Is a Two State Solution the Answer for the US?

[Billyd]

90% of the world's wealth is controlled by less than 1% of the world's population. Is that good or bad? I'll leave that to you.

Over 50% of the population of the United States depends on the United States Government for some part of their income. What does that tell you?

Now for the meat of our problem.

Today less than 10% of the population of the United States will attend worship services, yet more than 80% claim to be Christian.

Of those attending a worship service, less than half do so as a family unit.

Of those attending a worship service, fewer than 10% will remember what they talked about by Friday. More than 50% forgot what leader's topic was after lunch.

The most important fact is that over 50% will never speak to a lost person about Christ, and less than 10% will ever lead a single person to Christ.

We may have a corrupt government, but what do we expect when have a lost electorate.

A two state solution. No! What we need is a one God solution.

Would you like to see real change? There is a four step solution found in 2 Chronicles 7:14, "if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land."

 

[Oncefallen]

This is true.

I think we need another field on our tax forms for the socialists/progressives who claim they want higher taxes.
If they want to pay more, then check the box that says..."I want to give more money".

Why legislate higher taxes on all, when half of the population claims they're more than willing to chip in?

I think Mike Huckabee said they tried something like this in Arkansas when he was governor. Very few sent in extra money.

The only people that I know that are proponents of raising taxes fall into the category of those who do not pay ANY taxes. In other words, raise everyone else's taxes so that I can continue to not pay any. 100% of US personal income taxes are paid by 50% of the people.

I have no problem with the poor and destitute paying no taxes, but with the current tax code a huge number of families not only pay nothing in taxes, but their refund at tax time by far exceeds what they payed in in payroll deductions. My retired parents who are far from destitute (they have the money to travel extensively) have to play with their return at tax time to keep from getting back more than what they paid in.

 

[wisebeardman]

The only people that I know that are proponents of raising taxes fall into the category of those who do not pay ANY taxes. In other words, raise everyone else's taxes so that I can continue to not pay any. 100% of US personal income taxes are paid by 50% of the people.

I have no problem with the poor and destitute paying no taxes, but with the current tax code a huge number of families not only pay nothing in taxes, but their refund at tax time by far exceeds what they payed in in payroll deductions. My retired parents who are far from destitute (they have the money to travel extensively) have to play with their return at tax time to keep from getting back more than what they paid in.

Quite frank I have NEVER liked the fact some get by scott free on taxes just cause they make under a certain amount.. if we are to have any taxes, then EVERYONE should have to pay. And it should be in the form of the Fed sales tax. Any "new" goods are taxed at 20% don't want taxed then don't buy new stuff. I would even put the FST on fast food, restaurants, ect.

 

[SonInMe]

why tax rich people?

 

[Oncefallen]

Quite frank I have NEVER liked the fact some get by scott free on taxes just cause they make under a certain amount.. if we are to have any taxes, then EVERYONE should have to pay. And it should be in the form of the Fed sales tax. Any "new" goods are taxed at 20% don't want taxed then don't buy new stuff. I would even put the FST on fast food, restaurants, ect.

As stated in my prior post, I don't have an issue with those under a given income level not paying income taxes, but to say they get off scott free is kind of a fallacy IMO. They still pay some taxes via fuel taxes, vehicle registration fees, taxes on utilities, etc.

As far as income tax reform, I've always been a proponent of the flat tax as opposed to the FST. In the flat tax everyone pays a set percentage of their income. It completely eradicates the hundreds of volumes of US tax code and removes all the loopholes that the more affluent can use to get around taxation and at the same time would greatly reduce the tax burden on many people. I believe estimates are that setting the flat tax at 10% (lower than many of us pay) would actually increase Federal revenue.

Granted the FST would also eradicate the voluminous tax code, but would actually place an unfair burden on the lower class since a considerably larger percentage of the lower class' income is spent out of necessity. Of course the FST does have a positive side in that it could potentially encourage persons to save money (if you don't spend it, it doesn't get taxed), and it also would encompass those who earn money "off the books" (persons who work under the table, or those in black market industries).

 

[PennEd]

I'd rather see America ground into dust than to tear itself in two.

