Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?

[Linda70]

Wow, you have a story to tell. Thank you for sharing it. You can even write it down as a blog here. I agree with everything you have said. The HRM should be avoided at all costs.

Danschance,

Thank you for the encouragement! I am a born again Christian and I am also ethnically Jewish. I was raised in Reform Judaism. When I was born again in 1974, I was kind of "pushed" into attending a Messianic congregation, which I did. But I also went to church (Baptist mainly) on Sunday morning.

The Messianic congregation was Torah observant and very much Hebrew Roots orientated. The Gentile membership outnumbered the Jewish membership and the Torah was pushed, wearing kippas (yarmulkes) and prayer shawls were reequired for the "clergy" and they had a small basket of kippas for the men who came to worship with us on Saturday morning.

After about 2 years of going to worship services on Saturday and also on Sunday, I was getting pretty confused and I wasn't growing spiritually. So I tried dropping out of Sunday morning worship at church because of conflicts. I was getting "chastised" by the "clergy" at the Messianic congregation because I was becoming like a Gentile...celebrating Easter and Christmas. Eventually I got sick and tired of seeing the Gentiles trying really hard to be Jews (wannabe Jews) and it was all phoney to me. These folks were doing something (putting themselves back under the Torah/Law of Moses) when they were saved by grace through faith in Christ alone. It was the Galatians error all over again.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

I began to study my Bible and eventually dropped out of that Messianic congregation altogether and started going back to church on Sunday morning.

I encourage those who "defend" the HRM and those who are curious about what HRM is all about, to read both parts of that article I posted.

Danschance, if you want to "blog" my post, feel free to do so. I'm not much into blogging...except on Facebook.

 

[RedTent]

..............
The Messianic congregation was Torah observant and very much Hebrew Roots orientated. The Gentile membership outnumbered the Jewish membership and the Torah was pushed, wearing kippas (yarmulkes) and prayer shawls were reequired for the "clergy" and they had a small basket of kippas for the men who came to worship with us on Saturday morning.

After about 2 years of going to worship services on Saturday and also on Sunday, I was getting pretty confused and I wasn't growing spiritually. So I tried dropping out of Sunday morning worship at church because of conflicts. I was getting "chastised" by the "clergy" at the Messianic congregation because I was becoming like a Gentile...celebrating Easter and Christmas. Eventually I got sick and tired of seeing the Gentiles trying really hard to be Jews (wannabe Jews) and it was all phoney to me. These folks were doing something (putting themselves back under the Torah/Law of Moses) when they were saved by grace through faith in Christ alone. It was the Galatians error all over again.
.

I can understand that you should never have gone to the HRM church with how you saw it. In the one I went to those two times, some wore prayer shawls, some kepas, but I never saw any of them doing this as "Jews" or "gentiles". It was to understand God. If these things had no spiritual meaning to you, then you must not do them. If you do it to be under Torah Law, then of course you must not do them. You had no business in this church. When these things are done for reasons you speak of, scripture tells us in Isaiah what God thinks of them, God says he hates them. It would be like someone taking communion without knowing Christ. They should not do it.

But neither should you condemn all who do these things. You can understand that it would be wrong for you to condemn people who take communion who know Christ. It is also wrong of you to condemn those who do physical things as an expression of the spiritual they are doing.

 

[TheAristocat]

Recently my wife was accused of belonging to a cult called the Hebrew Roots Movement. I didn't know what it was, so I went to this url: What is the Hebrew Roots movement?
I am wanting input, for both my wife and I believe that the Mosaic Law was given to us as a tool by God himself and is still relevant today. This causes great division, but just because we believe in the Bible as a whole, has the falling away gotten to the point where we are rejecting in bitterness parts of the Word of God that we don't like or what?

Old thread, but I still want to respond.

Parts of the Hebrew Roots Movement are cultic, because it's a broad term that encompasses many different beliefs. If you believe in the unadulterated Gospel (not adding baptism or circumcision or speaking in tongues or having to know God's real name), then you are saved. And I wouldn't see much that is cultic in your theology.

