Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?
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God is not dead. God is eternal, and all scripture explaining His essence thousands of years ago is explaining His essence today. Christ and God are one. "Dead" does not apply to any scripture. The temple at Jerusalem was destroyed in 70AD, and completely destroyed in 135 AD. The spiritual temple, and all that word should mean to us was never destroyed.
All of scripture is applicable to us, even the 613 laws. These laws, for instance has the word temple in them. These laws has God's love for us in them and how we can live the life on this earth that God wants for us. It uses a lifestyle long past, instructions to priests that Christ replaced, it talks to a world that had no jails as we do, but we are to see the spiritual essence of these laws and how justice for all should be our goal.
We are not to read scripture in a legalistic way, as you seem to be saying, and we are not to read scripture without seeing how our world and the world of the spirit is connected. But we ARE to read scripture.
All of scripture is applicable to us, even the 613 laws. These laws, for instance has the word temple in them. These laws has God's love for us in them and how we can live the life on this earth that God wants for us. It uses a lifestyle long past, instructions to priests that Christ replaced, it talks to a world that had no jails as we do, but we are to see the spiritual essence of these laws and how justice for all should be our goal.
We are not to read scripture in a legalistic way, as you seem to be saying, and we are not to read scripture without seeing how our world and the world of the spirit is connected. But we ARE to read scripture.
L
A good study of Acts 15 would probably answer a lot of questions about HRM and other "law-keeping"/legalistic groups which claim to use Scripture to "proof-text" those "added" doctrines...like Sabbath keeping/Saturday worship, keeping kosher, keeping the Feasts (Leviticus 23), baptismal regeneration, tithing, etc.:
The proof is in the Scripture
"But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command [them] to keep the law of Moses. ¶ And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter." Acts 15:5
The issue of how to treat the gentile believers is not a new question in our day, the Apostles themselves dealt with this issue on more than one occasion. Acts 15 shines ample light on not only the question, but the answer as well. As we read in Acts 15, we see the bible "heavyweights" like Paul and Barnabas called on the carpet along with the rest of the apostles to figure this out. And as with most issues in the church, the whole problem started with a small handful of troublemakers:
"And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, [and said], Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved." Acts 15:1
A few bad apples...
Now, we are not told who these troublemakers are, but it was sufficient to throw a monkeywrench into the whole deal:
"When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question." Acts 15:2
And deal with it they did..."And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. Acts 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as [he did] unto us; Acts 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith." Acts 15:7-9
They acknowledged that while a gentile does not become a Jew when believing on the Messiah, the line of division between them no longer exists. From God's perspective then, there is no difference between a Jewish and Gentile believer in Christ. But they didn't stop there, they continued on to answer this question in a most resolute and final way.
The Apostles settle this question once and for all
"Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them." Acts 15:10-12
Peter is so bold that he stuns them all into silence, and uses this time to allow Paul and Barnabas to recount all the awesome 'miracles and wonders that God had wrought among the Gentiles by them'. Just when you think it can't get any more intense that it already is, James steps in begins to wrap it up:
"And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men [and] brethren, hearken unto me: Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. " Acts 15:13-18
The Hebrew Roots Cult Movement - Part 1: Origins and Beliefs
Here are the four things which were required of the Gentiles (only 4...not 613):
Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
The proof is in the Scripture
"But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command [them] to keep the law of Moses. ¶ And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter." Acts 15:5
The issue of how to treat the gentile believers is not a new question in our day, the Apostles themselves dealt with this issue on more than one occasion. Acts 15 shines ample light on not only the question, but the answer as well. As we read in Acts 15, we see the bible "heavyweights" like Paul and Barnabas called on the carpet along with the rest of the apostles to figure this out. And as with most issues in the church, the whole problem started with a small handful of troublemakers:
"And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, [and said], Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved." Acts 15:1
A few bad apples...