I'd rather see this country break into many parts than remain as it is or ground into dust. You sound like the woman who stole the baby and wanted it killed rather than give it up before Solomon.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

I'd rather see this country break into many parts than remain as it is or ground into dust. You sound like the woman who stole the baby and wanted it killed rather than give it up before Solomon.

Nay, for I'd rather see this nation remain whole or to be a nation not at all. We are the dust. It would be better that this nation be totally eliminated than for it to be torn in two.

 

[Drett]

No one is occupying someone else. Creating two states just means you have twice as many leaders as before. More snouts in the trough.

 

[p_rehbein]

That's why we fight powers and principalities.

On a second note:
I thought all states are Sovereign, and we CHOOSE to work together as a Nation.
When that doesn't work...a state CHOOSES to secede from the Union.
If one state can secede from the union...so can 50.
Bada Boom...we have our country back.

the Original Intent of the Founding Fathers who wrote The Constitution is that States would be Sovereign ........... however, given the Constitutional Power Grab by the Federal Government for the last 60 years...........this is really no longer the case in my opinion...........and I think recent events have proved that out.............

 

[p_rehbein]

to see where it would lead............ 'possibly another "civil war."

No, NOT THE INTENT OF THIS THREAD...........to promote Revolution or such...........possibly "Civil Discourse" which is just fine. Rather this thread is opening the IDEA of ALL AMERICANS discussing the Legal and Peaceful concept of a Two State Solution.

 

[wisebeardman]

No, NOT THE INTENT OF THIS THREAD...........to promote Revolution or such...........possibly "Civil Discourse" which is just fine. Rather this thread is opening the IDEA of ALL AMERICANS discussing the Legal and Peaceful concept of a Two State Solution.

prob is biscut is right in a way... Lets say our sane "red" states got tired of the "blue" trying to dictate our way of life here and we said no more we are done we are no longer part of the USA.. the "blue" would use the gun to push us back together.. thus we would fight civil war.

 

[p_rehbein]

But they are also forcing their will on the states thru the power of the purse. They are overburdening us with taxes and have completely overstepped their constitutional authority in almost every area. Not to mention given the fed complete authority over our monetary and banking system.

Agreed..........the Federal Purse Strings is how they have seized power over the States who were suppose to be Sovereign......

But, the States ARE ALSO to blame FOR ACCEPTING Federal Dollars.............sigh.........problem is........at the State Level, we have the same two party cronies as we do at the Federal Level.

 

[p_rehbein]

Re: Two State Solution is Nonsense; there already are 2 states

What you mean is a 3 state solution.

There used to be a territory called the Palestinian Mandate under the British rule. 2 States were carved out of it: The largest piece went to Jordan, a Palestinian State. The smaller part went to the new nation of Israel. There are 2 states already.

Now, Israel got the smaller half. So what then? Should they divide the small half and make a 3rd state, now 2 Palestinian States? And what then, take Israel's share and cut it again, now having 4 states?

IMHO:

Whatever Israel gives up, Moslems would want half of the half. Then half of the half of the half. Then half of the half of the half of the half. And this would continue until Israel had nothing but some waves in the Mediterranean, which waves the Moslems would claim as their economic zone also.

This whole thing is nonsense.

In Ezekiel's prophecy of the future territory of Israel, there is nothing on the East side of Jordan. So let the Moslems be satisfied with that -- of course they won't, they demand the whole earth! Cut off your head if you oppose.

You do realize we are speaking of the United States, not Israel?

 

[p_rehbein]

Taxation is a problem not because the government needs more money but that the government spends 1.3 dollars for every dollar it collects. Taxes are niot the problem, spending is.

Spending is a problem because we are becoming a nation of people who think they get free stuff. Its immoral and irresponsible.

I know no one likes this but charity needs to be rare or it becomes a lifestyle. Its human nature. The more charity we have the more people who will want it. More charity creates in several ways, more poverty.

No one gives to the government. If you do not pay taxes they force you to.

Its not ideology, its integrity. Integrity is learned and usually, because of our fallen nature, integrity comes when we survive tragedy.

