Why do some Christians think modern crossdressing is an abomination?

[MsSpratt]

I was reading over past threads here and am surprised at the reasoning used to condemn some cross dressers and transgenders. Why would a modern cross dresser be an abomination? The context in Deuteronomy 22 seems to be more cultural to Israel of the day than universal for all time.

Is it possible that surrounding pagan peoples used cross dressing in their religious rituals? There could be many reasons why one wouldn't want to walk among the tents and camps of Israel and not be clearly distinguished as male or female from a distance (including personal protection, vulnerable to enemies, mistakenly offending a woman's husband and receiving harsh penalties, etc). Not to mention the sanitary issue of male / female body fluids that were in contact with under garments.

Modern cross dressing is something entirely different. When you're at the park and see men and women jogging, it's sometimes hard to discern genders from a distance because of all the shorts and exposed clothing that everyone wears anyway (male proper and female proper). But do we condemn a woman who wears her man's over sized t-shirts because she likes the way they feel and smell? Or a man who wears women's shorts / skinny jeans because they fit well? A transgender who has a naturally petite body? Or a woman who wears baggy man pants? Women tend to cross dress more than men because society gives them that freedom - I know many women who are NOT shy to personally shop in the men's section of any retail store. Why isn't that an abomination? To me it looks like a double standard and a cultural issue.

Aerin, this i don't get. why does a man who is not gay want to dress and look like a woman? or are you gay? i don't understand this. it's just wrong in every way. like, whatever you do in your own home is your business but why do you want to dress like a woman when people clearly know you're a man?

dude, it's wrong.

 

[pastac]

From a spiritual perspective and not this surface stuff on clothes I see this as just that surface stuff. This word play like Homosexuals, gay all that stuff which you wont find in the bible is manmade words used to describe biblical teachings and accepted forms of depravity as we know it.They had no pants as we know them in the biblical era they (men) wore tunics and animal skins and modified garments similar to dresses as we now know them. This is not about outward clothing as it is made out to be. This is much deeper. To be clothed in sin is worse than the otter garments we wear. I posted earlier in this thread I don't care what this guy wears to be blunt I do care however about his soul and his understanding.Just some thoughts

 

[didymos]

So instead of you taking the time to read the thread and then respond,you are blaming Aerin for not including all of the information that you felt should have been there? Do you do this with other conversations also,and just break into the middle of it without really knowing what is going on?

I'm not blaming anyone here, just making some constructive criticism. If you value the opinion of others on a matter you should incluse all important info in the initial question. You shouldn't expect people to sift through the rest of the thread looking for extra information. I didn't 'break into the middle' btw, but responded to that initial question. My (rhetorical) question to you is: do you always take things people say WAY out of proportion, because it sure looks like it.

Anyway: there's nothing in the Bible about how hermaphrodites should dress, so I guess they can wear whatever they like. However, life's all about making choices, so I would suggest that they stick to one of the two genders.

Let's not OVERcomplicate things. now, shall we?

 

[SarahM777]

I'm not blaming anyone here, just making some constructive criticism. If you value the opinion of others on a matter you should incluse all important info in the initial question. You shouldn't expect people to sift through the rest of the thread looking for extra information. I didn't 'break into the middle' btw, but responded to that initial question. My (rhetorical) question to you is: do you always take things people say WAY out of proportion, because it sure looks like it.

Anyway: there's nothing in the Bible about how hermaphrodites should dress, so I guess they can wear whatever they like. However, life's all about making choices, so I would suggest that they stick to one of the two genders.

Let's not OVERcomplicate things. now, shall we?

didymos,

The problem is that you JUDGED Aerin WITHOUT knowing all the facts. (And you did not ASK Aerin if there was something more to it) This is your first post to Aerin

EVERYthing in the Bible suddenly seems to be 'culturally determined' when its message doesn't suit people. You'll always find some exegesis that justifies your (unbiblical) habits/preferences. To me that seems like picking and choosing from scripture. The principle should always be to take God's word seriously, all other paths lead to sin. I'm not into throwing stones (hey, we're all sinners) but your sin is all to clear Aerin.