Now, we are not told who these troublemakers are, but it was sufficient to throw a monkeywrench into the whole deal:
"When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question." Acts 15:2
And deal with it they did..."And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. Acts 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as [he did] unto us; Acts 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith." Acts 15:7-9
They acknowledged that while a gentile does not become a Jew when believing on the Messiah, the line of division between them no longer exists. From God's perspective then, there is no difference between a Jewish and Gentile believer in Christ. But they didn't stop there, they continued on to answer this question in a most resolute and final way.
The Apostles settle this question once and for all
"Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them." Acts 15:10-12
Peter is so bold that he stuns them all into silence, and uses this time to allow Paul and Barnabas to recount all the awesome 'miracles and wonders that God had wrought among the Gentiles by them'. Just when you think it can't get any more intense that it already is, James steps in begins to wrap it up:
"And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men [and] brethren, hearken unto me: Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. " Acts 15:13-18
The Hebrew Roots Cult Movement - Part 1: Origins and Beliefs
Here are the four things which were required of the Gentiles (only 4...not 613):
Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
"they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood"
Is that all? So murder is ok? Stealing is ok? Lying is ok?
Oh is this the things they decided one must follow if they want to attend the congregation? (I know I have head every theologian make up his own opinion, but the context could be anything as long as it didnt come from the "OT" right)
I wonder what from lbood means? Possibly have anything to do with the Law that say remove the bolld from food before you eat it?
Synagogues were extremely strict back then, there was no come as you are, most had a list of pharisee laws one must follow to even walk through the door.
Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
Romans 13:9, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are briefly summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself."
Is that all? So murder is ok? Stealing is ok? Lying is ok?
Oh is this the things they decided one must follow if they want to attend the congregation? (I know I have head every theologian make up his own opinion, but the context could be anything as long as it didnt come from the "OT" right)
I wonder what from lbood means? Possibly have anything to do with the Law that say remove the bolld from food before you eat it?
Synagogues were extremely strict back then, there was no come as you are, most had a list of pharisee laws one must follow to even walk through the door.
Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
Romans 13:9, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are briefly summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself."
L
Of course not, this a weak argument that I've seen presented by the Lawyers many times.
Love is the law and the Law of Christ.
What kind of love lies. murders, and steals?
(Rom 13:8 KJV) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
(Gal 6:2 KJV) Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
Paul is reiterating the Law as "school" master:
(Gal 3:24 KJV) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
(Gal 3:25 KJV) But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
The prohibition of foods strangled etc. in Acts is basically the Noahide Laws.
Love is the law and the Law of Christ.
What kind of love lies. murders, and steals?
(Rom 13:8 KJV) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
(Gal 6:2 KJV) Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
Paul is reiterating the Law as "school" master:
(Gal 3:24 KJV) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
(Gal 3:25 KJV) But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
The prohibition of foods strangled etc. in Acts is basically the Noahide Laws.
The Lord Jesus didn't take any of the scriptures away from me or anyone else.
He gave me understanding of them. He didn't need to teach me Hebrew or Greek. He was able to teach me without them. I wasn't a scholar or a history buff. I was just a regular, average guy.
So now I don't need to rely on my understanding or on my strength or on my works. I rely on His. The gift He has given me and the work He does in me.
1 Corinthians 1:26-29
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
[SUP]27 [/SUP]But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
[SUP]29 [/SUP]That no flesh should glory in his presence.
So now, if I wasn't wise, but now appear to be it is the work of the Lord. If I wasn't mighty, but now appear to be, it is the work of the Lord. If I wasn't noble, but now appear to be, it is the work of the Lord. You might be able to see a theme here...
I wasn't anything but the Lord saved me anyway.
You think I am trying to do away with the Law, but I'm not. I'm trying to show Christians that they don't need the bondage of Judaism to be Holy before the Lord. In fact, Judaism is an impediment to the Christian. See Galatians...
Its nice to have an understanding of the Blood of the Lamb.
Its nice to have an understanding of Rest.
Its nice to have an understanding of what the feasts were celebrating.
But to go back and practice the ways of your strength and your will when you know they won't get you anywhere is futility. Why not trust the One who saved you to begin with? Surely He must have some future plans for you if He went through all that trouble. You think it was so you could go back and be better at Judaism than the Pharisees?
