Does water baptism save us

[SeaBass]

[SUP]38[/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Baptize mean immerse.

Brother can you show me where the word water in this verse.

It say be baptize in the name of Jesus.

Mean be immerse in Jesus. Yes it is the requirement of salvation to immerse in Jesus.

Not on water.

--this is the baptism of Christ's great commission, Lk 24:47 Mt 28:19,20 that had disciples/humans administering water baptism

--this baptism is commanded. Commands can be obeyed. Baptism with the Holy Spirit was a promise which cannot be obeyed. Baptism with the HS was a promise to the apostles, not anyone today.

--the baptism of Acts 2:38 is in the name of the Lord as is the water baptism Peter commanded in Acts 10:47,48 is in the name of the Lord. Both are Christ's water baptism of the great commission.

--Acts 15:11 Jew and Gentile are saved in one "like manner" way by being water baptized, Acts 2:38 & Acts 10:47,48

--baptizo of Acts 2:38 and Eph 4:5 means immersion, a literal immersion in water and is not being used figuratively.

 

[saved1975]

Water baptism was the one like manner way Jews and Gentiles are saved: the Jews Acts 2; the eunuch, Simon, Samaritans Acts 8; Saul Acts 9/22, Gentiles Acts 10; Lydia, jailer Acts 16, Corinthians Acts 18.


Water baptism is for the remission of sins Acts 2:38. Since no one will be saved in his unremitted sins, then no one can be saved until they are water baptized.

This is the way the people in Acts 2: 38 would have heard and understood Peter.
"Repent for the remission of sins, Then you can be baptised",

In the Greek there are subjects, verbs, persons and numbers, And they all have to agree in order to build a doctrine.
Your not believing it, Doesn't change the truth.

Repent ye, "Ye" is the subject and "Repent" is the verb, They are both 2nd person and plural in number.
Whereas,
Be baptised everyone of you. "You" is the subject and "Be baptised" is the verb, They are both 3rd person and singular in number.
So you can see that be baptised doesn't agree with repent ye.

Ye shall receive the gift of The Holy Ghost.
"Ye" is the subject, and "Receive the Holy Ghost" is the verb, They are both 2nd person and plural in number.
Which agree with "Repent ye".

It's the "REPENTING" that remits sins and gives us the Holy Ghost, NOT BAPTISM. As the Bible proves.

 

[SeaBass]

What does this mean?

James 5:19-20

King James Version (KJV)

19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

no baptism here.

James is referring to Christians, those ALREADY baptized.

 

[SeaBass]

Baptism for salvation is NOT taught in the Bible.

Mk 16:16
Jn 3:5
Acts 2:38
Col 2:12-14
Gal 3:27
Rom 6:3-5
1 Pet 3:21
Tts 3:5
Eph 5:26
1 Cor 12:13

 

[saved1975]

Prove this, or retract, you keep saying the Greek says this and that, you don't know Greek, I have asked you this how many times now, show "with the Greek" that your statement to be true that "it's the REPENTING that remits sins, Not baptism",

Show us this IN THE GREEK, if you cannot, you should quit listening to what ever website your getting this from until you can prove it true, you like so many others appeal to the Greek not for better understanding as it can and should be, but to twist the English in attempt to make your man made doctrine appear to be true since many people (like you) don't know Greek.

I have shown you what the Greek says.
All you have to do is, check it up on the internet.

But you don't even have to do that, Just read the New Testament, And you will see that water baptism doesn't save.

 

[SeaBass]

Well the Holy Spirit is promised to all who receive Christ not exclusively to the apostles. I can see why you are confused. In John 3:5 we find Jesus explaining to Nicodemus what the question was in verse 4 when Nicodemus asked how he could re-enter his mothers womb and be re-born. Jesus says that it is necessary to be born of water from his mothers womb and then to be born of the Spirit in the new birth

The promise of the Holy Spirit was first to the apostles then to all flesh which you can read in Joel 2. The presence of the Holy Spirit in new Christians is throughout Acts and they were not apostles. So you do not have Acts 1:1-5 in biblical context. The eunuch in Acts was first saved, baptized in the Holy Spirit then baptized in water by Philip. So that is self defeating to your argument.

Well they all have the English word baptize in them but they none of them actually speak of water. The water is clearly forced into these verses by a predetermined false doctrinal position.

It is indeed difficult to prove things that are obviously false.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Acts 1:1-5 Jesus was with His apostles promising the baptism with the Holy Ghost. Jesus promised this bapism to no one else.

Jn 3:5 actually uses the word "water", it refers to literal water.

Water = baptized = washing of regeneration

 

[SeaBass]

So y'all are willing to go so far to say that the cross of Christ is not enough to save a person?

For the umpteenth time, Christ died for EVERY MAN, Heb 2:9

Wll every man be saved? No, Mt 7:13

If Christ died for every man then why will every man not be saved? For every man will not take advantage of what Christ did for him on His cross by obeying Christ, Heb 5:9 in believing, repenting confessing be baptized.....why call ye Me Lord, Lord and DO NOT the things which I say?

