It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[newbirth]

SALVATION BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH IS NOT AN ISOLATED VERSE HERE OR THERE.

Some claimed: "using Scripture here and there and justifying ignorant faith in non-completion"

Next the criticism will be that the post was too long. Anyone who charges me on this subject of just usimg Scripture here and there, a few verses in isolation must either be a crass distorter of the truth, or blind, or given to shooting from the hip without reading posts. I don't think this system will receive all the verses I have on this subject. But I will post Romans again on salvation (only) for faith -- nothing added, hardly isolated verses; maybe I will have room also for Galatians. The evidence is overwhelming. Now after this, if one still claims there are not enough verses, I can paste a lot more.

Your whole concept of Gentiles doing works of the law is baseless because you know it starts with circumcision the same way your show of faith in Christ starts with water baptism.So why would one be baptised? is it not because they believe and obey. So your act of obedience to Christ is proof that you believe.Salvation is for those who believe, what is the proof that you continue to believe, it is continued obedience. If you disobey and continue to do so it means you don't believe, and the disobedient do not inherit eternal life. I am not quoting any scripture this time you know I always do. It is time you start reading the word with faith in God ...not ES not OSAS not YOURSELF me or anyone else

 

[know1]

Someone keeps arguing that there is only 1 kind of faith.

James doesn't agree with that; neither does the Greek dictionary.

1A) But if any of you lacketh wisdom, let him ask of God, who giveth to all liberally and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing doubting:

1B) the demons believe & tremble.

These 2 verses prove that James knows of 2 kinds of faith
1A = trust, 1B = factually convinced something is so.

Sir, there is only one kind of Godly faith, and that is the faith of God that is in us. Without His faith operating in us, our prayers don't get answered.
You keep lumping faith and believing together as though they were one in the same things. They are not. There is more than one kind of believing, but only one kind of faith, and that is the faith of God. And that is what you missed in my post. Faith is a spirit of God that causes us to trust God and believe His word, like the Holy Ghost does to convict us of sin.
There are some kinds of believing that aren't going to do anything, such as hope.
The believing spoken in the bible, is active, such as, 'I believe and therefore speak'.
One accomplishes nothing, the other gets results.
When you put feet to what you believe, it becomes faith.

 

[know1]

[/B][/SIZE]
It is not talking about kinds of faith or only 1 kind. All Christians have one trust in the Lord Jesus and also 1 basic content of belief. That does not deny that the word pistis has a variety of meanings, one being the belief of demons, which is none of the above.

Ephesians 4:5


(BBE) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,


(CEV) We have only one Lord, one faith, and one baptism.


(DRB) One Lord, one faith, one baptism.


(EMTV) one Lord, one faith, one baptism;


(ERV) There is one Lord, one faith, and one baptism.


(ESV) one Lord, one faith, one baptism,


(GNB) There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism;


(GNT) εἷς Κύριος, μία πίστις, ἕν βάπτισμα·


(GNT-BYZ+) ειςG1520 A-NSM κυριοςG2962 N-NSM μιαG1520 A-NSF πιστιςG4102 N-NSF ενG1520 A-NSN βαπτισμαG908 N-NSN


(GNT-TR) εις κυριος μια πιστις εν βαπτισμα


(GNT-TR+) ειςG1520 A-NSM κυριοςG2962 N-NSM μιαG1520 A-NSF πιστιςG4102 N-NSF ενG1520 A-NSN βαπτισμαG908 N-NSN


(GNT-WH+) ειςG1520 A-NSM κυριοςG2962 N-NSM μιαG1520 A-NSF πιστιςG4102 N-NSF ενG1520 A-NSN βαπτισμαG908 N-NSN


(GW) There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism,


(ISV) There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism,


(KJV) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,


(KJV+) OneG1520 Lord,G2962 oneG3391 faith,G4102 oneG1520 baptism,G908


(LITV) one Lord, one faith, one baptism,


(LXX+WH+) ειςG1520 A-NSM κυριοςG2962 N-NSM μιαG1520 A-NSF πιστιςG4102 N-NSF ενG1520 A-NSN βαπτισμαG908 N-NSN


(MKJV) one Lord, one faith, one baptism,


(Murdock) For, the Lord is one, and the faith one, and the baptism one;


(RV) one Lord, one faith, one baptism,


(Vulgate) unus Dominus una fides unum baptisma


(Webster) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,


(WNT) There is but one Lord, one faith, one baptism,


(YLT) one Lord, one faith, one baptism,

The Greek word, mia, means, one, or only one, or first.
There is only one lord, one faith, and one baptism.

[/B][/SIZE]
"All Christians have one trust in the Lord Jesus and also 1 basic content of belief."

What do you mean, 'one trust'?
Try and apply that logic or thinking to the one lord or one baptism. It just doesn't fit.
No, one means exactly that, ONE. There is ONLY ONE FAITH that saves.
I'm just taking it as it is written, and believing what is says in plain simple, and easy to understand Greek, that has been translated into English for people like me. I don't try to make it fit my theology or doctrine. My doctrines fits the word, and if it does fit, I change it, immediately! I suggest you do the same, 'cause the truth ain't gonna change for nobody.

 

[Cassian]

Dear Cassian just says things, so they need little response, as we are not believers in Sola Cassiana or his sayings. God's Word settles arguments.

It is not contradictory at all nor absurd. There is a vast difference between believing facts (like demons do about Christ) and trusting Him as savior; faith as trust. the demons believe and tremble
as James says -- it does neither them nor Cassian any good without trust in the Savior. People change factual beliefs and religions all the time.

As to James vs Paul, I explained that in a separate post twice now.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.

Simon, Simon, behold, Satan asked to have you, that he might sift you as wheat: but I made supplication for thee, that thy faith fail not; and do thou, when once thou hast turned again, establish thy brethren.

No where, but no where in scripture does it ever say that anyone who trusts Christ as Savior, may stop trusting Him as Savior & end up damned.

according to Calvinism there cannot be any because it would cast predestination into the garbage can. But scripture explains consistantly, never ending it seems, that man can lose faith and can forfeit eternal life. There are some 200+ verses, most probably have been cited by several in this thread who understand what a relationship, a covenantal relationship between God and man exists, that categorically deny OSAS.


However, you have devised new definitions of faith, of salvation, of who a believer might be, different classifications of believers just to make a failed attempt to support an unscriptural tenet, OSAS.

Carry on.....