The liberals know that so they provide safety nets, so people do not struggle and they do not learn integrity.

We must also recognise that the enemy, liberalism, has an easier sell. Integrity does not sell well and charity does ( even though in reality liberalism is absolutely nothing about helping people ).

Liberalism ''wins'' because it makes those who believe in it think they are charitable...and have to do nothing to be so.

This presidency has proved a few things...

the media is liberal

republicans are afraid of liberals.

I think its time conservatives stood up and called a spade a spade ( yes I used that term, its time we took back our language as well and not walk on eggshells worrying someone will call us a racist if we disgree with the socialist marxism ruining our nation )

Grow a pair. Get in there and start supporting the conservative ideals that made this nation great or as a party, the republicans will die.

Your comments (not saying right or wrong) go a very long way to justifying my thesis that the divide in this Country can not be bridged by the present Two Party Political System, and our Current Government.

 

[p_rehbein]

90% of the world's wealth is controlled by less than 1% of the world's population. Is that good or bad? I'll leave that to you.

Over 50% of the population of the United States depends on the United States Government for some part of their income. What does that tell you?

Now for the meat of our problem.

Today less than 10% of the population of the United States will attend worship services, yet more than 80% claim to be Christian.

Of those attending a worship service, less than half do so as a family unit.

Of those attending a worship service, fewer than 10% will remember what they talked about by Friday. More than 50% forgot what leader's topic was after lunch.

The most important fact is that over 50% will never speak to a lost person about Christ, and less than 10% will ever lead a single person to Christ.

We may have a corrupt government, but what do we expect when have a lost electorate.

A two state solution. No! What we need is a one God solution.

Would you like to see real change? There is a four step solution found in 2 Chronicles 7:14, "if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land."

I agree...........and your comments (as well) point out the great divide that our Nation suffers from.......for there is NO WAY the current political power calling itself the Democrat Party WILL EVER give ear to the idea of Christian values entering into the Governing of our Nation.

Just a personal point............I DO NOT consider the current power brokers on the left to be Democrats......rather I believe them to be Socialist Liberals who masquerade AS DEMOCRATS for they KNOW if they reveal their true identity to the Nation, they will be tossed out quicker than a rotten egg in the Fridge........

They seized control of the Democrat Party and turned it into the Socialist Liberal Party...........

 

[p_rehbein]

why tax rich people?

Same reason you tax anyone else...................EVERYONE in America SHOULD HAVE some "skin in the game." It is the only fair way to approach taxation in my opinion.

This does not mean it has to be at the same percentile for everyone.............in my opinion, there is wiggle room for that.

HOWEVER, we are discussing a Two State Solution..........not the Federal Tax Codes

 

[GodIsSalvation]

A Two State "Solution" is not a solution, it's simply a whole new problem.

If this be One Nation under God then let it be One Nation. If it is not then let the Rock fall upon it and grind it into dust.

 

[p_rehbein]

Nay, for I'd rather see this nation remain whole or to be a nation not at all. We are the dust. It would be better that this nation be totally eliminated than for it to be torn in two.

No one is speaking of being "torn" in two............which suggests violent actions............just saying.......

There is PRECEDENT for this idea............the State of Marriage comes to mind........as well as in the Business Sector, and with Stocks...........and other areas where things reach a point that a "split" becomes the best possible solution.

 

[p_rehbein]

prob is biscut is right in a way... Lets say our sane "red" states got tired of the "blue" trying to dictate our way of life here and we said no more we are done we are no longer part of the USA.. the "blue" would use the gun to push us back together.. thus we would fight civil war.

Sorry, I'm not following your logic here............and again, not suggesting violent action needed..........

 

[GodIsSalvation]

No one is speaking of being "torn" in two............which suggests violent actions............just saying.......

There is PRECEDENT for this idea............the State of Marriage comes to mind........as well as in the Business Sector, and with Stocks...........and other areas where things reach a point that a "split" becomes the best possible solution.

A Two State Theory is tearing the nation in two, very literally. And yes there will be violence on an epic scale if you attempt such a thing. This has all ready been tried before.