Free Gifts Come With Conditions....

[SeaBass]

Jesus said search for food which does not die, but which endures forever.

If you eat the food he offers, you will never hunger, never thirst, live forever, Never die, And be assured he WILL raise you on the last day.

What work did he reuire to recieve this food,?

"it is the work of God that you believe in the one he sent'

If you want to eat manna every day because you have not been made alive in Christ, thats up to you.

Me? I have eaten the food God gave me, which will endure forever. Unlike the manna in the dessert which died.

Keep eating. You hunger because you have not eaten the food God offers. or you would never need to search for food again.

Next!!

I covered this back in post #7.

Jesus said to labor for the meat that endures unto everlasting life which He gives.

Jesus gives it so it is free, but one must labor for it.

Just like the manna was free but they must labor for it to have it to eat.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are trying to change the issue.

You are having a hard time in them getting this free gift of manna from God WITHOUT them having to work to gather this free gift. It was a WORK for them to take the manna though you say "it is not a work to take it".

The point being of this thread that free gifts can come with conditions and God's free gift of manna came with the condition they work to gather it. If God had not given them the manna then they would have no work of gathering for there would have been no free gift to gather.

So the gathering in no way earned them anything but was a condition God put upon His free gift of manna to them.

Likewise obedience to God's will in no way earns the free gift of eternal life.

No,

You are.

Your trying to use the fact people recieved something they did not deserve (a gift) and using this to promote your works based gospel.

it will not work.

God did the work of giving them the manna, GOD GETS ALL THE CREDIT. It is HIS WORK THEY WERE TRUSTING IN.

Not their own.

Stop trying to justify your works. and recieve the gift God is offering you. He wants yuo to take the food which endures forever, which will never fade away, do you want his work. or do you want a flawed gift which is no gift at all. and fades away because it has no power?

 

[StoneThrower]

Nope.

I had them have FAITH FIRST. then they did the work.

and actually God did the work. he gave it to them to begin with.

Amen salvation is all of God!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I can give people gifts without conditions if I so choose.

according to your example you can not. You say they have the condition of taking it. thus according to you. what you just claimed is impossible.

Basically, You just proved me right. thank you.

thats the problem with using flawed examples. It always comes back to bite ya you know where!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Oh I get it. So lets say there is a man that murders someone. Then he runs and finds you and says "I have a free gift for you" and he puts the murder weapon on the floor in front of you. According to what you are saying, the weapon is now yours whether you grab it or not. It was a free gift to you from the murderer and it was his work that gave it to you. Am I right? It is automatically yours and you don't have to do a thing about it because it was given to you freely.

So now your going to equate the gift of God purchased with the blood of Christ on the cross with a murders knife.

Dude, nothing you say from here on out is even worth responding to. You just proved what yuo think of the gift of God

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No it says you were bought with a price.

Yep. The price of the blood of Christ on the cross.

Not the price of me doing works.. I can;t pay my debt, Or God would not have had to die.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I covered this back in post #7.

Jesus said to labor for the meat that endures unto everlasting life which He gives.

Jesus gives it so it is free, but one must labor for it.

Just like the manna was free but they must labor for it to have it to eat.

Your still laboring and have not found it. You prove how hard it is to find the truth, and why one must labor to find it.

Jesus said, It is the work of God we believe in the one he sent, that was his response when the people asked what WORK they must do to recieve that food.

End of story.

 

[notuptome]

So if we don't submit, we are not saved. You just destroyed faith alone, and yet you're going to say I'm twisting your words. I'm not, examine them yourself.

What does the Holy Spirit do? He brings conviction of sin because all men are sinners. He brings conviction of righteousness because Christ is righteous. He brings conviction of judgment because all men deserve to go to eternal condemnation. If you will not receive Gods gift of eternal life offered by grace through faith then you have preferred your righteousness to the righteousness of God. This is submission. Accepting the fact that you cannot save yourself and that you do not deserve to be saved in the first place.

Now God Who led Israel through the wilderness for forty years did not allow even their shoes to wear out could have simply fed them by His hand. Because they would not trust God to sustain them they demanded of God to give them bread. God intended something much better but they would not receive it. Many today can have eternal life but they will not let go their own righteousness which is like a filthy rag compared to the righteousness of God. They demand of God the they work to receive that which God gives to whom ever will only ask of Him.

