stated he was the only one qualified to teach on the OT. He claimed to be able to read and write Hebrew. He taught that the NT has been altered and can not be trusted. He took a new convert to Christianity (she had been LDS) and after dealing with this "son of Belial" she rejected Christianity!

Even tho' many in the HRM never sink to this level, they do get stuck in it. They focus only on the law, post on the law, talk about the law, eat drink, sleep nothing but the Law. They loose track of the forest from the trees and became very lopsided in their theology. Yes, it is fine to study the OT and I have. It is fine to study Hebrew and I have. It is fine to learn about the feasts and I have. Yet it is not fine to sink to such a level that you no longer identify with other Christians.

 

[Hizikyah]

The point is where is Jesus in your laws? Why do you not teach Jesus and him crucified. Does the HRM only focus on themselves, and not share the gospel with the lost because they are lost. Isn't that what you are called to do, or are
you only to yourselves. Saying i stand alone, i keep all the laws, but i will not raise on finger to go and minister to those
ungodly sinners, It might rub off. Where is your love?, where is your fruit?, what are you called for? Are you using your talents? Do you care about them at all?

How do the HRM minister? Serious question? Do you? Do you only tell them they must keep laws?
If we where in the great trib. right now, what are you going to tell people?
I would hope, it would be repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ that your sins may be forgiven.

I cant speak on a "HRM" because I only know of a few HRM places, but I myself when talking to an non-believer focus on prophecy to show the Scriptures are real then 75% Messiah's Sacrifice and 25% Messiah's teachings, HOWEVER, to one that has accepted the Messiah YEARS ago, I will pretty much speak 100% Messiah's teaching which includes promotion of the Law of Yahweh the correct way.

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Isayah 42:21, "Yahweh is well-pleased, for His righteousness' sake, to magnify the Law, and make it honorable"

Mattithyah 19-17-21, "But He said to him: Why do you question Me about righteousness? There is only One Who is the standard of perfection, and that is Yahweh; so if you would enter into life, keep the Laws of Yahweh. He then asked Yahshua; Which ones? Yahshua said: You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not steal. You shall not bear false testimony. Honor your father and mother, and; You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The young man said to Him; All these things I have kept from my youth up; what do I yet lack? Yahshua said to him: If you want to come to the perfection of Yahweh, go and sell of what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and you will be walking in Yahweh's ways, and following Me."

Some people view the Instructions of Yahweh through what the pharisees had turned it into, which is error, big time.

1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

 

[phil112]

............... I'm interested in Hebrew roots because they were things familar to Jesus.............

I had to chuckle! Familiar with them? More so than english? Come on now, He invented both of them.

 

[Hizikyah]

It's fine to learn about Jewish stuff. It is aberrant to be so caught up in it that you become a Jew-Christian. That is the danger of the HRM, they take it to an extreme and in some cases they deny Christ and literally become a Jew.

We had a man in the biblestudy chat room who stated he was the only one qualified to teach on the OT. He claimed to be able to read and write Hebrew. He taught that the NT has been altered and can not be trusted. He took a new convert to Christianity (she had been LDS) and after dealing with this "son of Belial" she rejected Christianity!

Even tho' many in the HRM never sink to this level, they do get stuck in it. They focus only on the law, post on the law, talk about the law, eat drink, sleep nothing but the Law. They loose track of the forest from the trees and became very lopsided in their theology. Yes, it is fine to study the OT and I have. It is fine to study Hebrew and I have. It is fine to learn about the feasts and I have. Yet it is not fine to sink to such a level that you no longer identify with other Christians.

I keep seeing posts of people using a particular person and using their erroneous acts to pait a picture against any who whould like to use the Fathers real name of actually listen to what Him and the Messiah say. There were 100s of christians raping children and that caused many to fall away and even become a molester themselves...Around me there are at least 3 christian pastors I know that have turned people away, 2 are gay and the other is well, too much to say here. I am not using there people to testify against a group, no their actions testify against themselves and themselves only, their fruit shows them. (Hopefully they change) Their doctrines are just as bad as their actions, or worse, one of them teaches literalyy "those stupid 10 commandments" and "you dont have to ask for forgiveness, youve already been forgiven" which is a twisting of mercy to a very dangerous degree.

But you will not see me using theses people to testify against a group of people.