 

[Cassian]

Thus saith Cassian.
What is your proof of that, Cassian? Where does James deny Eternal Security??? Prove or retract.

The entire Book. But then the entire scriptures denies OSAS as well.

I have yet to see any text that would support the basis of OSAS, that man can guarantee his faith. Where is your proof of OSAS? You demand proof but yet you cannot put forth any proof relative to scirpture, but ONLY in defense of predestination/Calvinism to the exclusion of most if not all of scripture to the contrary.

 

[Cassian]

Some Claimed How James Contradicted OSAS
(with no scriptural proof).

Let's look at some interesting James statements:

1A) But if any of you lacketh wisdom, let him ask of God, who giveth to all liberally and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing doubting:

1B) the demons believe & tremble.

These 2 verses prove that James knows of 2 kinds of faith
1A = trust, 1B = factually convinced something is so.

2) Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Was James a Calvinist?

3) ye commit sin, being convicted by the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is become guilty of all.

James rejected salvation by law keeping, as he says in many ways we all stumble & also that if you stumble in one point, you are guilty of all.

4) and the scripture was fulfilled which saith, And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness; and he was called the friend of God.

James believed that Abe was justified by faith.

5) Be patient therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, being patient over it, until it receive the early and latter rain. 8 Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord is at hand. 9 Murmur not, brethren, one against another, that ye be not judged: behold, the judge standeth before the doors.

James believed that Christ's coming was imminent.

There are no verses that deny eternal security in James.

Where is OSAS in any of these texts?
YOu are still kicking that strawman as well.
You don't understand what justification by faith even means, NOT SALVATION, nor attaining eternal life.

Lots of non substantive assertions that do not prove OSAS.

 

[Atwood]

Someone keeps arguing that there is only 1 kind of faith.

James doesn't agree with that; neither does the Greek dictionary.

1A) But if any of you lacketh wisdom, let him ask of God, who giveth to all liberally and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing doubting:

1B) the demons believe & tremble.

These 2 verses prove that James knows of 2 kinds of faith
1A = trust, 1B = factually convinced something is so.

Sir, there is only one kind of Godly faith, and that is the faith of God that is in us. Without His faith operating in us, our prayers don't get answered.

Thus you admit that faith has various legitimate translations, but wish to say there is one kind of godly faith? But the lexicon is not going to support that theory, as a Christian has to believe certain facts (factual faith) and has to trust the Savior (dependence). Demons believe that God is one (factual) and it does not save them. Christians also have to believe that God is one, which is necessary to trusting the real Savior. But that factual faith is different from trusting the Savior. The factual faith is something both demons, unsaved, and Christians may have. But they do not all trust the Lord Jesus as Savior. I guess if you persist, I will post from the Greek lexicon again on faith (pistis/pisteuo).

You keep lumping faith and believing together as though they were one in the same things. They are not. There is more than one kind of believing, but only one kind of faith, and that is the faith of God.

You saying it proves nothing. It is linguistic mumbo jumbo. Any Greek lexicon will give multiple meaning for pistis and pisteuo.

And that is what you missed in my post. Faith is a spirit of God that causes us to trust God and believe His word, like the Holy Ghost does to convict us of sin.

Faith is a spirit of God? SAve us from flights of fancy. Please don't make things up.

The believing spoken in the bible, is active, such as, 'I believe and therefore speak'. One accomplishes nothing, the other gets results.When you put feet to what you believe, it becomes faith.

Faith has consequences, "therefore . . . ." But it doesn't become faith by feet.

Faith is not feet, saving faith is resting in the Savior for salvation. Give diligence to enter that rest, rest from your works, trust the Savior to do His job. I guess next time you have an operation, you will tell the doc, "Doc, don't put me under, give me a scalpel, I want to help."

Know, you say a lot of words, but prove little from the Bible.

Faith is pistis, believe is pisteuo, the verb form of pistis. Faith and believing are alternate translations. Perhaps you didn't realize that while believe and faith are distinct in root, in the Greek NT the words are pistis and pisteuo, same root, noun vs verb.

The truth stands fast:

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.

Note the interchange between believe and faith in Romans & Galatians:

For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

Rom 3:21-30

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; 26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus. 27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

Rom 4:1ff

:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. 3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believes on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness. 6 Even as David also pronounceth blessing upon the man, unto whom God reckoneth righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness. 10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law worketh wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.

Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he that believes on him shall not be put to shame.

Rom 10:4ff

For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to every one that believes. For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith saith thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.


Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:

This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh? 4 Did ye suffer so many things in vain? if it be indeed in vain. 5 He therefore that supplieth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 7 Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all the nations be blessed. 9 So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continueth not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. 11 Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; 12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Gal 3:22ff

But the scripture shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor. For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.

Gal 5:5-6

For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.

 

[Atwood]

Where is OSAS in any of these texts?

I didn't post the material on James for Eternal Security, though I understand that since it was in response to your denyal, you might take it that way. I posted some interesting verses to ponder. And I didn't say that James proved Eternal Security. You fight a straw man.

You are the one who claimed that James contradicted Eternal Security. Now prove your claim or retract.

 

[Atwood]

The entire Book. But then the entire scriptures denies OSAS as well.]

Come on now, Cacssian, utter nonsense. You will claim that a list of David's 30 Mighty Men denies OSAS. Who would believe a vague generalization? Give some proof that James denies OSAS or retract.

I have yet to see any text that would support the basis of OSAS, that man can guarantee his faith. Where is your proof of OSAS? You demand proof but yet you cannot put forth any proof relative to scirpture, but ONLY in defense of predestination/Calvinism to the exclusion of most if not all of scripture to the contrary.

Cassian, stop making things up. I don't recall defending Calvinism here. Your "Calvinism" is a strawman. And I don't recall saying much about predestination other than it is clearly taught in the Bible, and Christians do not agree on how to interpret it.

Focus on your claim, instead of going off on tangents & raising a smoke cloud.

I posted many verses on eternal security (which it the topic of this thread, not OSAS, which you inject).

Quote any verse in James that proves your theory that James refutes OSAS or retract.

 

[Atwood]

DOES JAMES DENY ETERNAL SECURITY? NO!

Some claimed that James denies OSAS (which is his change of term). I looked through James, as it is an edifying book to read, and found nothing either to prove or disprove eternal security in it, though one verse indicates God's sovereignty in the new birth (not exactly the same thing as eternal security).

But let all note, that the one who claimed that James denies OSAS, does not quote one verse from James to sustain that claim.

