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Salvation Not Possible Without Works
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This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
well seem like you did nor see it either because you are helpless
...what hinders you from using the power that God Gave you
Glad you are seeing today one more...
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
you see never fall in there ... guess what happens to those who don't do these things
Glad you are seeing today one more...
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
you see never fall in there ... guess what happens to those who don't do these things
First of all it is the book of REVELATION as it is the REVELATION of JESUS as GOD....
Second, Revelation chapter 20 and the DEAD is indicative of the GREAT WHITE THRONE judgment of the LOST who are to be cast into the lake of fire.....
The saints are judged and REWARDED at the judgment seat of CHRIST at the resurrection/change which takes place BEFORE...like 1000 YEARS before the Great White Throne Judgment
Kenneth..do you even study or what!
Second, Revelation chapter 20 and the DEAD is indicative of the GREAT WHITE THRONE judgment of the LOST who are to be cast into the lake of fire.....
The saints are judged and REWARDED at the judgment seat of CHRIST at the resurrection/change which takes place BEFORE...like 1000 YEARS before the Great White Throne Judgment
Kenneth..do you even study or what!
K
The word speaks for itself. It says you will no a man by his fruit. One walking in step with the Spirit is going to have evidence of a life in Christ. Compelled by God to do His work and walking as Jesus walked, completely one with the Father and only about His business.
Everyone will always argue the point of the thief on the cross, but the Lord new his heart and as it is in scripture it seems a very rare circumstance that one truly repents after a life sown to the sinful nature....but still impossible.
Everyone will always argue the point of the thief on the cross, but the Lord new his heart and as it is in scripture it seems a very rare circumstance that one truly repents after a life sown to the sinful nature....but still impossible.
E
I depend solely on the power of God to save me.
I have no power of myself. which is why I can't do a thing to even help save myself
What happens?
They believe salvation can be lost. That the power of God is not sufficient to save them completely and wholely and keep them saved, in spite of their weaknesses.
E
Um, Hate to break it to ya bud. But only those who are dead to Christ and awaiting this judgment in hades are at this judgment.
Death and hades are delivered to him. Jesus said in John 6. and other places (also paul says many times) those who are alive in Christ will not be delivered to Christ. Christ himself will come get us.
Also note. EVERYONE at that judgment is cast into hell. If you make it to that judgment, it is too late.
And yes they are judged for their work (not sin) and how well did those works save them? they were insufficient, why? Our works can NEVER SAVE US.
Death and hades are delivered to him. Jesus said in John 6. and other places (also paul says many times) those who are alive in Christ will not be delivered to Christ. Christ himself will come get us.
Also note. EVERYONE at that judgment is cast into hell. If you make it to that judgment, it is too late.
And yes they are judged for their work (not sin) and how well did those works save them? they were insufficient, why? Our works can NEVER SAVE US.
K
Newbirth,
As I said it is the Spirit that does works. That is why James said,
"But someone will say, 'You have faith, and I have works.' Show me your faithwithout your works, and I will show you my faith by my works." James 2:18
This is the very thing going on in this thread. Your saying by works, others by faith, does no one see how these work hand in hand? The word of God says that we are saved by grace through faith. It is Gods grace that we can even be saved to begin with and even be able to call on Him. When we call on Him and ask for the Holy Spirit then we begin to walk by faith. Being a willing empty vessel fit for His use. Christ's Spirit working in us and through us to speed Christ's coming.
It takes no human effort to follow Christ.
"11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”[f]
16It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”[g] 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden."
Romans 9:11-18
As I said it is the Spirit that does works. That is why James said,
"But someone will say, 'You have faith, and I have works.' Show me your faithwithout your works, and I will show you my faith by my works." James 2:18
This is the very thing going on in this thread. Your saying by works, others by faith, does no one see how these work hand in hand? The word of God says that we are saved by grace through faith. It is Gods grace that we can even be saved to begin with and even be able to call on Him. When we call on Him and ask for the Holy Spirit then we begin to walk by faith. Being a willing empty vessel fit for His use. Christ's Spirit working in us and through us to speed Christ's coming.
It takes no human effort to follow Christ.
"11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”[f]
16It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”[g] 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden."
Romans 9:11-18
forget what they believe ....what do you believe?...You believe you have no power..,God gave you power...
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Have you not received him? Do you not believe on his name...God gave you power to become a son and you are telling him. No Father I can't do it you have to do it for me ,you have to walk for me I am lame...You don't depend on the power of God...you want God himself to come and do what you are supposed to do.
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Have you not received him? Do you not believe on his name...God gave you power to become a son and you are telling him. No Father I can't do it you have to do it for me ,you have to walk for me I am lame...You don't depend on the power of God...you want God himself to come and do what you are supposed to do.
K
This is not just the ones dead to Christ. This is everyone and talks about the Book of Life being opened and every one was judged according to their works, if your works were good you are in the book of life, if your works were bad you faced hell fire...the second death. Read the start of verse 11, it states all of earth and heaven fled away but there was nowhere to go for all had to stand in front of the judgment seat.
K
We must remember though as Apostle Paul taught, we still can chose to go the wrong direction and let sin have dominion over our life again. The Holy Spirit is our guide, not a controller. He does not control ones actions unless that person lets Him.
He directs us, but Paul said we can chose to ignore and not listen to that and warns us if we fall back to the world.
He directs us, but Paul said we can chose to ignore and not listen to that and warns us if we fall back to the world.
E
Scripture is clear..
Then death and hades were DELIEVERED TO CHRIST.
Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire.
Everyone at that judgment will be cast to hell.
But that is not for the children of God.
Jesus says, "I will RAISE you on the last day"
Paul says, God will come and we will meat him in the air. and there will be with him forever.
Does not sound like being "delivered to Christ" to me..
Then death and hades were DELIEVERED TO CHRIST.
Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire.
Everyone at that judgment will be cast to hell.
But that is not for the children of God.
Jesus says, "I will RAISE you on the last day"
Paul says, God will come and we will meat him in the air. and there will be with him forever.
Does not sound like being "delivered to Christ" to me..
K
You must not be reading the same bible I read...King James. Because in that chapter is says those written in the Book of Life are standing in front of the judgment seat too. It also says every one was judged according to their works. If you have not read there is different rewards given to believers; from hey and stubble to gold crowns. But those whose works were bad enough will face hell fire judgment as well.
No it doesn't..it says that EVERYONE WHO IS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE SHALL BE CAST ALIVE INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE AND BRIMSTONE.......
The first BOOKS OPENED contain the LAW OF MOSES WHICH CONDEMNS THE LOST and a SEARCH IS DONE in the book of LIFE and since their name is not in it..they are cast with death and hell into the eternal lake of fire!
The first BOOKS OPENED contain the LAW OF MOSES WHICH CONDEMNS THE LOST and a SEARCH IS DONE in the book of LIFE and since their name is not in it..they are cast with death and hell into the eternal lake of fire!
E
1. from the kjv
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
nothing about those ALIVE in christ written there. Nice try.
2. The judgement "wood hey straw" Is called the "bema seat judgment" The Bema Seat judgment is not the same as the great white throne judgment.
One is for rewards, One is for judgment.
K
Who do you think the ones written in the book of life our. If you are not alive ( in spirit ) for Christ you will not be in the book of life. And the judgment seat is after all the tribulation, Gods wrath, 1000 years millennium, and the first heaven and earth passing away. Nobody can still be alive in the flesh on earth because the inhabitants were destroyed / or already raptured. Changed to a spiritual body.