I think God gave us his laws for our benefit. Those who don't like to follow them misinterpret the New Testament and claim to understand how or why the old laws are no longer relevant, while providing no explanation as to their original significance. If you are a believer in the Gospel and live obedient to the Law of God, I see no cultic significance in your beliefs. Rather, I see a child of God wanting to obey his father out of love and respect.

 

[RedTent]

Old thread, but I still want to respond.

Parts of the Hebrew Roots Movement are cultic, because it's a broad term that encompasses many different beliefs. If you believe in the unadulterated Gospel (not adding baptism or circumcision or speaking in tongues or having to know God's real name), then you are saved. And I wouldn't see much that is cultic in your theology.

I think God gave us his laws for our benefit. Those who don't like to follow them misinterpret the New Testament and claim to understand how or why the old laws are no longer relevant, while providing no explanation as to their original significance. If you are a believer in the Gospel and live obedient to the Law of God, I see no cultic significance in your beliefs. Rather, I see a child of God wanting to obey his father out of love and respect.

If you see the HRM as a movement to obey law, you are missing the entire point of the movement. They are a movement to listen to all scripture, and according to scripture, law comes at the end of our worship, not the beginning. They agree.

 

[danschance]

Linda70,

God bless you for being here. I often attend the biblestudy chat room on this site. We had a man come in who was heavily indoctrinaed into the HRM. He claimed to be the only person on this website qualified to teach on the OT. He claimed to be a pastor, but I pity anyone under him. He taught we should be torah observant, eat Kosher foods, go to church on Saturday and the whole nine yards. He also claimed Hebrew was a better language than Greek, the NT can not be trusted, new converts should read the OT before reading the NT.

He caused a young lady who had just become free of Mormonism to fall for his pig slop and she rejected Christ!! She embraced Judaism instead, taking a huge spiritual step backward. It was horribly sad. He then tried to organize a study group where he dispensed his spiritual cyanide and some weaker Christians bought into it. Then he tried to organize an online study group and recruited people from this site. In the end he was banned but in the few weeks he was he caused so much harm.

So I am thankful you are here to counter this sort of junk.

 

[Grandpa]

Why, Grandpa, when this is supposed to be about the HRM does everyone change the subject and talk about the law?

Because this is the gist of your struggle and the main reason why Hebrew Roots Movement are a cult. Trying to mix Judaism with Christianity. As if Christianity by itself is not good enough.

 

[Grandpa]

Grandpa, get off it! You keep on and on about that they won't become perfect through works. Being that no one since the beginning of time has ever become perfect through works, I doubt that God is going to start allowing someone to start.

Maybe you are a unique person in the world who considers doing that, as you keep talking about it? No person who believes in studying scripture or who gives their life to Christ is joining you in this consideration, CERTAINLY not the HRM, for it is a movement of listening to all scripture.

It is a movement of a blend of Judaism and Christianity. It is not to be. Acts 15 explicitly as well as the rest of NT.

You wouldn't attempt to twist the meaning of Law into "instructions" if you weren't trying to do the same thing. We are always under instruction. Just not always by the Law. Our instruction by the law ends when we come to faith in Christ.

The HRM is not interested in all scripture if the people here are an example of the HRM. The example of listening to all of scripture is being saved by the Lord Jesus Christ and understanding we don't go back to the shadow for any of our blessings. The example of working at the law only comes from Judaism, which obviously is not listening to all scripture.

 

[Linda70]

Why haven't I heard about the Hebrew Roots movement?

As a rule, this spreading wave of false doctrine is not being addressed by the church. This is due to several reasons:

• There is a fear of appearing anti-Semitic
• The depth of the movement's doctrinal heresies is not generally known
• There is within the church in general a reluctance to address false doctrine

The movement usually hides their beliefs and presents itself as simply seeking to educate Christians concerning their Jewish heritage. As they become acclimated to the Jewish orientation the more aberrant doctrines are slowly introduced.

