So according to you, what Robertson says is opinion yet what the church fathers say is inspired? Not so. Their writings are not infallible. Once again, the word "washing" in the Strong's Greek Concordance with Vine's Number 3067 - (Loutron) "a bath, a laver" is used metaphorically of the Word of God, as the instrument of spiritual cleansing, Ephesians 5:26; and Titus 3:5, of the "washing of regeneration." The word "regeneration" is from the Greek word palingenesia, which is taken from two root words "born" and "again." Notice that Ephesians 5:26 says washing of water by the word. Jesus equates living water with everlasting life (John 4:10,14; 7:37-39). Jesus said drink of the water that He shall give us, Paul said drink into one Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:13). So plain ordinary H20 has no power to regenerate man. So Paul is not teaching the Roman Catholic heresy of baptismal regeneration in Titus 3:5 but is referring to spiritual washing/living water/purification of the soul, accomplished by the Holy Spirit through the Word of God at the moment of salvation (John 3:5; Ephesians 5:26; 1 Peter 1:23). You continue to confuse the picture with the reality. A symbol is not the reality, but the picture of the reality.
There’s nothing in the text that requires a metaphorical interpretation. Therefore to do so imo is eisegesis. If you look at Ephesians 5:26 you’ll see that your interpretation doesn’t fit the text. The “word” in that passage is the Greek word “rhema” is means a spoken word or command. It’s not talking about the “word of God”, it’s talking about a command that was given. What command was given that pertains to the “Bath of water”?
[SUP]19[/SUP] "Go therefore[SUP]1 [/SUP]and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (Mat 28:19 NKJ)
It was Paul who wrote the letter to Titus and we can see from Paul's letter to the Philippians that he considered "works of righteousness" as keeping the law.
So baptism is not a work of righteousness but a work of unrighteousness? Matthew 3:13 - Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. 14 And John tried to prevent Him, saying, "I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?" 15 But Jesus answered and said to him, "Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he allowed Him. Water baptism was a part of Jesus fulfilling all righteousness, so it is clearly a work of righteousness. Works of righteousness are not limited to specific works that are detached from the moral aspect of the Law.
[SUP]7[/SUP] For a bishop[SUP]1 [/SUP]must be blameless, as a steward of God, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money,
[SUP]8[/SUP] but hospitable, a lover of what is good, sober-minded, just, holy, self-controlled,
[SUP]9[/SUP] holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict.
[SUP]10[/SUP] For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision,
[SUP]11[/SUP] whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole households, teaching things which they ought not, for the sake of dishonest gain.
[SUP]12[/SUP] One of them, a prophet of their own, said, "Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons."
[SUP]13[/SUP] This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, [SUP]14[/SUP] not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth. (Tit 1:7-14 NKJ)
Note Paul’s words they subvert whole households. Look at Luke’s statement in Acts 15.
[SUP]NKJ [/SUP]Acts 15:1 And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved." (Act 15:1 NKJ)
[SUP]5[/SUP] But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses." (Act 15:5 NKJ)
James acknowledges that these people were causing problems among the Gentiles
[SUP]23[/SUP] They wrote this letter by them: The apostles, the elders, and the brethren, To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: Greetings.
[SUP]24[/SUP] Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "You must be circumcised and keep the law[SUP]1 [/SUP]"-- to whom we gave no such commandment--
[SUP]25[/SUP] it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
(Act 15:23-25 NKJ)
This is the issue that Paul is addressing when speaking of works that don’t save.
We could establish our own righteousness if we perfectly kept the Law but this is impossible because we have all broken the Law. So the alternative is the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ, not through water baptism or any other works of righteousness.
Where does Paul say that we are "saved by works" of any kind? Did Paul say saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8,9 or saved through faith, not works? In 2 Timothy 1:9, Paul said that He saved us and called us, not according to our works.. I'm not seeing a specific category distinction for works that save and works that don't save. Good works in general which follow faith in Christ do not save. [/quopte]
No one is arguing that anyone is saved by works. The works argument is a false dichotomy. The law was given to the Jews, not the Gentiles. However, the Jews believed that the inheritance came through the Law and some suggested that the Gentiles would need to keep the Law in order to partake of the inheritance. Paul argues against this idea. When he says it’s by faith and not by works he is arguing that it isn’t necessary for the Gentiles to keep the Law.
I’m not sure what your point is here.