 

[Atwood]

VERSES PROVING ETERNAL SECURITY

Someone fantasizes that there is no scripture for eternal security though the evidence is abundant and beyond a shadow of doubt. So I repost some verses.

End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
2 Tim 1:8-9
… God; who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,

2 thes 2:16-17 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Romans 8:34
Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Philippians 3:20-21
But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

Ps 138

"thy right hand will save me.
YHWH will perfect that which concerns me:"


Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in
For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Hebrews 10:14
For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
John 4:14
But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.
John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Psalm 34:22
The Lord redeems the life of his servants; none of those who take refuge in him will be condemned.
Jude 1:24
Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Colossians 1:13
He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
Romans 8:32
He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
Hebrews 9:15
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
Ephesians 1:1-23
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus
Ephesians 1:11
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,
[A lot of the above is from the ESV, some from the ASV]

 

[Atwood]

Your whole concept of Gentiles doing works of the law is baseless because you know it starts with circumcision

The only reference I made to Gentiles doing works or the law was in a quote from the Bible; it was part of a context, not an argument I was making. If you don't believe the statement, you must argue with the Lord, since He made it, not I.

the same way your show of faith in Christ starts with water baptism.

Baptism is not equivalent to circumcision. The baby was showing no faith in anything when circumcised. He would have opted out, if he could. Allowing yourself to be baptized is a show of faith, generally not the first show of it.

So why would one be baptised? is it not because they believe and obey. So your act of obedience to Christ is proof that you believe.

It does demonstrate your belief; but not necessarily, someone could just be joining a church with it, even to sell others insurance policies.

Salvation is for those who believe, what is the proof that you continue to believe, it is continued obedience.

Obedience is evidence, yes. Of course the Lord looks ultimately on our hearts, not our outward activities in judging us.

If you disobey and continue to do so it means you don't believe, and the disobedient do not inherit eternal life.

Here we go round the mulberry bush. Persistence in gross sin does evidence that you are heading for the Lake of Fire and never trusted Christ as Savior.

But what will you do about yourself, since you are disobedient? How many sins do you commit each and every day? You better hope you can be saved by grace through faith; otherwise, go buy asbestos underwear now.

I am not quoting any scripture this time you know I always do.

So you prove nothing, but I do commend you for generally quoting the Bible, instead of just pontificating as some do.

It is time you start reading the word with faith in God ...not ES not OSAS not YOURSELF me or anyone else

We must read and trust God's promises.

For the sheep:

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

 

[know1]

How on earth do you put these things out so fast? It take me hours just to do one of these posts.

Thus you admit that faith has various legitimate translations, but wish to say there is one kind of godly faith? But the lexicon is not going to support that theory, as a Christian has to believe certain facts (factual faith) and has to trust the Savior (dependence). Demons believe that God is one (factual) and it does not save them. Christians also have to believe that God is one, which is necessary to trusting the real Savior. But that factual faith is different from trusting the Savior. The factual faith is something both demons, unsaved, and Christians may have. But they do not all trust the Lord Jesus as Savior. I guess if you persist, I will post from the Greek lexicon again on faith (pistis/pisteuo).

The spirit of faith, which is of God, causes the heart to believe. You will act on what you really believe, and when you act on what you believe, they you have faith. If you don't agree with the spirit of faith, by believing, then you don't have faith.
If Jesus is the Word of God, and you agree with the truth of the word of God, then you have received Christ, or a spirit or seed of Christ. The same is true with the spirit of faith. You must agree with, that means to believe, the truth, then the spirit of faith for the thing you are believing for will abide in you.

Faith is a spirit of God? SAve us from flights of fancy. Please don't make things up.

2Co 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;
The word of God says faith is a spirit, not me. I just agreed with and repeated what God said in His word.
They had the same spirit of faith that their fathers had in the old testament.
Like I said, just as the spirit that was on Moses multiplied itself on the seventy, God does the same with the spirit of faith,
Again, that is why we call Abraham our father, because we have the same spirit of faith he had from its seed or offspring.

Faith is not feet, saving faith is resting in the Savior for salvation. Give diligence to enter that rest, rest from your works, trust the Savior to do His job. I guess next time you have an operation, you will tell the doc, "Doc, don't put me under, give me a scalpel, I want to help."

Notice what your confidence is in? Doctors!
If you are resting in the Savior for salvation, try that for your healing. You can't, because you have no faith for healing, which means you can't believe God for it.

Know, you say a lot of words, but prove little from the Bible.

That's because you keep ignoring or failing to see what I prove scripturally.

Faith is pistis, believe is pisteuo, the verb form of pistis. Faith and believing are alternate translations. Perhaps you didn't realize that while believe and faith are distinct in root, in the Greek NT the words are pistis and pisteuo, same root, noun vs verb.

Yes, one means, 'to have faith', translated, 'believe', and the other means 'persuasion or assurance', translated as, 'faith'.
So you do notice that they are not the same. They may hold similar meaning, but they are not the same word or thing.

 

[RickyZ]

[/FONT]
No assumption. If a persons does not claim that Christ is his Savior, he is unsaved. If a person says that Christ has given him merely a chance at salvation, then Christ is not his Savior. He who does not trust Christ with his eternal destiny, does not trust Him as Savior.

The part that says that the group in 6:4-6 never was saved is 6:9. It is absurd to say that 6:9 does not identify the preceding apostates.

[/SIZE]4 For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7 For the land which hath drunk the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them for whose sake it is also tilled, receiveth blessing from God: 8 but if it beareth thorns and thistles, it is rejected and nigh unto a curse; whose end is to be burned.
9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak."

The "thus speak, refers to the apostates in 6:4-8. Did you stop at 6:6 to avoid the identification? Vs 7 starts with "For" an explanatory conjunction explaining the preceding. Vs 8 continues Vs 7 giving the parallel, which applies to 4:4-6. Vs 9 explains that the "thus speak" (6:4-8) refers to those who did not measure up to salvation. 6:9 explains the lemons.

Beware of talking yourself into not trusting the Lord Jesus with your eternal destiny. Give it up; He has done so very much, shedding His precious blood, to give you free eternal life, a never perish security. Trust Him for it. He likes to be trusted.

Vs 4 - 8 are talking about people who have turned away. Verse 9 starts with the all important BUT and goes on to say Paul's heard no such things about this group he is addressing. Two different situations for 2 different groups.