That IS the point I am trying to get to.

 

[SarahM777]

Aerin, this i don't get. why does a man who is not gay want to dress and look like a woman? or are you gay? i don't understand this. it's just wrong in every way. like, whatever you do in your own home is your business but why do you want to dress like a woman when people clearly know you're a man?

dude, it's wrong.

Did you read the whole thread or just the first post? Were you aware that there is a physical issue with this also? If you read the whole you would have seen that.

 

[didymos]

didymos,

The problem is that you JUDGED Aerin WITHOUT knowing all the facts. (And you did not ASK Aerin if there was something more to it) This is your first post to Aerin



That IS the point I am trying to get to.

And MY point (for the 3d time) is that he should have mentioned the relevant facts in his first post,
that's how you set up a thread. You obviously don't get that, so whatever.

 

[SarahM777]

And MY point (for the 3d time) is that he should have mentioned the relevant facts in his first post,
that's how you set up a thread. You obviously don't get that, so whatever.

No you are still not getting my point. You are passing the buck and using it as a get out of jail card because YOU DO NOT want to take responsibility for JUDGING Aerin. It is the very same thing Adam and Eve did. "It's NOT MY FAULT" It's the OTHER persons fault. Part of becoming a MATURE Christian is when we STOP blaming someone else for OUR OWN sins. And what is at the heart matter is that you used UNRIGHTEOUS JUDGEMENT.

 

[SarahM777]

And to take it a bit further,when we don't take responsibility for our ACTIONS,there are CONSEQUENCES,don't take responsibility within a marriage and see what happens. Does it not damage a relationship? Doesn't that type of stuff cause divisions,strife,bitterness and a whole of other things,when we do not own up to the things we do? The onus is ALWAYS on us,NOT the other person.

 

[know1]

If the privates parts are wrong,then why is it wrong for someone to have a doctor do that,but it's OK for other birth defects to be corrected by a doctors hand if God so leads?

disregard.

 

[Polperro]

I found an excellent article online that suggests God is both male & female, in Him is the fullness of both(taken from the book of Genesis) [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]So it should not be surprising to realize that we as humans all possess maleness and femaleness within us.So to sum up:- [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It is clearly obvious. If someone is a Christian and is also a cross dresser they are simply that - a Cross Dresser that is also a Christian. There should be no guilt or condemnation associated with that. And, in fact, with a better understanding of what the Bible is truly saying within the context in which it was written, other Christians need to take positive steps to bring cross dressing Christians into the fold of the church. We are not to judge one another. We are not to condemn one another. We are told, no we are commanded, to LOVE one another.[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength; this is the first commandment. And second is this: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other commandment greater than these." Mark 12:30-31.

Therefore i'm not ashamed of being a cross-dressing Christian
[/FONT]

 

[Grandpa]

Thank you Lord Jesus, for drawing a sinner like me to you. For giving me Mercy and Grace and helping me to overcome.

For giving me wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of You.

Thank you for providing for me and my family Lord and for continually drawing us toward you, even though we don't do anything to merit it or deserve it.

Thank You Lord.

 

[notuptome]

I found an excellent article online that suggests God is both male & female, in Him is the fullness of both(taken from the book of Genesis) So it should not be surprising to realize that we as humans all possess maleness and femaleness within us.So to sum up:- It is clearly obvious. If someone is a Christian and is also a cross dresser they are simply that - a Cross Dresser that is also a Christian. There should be no guilt or condemnation associated with that. And, in fact, with a better understanding of what the Bible is truly saying within the context in which it was written, other Christians need to take positive steps to bring cross dressing Christians into the fold of the church. We are not to judge one another. We are not to condemn one another. We are told, no we are commanded, to LOVE one another. "And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength; this is the first commandment. And second is this: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other commandment greater than these." Mark 12:30-31.

