Salvation Not Possible Without Works
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So it is possible for one to be saved and not obey making one disobedient due to lack of faith therefore being reverted back to being unsaved....in essence.....
One has to believe to the end to be saved....But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
One has to believe to the end to be saved....But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
The verse speaks of two groups;
1- them that draw back unto perdition
2 -them that believe
So the verse does say there are those that have drawn back unto perdition, ie, lost salvation.
The verse speaks of two groups;
1- them that draw back unto perdition
2 -them that believe
So the verse does say there are those that have drawn back unto perdition, ie, lost salvation.
E
Nice try.
We (those born of God) are not of those who fall back into perdition.
They fell back because they were never saved in the first place. We are not of those.
It is like John said, We have been born of God and can not sin. those who fall back. Have never been part of us, If they were truly of us (saved) they never would have walked away..
We (those born of God) are not of those who fall back into perdition.
They fell back because they were never saved in the first place. We are not of those.
It is like John said, We have been born of God and can not sin. those who fall back. Have never been part of us, If they were truly of us (saved) they never would have walked away..
E
yeah. and? it does not mean they were EVER SAVED.
Scripture can not contradict.
Paul said if WE SIN. Then he said BUT WE ARE NOT THOSE WHO FALL BACK.
he is talking about those who came to the church, and out of the world (in experience only, not in true saving faith) and FELL BACK.
but I guess you are to unable to let go of self and your good works to realise this.. You have to earn it. or else it is not real. Don;t feel bad. thats the typical human response. That is why it is so hard. and why the gate is so straight and narrow. and hard to get in. because one has to completely deny self.
Scripture can not contradict.
Paul said if WE SIN. Then he said BUT WE ARE NOT THOSE WHO FALL BACK.
he is talking about those who came to the church, and out of the world (in experience only, not in true saving faith) and FELL BACK.
but I guess you are to unable to let go of self and your good works to realise this.. You have to earn it. or else it is not real. Don;t feel bad. thats the typical human response. That is why it is so hard. and why the gate is so straight and narrow. and hard to get in. because one has to completely deny self.
K
"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. " Ephesians 2:10
True life in Christ produces works by the Spirit and not by human effort, which is why James said this...
"But someone will say, 'You have faith, and I have works.' Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works." James 2:18
The word of God speaks for itself. It is intended to. We must take it as a whole or else it will seem to contradict itself.
"Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position." 2 Peter 3:17
"See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God." Hebrews 3:12
As it is said above, brother and sister in Christ can develop a sinful unbelieving heart. Which means they are cleansed from past sins and again become entangled in them.
"If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning." 2 Peter 2:20
There are many more, perhaps I will post them later.
Let God be True and every man a liar.
Those who have ears let them hear.
with Christ Love,
Kate
True life in Christ produces works by the Spirit and not by human effort, which is why James said this...
"But someone will say, 'You have faith, and I have works.' Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works." James 2:18
The word of God speaks for itself. It is intended to. We must take it as a whole or else it will seem to contradict itself.
"Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position." 2 Peter 3:17
"See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God." Hebrews 3:12
As it is said above, brother and sister in Christ can develop a sinful unbelieving heart. Which means they are cleansed from past sins and again become entangled in them.
"If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning." 2 Peter 2:20
There are many more, perhaps I will post them later.
Let God be True and every man a liar.
Those who have ears let them hear.
with Christ Love,
Kate
and there starts the cycle again...where are they drawing back from? if it were not so then the whole world is saved , you make up a condition that is not in scripture to facilitate your doctrine (true faith)...we are saved by grace...through faith...grace does not fail.....your faith can....remember Peter on the water?...
I know you are going to say Christ was there to keep him up..and I agree...
but two things you have to consider Peter said bid me come and walked on the water, when he doubted and started to sink he cried out Lord save me...
[SUP]60 [/SUP]Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
[SUP]61 [/SUP]When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
[SUP]62 [/SUP]What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
[SUP]63 [/SUP]It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
[SUP]64 [/SUP]But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
[SUP]65 [/SUP]And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
[SUP]66 [/SUP]From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
[SUP]67 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? (free choice)
[SUP]68 [/SUP]Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
[SUP]69 [/SUP]And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
the disciples who walked away made their choice Peter made his choice..we have to make our choice...
I know you are going to say Christ was there to keep him up..and I agree...
but two things you have to consider Peter said bid me come and walked on the water, when he doubted and started to sink he cried out Lord save me...
[SUP]60 [/SUP]Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
[SUP]61 [/SUP]When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
[SUP]62 [/SUP]What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
[SUP]63 [/SUP]It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
[SUP]64 [/SUP]But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
[SUP]65 [/SUP]And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
[SUP]66 [/SUP]From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
[SUP]67 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? (free choice)
[SUP]68 [/SUP]Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
[SUP]69 [/SUP]And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
the disciples who walked away made their choice Peter made his choice..we have to make our choice...
E
Nah.. They were living a fake christian life like so many do. They most likely were even blessed by association with other believers. And well on their way to finding saving faith. But their old life kept tugging on them. Because that is what they wanted more. They had no faith in God. At best. mere belief. But as james said, mere belief will never save you. And as John said, Those saved will never leave.
Good luck with your works. I will continue to trust Christ knowing I am helpless.
Good luck with your works. I will continue to trust Christ knowing I am helpless.
No doubt as well as not worthy and that is why Jesus gets all the Glory!...Those who are sick know that they need a doctor....the self-righteous Pharisees bragged about, and pointed to works as the way to heaven and Jesus said there were white washed coffins who make disciples who are two fold the children of hell!
E
It would only be logical if the rest of scripture agreed, It does not.
Human logic has been shown, And is spoken of in scripture as fools logic (professing to be wise they became fools)
Nah. I have been out of perdition for while now. I have been born of God and can not fall back into sin as John says, And
I have been saved by grace through my total trust in the work of God (faith)
God has produced many works in me, Because I trust him, I am not saved by my works. that would make me merit a gift which is impossible. And mocks the love and honor of God.
I could never work enough to earn the gift God paid for with his own blood. You evidently think you can. Oh how that Mocks God. I feel sorry for you!
Human logic has been shown, And is spoken of in scripture as fools logic (professing to be wise they became fools)
Nah. I have been out of perdition for while now. I have been born of God and can not fall back into sin as John says, And
I have been saved by grace through my total trust in the work of God (faith)
God has produced many works in me, Because I trust him, I am not saved by my works. that would make me merit a gift which is impossible. And mocks the love and honor of God.
I could never work enough to earn the gift God paid for with his own blood. You evidently think you can. Oh how that Mocks God. I feel sorry for you!