Again, assumption attacks. I trust God completely with my eternal security. Question is, can we humans be likewise trusted with it? My nephew is a case of a very real NO.

Turn that around - your need to convince others that God keeps us prisoner sounds like YOU don't trust Him and must create something to assure yourself that you can't screw it up. Ah but you can, thus your insecurity.

 

[Atwood]

Atwood Posted:

Originally Posted by Atwood

Dear Cassian just says things, so they need little response, as we are not believers in Sola Cassiana or his sayings. God's Word settles arguments.

It is not contradictory at all nor absurd. There is a vast difference between believing facts (like demons do about Christ) and trusting Him as savior; faith as trust. the demons believe and tremble
as James says -- it does neither them nor Cassian any good without trust in the Savior. People change factual beliefs and religions all the time.

As to James vs Paul, I explained that in a separate post twice now.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.

Simon, Simon, behold, Satan asked to have you, that he might sift you as wheat: but I made supplication for thee, that thy faith fail not; and do thou, when once thou hast turned again, establish thy brethren.

No where, but no where in scripture does it ever say that anyone who trusts Christ as Savior, may stop trusting Him as Savior & end up damned.



In response, Cassian went on about Calvinism (his straw man). Cassian says:

But scripture explains consistantly, never ending it seems, that man can lose faith and can forfeit eternal life.

Not one verse says that, and if eternal life were forfeited, it would not be eternal.

There are some 200+ verses, . . ., that categorically deny OSAS.

False. Persons try to quote verses that say nothing about eternal life or salvation and then want to say they are incompatible with eternal security -- but they are not. Yet Cassian goes on pontificating as usual with not a shred of Bible.

most probably have been cited by several in this thread who understand what a relationship, a covenantal relationship between God and man exists

The only Covenant I know of between God and man is that of Noah. Man always breaks God's commands. Whenever the Lord has a covenant with man, man always breaks the commandments. Thus man must look for grace.

The Covenant relative to Christians is the New Covenant, stated in Christ's Blood, Jeremiah 31. It says nothing negating eternal security at its end.

Behold, the days come, saith YHWH, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was a husband unto them, saith YHWH But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith YHWH: I will put my law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know YHWH; for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith YHWH: for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin will I remember no more.

Thus saith YHWH, who giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, who stirreth up the sea, so that the waves thereof roar; YHWH of hosts is his name: If these ordinances depart from before me, saith YHWH, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me forever. Thus saith YHWH: If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, then will I also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith YHWH.

-----------------------


I will make a new covenant not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake,

As opposed to the Covenant of Moses, the Law, the New Covenant is not a Covenant of man's works. Covenants of works are disasters for men, since they don't obey anymore than you obey.

I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin will I remember no more.

All sin is forgiven and forgotten.

being a nation before me forever.

An eternal guarantee.

i f heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, then will I also cast off . . . for all that they have done, saith YHWH.

Sin does not cause a cast off. They are eternally secure.

However, you have devised new definitions of faith, of salvation, of who a believer might be, different classifications of believers just to make a failed attempt

Wrong. The Bible recognizes a factual faith as non-salvific, but offers salvation over and over merely for believing on the Son of God. Prove that I ever made different classifications of believers, unless you mean that there are fact believers, like demons who are not believers in the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior.


Ephesians 1:1-23
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

 

[Atwood]

Some one is hung up arguing about "one faith." Of course Christians have one common faith, both in the sense of they all trust Christ and in the sense that we have one common basic doctrine. The one faith says nothing about others having faiths; it doesn't say that only one faith exists. It also does not say that the trust Christians have in Christ is the same thing as factual faith, like demons have. James clearly distinguishes these.

One faith also does not imply that faith/belief is not used in different ways with different meanings in scripture.

First I post the verb form:

BDAG LEXICON (abbridged)

case abbreviations: acc; = accusative, dat = dative
inf = infinitive; abs = absolute(ly) (no object); pers = person; foll = following
obj = object; v.l. = variant reading
D = the "western text," an inferior text type

πιστεύω pisteuo [I believe]
(the word does not occur in Phlm, 2 Pt, 2 and 3J, Rv. But it is a special favorite of J and 1J, where it is found 96 times and 9 times respectively;

πίστις pistis [faith]
is not found in the gospel at all, and occurs in 1J only once, 5:4.

1. to consider someth. to be true and therefore worthy of one’s trust, believe

a. believe (in) someth., be convinced of someth., w. that which one believes (in) indicated

α. by acc. of thing …ἡ ἀγάπη πάντα πιστεύει [love all-things believes 1 Cor 13:7

β. by means of a ὅτι-clause believe that
π. περί τινος ὅτι believe concerning someone that J 9:18

γ. by the acc. and inf.
πιστεύομεν σωθῆναι = we believe to be saved Ac 15:11

δ. by means of the dat. of thing give credence to, believe

ε. w. prepositional expressions: εἰς [= into] Ro 4:18, …
On πιστεύειν εἰς τὸ ὄνομά τινος …Rather in the sense
‘put one’s trust in’ Sir 32:21 μὴ πιστεύσῃς ἐν ὁδῷ ἀπροσκόπῳ. …

—ἐπί τινι [upon something]:
πιστεύειν [to believe] ἐπὶ πᾶσιν [upon all things] οἷς ἐλάλησαν οἱ προφῆται [which spoke the prophets] Lk 24:25; Ro 9:33.

b. w. the pers. to whom one gives credence or whom one believes, in the dat. …τοῖς θεασαμένοις αὐτὸν ἐγηγερμένον οὐκ ἐπίστευσαν they did not believe those who saw him after he was raised from the dead Mk 16:14.

.—Also of Jesus and God whom one believes, in that one accepts their disclosures without doubt or contradiction: Jesus: … Gal 3:6; Js 2:23; (all three Gen 15:6). ὁ μὴ πιστεύων [the one not believing] τῷ θεῷ [in (the) God] ψεύστην πεποίηκεν αὐτόν [liar has made Him] 1J 5:10b.

c. w. pers. and thing added π. τινί τι believe someone with regard to someth.…
—W. dat. of pers. and ὅτι foll. πιστεύετέ μοι ὅτι ἐγὼ ἐν τῷ πατρί J 14:11a. Cp. 4:21; Ac 27:25.

d. abs. (in which case the context supplies the obj., etc.;
J 20:29ab πιστεύσαντες those who have nevertheless believed (it=the fact of the Resurrection);
Ac 4:4; 26:27b;
1 Cor 11:18 πιστεύω I believe (it=that there are divisions among you); 15:11;
Js 2:19b even the daemons believe this; Jd 5.
Pass. καρδίᾳ πιστεύεται with (or in) the heart men believe (it=that Jesus was raised fr. the dead) Ro 10:10. …

2. to entrust oneself to an entity in complete confidence, believe (in), trust, w. implication of total commitment to the one who is trusted. In our lit. God and Christ are objects of this type of faith that relies on their power and nearness to help, in addition to being convinced that their revelations or disclosures are true.
The obj. is
a. given
α. in the dat.
Some of the passages referred to in 1b above, end, are repeated, since they may be classified here or there w. equal justification.