Some of the warning signs

• All Christians must adhere to a kosher diet
• The Sabbath can only be observed on Saturdays
• The Jewish festivals and holidays must still be observed today

The root of their symptomatic heresies is hermeneutic (having to do with the methodology used to interpret scripture) in nature. The Protestant Reformers used a grammatical-literal hermeneutic when interpreting scripture. In other words, it means what it says unless there is a significant reason to believe otherwise. This movement uses a grammatical-historical hermeneutic with a twist. Their underlying assumptions when approaching any scripture are:

Whatever God has ever commanded of those who seek Him (i.e., the Jews, their ancestors, their descendants, and Christians) is still in effect today (including the Levitical law)

Gentile followers of Christ were "grafted into" the Jews which they interpret to mean that Gentiles must assume Jewish customs if they really want to mature and please God

Based on those unquestionable assumptions, they then decide how they can best interpret a given scripture to support those beliefs. The farther down this rabbit hole they go, the more bizarre their doctrines become. Many see the New Testament as inferior to the Old (or a conspiracy by the Catholic church). More still say that Paul's teachings are contrary to Christ (since they have trouble with his obvious statements against their beliefs) and, therefore, reject his epistles as scripture. Some say that the only reason we aren't still sacrificing animals and stoning people for their sins is because there is no Temple and no Sanhedrin. But when they are restored then these will resume. Others go so far as to eventually reject Jesus as the Messiah and simply say that He was just a Rabbi. The inevitable outcome of following this train of thought is to put people back into bondage to the Law.

The Hebrew Roots Cult Movement - Part 1: Origins and Beliefs

 

[JaumeJ]

Too many are all to willing to curse what is Holy.

The law was made Holy by our Lord.

Yes, He completes the law, but keep in mind, if He completes it, it is He.

Read, no, study Romans more instead of teaching it.

 

[Larry_Stotle]

The Hebrew "roots" and Messianics are trying to revive a dead "religion". The old testament practices came to a full end in 70AD with the destruction of the temple and the judgment of the whor.e (aka apostate Israel of the 1st century AD)

The book of Hebrews tells us:


(Heb 8:13 KJV) In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Paul indeed taught the the law was not longer to be followed:

(Acts 21:21 KJV) And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

And we can understand Paul's reasoning when he describes the two covenants:

(Gal 4:21 KJV) Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

(Gal 4:22 KJV) For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

(Gal 4:23 KJV) But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

(Gal 4:24 KJV) Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

(Gal 4:25 KJV) For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

(Gal 4:26 KJV) But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

(Gal 4:30 KJV) Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

The casting out occured in 70AD at the end of the age.

What the HB'rs and Messianics would have us believe is that a ministration of death has somehow turned into a ministration of life in Christ:

(2 Cor 3:7 KJV) But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

(2 Cor 3:8 KJV) How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

They are also guilty of adultery and or bigamy by claiming they are married to Moses and Christ:

(Rom 7:4 KJV) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

(2 Cor 11:3 KJV) But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

(2 Cor 11:4 KJV) For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

 

[danschance]

Too many are all to willing to curse what is Holy.

The law was made Holy by our Lord.

Yes, He completes the law, but keep in mind, if He completes it, it is He.

Read, no, study Romans more instead of teaching it.

Let's forget about grace, and the gospel and winning souls for Christ. Lets just have a "law orgy" where we talk, write speak and study the law that Christ set us free from. Let's play dress-up and wear a kappa and tallit and say Jewish prayers instead of the Lord's prayer. Let's study the old covenant that held us in bondage to the law. Let's stop calling ourselves Christians and adopt the new and exciting term "messianic Jew, even if you are a gentile. Let's improve what God wrote in the NT by adding (restoring?) Hebrew names for God, Hebrew names all Greek names because we just know God would be so happy with us improving on what He wrote. Let's toss out our old crosses because that was an instrument of tourture and replace it with a star of David or a menorah.

Oh, God will be so happy with us if live in the shadows and not in the substance which belongs to Christ!!!!

16Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. Col 2:16-17

NO, I will not do the above. I prefer to be spirit led and not "law led" or agenda led. I accept all of the NT as God breathed scripture and do what it says. I have no problem with Romans or any other scripture. I will keep my crosses because the junk I listed above is pure foolishness.