I find it interesting that you dismiss the ECF’s on baptismal regeneration yet post them in an attempt to prove faith alone. Once again the argument is a straw man, no one is claiming that anyone is saved by works. And none of the passages you posted said that Baptism isn’t required. It’s the same argument from silence, pick a few verses of Scripture that speak of salvation but don’t mention baptism and say see, nothing about baptism so that means baptism isn’t necessary only this time it’s the ECF’s The bottom line that it’s an argument from silence which is a logical fallacy.
The Scriptures are the ultimate authority however, many don’t understand them because they try to impose a 21 century American mindset on a 1 century eastern book. Then there are who don’t use proper methods of reasoning and wind up in error.
We can go to the Scriptures.
[SUP]5[/SUP] So also Christ did not glorify Himself to become High Priest, but it was He who said to Him: "You are My Son, Today I have begotten You[SUP]1[/SUP]."
[SUP]6[/SUP] As He also says in another place: "You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek[SUP]1[/SUP]";
[SUP]7[/SUP] who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear,
[SUP]8[/SUP] though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.
[SUP]9[/SUP] And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
[SUP]10[/SUP] called by God as High Priest "according to the order of Melchizedek,"
(Heb 5:5-10 NKJ)
Here the Scriptures refute the faith alone doctrine as it’s understood in modern American. Obedience requires action, action is something one does thus it is work.
No one is arguing that anyone is saved by works. The works argument is a false dichotomy. The law was given to the Jews, not the Gentiles. However, the Jews believed that the inheritance came through the Law and some suggested that the Gentiles would need to keep the Law in order to partake of the inheritance. Paul argues against this idea. When he says it’s by faith and not by works he is arguing that it isn’t necessary for the Gentiles to keep the Law.
In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "good work/work of righteousness" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the Law of Moses (Leviticus 19:18).
In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. Please tell me, which good works could a Christian accomplish that are completely detached from these two great commandments which are found in the Law of Moses? (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18). Are there any genuine good works that Christians do which fall outside of loving God and our neighbor as ourself?
In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. Please tell me, which good works could a Christian accomplish that are completely detached from these two great commandments which are found in the Law of Moses? (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18). Are there any genuine good works that Christians do which fall outside of loving God and our neighbor as ourself?
I guess that settles the question for Roman Catholics, who are amazed that Evangelical Christians have the audacity to disagree with the fathers on this matter. It may come as a surprise that Catholics too do not follow the practice of the early church in the administration of this sacrament. For example it was common practice that the candidate was immersed three times, whereas the modern Catholic rite consists of pouring water on the head. Before baptism, the candidate was anointed with "oil of exorcism" while the presbyter prayed, "Let all spirits flee far away from you." Apart from the fact that there is no scriptural warrant for this anointing, they were also mistaken in their belief that this oil served for the remission of sins even before baptism:
Now this is blessed by the high priest for the remission of sins, and the first preparation for baptism. For he calls thus upon the unbegotten God, the Father of Christ, the King of all sensible and intelligible natures, that He would sanctify the oil in the name of the Lord Jesus, and impart to it spiritual grace and efficacious strength, the remission of sins, and the first preparation for the confession of baptism, that so the candidate for baptism, when he is anointed may be freed from all ungodliness, and may become worthy of initiation, according to the command of the Only-begotten (Apostolic Constitutions, XLII)
During baptism, the candidates had to remove their clothing and stand naked in the water. The newly baptized was not allowed to take a bath for a whole week. We do not feel obliged to follow the fathers in their unscriptural inventions, changing the simple ordinance of Christ into a superstition, not to mention their disregard for public decency. (See Tertullian, The Crown; St Hippolytus of Rome, The Apostolic Tradition). These are the same people who insisted on baptismal regeneration.
The church fathers were not infallible and at times contradicted each another, so we must look for a surer foundation for our faith. The ultimate criterion is the Word of God. Even in apostolic times, errors quickly spread among churches. Let's see if the church fathers said anything about salvation through faith in Christ alone.
Clement of Rome: "We also, being called through God's will in Christ Jesus, are not justified through ourselves, neither through our own wisdom or understanding, or piety, or works which we have done in holiness or heart, but through faith" (Epistle to Corinthians).
Ignatius: "His cross, and his death, and his resurrection, and the faith which is through him, are my unpolluted muniments; and in these, through your prayers, I am willing to be justified (Epistle to Philadelphians). Note: "muniments" are title deeds, documents giving evidence of legal ownership of something.