Of God: π. τῷ θεῷ [believe (in) God]
Ac 16:34;

—Of Christ: J 6:30 (σοί [in you] =vs. 29 εἰς ὃν ἀπέστειλεν ἐκεῖνος [into whom he sent);

J 8:31 (αὐτῷ [(in) him] =vs. 30 εἰς αὐτόν [into him];
Ac 5:14; 18:8a (both τῷ κυρίῳ [(in {the} Lord] );
Ro 10:14b…; 2 Ti 1:12; .
—Pass. be believed in ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ [was believed in (the) world] 1 Ti 3:16.
—π. τῷ ὀνόματι τοῦ υἱοῦ believe in the name of the Son, i.e. believe in the Son and accept what his name proclaims him to be 1J 3:23.

β. w. εἰς [into] God
J 12:44b; 14:1a ;
—Christ: Mt 18:6; Mk 9:42; J 2:11; 3:15 v.l., 16, 18a, 36; 4:39; 6:29, 35, 40, 47 v.l.; 7:5, 31, 38f, 48; 8:30; 9:35f; 10:42; 11:25, 26a, 45, 48; 12:11, 36 (εἰς τὸ φῶς [into the light]), 37, 42, 44a, 46; 14:1b, 12; 16:9; 17:20; Ac 10:43; 14:23; 18:8 D; 19:4; Ro 10:14a; Gal 2:16; Phil 1:29; 1 Pt 1:8; 1J 5:10a;
—εἰς τὸ ὄνομα Ἰησοῦ [into the name of Jesus] (or αὐτοῦ [of him], etc.) J 1:12; 2:23; 3:18c; 1J 5:13

γ. w. ἐπί and dat., of God Ac 11:17 D.
Of Christ: Mt 27:42 v.l.; J 3:15 v.l.; Ro 9:33; 10:11; 1 Pt 2:6 (the last three Is 28:16); 1 Ti 1:16.

δ. w. ἐπί and acc.
of God: Ac 16:34 D; Ro 4:5, 24;
Of Christ: Mt 27:42; J 3:15 v.l.; Ac 9:42; 11:17; 16:31; 22:19.

ε. π. ἔν τινι believe in someone is questionable in our lit.: in J 3:15 the best rdg. is ἐν αὐτῷ [in him] and is prob. to be construed w. ἔχῃ [may have]

(in J πιστεύω usually takes the prep. εἰς [into] when expressing the obj. of belief, as in 3:16);
in Eph 1:13 both occurrences of ἐν ᾧ [in him/it] are prob. to be construed w. ἐσφραγίσθητε [you were sealed] (=‘in connection with whom you have been sealed’ [cp. 4:30]);
the acts of hearing and believing are coordinate, and
πιστεύσαντες [having believed],
along w. ἀκούσαντες, [having heard]
is used abs.

b. not expressed at all

Mk 15:32; 16:16f; Lk 8:12f; J 1:7, 50; 3:15, 18b; 4:41f, 48, 53; 5:44; 6:36, 47, 64ab, perh. 69;
9:38; 10:26; 11:15, 40; 12:39; 20:31b; Ac 4:4; 8:13, 37a; 11:21; 13:12, 39, 48; 14:1; 15:5, 7; 17:12, 34; 18:8b, 27; 19:2; 21:25; Ro 1:16; 3:22; 4:11; 10:4; 13:11; 15:13; 1 Cor 1:21; 3:5; 15:2; Gal 3:22; Eph 1:13, 19; 1 Th 2:10, 13; Hb 4:3; 1 Pt 2:7;

—Participles in the var. tenses are also used almost subst.: (οἱ) πιστεύοντες (the) believers, (the) Christians
Ac 2:44; Ro 3:22; 1 Cor 14:22ab (opp. οἱ ἄπιστοι); 1 Th 1:7;
(οἱ) πιστεύσαντες (those) who made their commitment = (those) who became believers, (the) Christians, Ac 2:44 v.l.; 4:32; 2 Th 1:10a.

οἱ πεπιστευκότες [the ones having believed] those who became (and remained) believers Ac 19:18; 21:20.

c. A special kind of this faith is the confidence that God or Christ is in a position to help suppliants out of their distress, have confidence (some of the passages already mentioned might just as well be classified here) abs. ὡς ἐπίστευσας γενηθήτω σοι may it be done to you in accordance with the confidence you have Mt 8:13.
ὅσα ἂν αἰτήσητε πιστεύοντες whatever you pray for with confidence 21:22. Cp. Mk 5:36; 9:23f; Lk 8:50; 2 Cor 4:13a (Ps 115:1), b.

W. ὅτι foll.: πιστεύετε ὅτι δύναμαι τοῦτο ποιῆσαι; do you have confidence that I am able to do this? Mt 9:28.
—Mk 11:23.

3. entrust τινί τι someth. to someone τὸ ἀληθινὸν τίς ὑμῖν πιστεύσει; Lk 16:11.
αὐτόν [self] τινι [to someone] trust oneself to someone J 2:24.

—Pass. πιστεύομαί [I am entrusted] τι [with something].
ἐπιστεύθησαν [they were entrusted (with)] τὰ λόγια τοῦ θεοῦ [the sayings of God] Ro 3:2.
πεπίστευμαι τὸ εὐαγγέλιον Gal 2:7;
cp. 1 Th 2:4; 1 Ti 1:11.—Tit 1:3.
οἰκονομίαν [(a) dispensation] πεπίστευμαι [I have been entrusted with] 1 Cor 9:17;

4. be confident about, a unique use found in ὃς μὲν πιστεύει φαγεῖν πάντα, someth. like the one is confident about eating anything Ro 14:2 (a combination of two ideas: ‘the pers. is so strong in the faith’ and: ‘the pers. is convinced that it is permissible to eat anything’; in brief: not cultically fussy. Another probability is the sense

5. think/consider (possible), in Ro 14:2 perh. holds everything possible; cp. J 9:18 οὐκ ἐπίστευσαν they refused to entertain the possibility, and Ac 9:26.

