It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security
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You are not asked to prove a negative, unless you believe one! I challenge you if you deny my POV of scripture, that you bring any document which is commonly and readily available to man and prove it is God's Word. If something beside the Bible is Gods word, you should know what it is, if you believe such. So I put it to you that you must accept that the Bible is the only such document or prove that something else also is.
"My sheep hear My voice." that proves that the Sheep recognize the shepherd's voice. And obviously if they recognize it they will respond. There could be no issue of obeying God's word if it were obtuse.
" And he said unto them, O foolish men, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!
Psalm 119 has a long exposition on the Word of God -- never is the thought entertained that a believer in God could not understand His word.
I cannot be sure of this, but you know what I think Cassian, I don't think you ever read the Bible even once, yet you dare to state what the Bible does not say.
I have just shown you that it is found in scripture that the scripture is to be obeyed. It is theopneustos, God-breathed, and profitable for teaching to the man of God.
I have posted you scripture upon scripture on eternal security. You are responsible now for this knowledge.
You go on and on just saying things. Save yourself the effort. Either prove it from the Bible or realize it is regarded as hot air.
Utter nonsense. Many individual prophets received God's word, as for example John in Revelation, and Elijah in the wilderness.
You do go on, no Bible proof at all. Just you saying things. They are useless.
There is not any moral, external code of salvation>
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.
Referring to Ignatius proves nothing, and I know of no proof for your AD 60 theory.
You have been given abundant evidence for the doctrine of eternal security. You really don't believe in a Savior. And thus it would appear that you have no membership in the Body of Christ.
"My sheep hear My voice." that proves that the Sheep recognize the shepherd's voice. And obviously if they recognize it they will respond. There could be no issue of obeying God's word if it were obtuse.
" And he said unto them, O foolish men, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!
Psalm 119 has a long exposition on the Word of God -- never is the thought entertained that a believer in God could not understand His word.
I cannot be sure of this, but you know what I think Cassian, I don't think you ever read the Bible even once, yet you dare to state what the Bible does not say.
I have just shown you that it is found in scripture that the scripture is to be obeyed. It is theopneustos, God-breathed, and profitable for teaching to the man of God.
I have posted you scripture upon scripture on eternal security. You are responsible now for this knowledge.
You go on and on just saying things. Save yourself the effort. Either prove it from the Bible or realize it is regarded as hot air.
Utter nonsense. Many individual prophets received God's word, as for example John in Revelation, and Elijah in the wilderness.
You do go on, no Bible proof at all. Just you saying things. They are useless.
There is not any moral, external code of salvation>
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.
Referring to Ignatius proves nothing, and I know of no proof for your AD 60 theory.
You have been given abundant evidence for the doctrine of eternal security. You really don't believe in a Savior. And thus it would appear that you have no membership in the Body of Christ.
2
The Bible is our rule of faith
if 99.999 percent protestants disagree
it just shows they are wrong.
The Bible says what God wants it to say
whether one reads it or not.
or believes it or not
Bible says
get Baptizd or you have a non biblical religion.
I read the Bible that is what it says.
Doesnt matter what protestants think
if 99.999 percent protestants disagree
it just shows they are wrong.
The Bible says what God wants it to say
whether one reads it or not.
or believes it or not
Bible says
get Baptizd or you have a non biblical religion.
I read the Bible that is what it says.
Doesnt matter what protestants think
Last edited by a moderator:
It's a door prize.
Sorry, I joke.
But I do disagree, maybe not so much what I think you are trying to say, but with the way you say it?
OSAS is a dangerous teaching for the careless hearer. I know that there are many who don't read the bible, but listen to people, picking and choosing what "tickles their ears." Maybe it is true, but some carelessly suppose that they are saved, never checking scripture.
I do wonder how one can be severed from Jesus if they were never part of His body. I wonder how Peter stood condemned after being given the keys, being filled with the Holy Spirit, and writing scripture. I wonder how Jesus says that the one that puts his hand to the plow and looks back is not worthy of the kingdom of Heaven - However, I have also wondered why Jesus says this since none of us are worthy of the kingdom of Heaven.
Sorry, I joke.
But I do disagree, maybe not so much what I think you are trying to say, but with the way you say it?