 

[Grandpa]

Romans 3:31 [SUP] [/SUP]Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

How does our faith establish the law?

Romans 4:4-5
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

So it is established that those who work at the law are doing it out of debt. But those who have Faith in Christ believe that HE justifies the ungodly and no longer work at the law.

So how is not working at the law establishing the law? The Lord Jesus says to come to Him and He will give you rest.

You will rest from your work of iniquity. By coming to the Lord Jesus you will be given the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is what will work inside of you to establish the law, BY FAITH.

Galatians 5:22-23

[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

The fruit of the Holy Spirit establishes the law. There is only one way to obtain this fruit and it isn't by your working at the law or your knowledge of your "instructions" for living. You must come to and abide in Christ by Faith.

So does a person go back to the law for "instruction" because of their great faith in and great love of the Lord? No. A person works at the law because they don't understand what Christ has already done for them. They lack faith in His Work and seek to establish their own.

 

[RedTent]

Because this is the gist of your struggle and the main reason why Hebrew Roots Movement are a cult. Trying to mix Judaism with Christianity. As if Christianity by itself is not good enough.

Then it is the grist of your struggle with Christ, don't pass it on to the entire movement. It is not their struggle. Their struggle is a spiritual one.

 

[RedTent]

Let's forget about grace, and the gospel and winning souls for Christ. Lets just have a "law orgy" where we talk, write speak and study the law that Christ set us free from. Let's play dress-up and wear a kappa and tallit and say Jewish prayers instead of the Lord's prayer. Let's study the old covenant that held us in bondage to the law. Let's stop calling ourselves Christians and adopt the new and exciting term "messianic Jew, even if you are a gentile. Let's improve what God wrote in the NT by adding (restoring?) Hebrew names for God, Hebrew names all Greek names because we just know God would be so happy with us improving on what He wrote. Let's toss out our old crosses because that was an instrument of tourture and replace it with a star of David or a menorah.

Oh, God will be so happy with us if live in the shadows and not in the substance which belongs to Christ!!!!

NO, I will not do the above. I prefer to be spirit led and not "law led" or agenda led. I accept all of the NT as God breathed scripture and do what it says. I have no problem with Romans or any other scripture. I will keep my crosses because the junk I listed above is pure foolishness.

Now you are telling of your struggle with the Lord, and passing it on to others. To HRM, it is all about the gospel, all about Christ. You cannot take them out of it. A covenant cannot be broken, as a testament can be broken, but it can be amended. So the covenants need to be studied. Romans must be studied carefully to find out about Jews and gentiles, and know we all are equal before God, even if Jews are blessed for the task God gave them. So you are going to have to do this coming to terms with the shadows and the real thing, all of your problems by yourself, don't put it on others. If you can't look into these things and see Jesus front and center at the same time, I am sorry about that. Don't push your hang ups on others.

 

[danschance]

Now you are telling of your struggle with the Lord, and passing it on to others. To HRM, it is all about the gospel, all about Christ. You cannot take them out of it. A covenant cannot be broken, as a testament can be broken, but it can be amended. So the covenants need to be studied. Romans must be studied carefully to find out about Jews and gentiles, and know we all are equal before God, even if Jews are blessed for the task God gave them. So you are going to have to do this coming to terms with the shadows and the real thing, all of your problems by yourself, don't put it on others. If you can't look into these things and see Jesus front and center at the same time, I am sorry about that. Don't push your hang ups on others.

No, I was using satire to make a a point.

 

[JaumeJ]

So all of these quotes prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the founding fathers' understanding of the Word and the Gospel as delivered to them by the then living witnesses of our Savior worshipped via a dead religion? That is a novel interpretation of the Way. What is this religion that is the correct one today; I mean the one which ignores those taught by eye witnesses of our Lord? Tell all of us please.