Romans 9:30-33
[SUP]30 [/SUP]What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
[SUP]32[/SUP]Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
[SUP]33 [/SUP]As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
He gave me understanding of them. He didn't need to teach me Hebrew or Greek. He was able to teach me without them. I wasn't a scholar or a history buff. I was just a regular, average guy.
So now I don't need to rely on my understanding or on my strength or on my works. I rely on His. The gift He has given me and the work He does in me.
1 Corinthians 1:26-29
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
[SUP]27 [/SUP]But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
[SUP]29 [/SUP]That no flesh should glory in his presence.
So now, if I wasn't wise, but now appear to be it is the work of the Lord. If I wasn't mighty, but now appear to be, it is the work of the Lord. If I wasn't noble, but now appear to be, it is the work of the Lord. You might be able to see a theme here...
I wasn't anything but the Lord saved me anyway.
You think I am trying to do away with the Law, but I'm not. I'm trying to show Christians that they don't need the bondage of Judaism to be Holy before the Lord. In fact, Judaism is an impediment to the Christian. See Galatians...
Its nice to have an understanding of the Blood of the Lamb.
Its nice to have an understanding of Rest.
Its nice to have an understanding of what the feasts were celebrating.
But to go back and practice the ways of your strength and your will when you know they won't get you anywhere is futility. Why not trust the One who saved you to begin with? Surely He must have some future plans for you if He went through all that trouble. You think it was so you could go back and be better at Judaism than the Pharisees?
Romans 9:30-33
[SUP]30 [/SUP]What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
[SUP]32[/SUP]Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
[SUP]33 [/SUP]As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Not everyone who subjects themselves to Yahweh's Law does so to be saved.
Some do it because they love the Creator and want to do His will.
It is possible.
Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."
"Law" is word #H8451 - torah - torah: direction, instruction, law Original Word: תּוֹרָה Part of Speech: Noun Feminine Transliteration: torah
Yahchanan 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The Words (Instructions) that I speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting."
Ezekiyl 36:26-27, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep My Laws."
Some do it because they love the Creator and want to do His will.
It is possible.
Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."
"Law" is word #H8451 - torah - torah: direction, instruction, law Original Word: תּוֹרָה Part of Speech: Noun Feminine Transliteration: torah
Yahchanan 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The Words (Instructions) that I speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting."
Ezekiyl 36:26-27, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep My Laws."
It is so important to understand that these men Paul was against wanted such as circumcision and food laws to come FIRST before faith. For such as idol worshippers to cut a bit of skin off never ever did a thing. It was faith that did the work. Teaching these things to gentiles before faith was fought against.
All through Acts there is talk against Paul for teaching it wasn't necessary, saying he was teaching against Torah, just as you are teaching that he says. He isn't teaching against Torah. Read his defense in Acts. Read what he says about Torah. If you believe that, you believe that Paul's word is different from Christ's word.
All through Acts there is talk against Paul for teaching it wasn't necessary, saying he was teaching against Torah, just as you are teaching that he says. He isn't teaching against Torah. Read his defense in Acts. Read what he says about Torah. If you believe that, you believe that Paul's word is different from Christ's word.
L
What "certain" laws are you speaking of?
What does dead to the Law mean to you:
(Rom 7:4 KJV) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
(Gal 2:18 KJV) For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
(Gal 2:19 KJV) For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
What does dead to the Law mean to you:
(Rom 7:4 KJV) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
(Gal 2:18 KJV) For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
(Gal 2:19 KJV) For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
Whatever Law people dont want to follow, usually it Sabbath, that is usually the big one, 9 are ok, 10, NOPE...
You cherry pick Shaul well.
But Shaul (Paul) is recorded in Acts keeping the Feasts of Yahweh after his conversion.
and he said this:
Acts 24:14, "14 But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."
If you deeply study Romans 7 and 8 you will see the law that shaul is dead to is the law of sin.
Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."
KJV, "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."
You cherry pick Shaul well.
But Shaul (Paul) is recorded in Acts keeping the Feasts of Yahweh after his conversion.
and he said this:
Acts 24:14, "14 But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."