 

[Atwood]

FAITH = PISTIS in NT

Someone is hung up on faith, arguing like there is one faith, as faith didn't have different meanings or that there were not different kinds of faith. The fact that Christians have one faith does not negate that other inferior faiths exist. So here is the standard Lexicon abridged (article too long)

πίστις, εως, ἡ (Hes., Hdt.+; ranging in meaning from subjective confidence to objective basis for confidence).


1. that which evokes trust and faith


a. the state of being someone in whom confidence can be placed, faithfulness, reliability, fidelity, commitment

w. κρίσις and ἔλεος Mt 23:23. (Opp. ἀπιστία )

τὴν πίστιν τοῦ θεοῦ καταργεῖν nullify the faithfulness/commitment of God

Ro 3:3. πᾶσαν π. ἐνδείκνυσθαι ἀγαθήν show all good faith(fulness) Tit 2:10

W. other virtues Gal 5:22 (on πίστις, πραΰτης cp. Sir 45:4; 1:27). W. ὑπομονή 2 Th 1:4. τὴν πίστιν τετήρηκα I have remained faithful or loyal (πίστιν τηρεῖν ) 2 Ti 4:7, though this would be classified by some under 3 below. S. also 1c below.


b. a solemn promise to be faithful and loyal, assurance, oath, troth

τὴν πρώτην πίστιν ἠθέτησαν 1 Ti 5:12 (s. also ἀθετέω 1 and cp. CIA app. [Wünsch, Praef. p. xv] of a woman who πρώτη ἠθέτησεν τὴν πίστιν to her husband). Cp. Rv 2:3.


c. a token offered as a guarantee of someth. promised, proof, pledge

πίστιν παρασχὼν πᾶσιν ἀναστήσας αὐτόν (God has appointed a man [Jesus] to be judge of the world, and) he has furnished proof (of his fitness for this office) to all people by raising him (on πίστιν παρέχειν cp. Jos.,) Ac 17:31.

2.state of believing on the basis of the reliability of the one trusted,trust, confidence, faith in the active sense=‘believing’, in ref. to deity

in our lit. directed toward God and Christ, their revelations, teachings, promises, their power and readiness to aid.


a. God: πίστις θεοῦ (cp. Jos., Ant. 17, 179.—Cp. π. καὶ φόβος ὁ τοῦ θεοῦ Theoph. Ant. 1, 7 [p. 72, 26]) faith, trust, confidence in God Mk 11:22; cp. Ac 19:20 D; 1 Cl 3:4; 27:3. π. θείου πνεύμαπος faith in the divine spirit Hm 11:9. ἡ π. τοῦ κυρίου s 6, 3, 6. π. (καὶ ἐλπὶς) εἰς θεόν 1 Pt 1:21. π. ἐπὶ θεόν Hb 6:1. ἡ πίστις ἡ πρὸς τὸν θεόν 1 Th 1:8 (on the constr. w. πρὸς τ. θ. cp. Philo, Abr. 268; 271; 273; Just., D. 121, 2 διὰ τὴν πρὸς τὸν ἥλιον π.)

—πίστις can also be characterized as faith in God by the context, without the addition of specific words; so in connection w. OT personalities: Abraham Ro 4:5, 9, 11–13, 16, 19f (s. also 2dα below); 1 Cl 10:7; 31:2; of Rahab 12:1, 8; of Esther 55:6 (ἡ τελεία κατὰ πίστιν). The OT heroes of faith Hb 11:4–33, 39 (w. this catalogue of heroes cp. Il. 4, 457–538; 2 Km 23:8–39; 1 Ch 11:10–12:18; CGordon, Homer, and the Bible: HUCA 26, ’55, 83).—But in Hb it is also true that God is specifically the object of the Christian’s faith, and Christ 12:2 is ὁ τῆς πίστεως ἀρχηγὸς καὶ τελειώτης. Cp. 10:38; 11:3; 13:7.

—ἐὰν ἔχητε πίστιν Mt 17:20. Opp. doubt 21:21. αἰτεῖν ἐν πίστει μηδὲν διακρινόμενος Js 1:6. ἡ εὐχὴ τῆς πίστεως 5:15 (εὐχή 1). ἡ πίστις τῆς ἐνεργείας τοῦ θεοῦ τοῦ ἐγείραντος αὐτὸν ἐκ νεκρῶν faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead Col 2:12.


b. Christ


α. of belief and trust in the Lord’s help in physical and spiritual distress; oft. in the synopt. gospels: Mt 8:10; 9:2, 22, 29 (κατὰ τὴν πίστιν ὑμῶν); 15:28; Mk 2:5; 4:40; 5:34; 10:52; Lk 5:20; 7:9, 50; 8:25, 48; 17:19; 18:42.—Cp. ἔχει πίστιν τοῦ σωθῆναι (the lame man) had faith that he would be cured Ac 14:9.


β. of faith in Christ, designated by the addition of certain words. By the obj. gen.

(s. Just., D. 52, 4 διὰ τῆς πίστεως τῆς τοῦ χριστοῦ) πίστις Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ faith in Jesus Christ (and sim. exprs. On interp. as obj. gen. s. AHultgren, NovT 22, ’80, 248–63 [lit.]; response SWilliams, CBQ 49, ’87, 431–47.)

Ro 3:22, 26; Gal 2:16ab, 20; 3:22; Eph 3:12; Phil 3:9a; Js 2:1; Rv 14:12; cp. 2:13 (ἡ πίστις μου=faith in me, the Human One [Son of Man]); IMg 1:1.

—By prepositional phrases: πίστις εἰς Χριστόν (and sim. exprs.) faith in Christ Ac 20:21; 24:24; 26:18; Col 2:5 (Just., D. 40, 1).—Also πίστις ἐν Χριστῷ (and sim.) Gal 3:26; Eph 1:15; Col 1:4; 1 Ti 3:13; 2 Ti 3:15; 1 Cl 22:1. In ἱλαστήριον διὰ πίστεως ἐν τῷ αὐτοῦ αἵματι Ro 3:25, ἐν κτλ. prob. goes not w. πίστις, but w. ἱλαστήριον (s. Ltzm., Hdb. ad loc.; W-S. §20, 5d).