The Hebrew "roots" and Messianics are trying to revive a dead "religion". The old testament practices came to a full end in 70AD with the destruction of the temple and the judgment of the whor.e (aka apostate Israel of the 1st century AD)

The book of Hebrews tells us:


(Heb 8:13 KJV) In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Paul indeed taught the the law was not longer to be followed:

(Acts 21:21 KJV) And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

And we can understand Paul's reasoning when he describes the two covenants:

(Gal 4:21 KJV) Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

(Gal 4:22 KJV) For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

(Gal 4:23 KJV) But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

(Gal 4:24 KJV) Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

(Gal 4:25 KJV) For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

(Gal 4:26 KJV) But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

(Gal 4:30 KJV) Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

The casting out occured in 70AD at the end of the age.

What the HB'rs and Messianics would have us believe is that a ministration of death has somehow turned into a ministration of life in Christ:

(2 Cor 3:7 KJV) But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

(2 Cor 3:8 KJV) How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

They are also guilty of adultery and or bigamy by claiming they are married to Moses and Christ:

(Rom 7:4 KJV) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

(2 Cor 11:3 KJV) But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

(2 Cor 11:4 KJV) For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

 

[RedTent]

It is a movement of a blend of Judaism and Christianity. It is not to be. Acts 15 explicitly as well as the rest of NT.

You wouldn't attempt to twist the meaning of Law into "instructions" if you weren't trying to do the same thing. We are always under instruction. Just not always by the Law. Our instruction by the law ends when we come to faith in Christ.

The HRM is not interested in all scripture if the people here are an example of the HRM. The example of listening to all of scripture is being saved by the Lord Jesus Christ and understanding we don't go back to the shadow for any of our blessings. The example of working at the law only comes from Judaism, which obviously is not listening to all scripture.

I have studied Hebrew very little, but at least I know enough Hebrew to know that using the word instructions to translate a word often used for law is not twisting, but could accurately be used.

For you, when Christ gave you forgiveness and the Holy Spirit, he took away all the rest scripture tells you. You have said this over and over. There are many scripture verses that says that forgiveness stays, grace stays, the Holy Spirit stays, and given the right place in our lives, so does all you call law stay. So, many don't agree with you.

 

[Larry_Stotle]

So all of these quotes prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the founding fathers' understanding of the Word and the Gospel as delivered to them by the then living witnesses of our Savior worshipped via a dead religion? That is a novel interpretation of the Way. What is this religion that is the correct one today; I mean the one which ignores those taught by eye witnesses of our Lord? Tell all of us please.

Not sure what you are trying to say here - let me clarify - when I said dead religion I'm speaking of it being dead now and after 70AD.

If you think that any of the law of Moses is applicable today let me know which of the 613 requirements of the old covenant should be followed?

 

[danschance]

Not sure what you are trying to say here - let me clarify - when I said dead religion I'm speaking of it being dead now and after 70AD.

If you think that any of the law of Moses is applicable today let me know which of the 613 requirements of the old covenant should be followed?

I agree that the Jewish religion is dead in the same way Mormonism is dead. You can not worship Christ from with in a religion that rejects Him. Jews who believed in Christ became converts to Christianity.

 

[JaumeJ]

Are you saying the founding forefathers of the Gospel of our Lord were under the 613 laws of Moses? This is not what those who believe our roots are from all of the Word practice. No, we recognize our spiritual forefather as being Abraham.

The teaching of Yeshua, Jesus, is clear that none of the commandments are no longer to be observed, and He is our Example and Teacher as to our conduct and faith. He mentions the faith of Abraham and sons of Abraham. This is the only "religion" recognized by the writings from Genesis through Revelation inclusive, that is, unless you know some new faith people are to follow.

If you believe sin still occurs even among the saved, then you believe the commandments for sin has no power without the commandments. If you believe you do not sin, then you are making yourself equal with Yeshua, Jesus. If you believe your sins are not held against you because of grace, then the Kingdom of Heaven is not far from you. Do not teach against the will of our Maker.

Not sure what you are trying to say here - let me clarify - when I said dead religion I'm speaking of it being dead now and after 70AD.

If you think that any of the law of Moses is applicable today let me know which of the 613 requirements of the old covenant should be followed?