Faith comes from hearing the word of God and not from man himself. The gospel is an offense to those who perish.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[apostolic862004]

[QUOTESo taking it when it is placed in your hand or at your feet is doing something that we can take credit for (a work)
][/QUOTE]
See here is the problem, you think that everybody thinks like you and would try to take credit for just doing what they were supposed to do. You can't wrap you mind around the fact that people can obey and not become a pharisee about doing what they were told to do. Sad.

Um, if you have trust, you have faith, if you do not trust, You have NO FAITH.

You may belief I have it, but not trust it, thus you would not take it due to lack of faith, but if you trust me, you would take it without asking any questions.

Poor guy, you are trying so hard but you just can't make up your mind what you believe. First you say faith and trust are one in the same. Then you say oh no, wait a minute, you can have faith and still not trust. Shaking my head.

lol. Just like the offer of salvation will rot if one dies and does not recieve it. Same example. same proof.

But where does works come into the picture?

Bingo! the offer of salvation is over at the point of death. So if you didn't DO anything with the opportunity, it rotted on you and you're going to hell. But according to you, that can't be true because it was given freely to you and its yours whether you do anything about it or not. So everybody is stuck going to heaven whether they like it or not because salvation is a gift that was given freely to them.

We all know how absolutely ridiculous that is and yet this is exactly what James was talking about in James chapter 2. He even specifically asks the question CAN FAITH SAVE YOU? The obvious answer in its context is NO! You need to do something about your faith!


No it is not.


1. He said CAN your claimed faith save you. He never claimed they had any faith, on the contrary, he stated their faith was dead (non existant)

WHAT?! You are saying that the obvious answer to the question in James 2:14 about whether faith can save a man is not NO? You are willfully ignorant. The whole point he is making is that you cannot be saved by faith alone. You are saved by faith AND works that prove your faith. You are blatantly contradicting scripture.

2. As already proven, Abraham was deemed righteous before he did one work. And james used this as an example to prove his point. Abrahams faith was not dead. because AFTER he was saved (his claim to have faith) he proved his faith BY HIS WORK. But he was saved BEFORE he did one work. thus not seen as a liar

Wrong again! Another one of your flat out contradictions to scripture. Abraham was not deemed righteous BEFORE he did the work. It was the work that JUSTIFIED him according to scripture!

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for
righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

 

[apostolic862004]

Originally Posted by apostolic862004

Oh I get it. So lets say there is a man that murders someone. Then he runs and finds you and says "I have a free gift for you" and he puts the murder weapon on the floor in front of you. According to what you are saying, the weapon is now yours whether you grab it or not. It was a free gift to you from the murderer and it was his work that gave it to you. Am I right? It is automatically yours and you don't have to do a thing about it because it was given to you freely.




So now your going to equate the gift of God purchased with the blood of Christ on the cross with a murders knife.

Dude, nothing you say from here on out is even worth responding to. You just proved what yuo think of the gift of God

Lol. That is a real good cop out. That little example just blew your doctrine out the window and you can't respond without proving your ignorance to scripture. If I were you I wouldn't try to answer either. See, you accused me of comparing the blood of Christ to a murder weapon but I did no such thing. We are talking about gifts. Next, you will want to try to define a gift and you will try to say that its only a gift if the person receiving it feels its a good thing. But your false doctrine didn't take into consideration that bad things can be given as gifts too. This is why the recipient has a choice to take the gift or leave it.

 

[SeaBass]

They did no work to make the gift appear. God gave it to them, all they had to do was take it. This is NOT WORK.

Try to understand what a work is..





Nope. because it is NOT WORK TO RECIEVE SOMETHING YOU ARE GIVEN.

A biblical defenition of a work is something you can be proud of. You can boast of. you can take credit for. Can I be proud of the fact, take credit for the fact, Boast of the fact I took a free will offering I did nothing to deserve from someone who cared enough to give it to me??

It is understood the Hebrews did not work to make the manna appear, it appeared by God's grace. But they had to do work in gathering the manna. in order to eat it.