Polycarp: "I know that through grace you are saved, not of works, but by the will of God, through Jesus Christ (Epistle of Philippians).
Justin Martyr: "No longer by the blood of goats and of sheep, or by the ashes of a heifer...are sins purged, but by faith, through the blood of Christ and his death, who died on this very account (Dialogue with Trypho). "God gave his own Son the ransom for us...for what, save his righteousness, could cover our sins. In whom was it possible that we, transgressors and ungodly as we were, could be justified, save in the Son of God alone? ...O unexpected benefit, that the transgression of many should be hidden in one righteous Person and that the righteousness of One should justify many transgressors" (Letter to Diognetus).
Ireneus: "Through the obedience of one man who first was born from the Virgin, many should be justified and receive salvation."
Athanasius: "Not by these (i.e. human efforts) but by faith, a man is justified as was Abraham."
Basil: "This is the true and perfect glorying in God, when a man is not lifted up on account of his own righteousness, but has known himself to be wanting in true righteousness and to be justified by faith alone in Christ."
Ambrose: "Without the works of the law, to an ungodly man, that is to say, a Gentile, believing in Christ, his "faith is imputed for righteousness" as also it was to Abraham."
Origen: "Through faith, without the works of the law, the dying thief was justified, because...the Lord inquired not what he had previously wrought, nor yet waited for his performance of some work after he should have believe; but...he took him unto himself for a companion, justified through his confession alone."
Jerome: "When an ungodly man is converted, God justified him through faith alone, not on account of good works which he possessed not."
Chrysostom: "What then did God do? He made (says Paul) a righteous Person (Christ) to be a sinner, in order that he might make sinners righteous... it is the righteousness of God, when we are justified, not by works...but by grace, where all sin is made to vanish away."
Chrysostom: "Again, they said that he who adhered to faith alone was cursed, but he shows that he who adhered to faith alone, is blessed."
Augustine: "Grace is give to you, not wages paid to you...it is called grace because it is given gratuitously. By no precedent merits did you buy what you have received. The sinner therefore received this grace first, that his sins should be forgiven him...good works follow after a justified person; they do not go before in order that he may be justified...good works, following after justification, show what a man has received."
Augustine: "Now, having duly considered and weighed all these circumstances and testimonies, we conclude that a man is not justified by the precepts of a holy life, but by faith in Jesus Christ,--in a word, not by the law of works, but by the law of faith; not by the letter, but by the spirit; not by the merits of deeds, but by free grace."
Anselm: "Do you believe that you cannot be saved but by the death of Christ? Go, then, and ...put all your confidence in this death alone. If God shall say to you, "You are a sinner", say to him, "I place the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between me and my sin.""
Bernard of Clairvaux: "Shall not all our righteousness turn out to be mere unrighteousness and deficiency? What, then, shall it be concerning our sins, when not even our righteousness can answer for itself? Wherefore...let us flee, with all humility to Mercy which alone can save our souls...whoever hungers and thirsts after righteousness, let him believe in thee, who "justified the ungodly"; and thus, being justified by faith alone, he shall have peace with God."
That does not sound like baptismal regeneration to me. I'm not hearing saved by works either.
Now this is blessed by the high priest for the remission of sins, and the first preparation for baptism. For he calls thus upon the unbegotten God, the Father of Christ, the King of all sensible and intelligible natures, that He would sanctify the oil in the name of the Lord Jesus, and impart to it spiritual grace and efficacious strength, the remission of sins, and the first preparation for the confession of baptism, that so the candidate for baptism, when he is anointed may be freed from all ungodliness, and may become worthy of initiation, according to the command of the Only-begotten (Apostolic Constitutions, XLII)
During baptism, the candidates had to remove their clothing and stand naked in the water. The newly baptized was not allowed to take a bath for a whole week. We do not feel obliged to follow the fathers in their unscriptural inventions, changing the simple ordinance of Christ into a superstition, not to mention their disregard for public decency. (See Tertullian, The Crown; St Hippolytus of Rome, The Apostolic Tradition). These are the same people who insisted on baptismal regeneration.
The church fathers were not infallible and at times contradicted each another, so we must look for a surer foundation for our faith. The ultimate criterion is the Word of God. Even in apostolic times, errors quickly spread among churches. Let's see if the church fathers said anything about salvation through faith in Christ alone.