 

[phil112]

I keep seeing posts of people using a particular person and using their erroneous acts to pait a picture against any who whould like to use the Fathers real name of actually listen to what Him and the Messiah say. There were 100s of christians raping children and that caused many to fall away and even become a molester themselves...Around me there are at least 3 christian pastors I know that have turned people away, 2 are gay and the other is well, too much to say here. I am not using there people to testify against a group, no their actions testify against themselves and themselves only, their fruit shows them. (Hopefully they change) Their doctrines are just as bad as their actions, or worse, one of them teaches literalyy "those stupid 10 commandments" and "you dont have to ask for forgiveness, youve already been forgiven" which is a twisting of mercy to a very dangerous degree.

But you will not see me using theses people to testify against a group of people.

And yet that is exactly what you just did. Painting some here in the picture of those. You have a long way to go, if you expect to be getting anywhere, that is.

 

[JaumeJ]

I believe many have been brought to Jesus Christ, Yeshua, who never would have understood a thing about grace had it inot been for including all things of the Word that go back to Adam, and before actually. Jesus Christ refers to the faith of Abraham, and tells the, then, Jews that God is able to raise up children of Abraham from the very stones. This was not a cloaked teaching. All who have come to Yeshua have entered that Gate promised the offspring of Abraham. That Gate is Jesus Christ, and we all enter to be God's chosen people along with those already inside......Do not confuse the synagogue of Satan with those who believe but have not yet been called out. Because of grace we can appreciate the value of the law in our daily walk with Jesus Christ, and we may also use the wisdom of the law in order to steer clear of evil doers. We all know them by the fruit they bear. If one does not, then he must learn more from Jesus Christ in His Gospel, and from Him also in all of His Word, for He is the Word.

Recognizing that all who received the Gospel from a fellow Jew, Yeshua, were indeed Jews is a good start in the journey of discovering our true roots in the faith of Abraham.

The point is where is Jesus in your laws? Why do you not teach Jesus and him crucified. Does the HRM only focus on themselves, and not share the gospel with the lost because they are lost. Isn't that what you are called to do, or are
you only to yourselves. Saying i stand alone, i keep all the laws, but i will not raise on finger to go and minister to those
ungodly sinners, It might rub off. Where is your love?, where is your fruit?, what are you called for? Are you using your talents? Do you care about them at all?

How do the HRM minister? Serious question? Do you? Do you only tell them they must keep laws?
If we where in the great trib. right now, what are you going to tell people?
I would hope, it would be repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ that your sins may be forgiven.

 

[Hizikyah]

And yet that is exactly what you just did. Painting some here in the picture of those. You have a long way to go, if you expect to be getting anywhere, that is.

So where did I say any sect, group, or denomination is responsible for these actions????

No I said, " no their actions testify against themselves and themselves only"

 

[Hizikyah]

Is it more cult like to follow this?

Leviticus 23:21, "And you shall proclaim on that same day that it may be a Holy Convocation to you. You shall do no regular work on it. It shall be a statute forever in all your dwellings throughout your generations."

or this?

"... it appeared an unworthy thing that in the celebration of this most holy feast we should follow the practice of the Jews, who have impiously defiled their hands with enormous sin, and are, therefore, deservedly afflicted with blindness of soul. ... Let us then have nothing in common with the detestable Jewish crowd; for we have received from our Saviour a different way." (Eusebius, Life of Constantine Vol. III Ch. XVIII Life of Constantine (Book III)

 

[JaumeJ]

Above in post #1726, I forgot the most important reason for delving into our Hebrew roots, and it is from Yeshua, Who teaches, "Salvation is from the Jews."

 

[secularhermit]

I believe many have been brought to Jesus Christ, Yeshua, who never would have understood a thing about grace had it inot been for including all things of the Word that go back to Adam, and before actually. Jesus Christ refers to the faith of Abraham, and tells the, then, Jews that God is able to raise up children of Abraham from the very stones. This was not a cloaked teaching. All who have come to Yeshua have entered that Gate promised the offspring of Abraham. That Gate is Jesus Christ, and we all enter to be God's chosen people along with those already inside......Do not confuse the synagogue of Satan with those who believe but have not yet been called out. Because of grace we can appreciate the value of the law in our daily walk with Jesus Christ, and we may also use the wisdom of the law in order to steer clear of evil doers. We all know them by the fruit they bear. If one does not, then he must learn more from Jesus Christ in His Gospel, and from Him also in all of His Word, for He is the Word.