If you deeply study Romans 7 and 8 you will see the law that shaul is dead to is the law of sin.
Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."
KJV, "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."
The Mosaic Law says "If obedient they will be blessed, if disobedient will be punished." Are you assuming that by "punished" it means put to death? It could not mean that because all scripture is clear that life in God relates to the blood of Christ, whether it is in looking toward to what Christ did on the cross in shadows of that, or in the real blood. We can rely on the oneness of God and of scripture.
Either we can't rely on scripture or we have to look closer at the word punished.
Either we can't rely on scripture or we have to look closer at the word punished.
L
Yes Paul did keep some of the feasts, he was after all an Israelite and the old covenant was still in place till it vanished in 70AD but not because he thought he was obligated to do so
(Heb 8:13 KJV) In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
(1 Cor 9:20 KJV) And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
(1 Cor 9:21 KJV) To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
After 70AD keeping passover and other feasts was not possible and that was the intention in the destruction of the temple and the temple cult.
What HB'rs and Messianics are doing is rebuilding the "new" man in the image of the old "Jews" whereas we are told that there is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ.
(Col 3:11 KJV) Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
The sea in the bible is often symbolically used of the Gentiles.
In the new heavens and earth that exists today after the old heavens and earth of Moses and the covenant people was destroyed in 70AD John states in his revelation there is no more sea, we are all earth in Christ - neither Gentile nor Jew.
(Rev 21:1 KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
In Christ we are all children of Abraham:
(Gal 3:6 KJV) Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
(Gal 3:7 KJV) Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
(Rom 9:6 KJV) Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
(Rom 9:7 KJV) Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
(Rom 9:8 KJV) That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
I don't go about calling myself a Messianic Gentile, and it's an error for some going around trying to claim some phoney distinctiveness by calling themselves Messianic Jews.
(Heb 8:13 KJV) In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
(1 Cor 9:20 KJV) And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
(1 Cor 9:21 KJV) To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
After 70AD keeping passover and other feasts was not possible and that was the intention in the destruction of the temple and the temple cult.
What HB'rs and Messianics are doing is rebuilding the "new" man in the image of the old "Jews" whereas we are told that there is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ.
(Col 3:11 KJV) Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
The sea in the bible is often symbolically used of the Gentiles.
In the new heavens and earth that exists today after the old heavens and earth of Moses and the covenant people was destroyed in 70AD John states in his revelation there is no more sea, we are all earth in Christ - neither Gentile nor Jew.
(Rev 21:1 KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
In Christ we are all children of Abraham:
(Gal 3:6 KJV) Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
(Gal 3:7 KJV) Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
(Rom 9:6 KJV) Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
(Rom 9:7 KJV) Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
(Rom 9:8 KJV) That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
I don't go about calling myself a Messianic Gentile, and it's an error for some going around trying to claim some phoney distinctiveness by calling themselves Messianic Jews.
When did he tell you his reasoning behind keeping the Feasts?
Also Shaul says there is no difference between Jew and Gentile, so that is not a Spiritually true argument.
1 Thessalonians 5:1, "But concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need that I should write to you."
Most have no clue what this verse means.
Also Shaul says there is no difference between Jew and Gentile, so that is not a Spiritually true argument.
1 Thessalonians 5:1, "But concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need that I should write to you."
Most have no clue what this verse means.
The covenant ratified in the blood of Messiah does not abolish the Laws of Yahweh
Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."
"being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ"
After 70AD keeping passover and other feasts was not possible and that was the intention in the destruction of the temple and the temple cult.
One Feasts are not only for Jews, never were:
Exodus 12:48-49, "And when a stranger lives among you and wants to sacrifice the Passover to Yahweh, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near, and sacrifice it; and he shall be as a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it. One Law shall be for the nativeborn and for the stranger who dwells among you."
And seeing how half of them are looking foreward to the 2nd coming of Messiah, why woulf they be discarded as "old?"
That is why:
Hebrews 4:1, "Therefore, since a promise of entering His rest remains..."
Colossians 2:17, "which are a shadow of the things to come..."