—πίστις, ἣν ἔχεις πρὸς τ. κύριον Ἰησοῦν Phlm 5.

—πίστις διὰ τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰ. Χριστοῦ Ac 20:21 D;
sim. ἡ πίστις ἡ δι᾿ αὐτοῦ 3:16b (cp. 1 Pt 1:21).



c. πίστις can also be characterized by an objective gen. of the thing: ἡ πίστις τοῦ ὀνόματος αὐτοῦ faith in his (Jesus’) name Ac 3:16a. ἡ πίστις τοῦ εὐαγγελίου Phil 1:27. εὐαγγελίων πίστις Dg 11:6. πίστις ἀληθείας 2 Th 2:13.

d. πίστις is found mostly without an obj., faith, firm commitment

α. as true piety, genuine devotion (Sextus 7a and 7; ParJer 6:7), which for our lit. means being a Christian (τὸ ἀληθινὸν πάσχα . . . πίστει νονούμενον Hippol., Ref. 8, 18, 1; Did., Gen. 54, 11) Lk 18:8 (s. Jülicher, Gleichn. 288); 22:32; Ac 6:5=vs. 8 v.l.; cp. 11:24.—6:7; 13:8; 14:22; 15:9; 16:5; Ro 1:5, 8, 12, 17ab

17c (here and in Gal 3:11 the LXX of Hab 2:4 is not followed literally, since it has ἐκ πίστεώς μου=‘as a result of my faithfulness’; even in Hb 10:38, where μου does occur, it goes w. δίκαιος, not w. πίστεως); Ro 3:27f (Luther’s addition of the word ‘alone’ in vs. 28 is hard to contest linguistically.

12:3, 6 (s. ἀναλογία; for a difft. view 3 below); 14:1, 22 (s. ἐνώπιον 2b; others would place in 2dε), 23ab (but s. ε below);

16:26; 1 Cor 2:5; 15:14, 17; 16:13; 2 Cor 1:24ab; 4:13; 10:15; 13:5; Gal 3:7–26; 5:5, 6 (s. ἐνεργέω 1b); 6:10 (οἱ οἰκεῖοι τῆς πίστεως, s. οἰκεῖος b); Eph 2:8; 3:17; 4:5, 13; 6:16; Phil 1:25 (χαρὰ τῆς πίστεως); 2:17; 3:9b; Col 1:23; 2:7; 1 Th 3:2, 5, 7, 10; 2 Th 1:3, 11; 3:2; 1 Ti 1:2, 4, 5 (π. ἀνυπόκριτος), 19ab; 4:1; 5:8; 6:10, 12, 21 (but s. 3 below); 2 Ti 1:5 (ἀνυπόκριτος π.); 2:18; 3:8; Tit 1:1, 4, 13; 3:15; Phlm 6 (s. κοινωνία 4); Hb 6:12; 10:22, 39 (opp. ὑποστολή); Js 1:3; 2:5; 1 Pt 1:5, 7, 9; 5:9; 2 Pt 1:1; 1J 5:4; 1 Cl 1:2 (ἡ πανάρετος κ. βεβαία π.); ISm 1:1 (ἀκίνητος π.); Hm 5, 2, 1; 12, 5, 4 (both πλήρης ἐν τῇ πίστει full of faith); 5, 2, 3 (π. ὁλόκληρος); 9:6 (ὁλοτελὴς ἐν τ. π.), 7 (opp. διψυχία), 12 (π. ἡ ἔχουσα δύναμιν);

—τὸ ῥῆμα τ. πίστεως Ro 10:8. οἱ λόγοι τῆς π. 1 Ti 4:6. τὸ μυστήριον τῆς π. 3:9. ὁ θεὸς ἤνοιξεν τοῖς ἔθνεσιν θύραν πίστεως God has opened the door of faith to the Gentiles, i.e. opened the way for them to participate in a new relationship w. God Ac 14:27 (s. also θύρα 1bγ). ἀκοὴ πίστεως Gal 3:2, 5 (s. ἀκοή 2 and 4b). (τὸ) ἔργον (τῆς) π. 1 Th 1:3; 2 Th 1:11 (s. ἔργον 1b). οἱ ἐκ πίστεως the people of faith (s. ἐκ 3b) Gal 3:7, 9. πῶς οὐν [πίστιν εὑρ]ίσκομεν; Ox 1081, {p. 820} 25f (but here [ταῦτα γιγν]ώσκομεν is the preferable restoration w. Till after the Coptic SJCh 90, 2); 32.

—If the principal component of Christianity is faith, then π. can be understood as the Gospel in terms of the commitment it evokes (cp. SIG 932, 7 [II/I BC]) νῦν εὐαγγελίζεται τὴν πίστιν ἥν ποτε ἐπόρθει Gal 1:23 (s. 3 below). Perh. also Ro 1:5.

β. Hb 11:1 defines πίστις as ἐλπιζομένων ὑπόστασις, πραγμάτων ἔλεγχος οὐ βλεπομένων. There is here no qu. about the mng. of π. as confidence or assurance (s. 2a above), but on its relation to ὑπόστασις as its predication s. under that word.

—(Ps.-Aristot., De Mundo 6, 18 interprets πιστεύειν in someth. as incapability to see someth. that is apparent only to God.) Paul contrasts walking διὰ εἴδους (εἶδος 3) as the lower degree, with διὰ πίστεως περιπατεῖν 2 Cor 5:7

On the other hand πίστις is on a higher level than merely listening to Christian preaching Hb 4:2.


γ. πίστις abs., as a Christian virtue, is often coupled w. others of the same kind,

esp. oft. w. ἀγάπη: 1 Th 3:6; 5:8; 1 Ti 1:14; 2 Ti 1:13; Phlm 5; B 11:8; IEph 1:1; 9:1; 14:1; 20:1; IMg 1:2; 13:1; IRo ins; ISm ins; 6:1; 13:2; AcPl Ha 8, 35.

W. ἀγάπη and other abstracts 2 Cor 8:7; Gal 5:22; Eph 6:23; 1 Ti 2:15; 4:12; 6:11: 2 Ti 2:22; 3:10; Tit 2:2; Rv 2:19; IPhld 11:2; Pol 4:2; Hm 8:9; cp. v 3, 8, 2–5. The triad πίστις, ἐλπίς, ἀγάπη 1 Cor 13:13; cp. also Col 1:4f; 1 Th 1:3; 5:8; B 1:4 (on this triad see s.v. ἀγάπη 1aα). W. ἐλπίς only (cp. 1 Pt 1:21) 1 Cl 58:2. The ζωῆς ἐλπίς is called ἀρχὴ καὶ τέλος πίστεως ἡμῶν B 1:6.