Recognizing that all who received the Gospel from a fellow Jew, Yeshua, were indeed Jews is a good start in the journey of discovering our true roots in the faith of Abraham.

What I have seen, lately, is an antisemitist movement, even inside Christianity, particularly when many insist on saying Jewish nation killed Jesus and, of course, we don´t see we kill each time we killed some else´s faith.

Yet jews did wrong when saying: " Mat 27:25 All the people answered, "The responsibility for killing him will rest on us and our children." or "Mat 27:25 And all the people answered, "His blood be on us and on our children!" "

The truth still is this: "Jer 31:30 But each person will die for his own sin. Whoever eats sour grapes will have his own teeth set on edge."
He is fair enough to see it better than us: Jer 31:30 But everyone shall die for his own iniquity. Each man who eats sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge.


Although Jews are seemed -to be blamed- for those things Jesus prophesied: "Mat_23:35 As a result, you will be held accountable for all the innocent blood of those murdered on earth, from the murder of righteous Abel to that of Zechariah, son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. "

 

[danschance]

I keep seeing posts of people using a particular person and using their erroneous acts to pait a picture against any who whould like to use the Fathers real name of actually listen to what Him and the Messiah say. There were 100s of christians raping children and that caused many to fall away and even become a molester themselves...Around me there are at least 3 christian pastors I know that have turned people away, 2 are gay and the other is well, too much to say here. I am not using there people to testify against a group, no their actions testify against themselves and themselves only, their fruit shows them. (Hopefully they change) Their doctrines are just as bad as their actions, or worse, one of them teaches literalyy "those stupid 10 commandments" and "you dont have to ask for forgiveness, youve already been forgiven" which is a twisting of mercy to a very dangerous degree.

But you will not see me using theses people to testify against a group of people.

Yet these are the things I have seen. I know another lady who rejected Jesus and converted to Judaism. While this is just one person, I am sure there are many more like her. Those in the HRM are diverse and can be difficult to generalize. Yet I think I can. They create lies about Christians not in the group. I have seen many examples of this right here. They feel like they are better than those not in the HRM. Again, I have seen many examples of this right here. They read the OT more than the NT and believe the OT is more important than the NT. The downgrade grace and upgrade the law. In fact they seem preoccupied with the law.

 

[RedTent]

Yet these are the things I have seen. I know another lady who rejected Jesus and converted to Judaism. While this is just one person, I am sure there are many more like her. Those in the HRM are diverse and can be difficult to generalize. Yet I think I can. They create lies about Christians not in the group. I have seen many examples of this right here. They feel like they are better than those not in the HRM. Again, I have seen many examples of this right here. They read the OT more than the NT and believe the OT is more important than the NT. The downgrade grace and upgrade the law. In fact they seem preoccupied with the law.

The HRM is all about balance, not your "this is better", but listening to all. Look at you reading one testament more than the other, rather than seeing the unity in all. Look at finding some person who does something and saying it is true of a group.

Post after post is opposed to the Old Testament, but you don't find those who accept the HRM being opposed to the New Testament or to the Old Testament.

Scripture tells us to be humble before the Lord and to learn of Him. Your posts say to learn "this" as better than "that." The only way that scripture says that is that redemption through Christ is the base of all scripture from Genesis to Revelation.

 

[Hizikyah]

Yet these are the things I have seen. I know another lady who rejected Jesus and converted to Judaism. While this is just one person, I am sure there are many more like her. Those in the HRM are diverse and can be difficult to generalize. Yet I think I can. They create lies about Christians not in the group. I have seen many examples of this right here. They feel like they are better than those not in the HRM. Again, I have seen many examples of this right here. They read the OT more than the NT and believe the OT is more important than the NT. The downgrade grace and upgrade the law. In fact they seem preoccupied with the law.

What need is there for a judge? You seem to have it under control.

 

[danschance]

What need is there for a judge? You seem to have it under control.

No, I am not judging. I am reporting what I have seen right here. How many times have those in the HRM accused other Christians as being lawless? You are not like that, to your credit, but others sink to that level. Odd, how I have spoken against this many times and you have not or anyone else in the HRM corrected others from this.

