Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[newbirth]

I guess you read that too fast and missed that ALL OF THOSE HE GAVE THE POWER TO BECOME SONS OF GOD, WERE BORN AGAIN BY THE HOLY SPIRIT. SPIRIT gives birth to spirit (John 3:6); hence the Holy Spirit brings or births our human spirit into Eternal Life.

I missed nothing friend verse 13 God did what man could not do.Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Verse 12 he gave you (man)power to become a Son of God .He did the hard part he gave us the easy part.
Do you deny he gave you power to become a Son of God ?
Not human spirit. Being born of God why would you want a human spirit anyway?
Notice you have to mortify the deeds of the body through the spirit
Romans 8:13-15
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.


[SUP]14 [/SUP]For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.



Full Definition of MORTIFY
transitive verb
1
obsolete : to destroy the strength, vitality, or functioning of

2
: to subdue or deaden (as the body or bodily appetites) especially by abstinence or self-inflicted pain or discomfort

3
: to subject to severe and vexing embarrassment : shame

 

[Patnubay]

In order for one to become a Christian, he MUST faithfully obey God in doing works of believing, Jn 8;24; repentance, Lk 13:3,5 confession, Matt 10:32,33 and submit to baptism, Mk 16:16. My Opinion: To become a Christian is to accept Jesus Christ's offer of Grace. There is no "must". It is a choice, a positive consequence of having freewill. It is a pro active decision.


Then upon becoming a Christian and remaining saved, the Christian MUST maintain an obedient faith, Rev 2:10, keeping Christ works Rev 2:26, continue walking in the light so all his sin can continually be cleansed, 1 Jn 1:7 and do good works that God pre-ordained Christians to walk in, Eph 2:10, Matt 25:32ff My Opinion : Upon becoming Christian we become obedient to faith. Our actions as Christians are not a "Must Do" but rather as a consequence thereof or as a result of. My analogy is this: We were in our mother's womb and we were born. It is not that we MUST breath but rather breathing becomes automatic as a consequence of being born. It simply means being born is breathing. It is not that we can say, I'll stop breathing because I don't want to; because being born is breathing and breathing is being born.

It therefore is IMPOSSIBLE for a man to do nothing his entire life and yet still be saved. No verse says "do nothing" to become a Christian and "do nothing" to remain a faithful Christian. My Opinion : The first statement is very tricky and presumptuous. it is already leaning towards the side of having a part in our Salvation. However, I'd say this : It is impossible for a man to do nothing and yet remained saved because being saved means automatically doing something. Like I said, we are born because we breathed. If we did not breath then we were not born. We came out dead.


So can anyone demonstrate how a man can never do ANY KIND of work his entire life yet still be saved? My Opinion : the answer is very simple. I DO NOT call it "work". "Breathing" is not work for me.

 

[VCO]

I missed nothing friend verse 13 God did what man could not do.Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Verse 12 he gave you (man)power to become a Son of God .He did the hard part he gave us the easy part.
Do you deny he gave you power to become a Son of God ?

Not human spirit. Being born of God why would you want a human spirit anyway?

Notice you have to mortify the deeds of the body through the spirit
. . .

Oh my, somewhere you have fallen for some very serious false teaching. Has someone taught you that, or did you come up with it on your own?

So you are saying that you do not believe that the human being is made up of three parts body, soul, and a spirit part that the Holy Spirit brings to life? Please bare with me, because I will show you the human spirit is a REALITY, and without it being brought to life by the Holy Spirit, you can never enter heaven.

Job 32:8 (NKJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But there is a spirit in man, And the breath {Holy Spirit} of the Almighty gives him understanding.

Zechariah 12:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] The burden of the word of the LORD concerning Israel. Thus declares the LORD who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him,

John 3:6-7 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

1 Thessalonians 5:23 (HCSB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely. And may your spirit, soul, and body be kept sound and blameless for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

See it? We are triune being just like GOD. Three parts that make up one human being. The spirit part of man is the part that instantly goes to the throne room in heaven specifically under the altar at the moment of death. AND those spirits that born again never die, and they are alive, functioning and thinking!