—W. ἀλήθεια (TestLevi 8:2) 1 Ti 2:7 (cp. the combination POxy 70, 4f [III AD]); 1 Cl 60:4. W. δικαιοσύνη Pol 9:2. W. ὑπομονή Rv 13:10; w. ὑπομ. and other abstracts 2 Pt 1:5f; Pol 13:2 (cp. also the following passages already referred to in this section: 1 Ti 6:11; 2 Ti 3:10; Tit 2:2 and Js 1:3 [α above]). W. γνῶσις (Just., D. 69, 1) et al. 2 Pt 1:5f [s. above]; D 10:2. ἵνα μετὰ τῆς πίστεως ὑμῶν τελείαν ἔχητε τὴν γνῶσιν B 1:5. W. φόβος and ἐγκράτεια Hm 6, 1, 1.

δ.faith as fidelity to Christian teaching. This point of view calls for ἔργα as well as the kind of πίστις that represents only one side of true piety: Js 2:14ab, 17, 18abc, 20, 22ab, 24, 26 (ἔργον 1a); Hv 3, 6, 5; s 8, 9, 1ab.


ε. Ro 14:22 and 23 π. as freedom or strength in faith, conviction (s. Ltzm., Hdb. ad loc.; but s. α above).


ζ. In addition to the πίστις that every Christian possesses (s. 2dα above) Paul speaks of a special gift of faith that belongs to a select few 1 Cor 12:9. Here he understands π. as an unquestioning belief in God’s power to aid people with miracles, the faith that ‘moves mountains’ 13:2 (cp. Mt 17:20.—21:21; s. 2a above).

This special kind of faith may be what the disciples had in mind when they asked πρόσθες ἡμῖν πίστιν Lk 17:5; cp. vs. 6. τῇ πίστει φερόμενος ὁ Παυλος AcPl Ha 5, 1.


3. that which is believed, body of faith/belief/teaching (Diod. S. 1, 23, 8 ἰσχυρὰν πίστιν καὶ ἀμετάθετον=an article of faith that was firm and unshakable [concerning Orpheus and Dionysus]; Mel., HE 4, 26, 13; Ath. 8, 1; Iren., 1, 10, 2 [Harv. I, 92, 1]; Orig., C. Cels., 1, 42, 26; Did., Gen. 156, 23). So clearly Jd 3 (τῇ ἅπαξ παραδοθείσῃ τοῖς ἁγίοις πίστει), 20 (τῇ ἁγιωτάτῃ ὑμῶν πίστει.—ἅγιος 1aα). πίστις θεοῦ=that which, acc. to God’s will, is to be believed IEph 16:2.

—This objectivizing of the term πίστις is found as early as Paul: Ro 1:5; Gal 1:23 (s. 2dα end) and perh. Gal 3:23–25 (s. Ltzm., Hdb. ad loc.). ASeeberg, D. Katechismus der Urchristenheit 1903, 110f, understands 1 Ti 1:19; 4:1, 6; 6:10, cp. 21; 2 Ti 2:18 in this manner. Ro 12:6 (but s. ἀναλογία) and 2 Ti 4:7 are also interpreted in this way by many

 

[homwardbound]

a half truth is a lie so put in the other half this is wickedness
Colossians 1:22-23

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]22 [/SUP]In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;


there is no presentation for you if you don't continue in the faith and you must be grounded and settled and not moved away.

Oh, okay then and Christ thus came for us in vain and is not risen, did not take away the sins in Fathers' sight for us to be given the gift of new life in the resurrected Christ is that you are saying here?

Well Christ is perfect and the only one ever from Adam on to this very day still, and n o one else can match this, since Christ is the only one born of the Virgin Mary

The First Chosen chose not to beleive and the Gospel came to us by Faith without works where the Jews sought it by works and did not get life. where as those that believed and believe God at God's mercy they have received from God are alive in Spirit and truth, self is dead with Chirst at Christ's death

Anyway, it seems to be you might not be at rest yet and the truth that is to set one free has not yet set you free
Or has it? If has then you do not have any luggage holding you down, no bondage keeping you from God as in any sin that you think separates you from God as maybe lust of this world. As trhis world has done a great job in deception as if God is a tyrant and not Merciful, when this world is the tyrant

 

[homwardbound]

You allude to an all to common problem.

The isolating of select Bible verses absent of their true context.

Read it i context from verse 1, glad to go over it context, to help us all in truth that releases us from error that keeps one in bondage and just can't love as God, because of their own unredeemed flesh that they refuse to be dead to

 

[Atwood]

ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM: NOT BEAN-COUNTING

"giving diligence to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as also ye were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in all. " - Eph 4


"I may hear of your state, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one soul striving for the faith of the gospel;" - Philip 1

Surely no one is so obtuse as to argue from Philip 1 that all Christians have only 1 spirit and only 1 soul; claiming that the word one (heis, mia, hen) means 1, so we don't have individual spirits. That would tend towards heretical monism, pantheism.

But in neither Eph 4 nor Philip 1 is the writer counting beans, looks around and saying, lets look and count'em: how many faiths do we find, how many baptisms, how many spirits, how many souls. The meaning is that Christians have one and the same faith, baptism, and Lord. Christian should be unified in conduct.

Christians have one and the same faith. We all trust the Lord Jesus and believe He is God and man. We all have a common baptism. But in point of fact scripture distinguishes water baptism from Spirit baptism (John the baptist baptized with water, but the Lord Jesus with the Holy Spirit; also in Rom 6 there is a baptism into Christ, and His death on the cross was a baptism, about which some were asked if they were able to have that baptism.

And in point of fact there is a belief in facts, which is not something Christians only have, as their faith in Christ is only theirs. Demons and the unsaved also believe true facts (along with delusions). The faith that says, "I believe that God is One and a Trinity," is not saving faith, but factual faith. There is also a spiritual gift of faith which only some Christians have. If someone says, "I believe in Jesus," but continually acts like the devil, such a person may have a factual faith on who Jesus is, but He has never trusted in Him as His Savior. You cannot be saved without being saved.

Eph 2


but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.


You can argue all day about what faith is, but it is clear
1) Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved,
and
2) There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.

I know Whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which He has committed to me against that day.