 

[SeaBass]

Why don't we just spit on the cross and call it worthless.

THose that do not obey Christ are "spitting" on the cross and not taking advantage of what Christ did for them.

 

[saved1975]

Mk 16:16
Jn 3:5
Acts 2:38
Col 2:12-14
Gal 3:27
Rom 6:3-5
1 Pet 3:21
Tts 3:5
Eph 5:26
1 Cor 12:13

Jn 3:5,
Titus 3: 5 and Eph 5: 26, Have nothing to do with water baptism.
As for the rest, I have shown you that water baptism doesn't save.
Water baptism is an outward sign, [Testimony] of an ALREADY inward experience.

 

[SeaBass]

I addressed this argument in post #507. Did you ever read it?

In Acts 11, Peter is explaining the events that took place in chapter 10. If you would finish reading through verse 17, you would see they received the Holy Spirit WHEN they BELIEVED ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, not before they heard nothing at all. *Compare this with Acts 16:31, "BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AND YOU WILL BE SAVED." Acts 10:44 says, "THE HOLY SPIRIT CAME ON ALL WHO HEARD THE MESSAGE," not on all who heard nothing.

Acts 10:44 - While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. "Began to speak" (Acts 11:15) and "still speaking" (Acts 10:44) are not in contradiction. Acts 10:44 says, while he was "still speaking," which means, he already started talking and said, "WHOSOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM SHALL RECEIVE REMISSION OF SINS" (Acts 10:43). So obviously, began to speak can't mean, said nothing at all yet, because that would contradict, "still speaking." There is a difference between "as" I began to speak and "before" I began to speak.

Acts 11:4 "But Peter rehearsed the matter from the beginning, and expounded it BY ORDER unto them, saying,"

Acts 11:14,15 "Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning."


The Gentiles would be saved by WORDS Peter would speak and Peter just began to speak those saving words.


Acts 10:44 "While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.'

"WHILE" can mean at the beginning of speaking, in the middle of speaking or near the end of speaking. This verse in Acts 10 does not tell us, but Acts 11:4,14,15 tells us 'while' means at the beginning.

 

[SeaBass]

Acts 15: 7--9 Doesn't mention water baptism at all, Proving that it doesn't save.

You had no right to be baptised, Because you weren't saved.

Acts 15:7-9 does not mention grace or the blood of Christ either.

 

[SeaBass]

Water baptism doesn't remit sins, And it doesn't save, If you think you were saved through water baptism, Then your not saved, That could be the reason that you can't understand the truth.

I have shown you from the Bible and the Greek, That water baptism doesn't save.

Acts 2:38 refutes your position by saying baptism is for the remission of sins.

 

[SeaBass]

This is the way the people in Acts 2: 38 would have heard and understood Peter.
"Repent for the remission of sins, Then you can be baptised",

In the Greek there are subjects, verbs, persons and numbers, And they all have to agree in order to build a doctrine.
Your not believing it, Doesn't change the truth.

Repent ye, "Ye" is the subject and "Repent" is the verb, They are both 2nd person and plural in number.
Whereas,
Be baptised everyone of you. "You" is the subject and "Be baptised" is the verb, They are both 3rd person and singular in number.
So you can see that be baptised doesn't agree with repent ye.

Ye shall receive the gift of The Holy Ghost.
"Ye" is the subject, and "Receive the Holy Ghost" is the verb, They are both 2nd person and plural in number.
Which agree with "Repent ye".

It's the "REPENTING" that remits sins and gives us the Holy Ghost, NOT BAPTISM. As the Bible proves.

You do not want to understand the the plurality of repent and baptize does nothing to help your false position.

You all repent and each one of you be baptized....Peter was speaking to the SAME people when he said repent and be baptized. He did not tell one groups to repent and another to be baptized. It would be no different if a literature teacher told her class "You all go to the library and each one of you write a report" She is speaking to the same class, same students and her language requires the whole class go to the library and write a report, the language leaves NO ONE of the class out from going to the library and writing a report.

All arguments against the necessity of water baptism are lame but this is one if the more lamest.

 

[jag1977]

This is the way the people in Acts 2: 38 would have heard and understood Peter.
"Repent for the remission of sins, Then you can be baptised",

In the Greek there are subjects, verbs, persons and numbers, And they all have to agree in order to build a doctrine.
Your not believing it, Doesn't change the truth.

Repent ye, "Ye" is the subject and "Repent" is the verb, They are both 2nd person and plural in number.
Whereas,
Be baptised everyone of you. "You" is the subject and "Be baptised" is the verb, They are both 3rd person and singular in number.
So you can see that be baptised doesn't agree with repent ye.

Ye shall receive the gift of The Holy Ghost.
"Ye" is the subject, and "Receive the Holy Ghost" is the verb, They are both 2nd person and plural in number.
Which agree with "Repent ye".

It's the "REPENTING" that remits sins and gives us the Holy Ghost, NOT BAPTISM. As the Bible proves.

Such an interesting concept. You passed English.