Clement of Rome: "We also, being called through God's will in Christ Jesus, are not justified through ourselves, neither through our own wisdom or understanding, or piety, or works which we have done in holiness or heart, but through faith" (Epistle to Corinthians).
Ignatius: "His cross, and his death, and his resurrection, and the faith which is through him, are my unpolluted muniments; and in these, through your prayers, I am willing to be justified (Epistle to Philadelphians). Note: "muniments" are title deeds, documents giving evidence of legal ownership of something.
Polycarp: "I know that through grace you are saved, not of works, but by the will of God, through Jesus Christ (Epistle of Philippians).
Justin Martyr: "No longer by the blood of goats and of sheep, or by the ashes of a heifer...are sins purged, but by faith, through the blood of Christ and his death, who died on this very account (Dialogue with Trypho). "God gave his own Son the ransom for us...for what, save his righteousness, could cover our sins. In whom was it possible that we, transgressors and ungodly as we were, could be justified, save in the Son of God alone? ...O unexpected benefit, that the transgression of many should be hidden in one righteous Person and that the righteousness of One should justify many transgressors" (Letter to Diognetus).
Ireneus: "Through the obedience of one man who first was born from the Virgin, many should be justified and receive salvation."
Athanasius: "Not by these (i.e. human efforts) but by faith, a man is justified as was Abraham."
Basil: "This is the true and perfect glorying in God, when a man is not lifted up on account of his own righteousness, but has known himself to be wanting in true righteousness and to be justified by faith alone in Christ."
Ambrose: "Without the works of the law, to an ungodly man, that is to say, a Gentile, believing in Christ, his "faith is imputed for righteousness" as also it was to Abraham."
Origen: "Through faith, without the works of the law, the dying thief was justified, because...the Lord inquired not what he had previously wrought, nor yet waited for his performance of some work after he should have believe; but...he took him unto himself for a companion, justified through his confession alone."
Jerome: "When an ungodly man is converted, God justified him through faith alone, not on account of good works which he possessed not."
Chrysostom: "What then did God do? He made (says Paul) a righteous Person (Christ) to be a sinner, in order that he might make sinners righteous... it is the righteousness of God, when we are justified, not by works...but by grace, where all sin is made to vanish away."
Chrysostom: "Again, they said that he who adhered to faith alone was cursed, but he shows that he who adhered to faith alone, is blessed."
Augustine: "Grace is give to you, not wages paid to you...it is called grace because it is given gratuitously. By no precedent merits did you buy what you have received. The sinner therefore received this grace first, that his sins should be forgiven him...good works follow after a justified person; they do not go before in order that he may be justified...good works, following after justification, show what a man has received."
Augustine: "Now, having duly considered and weighed all these circumstances and testimonies, we conclude that a man is not justified by the precepts of a holy life, but by faith in Jesus Christ,--in a word, not by the law of works, but by the law of faith; not by the letter, but by the spirit; not by the merits of deeds, but by free grace."
Anselm: "Do you believe that you cannot be saved but by the death of Christ? Go, then, and ...put all your confidence in this death alone. If God shall say to you, "You are a sinner", say to him, "I place the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between me and my sin.""
Bernard of Clairvaux: "Shall not all our righteousness turn out to be mere unrighteousness and deficiency? What, then, shall it be concerning our sins, when not even our righteousness can answer for itself? Wherefore...let us flee, with all humility to Mercy which alone can save our souls...whoever hungers and thirsts after righteousness, let him believe in thee, who "justified the ungodly"; and thus, being justified by faith alone, he shall have peace with God."
That does not sound like baptismal regeneration to me. I'm not hearing saved by works either.
The Scriptures are the ultimate authority however, many don’t understand them because they try to impose a 21 century American mindset on a 1 century eastern book. Then there are who don’t use proper methods of reasoning and wind up in error.
We can go to the Scriptures.
[SUP]5[/SUP] So also Christ did not glorify Himself to become High Priest, but it was He who said to Him: "You are My Son, Today I have begotten You[SUP]1[/SUP]."
[SUP]6[/SUP] As He also says in another place: "You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek[SUP]1[/SUP]";
[SUP]7[/SUP] who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear,
[SUP]8[/SUP] though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.
[SUP]9[/SUP] And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
[SUP]10[/SUP] called by God as High Priest "according to the order of Melchizedek,"
(Heb 5:5-10 NKJ)
Here the Scriptures refute the faith alone doctrine as it’s understood in modern American. Obedience requires action, action is something one does thus it is work.