Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?
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K
John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
anyway I think this passage says it all.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
anyway I think this passage says it all.
Mosheh prophesied about Messiah, and said He is the One we must hear and obey.
Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"
"listen" is word #8085 שָׁמַע shama` {shaw-mah'}
Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)
Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey
So show me where Messiah says not to follow the Law of Yahweh. Because there are a number where He says to follow Yahweh's Laws, and I am a follower of Messiah.
Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."
Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."
Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."
iniquity is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness
Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"
Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."
Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"
"listen" is word #8085 שָׁמַע shama` {shaw-mah'}
Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)
Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey
So show me where Messiah says not to follow the Law of Yahweh. Because there are a number where He says to follow Yahweh's Laws, and I am a follower of Messiah.
Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."
Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."
Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."
iniquity is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness
Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"
Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."
K
You cannot live by the law unless your faith is in the cross. That is an admition of your inability to do so. That means according to Romans and Galatians. That your faith must be firmly in the Cross and nothing else. The Holy Spirit will only work in us as our faith is in the cross. Just like Paul said when I looked to law I died and held captive. That word captive means bondage and bondage comes from sin which is instigated by Satan. Jesus said come unto me for I shall give you rest. rest from what? Sin. what defines sin? Law. God's morality is instituted in us by our faith in the cross, which gives the Holy Spirit the legal right to sanctify us and produce fruit in us, by the means of the cross and not what we do. If our faith is in the cross, the Holy Spirit will detour us from looking at Bathsheba bathing and detour us from tricking her husband to sleep with her so that they think its Uzziahs baby and when that didn't work, detour us from sending him to front battle line insuring his death. So, that David could legally marry her. This man after God's own heart. Whose seed brought the Messiah.
Isn't this fighting strange!! They use what Christ and Paul says to fight God, Christ, and scripture. They know that we are saved through Christ, that we are not saved through law. They all even know of the Holy Spirit. You would think that would lead them home.
It impresses me that they all use such meanness toward others as they express their denial of scripture telling of the Father and eternal principles.
It impresses me that they all use such meanness toward others as they express their denial of scripture telling of the Father and eternal principles.
Which is fine; all Scripture is good for instruction in righteousness, but the Law is milk, not meat; meat is the New Covenant righteousness; the gift of what God calls a better Covenant built on better promises - a Covenant which He was willing to come in the flesh to ratify with His own Blood (see Hebrews chapters 7-10).
No, Karraster, they're shadows. They point to the Reality, Who is Christ, and in Whom every promise of God is fulfilled.
-JGIG
Reality? Here's some:[SUP]
Deut2914 [/SUP]Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath; [SUP]15 [/SUP]but with him that standeth here with us this day before the Lord our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day: [SUP]16 [/SUP](for ye know how we have dwelt in the land of Egypt; and how we came through the nations which ye passed by; [SUP]17 [/SUP]and ye have seen their abominations, and their idols, wood and stone, silver and gold, which were among them
[SUP]18 [/SUP]lest there should be among you man, or woman, or family, or tribe, whose heart turneth away this day from the Lord our God, to go and serve the gods of these nations; lest there should be among you a root that beareth gall and wormwood; [SUP]19 [/SUP]and it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst: [SUP]20 [/SUP]the Lord will not spare him, but then the anger of the Lord and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the Lord shall blot out his name from under heaven.
You can't escape God's Law by imagining a vain thing.. That's reality.
Deut2914 [/SUP]Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath; [SUP]15 [/SUP]but with him that standeth here with us this day before the Lord our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day: [SUP]16 [/SUP](for ye know how we have dwelt in the land of Egypt; and how we came through the nations which ye passed by; [SUP]17 [/SUP]and ye have seen their abominations, and their idols, wood and stone, silver and gold, which were among them
[SUP]18 [/SUP]lest there should be among you man, or woman, or family, or tribe, whose heart turneth away this day from the Lord our God, to go and serve the gods of these nations; lest there should be among you a root that beareth gall and wormwood; [SUP]19 [/SUP]and it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst: [SUP]20 [/SUP]the Lord will not spare him, but then the anger of the Lord and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the Lord shall blot out his name from under heaven. You can't escape God's Law by imagining a vain thing.. That's reality.
-JGIG
No, when the Law entered the world, death ensued (3000 died when the Law was given). The Law held men accountable for their sins; before the Law, Israel was operating under a covenant of Grace (Abrahamic Covenant). They mumbled, grumbled, sinned - yet God was patient with them and provided for them as they made their trek out of Egypt. Yet they continued to display mistrust for God, so God gave them perceived control over their situation through the Law: obey and be blessed; disobey and be cursed. The Israelites arrogantly said to Moses, "All that God tells us to do, we will do."