Revelation 6:9-10 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls {implied spirits} of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

STRONG'S DICTIONARY:

Greek Strong's Number: 5590
Greek Word: ψυχή
Transliteration: psychē
Phonetic Pronunciation:

psoo-khay'
Root: from <G5594>
Cross Reference: TDNT - 9:608,1342
Part of Speech: n f
Vine's Words: Doubt (be in; make to), Doubtful, Doubting, Heart, Heartily, Life, Living, Lifetime, Life-giving, Soul
Usage Notes:
English Words used in KJV:
soul 58
life 40
mind 3
heart 1
heartily + <G1537> 1
not tr 2
[Total Count: 105]
from <G5594> (psucho); breath, i.e. (by implication) spirit, abstract or concrete (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from <G4151> (pneuma), which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from <G2222> (zoe), which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew <H5315> (nephesh), <H7307> (ruwach) and <H2416> (chay)) :- heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.

Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.

I do not know why the KJV Translation team chose to translate that word to soul, when it primary root meaning is breath, and clearly "breath of the Almighty GOD" is the Holy Spirit. Perhaps because of a common believe that soul and spirit are inseparable; even though we have a verse that says the Word of GOD is sharper that a two edged sword, able to divide soul and spirit.

Psalm 16:9-10 (GW)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] That is why my heart is glad and my soul rejoices. My body rests securely
[SUP]10 [/SUP] because you do not abandon my soul to the grave or allow your holy one to decay.

Perhaps the answer lies in those verses. Clearly heart is not the soul, and yet one VINE'S translations for "psychē" is heart.
For what it is worth, I think heart in the above verse is a reference to spirit. AND it may very well be that the souls of believers travel with the their spirits to heaven. I think that the soul of man is actually His [psyche], thoughts, memories, emotions, cognitive abilities, all the functions of the human brain.

2 Corinthians 5:8-9 (NKJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him.
Philippians 1:23-26 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better;
[SUP]24 [/SUP] yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Convinced of this, I know that I will remain and continue with you all for your progress and joy in the faith,
[SUP]26 [/SUP] so that your proud confidence in me may abound in Christ Jesus through my coming to you again.

 

[Josefnospam]

whose work saves us. Ours or Christ the Lord and Saviour. What can you, or anyone, add to what God has done?

I'm not so glad I am not under the Law........................But under grace. And my righteousness is only in him. The works of the law is a curse but Christ has redeemed us from this curse. Gal. 3 10 thru 13

 

[newbirth]

Oh my, somewhere you have fallen for some very serious false teaching. Has someone taught you that, or did you come up with it on your own?

So you are saying that you do not believe that the human being is made up of three parts body, soul, and a spirit part that the Holy Spirit brings to life? Please bare with me, because I will show you the human spirit is a REALITY, and without it being brought to life by the Holy Spirit, you can never enter heaven.

when you put it that way, what you say I don't believe.Now answer me Do you deny God gave you power to become a son of God

Job 32:8 (NKJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But there is a spirit in man, And the breath {Holy Spirit} of the Almighty gives him understanding.

Zechariah 12:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] The burden of the word of the LORD concerning Israel. Thus declares the LORD who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him,

John 3:6-7 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

1 Thessalonians 5:23 (HCSB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely. And may your spirit, soul, and body be kept sound and blameless for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

See it? We are triune being just like GOD. Three parts that make up one human being. The spirit part of man is the part that instantly goes to the throne room in heaven specifically under the altar at the moment of death. AND those spirits that born again never die, and they are alive, functioning and thinking!

Revelation 6:9-10 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls {implied spirits} of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

STRONG'S DICTIONARY:

Greek Strong's Number: 5590
Greek Word: ψυχή
Transliteration: psychē
Phonetic Pronunciation:

psoo-khay'
Root: from <G5594>
Cross Reference: TDNT - 9:608,1342
Part of Speech: n f
Vine's Words: Doubt (be in; make to), Doubtful, Doubting, Heart, Heartily, Life, Living, Lifetime, Life-giving, Soul
Usage Notes:
English Words used in KJV:
soul 58
life 40
mind 3
heart 1
heartily + <G1537> 1
not tr 2
[Total Count: 105]
from <G5594> (psucho); breath, i.e. (by implication) spirit, abstract or concrete (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from <G4151> (pneuma), which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from <G2222> (zoe), which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew <H5315> (nephesh), <H7307> (ruwach) and <H2416> (chay)) :- heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.

Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.

I do not know why the KJV Translation team chose to translate that word to soul, when it primary root meaning is breath, and clearly "breath of the Almighty GOD" is the Holy Spirit. Perhaps because of a common believe that soul and spirit are inseparable; even though we have a verse that says the Word of GOD is sharper that a two edged sword, able to divide soul and spirit.

Psalm 16:9-10 (GW)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] That is why my heart is glad and my soul rejoices. My body rests securely
[SUP]10 [/SUP] because you do not abandon my soul to the grave or allow your holy one to decay.

Perhaps the answer lies in those verses. Clearly heart is not the soul, and yet one VINE'S translations for "psychē" is heart.
For what it is worth, I think heart in the above verse is a reference to spirit. AND it may very well be that the souls of believers travel with the their spirits to heaven. I think that the soul of man is actually His [psyche], thoughts, memories, emotions, cognitive abilities, all the functions of the human brain.

2 Corinthians 5:8-9 (NKJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him.
Philippians 1:23-26 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better;
[SUP]24 [/SUP] yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Convinced of this, I know that I will remain and continue with you all for your progress and joy in the faith,
[SUP]26 [/SUP] so that your proud confidence in me may abound in Christ Jesus through my coming to you again.

I said before you were a comic I digress don't lose your day job It's not so funny anymore. Concerning what was posted and your reply. What you replied and nothing is the same .You quote a million and one scripture jumpimg all over the place like a headless chicken to confuse me but it will not work.Show me the false teaching from my quote

 

[VCO]

In order for one to become a Christian, he MUST faithfully obey God in doing works of believing, Jn 8;24; repentance, Lk 13:3,5 confession, Matt 10:32,33 and submit to baptism, Mk 16:16. My Opinion: To become a Christian is to accept Jesus Christ's offer of Grace. There is no "must". It is a choice, a positive consequence of having freewill. It is a pro active decision.


Then upon becoming a Christian and remaining saved, the Christian MUST maintain an obedient faith, Rev 2:10, keeping Christ works Rev 2:26, continue walking in the light so all his sin can continually be cleansed, 1 Jn 1:7 and do good works that God pre-ordained Christians to walk in, Eph 2:10, Matt 25:32ff My Opinion : Upon becoming Christian we become obedient to faith. Our actions as Christians are not a "Must Do" but rather as a consequence thereof or as a result of. My analogy is this: We were in our mother's womb and we were born. It is not that we MUST breath but rather breathing becomes automatic as a consequence of being born. It simply means being born is breathing. It is not that we can say, I'll stop breathing because I don't want to; because being born is breathing and breathing is being born.

It therefore is IMPOSSIBLE for a man to do nothing his entire life and yet still be saved. No verse says "do nothing" to become a Christian and "do nothing" to remain a faithful Christian. My Opinion : The first statement is very tricky and presumptuous. it is already leaning towards the side of having a part in our Salvation. However, I'd say this : It is impossible for a man to do nothing and yet remained saved because being saved means automatically doing something. Like I said, we are born because we breathed. If we did not breath then we were not born. We came out dead.


So can anyone demonstrate how a man can never do ANY KIND of work his entire life yet still be saved? My Opinion : the answer is very simple. I DO NOT call it "work". "Breathing" is not work for me.

Malachi 3:6 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "For I am the LORD, I do not change; Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.

You are adding to the WORD of GOD, by insisting that there are "must do's" to become a saved Christian.

When did the thief on the Cross faithfully obey?

When did the thief on the Cross get baptized?

Those are Will Do's that spawn out of a saved Christian's heart. You are confusing SALVATION with our CHRISTIAN WALK, they are two different things.

Since GOD does not Change, HIS requirements for Salvation do not change. So if we can find out how GOD saved ONE man, we will know how He saves all men.

Romans 4:3-5 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now to the one who works, pay is not considered as a gift, but as something owed.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness.

You are SAVED from the moment you first believed receiving Him as LORD, IF THAT WAS REALLY from the heart and NOT just an intellectual decision, the REST WILL FOLLOW AS A BY-PRODUCT OF THAT GENUINE SALVATION.