 

[mailmandan]

"WHILE" can mean at the beginning of speaking, in the middle of speaking or near the end of speaking. This verse in Acts 10 does not tell us, but Acts 11:4,14,15 tells us 'while' means at the beginning.

So faith and receiving the Holy Spirit comes by hearing nothing at all? Is that what we learn in Romans 10:17 and Ephesians 1:13?

Acts 10:44 - says the Holy Spirit fell upon them.
Acts 10:45 - says gift of the Holy Spirit/compare with Acts 2:38 - receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 10:47 - says they received the Holy Spirit.
Acts 11:17 - says God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ.
15:8-9 - says God acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, purifying their hearts by faith.

Yet they heard nothing at all because Peter had just begun to speak but no words actually came out of his moth yet when they believed and received the Holy Spirit? Absolutely not. Acts 11:4,14,15 does not support your argument.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Baptism with the HS was a promise to the apostles, not anyone today.

While the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was a promise first given primarily to the apostles by the Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:16, 26; 15:26; 16:7).


The promise of the Holy Spirit is also today for anyone who gets saved (1 Cor. 12:13; Gal. 3:14; Eph. 1:13).

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Acts 2:38 refutes your position by saying baptism is for the remission of sins.

Acts 2:38 shows that water baptism was for the remission of sins for the Nation of Israel. Israel as a Nation has always had a Faith and Works system for salvation.

Water baptism does not remit anyone's sins today in this dispensation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

brother In my understanding, we interpret bible use other verse.

In the verse bellow said the requirement of salvation is just call His name.

Of course it mean invite Jesus to the heart. It not even mention water baptism. Yes after Jesus in his heart then as a fruit of salvation he will testified in the church in form of water baptism.



Roman 10:13


For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.



Let Make simple test.

Jesus said if the branch abide to the vine, it will bear fruit.

John 15:
[SUP]3[/SUP] Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
[SUP]4[/SUP] Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]5[/SUP] I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
[SUP]6[/SUP] If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

In order to bear fruit, one must abide/invite/ immerse in Jesus then he save.
> He save because immerse in Jesus.

Then as a product of salvation he bear the fruit.

1.> how do you know you are save? by examine you fruit. Do you have love, joy etc (gal 5). If he was a rapist now a lover.

2. Let assume water baptism save us.
Then we examine the fact. I life in the small town where only few hundred resident and it is in the border.
I know a people that had been baptize from all kind of religious back ground and doing drug dealer.

Let me remind you one more time. The fruit of salvation is (gal 5).
Mr x had been water baptized.

Mr X is drug dealer.

Is this prove that water baptism save
It mean every body who went to water baptism produce the fruit?

Baptize/immerse in Jesus yes it will save us and produce fruit.

Not sure what your trying to say here.

Again He commanded everyone repent for the gift of the spirit. And only commanded certain individuals to be baptized for they had recieved remmision of sin.

The baptism was not to goet saved, it was because they already were saved, this is how the greek is worded.

 

[mailmandan]

Jn 3:5,
Titus 3: 5 and Eph 5: 26, Have nothing to do with water baptism.
As for the rest, I have shown you that water baptism doesn't save.
Water baptism is an outward sign, [Testimony] of an ALREADY inward experience.

Some people would walk around mountains of grace in order to find water.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Do you understand that BAPTISM points to the CROSS? God has chosen to use baptism as the means by which we are BURIED with Christ and raised to new life.

No Sarah this is not true. Baptism of water is not the means by which we are BURIED with Christ. it is baptism of the HS, or the spiritual baptism performed by God by which this occurs.

It is THROUGH baptism that we are cleansed by the washing of the water through the word.

Again, No this is not true, this is adding works to the gospel of Christ. Jesus said we are clean by the words he spoke to us, and our faith in those words. Not through some ceremonial ritual of water baptism.

Those things are a working of the Holy Spirit NOT man.

Now this is true. and not only this, but

1. It occurs at the moment one calls on the name of the lord to be saved, NOT when they allow themsleves to be baptized in water
2. It is a work of god. ot a work of man
3. Those who are baptised in water do so because these events have already occured in their lives, otherwise, water baptism has no meaning or any power.

No matter how much one wants to slice and dice it,even you stated that the water showed that Jesus had died,that water was part of His death. And yet people want to remove that very fact,and say that the Bible is speaking of baptism of the Holy Spirit in those passages. How can one NOT get the connection between the water of baptism and the cross,especially when the bible says over and over again that we are BURIED WITH CHRIST IN BAPTISM? How can anyone say that baptism is NOT POINTING TO THE CROSS?

Because I was buried with Christ in baptism. Not water baptism HS baptism Water has no power to totally immerse (baptise) me in the death of Christ, Only God does.

The problem is that the church has taken a word not even native to the english language (Baptism) and made a religious ceremony out of it, And reject the interpretation of the word in which it came from completely out. It is an action verb, of something happening. When God says we were baptized into his death, The action verb baptize is something which literally occures. Water is not the subject, the death is. God is the one who does it.