The 7th day Sabbath points to the 1,000 yr reign and the remaining unfulfilled Feast days point to Messiah's return.
Oh, and Yahweh said to honor His Feasts perpetually, for all generations.
Leviticus 23:21, "And you shall proclaim on that same day that it may be a Holy Convocation to you. You shall do no regular work on it. It shall be a statute forever in all your dwellings throughout your generations."
The new heavens and new earth do not exist today. WOW.
But if it did:
Isayah 66:22-23, "For as the new heavens and the new earth which I will make will remain before Me, says Yahweh: so will your seed and your name remain. And it will come to pass that from one New Moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, all flesh will come to worship before Me, says Yahweh."
Why are you not (if you are not) honoring Sabbath? For it is clearly written.
I agree with this 100%
There is only followers of Yahweh or non-followers of Yahweh. The followers of Yahweh are the body of Messiah.
Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."
"being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ"
After 70AD keeping passover and other feasts was not possible and that was the intention in the destruction of the temple and the temple cult.
One Feasts are not only for Jews, never were:
Exodus 12:48-49, "And when a stranger lives among you and wants to sacrifice the Passover to Yahweh, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near, and sacrifice it; and he shall be as a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it. One Law shall be for the nativeborn and for the stranger who dwells among you."
And seeing how half of them are looking foreward to the 2nd coming of Messiah, why woulf they be discarded as "old?"
That is why:
Hebrews 4:1, "Therefore, since a promise of entering His rest remains..."
Colossians 2:17, "which are a shadow of the things to come..."
The 7th day Sabbath points to the 1,000 yr reign and the remaining unfulfilled Feast days point to Messiah's return.
Oh, and Yahweh said to honor His Feasts perpetually, for all generations.
Leviticus 23:21, "And you shall proclaim on that same day that it may be a Holy Convocation to you. You shall do no regular work on it. It shall be a statute forever in all your dwellings throughout your generations."
The new heavens and new earth do not exist today. WOW.
But if it did:
Isayah 66:22-23, "For as the new heavens and the new earth which I will make will remain before Me, says Yahweh: so will your seed and your name remain. And it will come to pass that from one New Moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, all flesh will come to worship before Me, says Yahweh."
Why are you not (if you are not) honoring Sabbath? For it is clearly written.
I agree with this 100%
There is only followers of Yahweh or non-followers of Yahweh. The followers of Yahweh are the body of Messiah.
So because the Jews were still reading the law of Moses (which we should still read) then everything else that was written is void. The apostles clearly told them not to get circumcised. And Paul says:
1 Corinthians 7:18 Was any man called when he was already circumcised? He is not to become uncircumcised. Has anyone been called in uncircumcision? He is not to be circumcised.
and
Galatians 5:2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
Circumcision was a command of the OT, was it not? Something changed. From the Law of Death to the Law of Grace
1 Corinthians 7:18 Was any man called when he was already circumcised? He is not to become uncircumcised. Has anyone been called in uncircumcision? He is not to be circumcised.
and
Galatians 5:2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
Circumcision was a command of the OT, was it not? Something changed. From the Law of Death to the Law of Grace
D
The beginning of Christianity started with a handful of Jews, grew among the Jews and then expoded on to the world. Christianity has now made inroads into every country. So those snared in the HRM want to believe we should all be like the jews were, torah observant. They claim Paul was torah observant and point to the times he did Jewish activites and they ignore what Paul said about them.
They ignore the clear words of Paul who says he is not under the law himself, but engages in the law to win those under the law and this is not the law of sin he is referring to. He is clearing referring to the law of Moses. So when he was with the Jews, of course he observed the same things they do. Of course he went to synagogues and the temple and observed feast so that he could convert Jesus to becoming Christians.
They ignore the clear words of Paul who says he is not under the law himself, but engages in the law to win those under the law and this is not the law of sin he is referring to. He is clearing referring to the law of Moses. So when he was with the Jews, of course he observed the same things they do. Of course he went to synagogues and the temple and observed feast so that he could convert Jesus to becoming Christians.