 

[VCO]

I said before you were a comic I digress don't lose your day job It's not so funny anymore. Concerning what was posted and your reply. What you replied and nothing is the same .You quote a million and one scripture jumpimg all over the place like a headless chicken to confuse me but it will not work.Show me the false teaching from my quote

I shared the TRUTH with you, and you rejected it. Do remember you made the decision to reject it; and apparently even make fun of the work of the Holy Spirit. We are finished.

 

[newbirth]

I shared the TRUTH with you, and you rejected it. Do remember you made the decision to reject it; and apparently even make fun of the work of the Holy Spirit. We are finished.

where did I make fun of the holy spirit? I answered your question you are scared to answer mine Do you deny God gave you power to become a Son of God yes or no?

 

[VCO]

where did I make fun of the holy spirit? I answered your question you are scared to answer mine Do you deny God gave you power to become a Son of God yes or no?

Every thing that I told you about born again, is a work of the Holy Spirit. Yes, and that power specifically is to believe and receive Jesus Christ as LORD, which means Master, which at that very moment we are SAVED, not by anything we did but because of EVERYTHING HE DID. The sons of GOD is a position of adoption, that is part of when the Holy Spirit brings our once dead spirit to eternal life HE then immerses us INTO THE SPIRITUAL BODY OF CHRIST. The HOLY SPIRIT also empowers us to live and walk a lifestyle of obeying HIM purely because we LOVE HIM. Our human spirits are led by the HOLY SPIRIT to LOVE GOD and to manifest that love for HIM by obedience, because HE SAVED US, the moment we believed.

Romans 8:14-16 (HCSB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] All those led by God’s Spirit are God’s sons.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption, by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father!”
[SUP]16 [/SUP] The Spirit Himself testifies together with our spirit that we are God’s children,

 

[newbirth]

Every thing that I told you about born again, is a work of the Holy Spirit. Yes, and that power specifically is to believe and receive Jesus Christ as LORD, which means Master, which at that very moment we are SAVED, not by anything we did but because of EVERYTHING HE DID. The sons of GOD is a position of adoption, that is part of when the Holy Spirit brings our once dead spirit to eternal life HE then immerses us INTO THE SPIRITUAL BODY OF CHRIST. The HOLY SPIRIT also empowers us to live and walk a lifestyle of obeying HIM purely because we LOVE HIM. Our human spirits are led by the HOLY SPIRIT to LOVE GOD and to manifest that love for HIM by obedience, because HE SAVED US, the moment we believed.

Romans 8:14-16 (HCSB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] All those led by God’s Spirit are God’s sons.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption, by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father!”
[SUP]16 [/SUP] The Spirit Himself testifies together with our spirit that we are God’s children,

I am confused are you responding to my question? a simple yes or no will suffice

 

[VCO]

I am confused are you responding to my question? a simple yes or no will suffice

No it won't, because I suspect we have different terminology definitions; and I want to be sure you understand exactly what I mean by "He empowered us to become sons of GOD", or any other Christian terminology we discuss.

 

[newbirth]

No it won't, because I suspect we have different terminology definitions; and I want to be sure you understand exactly what I mean by "He empowered us to become sons of GOD", or any other Christian terminology we discuss.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Why should I want to understand what you mean...We need to understand what God mean. God gave you the power (right ,ability to do or act ) to become a Son of God.
We have been given the ability to act so act it is our responsibility.
Romans 8:13-15
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.


[SUP]14 [/SUP]For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.



[h=3]2 Peter 1[/h]King James Version (KJV)


1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

[SUP]2 [/SUP]Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

[SUP]6 [/SUP]And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

[SUP]7 [/SUP]And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

[SUP]11 [/SUP]For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

(The colour, bold and large typing is for emphasis not shouting God Bless)

 

[homwardbound]

whose work saves us. Ours or Christ the Lord and Saviour. What can you, or anyone, add to what God has done?

I'm not so glad I am not under the Law........................But under grace. And my righteousness is only in him. The works of the law is a curse but Christ has redeemed us from this curse. Gal. 3 10 thru 13

Awesome truth, thank you

 

[captbuz]

Eph 2:8-9 For by grace ye are saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:[it is] the gift of God: Not of Works lest any man should boast.