Therefore i'm not ashamed of being a cross-dressing Christian

De 22:5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

Seems God has a different opinion on the matter. Better run your idea past Him before you set your course in life.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Polperro]

that particular passage is irrelevant with regards to being a Christian cross-dresser based on the following from the same article:-
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Verse[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There are many cross dressers who are good, strong, upstanding Christians who are also perplexed by the one and only reference in the Bible to wearing clothes of the opposite sex. This one scripture is Deuteronomy 22:5, "A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man; nor shall a man put on a woman's garment, for all who do so are an abomination to the Lord your God."[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Let's take a look at this scripture passage so that we can understand it within the context with which it was written. At this particular time in the history of Israel during the Mosaic covenant, some pagans were involved in idolatrous worship, or the worship of idols, where they put their idol in the place of God. Men wore the colorful dress of women while they presented themselves before the Star of Venus, and women wore men's armor when presenting themselves before the Star of Mars. So, with an understanding of what this passage is referring to it is clear that the cross dressing to which it refers pertains to the worshipping of idols and the practice of how it was being done in that day.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Chapte[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]r[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Deuteronomy 22 contains a myriad of various, unrelated laws with which the Israelites were to comply.
Two other verses in the same chapter are related to clothing:
Verse 11: "Don't wear clothing woven from two kinds of thread: for instance, wool and linen together."
Why isn't there a great disturbance about wearing shirts and blouses made of polyester and cotton?

Verse 12: "You must sew tassels on the four corners of your cloaks."
Wearing tassels today is more likely to be associated with a strip show than to be following God's Word. Why doesn't anyone mention these verses?[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Some other verses are quite interesting:
Verse 22: "If a man be found lying with a woman married to a husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lie with the woman and the woman: so shall you put away evil from Israel."
If we brand and punitively judge a crossdresser aren't we similarly required to put adulterers to death?

Verses 28 and 29: "If a man finds a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver and she shall be his wife; because he has humbled her, he may not put her away all his days."
Are we to force every man who has seduced a virgin to pay a dowry, marry her and prohibit a divorce for his lifetime?

Verse 8: "When you build your house your roof must have a parapet (a fortification, a defensive wall or elevation, any low protective wall or barrier at the edge) to prevent guilt if someone falls from it."
How many of us are guilty of not conforming to this particular building code? What do you think someone would say if you had a builder tell you that this was required on your home in order to comply with Deuteronomy 22:8?

Verse 9: "You shall not sow your vineyard with different kinds of seed, lest the yield of the seed which you have sown and the fruit of your vineyard be defiled."
How many farmers have used hybridization and cross pollination to create variegated varieties of plants and produce that is more hearty and more productive than before? Why are we not condemning this practice?[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]As you can see, if verse 5 is taken literally then we must also take the rest of the chapter literally as well. When viewing the Chapter as a whole one can readily see that these miscellaneous laws must be understood within the context of the culture and practices of that particular time period.

Therefore notuptome by slating my choices you yourself are a hypocrite because you clearly didn't readthe bit from the Goospel of Mark at the end of my original post
[/FONT]

 

[kaylagrl]

that particular passage is irrelevant with regards to being a Christian cross-dresser based on the following from the same article:-
The Verse
There are many cross dressers who are good, strong, upstanding Christians who are also perplexed by the one and only reference in the Bible to wearing clothes of the opposite sex. This one scripture is Deuteronomy 22:5, "A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man; nor shall a man put on a woman's garment, for all who do so are an abomination to the Lord your God."
Let's take a look at this scripture passage so that we can understand it within the context with which it was written. At this particular time in the history of Israel during the Mosaic covenant, some pagans were involved in idolatrous worship, or the worship of idols, where they put their idol in the place of God. Men wore the colorful dress of women while they presented themselves before the Star of Venus, and women wore men's armor when presenting themselves before the Star of Mars. So, with an understanding of what this passage is referring to it is clear that the cross dressing to which it refers pertains to the worshipping of idols and the practice of how it was being done in that day.

The Chapter
Deuteronomy 22 contains a myriad of various, unrelated laws with which the Israelites were to comply.
Two other verses in the same chapter are related to clothing:
Verse 11: "Don't wear clothing woven from two kinds of thread: for instance, wool and linen together."
Why isn't there a great disturbance about wearing shirts and blouses made of polyester and cotton?