OSAS is a dangerous teaching for the careless hearer. I know that there are many who don't read the bible, but listen to people, picking and choosing what "tickles their ears." Maybe it is true, but some carelessly suppose that they are saved, never checking scripture.
I do wonder how one can be severed from Jesus if they were never part of His body. I wonder how Peter stood condemned after being given the keys, being filled with the Holy Spirit, and writing scripture. I wonder how Jesus says that the one that puts his hand to the plow and looks back is not worthy of the kingdom of Heaven - However, I have also wondered why Jesus says this since none of us are worthy of the kingdom of Heaven.
it doesn't seem possible to me, that a person can come into a real relationship with Jesus, and then turn their back on Him. It doesn't seem like after seeing who Jesus is and being saved, that one would want to turn their back on Him. To me it would be like being in middle of ocean with a life preserver and poking hole in it. i believe once we truly come to Christ and have a good root system, there is no turning back.
1 Corinthians 15:2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
Ephesians 4-5
Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, [SUP]2 [/SUP]with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love, [SUP]3 [/SUP]being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.[SUP]4 [/SUP]There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; [SUP]5 [/SUP]one Lord, one faith, one baptism, [SUP]6 [/SUP]one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.[SUP]7 [/SUP]But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Therefore it says,
“When He ascended on high,
He led captive a host of captives,
And He gave gifts to men.”
[SUP]9 [/SUP](Now this expression, “He ascended,” what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth? [SUP]10 [/SUP]He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.) [SUP]11 [/SUP]And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, [SUP]12 [/SUP]for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; [SUP]13 [/SUP]until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. [SUP]14 [/SUP]As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; [SUP]15 [/SUP]but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, [SUP]16 [/SUP]from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind, [SUP]18 [/SUP]being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart; [SUP]19 [/SUP]and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness. [SUP]20 [/SUP]But you did not learn Christ in this way, [SUP]21 [/SUP]if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus, [SUP]22 [/SUP]that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, [SUP]23 [/SUP]and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, [SUP]24 [/SUP]and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Therefore, laying aside falsehood, speak truth each one of you with his neighbor, for we are members of one another. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Be angry, and yet do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, [SUP]27 [/SUP]and do not give the devil an opportunity. [SUP]28 [/SUP]He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.
Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; [SUP]2 [/SUP]and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; [SUP]4 [/SUP]and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Therefore do not be partakers with them; [SUP]8 [/SUP]for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light[SUP]9 [/SUP](for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth), [SUP]10 [/SUP]trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; [SUP]12 [/SUP]for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret. [SUP]13 [/SUP]But all things become visible when they are exposed by the light, for everything that becomes visible is light. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For this reason it says,
“Awake, sleeper,
And arise from the dead,
And Christ will shine on you.”
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, [SUP]16 [/SUP]making the most of your time, because the days are evil. [SUP]17 [/SUP]So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. [SUP]18 [/SUP]And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit, [SUP]19 [/SUP]speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord; [SUP]20 [/SUP]always giving thanks for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God, even the Father; [SUP]21 [/SUP]and be subject to one another in the fear of Christ.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord.[SUP]23 [/SUP]For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. [SUP]24 [/SUP]But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, [SUP]26 [/SUP]so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, [SUP]27 [/SUP]that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless. [SUP]28 [/SUP]So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; [SUP]29 [/SUP]for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, [SUP]30 [/SUP]because we are members of His body. [SUP]31 [/SUP]For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and shall be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. [SUP]32 [/SUP]This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church. [SUP]33 [/SUP]Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.
That's a lot of instruction to give people that are not asked to do anything. But I suppose I don't need to be concerned with any of these things, because I heard about OSAS, and now I know that I can not fall. I suppose that God/Jesus doesn't do anything, since we are told to imitate Jesus, but are not asked to do anything as Christians.
I don't think that you believe that, but it often seems that those are the words that you write. I tell you this so that you will know that how what you are saying is coming across. Maybe you are aware. But this is not right. If we have put on Jesus, then we are changed. If we are not changed, then we have not put on Jesus.