 

[Hizikyah]

No, I am not judging. I am reporting what I have seen right here. How many times have those in the HRM accused other Christians as being lawless? You are not like that, to your credit, but others sink to that level. Odd, how I have spoken against this many times and you have not or anyone else in the HRM corrected others from this.

But my point is we cant bunch everybody into a group because of what some do, if this were so we could put every group/denomination into a evil category.

That is what I tried to illustrate earlier by saying I know a few people that dont just sin but are literally way off on the other side, yet claim Christianity, and they are pastors, yet I can not place all into that category bu saying Christians or Catholics or baptist are like this...

 

[phil112]

............... Your posts say to learn "this" as better than "that." The only way that scripture says that is that redemption through Christ is the base of all scripture from Genesis to Revelation.

"this" is better than "that".

For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

You are wilfully blinded. You reject clear scripture.

 

[Karraster]

What I have seen, lately, is an antisemitist movement, even inside Christianity, particularly when many insist on saying Jewish nation killed Jesus and, of course, we don´t see we kill each time we killed some else´s faith.

Yet jews did wrong when saying: " Mat 27:25 All the people answered, "The responsibility for killing him will rest on us and our children." or "Mat 27:25 And all the people answered, "His blood be on us and on our children!" "

The truth still is this: "Jer 31:30 But each person will die for his own sin. Whoever eats sour grapes will have his own teeth set on edge."
He is fair enough to see it better than us: Jer 31:30 But everyone shall die for his own iniquity. Each man who eats sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge.


Although Jews are seemed -to be blamed- for those things Jesus prophesied: "Mat_23:35 As a result, you will be held accountable for all the innocent blood of those murdered on earth, from the murder of righteous Abel to that of Zechariah, son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. "

You are quite correct about antisemitism being on the rise, and at an alarming rate. Scripture tells us there is an Amalek spirit in every generation. People who call themselves Christian should know the history, yet there is a hatred for anything Jewish or Hebrew or Torah even here on cc by a few. satan has deceived them, for we are commanded to be a blessing to our Jewish brothers and love them even as Messiah loves them and remember He ask for forgiveness for the ones who were there, asking Father to forgive them for they knew not what they were doing.

Almighty has sworn to make war with those who persecute His chosen. Anyone with a hatred of the "Jews" will answer for it one day.

Exodus 17; 15,16 Moses built an altar and named it The LORD is My Banner; 16and he said, "The LORD has sworn; the LORD will have war against Amalek from generation to generation."

 

[danschance]

The HRM is all about balance, not your "this is better", but listening to all. Look at you reading one testament more than the other, rather than seeing the unity in all. Look at finding some person who does something and saying it is true of a group.

Post after post is opposed to the Old Testament, but you don't find those who accept the HRM being opposed to the New Testament or to the Old Testament.

Scripture tells us to be humble before the Lord and to learn of Him. Your posts say to learn "this" as better than "that." The only way that scripture says that is that redemption through Christ is the base of all scripture from Genesis to Revelation.

You are creating lies and fabrications and proving everything I said.

Lie number 1 - "The HRM is about balance."


Lie number 2 - 'not your "this is better"'
I never said that.

Lie number 3 - " Look at you reading one testament more than the other, rather than seeing the unity in all"
This is a blatant lie as I told you several times before that I read the whole bible. I have never said anything to the contrary. For the record, it is none of your business what I read.

Lie number 4 - "Post after post is opposed to the Old Testament"
Again, I never said this and it is a lie. I enjoy reading the OT to see how it relates to Christ. Sometimes God even tells me thing about the OT.

Lie number 5 - "Your posts say to learn "this" as better than "that."
Where have I said what people should believe? That is not my style.

Your posts are frequently filled lies and exaggerations and almost never include a scripture. So please, if you want to say what I believe, please post the statement I made and not spin a yarn about what you think I may of said.

 

[secularhermit]

Above in post #1726, I forgot the most important reason for delving into our Hebrew roots, and it is from Yeshua, Who teaches, "Salvation is from the Jews."

Joh_4:22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.

Joh 4:22 You Samaritans worship something you don't understand. We Jews understand what we worship, since salvation comes from the Jews.

Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Joh 4:22 אתם משתחוים אל־אשר לא ידעתם ואנחנו משתחוים אל־אשר ידענו כי הישועה מן־היהודים היא׃

 

[Karraster]

[h=3]Acts 17:22-23[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, To The Unknown God. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.