Verse 12: "You must sew tassels on the four corners of your cloaks."
Wearing tassels today is more likely to be associated with a strip show than to be following God's Word. Why doesn't anyone mention these verses?
Some other verses are quite interesting:
Verse 22: "If a man be found lying with a woman married to a husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lie with the woman and the woman: so shall you put away evil from Israel."
If we brand and punitively judge a crossdresser aren't we similarly required to put adulterers to death?

Verses 28 and 29: "If a man finds a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver and she shall be his wife; because he has humbled her, he may not put her away all his days."
Are we to force every man who has seduced a virgin to pay a dowry, marry her and prohibit a divorce for his lifetime?

Verse 8: "When you build your house your roof must have a parapet (a fortification, a defensive wall or elevation, any low protective wall or barrier at the edge) to prevent guilt if someone falls from it."
How many of us are guilty of not conforming to this particular building code? What do you think someone would say if you had a builder tell you that this was required on your home in order to comply with Deuteronomy 22:8?

Verse 9: "You shall not sow your vineyard with different kinds of seed, lest the yield of the seed which you have sown and the fruit of your vineyard be defiled."
How many farmers have used hybridization and cross pollination to create variegated varieties of plants and produce that is more hearty and more productive than before? Why are we not condemning this practice?
As you can see, if verse 5 is taken literally then we must also take the rest of the chapter literally as well. When viewing the Chapter as a whole one can readily see that these miscellaneous laws must be understood within the context of the culture and practices of that particular time period.

Therefore notuptome by slating my choices you yourself are a hypocrite because you clearly didn't readthe bit from the Goospel of Mark at the end of my original post

So folks before I answer Polperro are we treating them as a troll, or we ministering to them? Im afraid to answer anymore since everyone dogpiles on whoever gives a response. So how are we answering this post?

 

[Polperro]

I aint no troll, i'm a Christian cross-dresser who has accepted Jesus Christ as his Lord & Saviour & i'm loving it! And i couldn't give a monkeys what people think because the bible teaches me to be the better person, i'm growing in faith da by day & the article i have read only backs up what i have believed all along!

 

[notuptome]

I aint no troll, i'm a Christian cross-dresser who has accepted Jesus Christ as his Lord & Saviour & i'm loving it! And i couldn't give a monkeys what people think because the bible teaches me to be the better person, i'm growing in faith da by day & the article i have read only backs up what i have believed all along!

Well bully for you.

Do you think Jesus is pleased with your sin? If you go against scripture you are transgressing Gods word.

Monkeys or not we are to obey Gods word.

Does Jesus deserve submission or rebellion?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Polperro]

I satnd by my comments & the link to the article si here:-

Cross Dressing and the Bible

 

[notuptome]

I satnd by my comments & the link to the article si here:-

Cross Dressing and the Bible

I'll stand on the word of God. Sin has not changed and will not change. Sin will be destroyed and those who cleave unto it will be destroyed with it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Polperro]

I will also stand on the word of god & in my opinion my friend you're an old fashioned traditionalist whose main role in life is to hold the modern church back but you traditionalists will not succed!

 

[kaylagrl]

I aint no troll, i'm a Christian cross-dresser who has accepted Jesus Christ as his Lord & Saviour & i'm loving it! And i couldn't give a monkeys what people this link because the bible teaches me to be the better person, i'm growing in faith da by day & the article i have read only backs up what i have believed all along!

Well
I wasn't really saying you are a troll. But you must know that most Christians do not agree with cross dressing and will therefore tell you the Bible disagrees with it. But others will disagree and before long we will have a knock down drag em out fight. Now Im going to go on record as saying that I disagree with cross dressing as the Lord made male and female in the garden,very distinct genders. Now you say you are a Christian,and if that is the case this is between you and the Lord. And you better be good and sure that you are in line with the Lords will.Personally, I dont see that God is the author of confusion and think you need to sincerely seek God and His will,not your own. Blessings