We are saved without work, but we must work. Because work without faith is dead. If OSAS is true, then the Christian that faithfully served the Lord for thirty, forty, fifty years, but then denies Jesus and goes on a sin rampage was never saved. I am deeply troubled by this, but one of the elders at a congregation that I attended started cheating on his wife; After getting caught, he left his wife and is now engaged to be married to one of the women he was sleeping with. Maybe he was never serious about God. But I tend to think that he just changed his mind. I do not believe that he is saved given the current circumstances. I know that it is God's decision and my opinion doesn't matter. But I seriously doubt you would encourage this man to continue down the road he is on.
Ephesians 4-5
Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, [SUP]2 [/SUP]with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love, [SUP]3 [/SUP]being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.[SUP]4 [/SUP]There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; [SUP]5 [/SUP]one Lord, one faith, one baptism, [SUP]6 [/SUP]one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.[SUP]7 [/SUP]But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Therefore it says,
“When He ascended on high,
He led captive a host of captives,
And He gave gifts to men.”
[SUP]9 [/SUP](Now this expression, “He ascended,” what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth? [SUP]10 [/SUP]He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.) [SUP]11 [/SUP]And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, [SUP]12 [/SUP]for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; [SUP]13 [/SUP]until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. [SUP]14 [/SUP]As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; [SUP]15 [/SUP]but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, [SUP]16 [/SUP]from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind, [SUP]18 [/SUP]being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart; [SUP]19 [/SUP]and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness. [SUP]20 [/SUP]But you did not learn Christ in this way, [SUP]21 [/SUP]if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus, [SUP]22 [/SUP]that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, [SUP]23 [/SUP]and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, [SUP]24 [/SUP]and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Therefore, laying aside falsehood, speak truth each one of you with his neighbor, for we are members of one another. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Be angry, and yet do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, [SUP]27 [/SUP]and do not give the devil an opportunity. [SUP]28 [/SUP]He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.
Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; [SUP]2 [/SUP]and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; [SUP]4 [/SUP]and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Therefore do not be partakers with them; [SUP]8 [/SUP]for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light[SUP]9 [/SUP](for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth), [SUP]10 [/SUP]trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; [SUP]12 [/SUP]for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret. [SUP]13 [/SUP]But all things become visible when they are exposed by the light, for everything that becomes visible is light. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For this reason it says,
“Awake, sleeper,
And arise from the dead,
And Christ will shine on you.”
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, [SUP]16 [/SUP]making the most of your time, because the days are evil. [SUP]17 [/SUP]So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. [SUP]18 [/SUP]And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit, [SUP]19 [/SUP]speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord; [SUP]20 [/SUP]always giving thanks for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God, even the Father; [SUP]21 [/SUP]and be subject to one another in the fear of Christ.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord.[SUP]23 [/SUP]For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. [SUP]24 [/SUP]But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, [SUP]26 [/SUP]so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, [SUP]27 [/SUP]that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless. [SUP]28 [/SUP]So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; [SUP]29 [/SUP]for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, [SUP]30 [/SUP]because we are members of His body. [SUP]31 [/SUP]For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and shall be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. [SUP]32 [/SUP]This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church. [SUP]33 [/SUP]Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.
That's a lot of instruction to give people that are not asked to do anything. But I suppose I don't need to be concerned with any of these things, because I heard about OSAS, and now I know that I can not fall. I suppose that God/Jesus doesn't do anything, since we are told to imitate Jesus, but are not asked to do anything as Christians.
I don't think that you believe that, but it often seems that those are the words that you write. I tell you this so that you will know that how what you are saying is coming across. Maybe you are aware. But this is not right. If we have put on Jesus, then we are changed. If we are not changed, then we have not put on Jesus.
We are saved without work, but we must work. Because work without faith is dead. If OSAS is true, then the Christian that faithfully served the Lord for thirty, forty, fifty years, but then denies Jesus and goes on a sin rampage was never saved. I am deeply troubled by this, but one of the elders at a congregation that I attended started cheating on his wife; After getting caught, he left his wife and is now engaged to be married to one of the women he was sleeping with. Maybe he was never serious about God. But I tend to think that he just changed his mind. I do not believe that he is saved given the current circumstances. I know that it is God's decision and my opinion doesn't matter. But I seriously doubt you would encourage this man to continue down the road he is on.