So they were given the manna. Are you now denying they had to work to gather this free manna? How would they eat the manna had they not done the work in gathering it?

 

[SeaBass]

No,

You are.

Your trying to use the fact people recieved something they did not deserve (a gift) and using this to promote your works based gospel.

it will not work.

God did the work of giving them the manna, GOD GETS ALL THE CREDIT. It is HIS WORK THEY WERE TRUSTING IN.

Not their own.

Stop trying to justify your works. and recieve the gift God is offering you. He wants yuo to take the food which endures forever, which will never fade away, do you want his work. or do you want a flawed gift which is no gift at all. and fades away because it has no power?

God sent them the manna out of his grace. So even though the manna was sent by God for free they still had to work to gather it. And without the work of gathering it they would not have the manna to eat for it was just lay upon the ground uneaten.


Would they have had the free manna to eat if they did not WORK to gather it?

 

[crossnote]

The point was the puppy was a free gift, does that mean the work you do in caring for the puppy, (feeding, watering etc) mean you earned the free puppy given you?

Or did you think the free puppy came with no conditional work, the puppy takes care of itself while you do nothing?

Bad analogy of yours was my point. The puppy is the Holy Spirit. He takes care of you and trains you.

 

[dcontroversal]

It must have sucked to grow up in your house as all the gifts I ever (received) were free gifts!

 

[crossnote]

It is understood God gave them the manna for free. What is being avoided by some here is that to eat the free manna required they first do the work of gathering it.

No work = no free gift....if they did not do the work of gathering, then they could not get the free gift.

Eternally-Gratfull is working on trying to find a way to where they can eat the manna without having to first do the work of gathering it.



Num 21:

If they do not look upon the brass serpent would they have been healed? No, so that gift of healing was conditional upon their going and looking upon the brass serpent.

Under your definition, all gifts require work and therefore the word gift is meaningless.

 

[crossnote]

And God's conditions on how the manna was to be received? Seriously, there is no faith alone. You all keep harping on this belief even though Scripture clearly states that there is no faith alone. The response always is well that's not how he meant it. Accept that obedience is a condition of salvation for without obedience we are those who will cry Lord Lord and be cast out.

'Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved'.
What faith plus ?

 

[dcontroversal]

'Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved'.
What faith plus ?

Modern Gospel---> Believe in Jesus, do many wonderful works, back flip down the isle while singing 57 verses of Just as I am while speaking in 37 different tongues and never sinning and just in case..get immersed, sprinkled and say 25 hail Marys and keeping the seven sacraments while being slain in the spirit.....

This is the modern Gospel of ecumenicalism as blended from ALL groups that ADD to Jesus and HIS FAITH for salvation......rubbish...salvation is free to all who will believe and acknowledge the truth is Jesus...nothing added or taken from it!

Feel free to add your flavor of religion to the above Modern Gospel....sounds like Burger King Theology and their new GAY HAMBURGER!

 

[notuptome]

So the manna was not of God's grace? Did God owe them the manna?

Ex 16:15 And when the children of Israel saw it, they said one to another, Itismanna: for they wist not what it was. And Moses said unto them, This is the bread which the LORD hath given you to eat.

Psa 78:24 And had rained down manna upon them to eat, and had given them of the corn of heaven.

Does this also mean Naaman's healing was of himself, he earned his healing and it too was not of grace?

Did God supply Israel's need? Yes. Did those who ate the manna still die? Yes. Could God have sustained Israel without manna? Yes.

Naaman had the expectation of most men. They know of God but do not yet know God for Who He is. Naaman wanted healed and figured God could heal him on the spot. Which God could have done of course but for the testimony of His word Naaman went to wash himself. Naaman received mercy. Naaman glorified God. Naaman still grew old and died.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[2Thewaters]

yes not everyone could go becuase of character flaws
Can you imagine what bill and hill and bamo and congress and all the billionaires priests, military, al scudas and the chinese slave drivers on the planet would try to do in heaven?

you would have to rent the animals to pet and buy the fruits from the tree of life etc

 

[apostolic862004]

Could someone provide me with some scriptures that make reference to our salvation being free?