At this point in time, God is using his apostle Paul, and this age of grace. He is not using the Kingdom Program he promised
to Israel.

As such, God unstructs us in this age to use the Paulean Epistles for this present Dispensation of Grace - Eph.3:2 If ye have heard of the Dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward.

You cannot take instructions God gave to the twelve (i.e. Matt- Acts 9 and Heb. thru Rev.) and use them today in the age of the grace of God.

Before some of our brothers and sisters get upset over the word "Dispensation", this is a biblical word. It is used in the New Testament 4 times. Not church dogma.

A Dispensation: isa particular set of instructions that God gives for man’s obedience.

 

[VCO]

. . . .You quote a million and one scripture jumpimg all over the place like a headless chicken to confuse me but it will not work.Show me the false teaching from my quote

Every verse that I used was relevant to our discussion. The Bible actually encourages us to compare Scripture to Scripture on the same subject to discern what the Truth actually is. GOD does not contradict Himself. Whenever we think we found a contradiction, we can be certain that we misinterpreted at least one, if not both verses.

Acts 17:11 (NIV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

 

[VCO]

Eph 2:8-9 For by grace ye are saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:[it is] the gift of God: Not of Works lest any man should boast.

At this point in time, God is using his apostle Paul, and this age of grace. He is not using the Kingdom Program he promised
to Israel.

As such, God unstructs us in this age to use the Paulean Epistles for this present Dispensation of Grace - Eph.3:2 If ye have heard of the Dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward.

You cannot take instructions God gave to the twelve (i.e. Matt- Acts 9 and Heb. thru Rev.) and use them today in the age of the grace of God.

Before some of our brothers and sisters get upset over the word "Dispensation", this is a biblical word. It is used in the New Testament 4 times. Not church dogma.

A Dispensation: isa particular set of instructions that God gives for man’s obedience.

Is that so?

Acts 17:11 (NIV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

Malachi 3:6 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "I the LORD do not change. So you, O descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed.

Matthew 5:18 (NIV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, {KJV - jot or tittle} will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

 

[newbirth]

Every verse that I used was relevant to our discussion. The Bible actually encourages us to compare Scripture to Scripture on the same subject to discern what the Truth actually is. GOD does not contradict Himself. Whenever we think we found a contradiction, we can be certain that we misinterpreted at least one, if not both verses.

Acts 17:11 (NIV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

but you still did not answer the question Do you deny God gave you power to become a Son of God?

 

[VCO]

[SUP]12 [/SUP]But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Why should I want to understand what you mean...We need to understand what God mean. God gave you the power (right ,ability to do or act ) to become a Son of God.
We have been given the ability to act so act it is our responsibility.
Romans 8:13-15
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.


[SUP]14 [/SUP]For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.



2 Peter 1

King James Version (KJV)


1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

[SUP]2 [/SUP]Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

[SUP]6 [/SUP]And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

[SUP]7 [/SUP]And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

[SUP]11 [/SUP]For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

(The colour, bold and large typing is for emphasis not shouting God Bless)

I like colors too and the boldness, I certainly do not take as shouting. My first study Bible became so marked up with different colors of highlighters, that I finally had to buy a new one. Each color stood for different things such as Salvation references, sin and repentance references, glorifying God, spiritual growth, etc.

May I point out that it is not the human fleshly mind that is Led by the Holy Spirit, it is the mind of the human spirit after it is born again.

John 3:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Romans 8:14-16 (HCSB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]All those led by God’s Spirit are God’s sons.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption, by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father!”
[SUP]16 [/SUP]The Spirit Himself testifies together with our spirit that we are God’s children,

1 Corinthians 2:13-14 (NIV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned {understood}.

Job 32:8 (ASV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But there is a spirit in man, And the breath of the Almighty giveth them understanding.


GRANTED as we mature spiritually, the mind of our spirit will become dominant over the mind of our flesh. In fact early in Paul's ministry he was having a quite a battle between the mind of his spirit and the mind of his flesh. (Ref. Acts 7:14-25) However later in his ministry, after he had matured spiritually, we do not see that intense struggle anymore.

 

[captbuz]

Actually, Yes it is !