That didn't work out so well, did it?
Repeated rebellion and arrogance resulted in death (either to the people themselves or to sacrificial substitutes) and exile, time after time after time. God remained faithful for His Glory and His purposes throughout.
But the Tree of Life is better.
To the contrary; the Adversary points to the Knowledge of Good and Evil (Law) as superior to the Tree of Life (Christ) to steer you away from Christ. The Law itself does not exalt itself, but leads us to Christ. When we come to Christ, we die to the Law (Rom. 7, Gal. 2). We then walk in the new way of the Spirit, joined to Christ, in order to bear Fruit unto God.
They are not destroyed; the Law still serves a purpose today and is good as long as it is used properly (1 Tim. 1). We don't 'remember' Messiah by turning back to Law once we have died to it in order to be joined to Christ; that's spiritual adultery:
-JGIG
That didn't work out so well, did it?
Repeated rebellion and arrogance resulted in death (either to the people themselves or to sacrificial substitutes) and exile, time after time after time. God remained faithful for His Glory and His purposes throughout.
But the Tree of Life is better.
To the contrary; the Adversary points to the Knowledge of Good and Evil (Law) as superior to the Tree of Life (Christ) to steer you away from Christ. The Law itself does not exalt itself, but leads us to Christ. When we come to Christ, we die to the Law (Rom. 7, Gal. 2). We then walk in the new way of the Spirit, joined to Christ, in order to bear Fruit unto God.
They are not destroyed; the Law still serves a purpose today and is good as long as it is used properly (1 Tim. 1). We don't 'remember' Messiah by turning back to Law once we have died to it in order to be joined to Christ; that's spiritual adultery:
-JGIG
Here's the thing: You're identifying God's commandments after the Cross as the Laws given at Sinai. The commandments given after the Cross are believe on the One He has sent and love one another. That's it. And love is the Fruit of the Spirit, and love fulfills every Law that God still cares about (Gal. 5, Rom. 13).
-JGIG
P.S. What will Messiah be judging when He returns?
-JGIG
P.S. What will Messiah be judging when He returns?
Again, you err in defining God's commands universally as the Laws given at Sinai. God gave commands before Sinai; God gave commands after Sinai. He also gave commands after the Work of the Cross: Believe in the One I have sent and love one another.
More specifically - when the Laws given to Israel at Sinai are referred to in the New Covenant Scriptures, the Greek word, nomos is used. When commandments of God after the Cross are referred to in the New Covenant Scriptures, not referring to the Laws given to Israel at Sinai, the Greek word, entole is used.
You're advocating keeping the wrong set of laws after the Cross.
-JGIG
More specifically - when the Laws given to Israel at Sinai are referred to in the New Covenant Scriptures, the Greek word, nomos is used. When commandments of God after the Cross are referred to in the New Covenant Scriptures, not referring to the Laws given to Israel at Sinai, the Greek word, entole is used.
You're advocating keeping the wrong set of laws after the Cross.
-JGIG
'ek' is a primary root word:
Root Word (Etymology)
Your focus, your origin, is Law. Your center is Law. And as such, you put yourself under a curse because you do not obey all that applies to you.
Your center, the origin of your actions needs to be Christ. Then bearing Fruit unto God is possible (Rom. 7, Gal. 5).
If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. (Gal. 5)
-JGIG
Root Word (Etymology)
A primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds),
from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Your focus, your origin, is Law. Your center is Law. And as such, you put yourself under a curse because you do not obey all that applies to you.
Your center, the origin of your actions needs to be Christ. Then bearing Fruit unto God is possible (Rom. 7, Gal. 5).
If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. (Gal. 5)
-JGIG
anomia = without law (general sense - God's commands either before or after the Cross, depending on if one is under the Old Covenant or the New Covenant)
anomos = without the Laws given to Israel at Sinai
Note the difference and which Greek word was used where and in what texts and the implications.
-JGIG
- the condition of without law
- because ignorant of it
- because of violating it
2. contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness
anomos = without the Laws given to Israel at Sinai
[*=1]destitute of (the Mosaic) law
[*=1]of the Gentiles
2. departing from the law, a violator of the law, lawless, wicked
Note the difference and which Greek word was used where and in what texts and the implications.
-JGIG