Please read Romans 1:16, Romans 2:9, Romans 2:10


Referencing your quote, Acts 17. Paul, preached to both Jew and Gentile in his early ministry. Thessalonica and Berea were two of the first cities Paul visited. When Paul entered a new city, he would go the the synagogue first. (the Jew First)There he first preached that Jesus was their Messiah. Once he established Christ's Godhood, He would reveal the gospel of the grace of God. In almost all cases, the Jews rejected Paul's message and sought to do him harm. Hence, Acts 17:11.
It was mostly the Gentiles in these respective cities that believed and accepted Pauls message.

Not until Galatians 2:7-9, do we see Paul and the twelve agreeing that Paul would go the the Gentiles, and the twelve
headed by Peter would go to the circumcision.

Referencing your quote, Malachi 3:6. You are absolutely right. God does not change. But everywhere along the timeline of Gods dealings toward man, His rules do change, from "Adam" thru "the Great White Throne Judgement".

Here is an example:
(I am going to paraphrase the passages below, so please look at them closely later.)

God places Adam & Eve in the garden and tells them in Gen. 1:29 - I’ve given you every herb bearing seed and the fruit of every tree yielding seed and for you it shall be meat. In other words, God tells them they are to be vegetarian’s.
Moving ahead along the timeline to Gen. 9:2-3. After God docks the Ark, He tells Noah that besides all the herbs and fruit, that every moving thing i.e. the birds, animals, fish. Everything is now meat for him and his family. In other words, "If you can catch it! You can eat it! Just don’t drink the blood.
Then further along the timeline in Leviticus 11:1-10, God instructs Moses to inform the nation Israel that they can only eat herbs and certain meats.
Now lets say you were one of the people Moses lead out of Egypt, and Moses give you the Book of Leviticus with its new dietary laws. Then you go back to Moses and say," I appreciate all the new dietary regulations, but I’m going to use Gen. 9 rules because I like having Bacon with my Eggs in the morning. "Moses, you know Gen. 9 is scriptural!
Remember you wrote it! It’s God’s word! I want to be Godly and to be able to look God in the eye and able to say I Claim Gen. 9. Do you think Moses would allow that?I thinkMoses would tell you "that’s Tuff Cookies! Your still going to have to follow Leviticus:11." Then you’d say but it’s scriptural! And Moses would say yes it is, but it’s not "dispensational". God has changed the program and given us a new set of rules to obey.

Know let’s move ahead again along the timeline and go to I Tim 4:1-4. Verse 4 says we can eat everything because God has sanctified it.

As you can see, by this brief example, God has changed the dietary laws man was to follow throughout this piece of the historical timeline. Not because God has changed, but because God changed the dietary laws through mans history.

This is the kind of trouble that happens when we do not Rightly Divide Gods Word. And these are just dietary laws. Imagine the Danger you would place yourself in, on the subject of your Salvation.

Referencing your quote, Matt. 5:18. What Jesus says here is Absolutely Correct!!. What you are ignoring are, three little words, in this quote from our Lord - will by any means disappear from the Law ".

At the stoning of Stephen Acts 7. it was the third time Israel rejected God, and God suspended Israel's Kingdom Program. God did not end the Kingdom Program, the Law, the Prophets, etc. He set their Kingdom Program aside. And through Paul, changed the rules man is to obey to the Gospel of the Grace of God. When the Age of Grace ends, the Gospel of the Kingdom will start again and pickup right where it left off. This fact makes Matt. 5:18 absolutely true.

I hope this is helpful to you. God Bless

 

[francina]

Yep, the pastor was teaching bible study & he has many moral issues but his aunt started the church & has all the money. So, he is the pastor & he started to read 1 John 5 but suddenly looked at it & changed his mind. He has convinced the lesbian, the drug addicts that they are children of God, because look he & his aunt also has faults. So he has appeased them so they can stop calling him false. They love to ignore scriptures. It is frustrating. We can only fast & pray for their deliverance from deception. After all Martin Luther wanted to take the entire book of Jude out of the bible along with Hebrews 6 & 10. They constantly tell you that when Jesus says, "If your eye causes you to sin pluck it out because it is better to enter heaven lame than to be cast into hell whole" - they say, oh, it does not mean what it says. I've even heard preachers say Jesus did not preach the gospel. They thank God for Paul about whom Peter said taught the same things they did but unstable souls twist his words to their own damnation.