The Law is perfect for converting the soul...

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Scuba

Scuba

Banned
#41
Jun 26, 2014
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#41
JamesMcClay said:
The SABBATH REST is TOTALLY TRUSTING IN THE LORD> It has nothing to do with what you do on Sunday.
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If you tell someone to rest on the first day you are telling them something that God is not. God says six days is for labor but the seventh day is for the LORD your God.

Now you say the meaning of the seventh day rest for a saved person is to totally trust in the LORD. What about the seventh day rest for my working animals and those who are not God's people?
 
Apostol2013

Apostol2013

Senior Member
#42
Jan 27, 2013
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#42
john832 said:
Christ is the One who gave the Law. He spoke the Ten Commandments to Israel from Mt. Sinai and spoke the rest of the Law to Moses. So He did a facepalm and decided that He messed up? Then He came and undid what He did and the redid it?
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You see of course God did not mess up at all , but like in ecclesiastes it states theres a season for everything one beautiful book by the way but Christ introduced the law as a school master since their precepts were so veiled.with darkness you see the law was made foe the disobedient , so the law served as a schoolmaster to show us the precepts of what sin is and the prophets give a view of christ
 
Apostol2013

Apostol2013

Senior Member
#43
Jan 27, 2013
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#43
Apostol2013 said:
You see of course God did not mess up at all , but like in ecclesiastes it states theres a season for everything one beautiful book by the way but Christ introduced the law as a school master since their precepts were so veiled.with darkness you see the law was made foe the disobedient , so the law served as a schoolmaster to show us the precepts of what sin is and the prophets give a view of Christ and also the law was to be till Jesus came to fullfill the law and it was prophecied by isaiah the change in the law to establish the everlasting eyernal
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4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
 
Apostol2013

Apostol2013

Senior Member
#44
Jan 27, 2013
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#44
21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honorable.
 
J

john832

Senior Member
#45
May 31, 2013
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#45
Apostol2013 said:
You see of course God did not mess up at all , but like in ecclesiastes it states theres a season for everything one beautiful book by the way but Christ introduced the law as a school master since their precepts were so veiled.with darkness you see the law was made foe the disobedient , so the law served as a schoolmaster to show us the precepts of what sin is and the prophets give a view of christ
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Then He said this...

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

But He was only kidding?
 
J

john832

Senior Member
#46
May 31, 2013
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#46
Apostol2013 said:
21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honorable.
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And where in that statement is the Law done away or suspended?
 
RedTent

RedTent

Banned
#47
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
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#47
LT;1595112[B said:
]the Sabbath is kept by all who rest in Christ.[/B] The physically minded part of us wants to hold to the physical elements, but they do so in error, and in sin.

Love does not tell me which day it is.

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a]38 This is the first and greatest commandment.39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b]40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

If you would focus on these words, rather than wasting thought on which day of the week is the historical Sabbath, then you would be actually doing what Christ called you to do.


If the Law converts, then why did Paul need converting?
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I don't think that resting in Christ completes instructions to work six days and rest on one day.

It seems to me that there is a connection between all of God's word, and there is a connection between these two instruction, but one instructions never wipes out another, either. Resting in the Lord certainly must be kept in mind as we give up working for ourselves, then on one day simply depend on the Lord's work, only. We are to depend on the Lord every day, even, as we also work for ourselves. But that doesn't cancel that we are to know this day is special, and especially blessed for our sakes.

All law, grace, faith, and God in our lives are interconnected and work together, so each piece must fit in correctly. But one does not cancel another. The law must fit into it's place for us, just as the Holy Spirit fits into it's place.
 
RedTent

RedTent

Banned
#48
Oct 31, 2011
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#48
RedTent said:
I don't think that resting in Christ completes instructions to work six days and rest on one day.

It seems to me that there is a connection between all of God's word, and there is a connection between these two instruction, but one instructions never wipes out another, either. Resting in the Lord certainly must be kept in mind as we give up working for ourselves, then on one day simply depend on the Lord's work, only. We are to depend on the Lord every day, even, as we also work for ourselves. But that doesn't cancel that we are to know this day is special, and especially blessed for our sakes.

All law, grace, faith, and God in our lives are interconnected and work together, so each piece must fit in correctly. But one does not cancel another. The law must fit into it's place for us, just as the Holy Spirit fits into it's place.
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Or did you mean this only in relation to choosing the day in the week to rest?
 
C

chubbena

Guest
#49
#49
LT said:
the Sabbath is kept by all who rest in Christ. The physically minded part of us wants to hold to the physical elements, but they do so in error, and in sin.

Love does not tell me which day it is.

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a]38 This is the first and greatest commandment.39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b]40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

If you would focus on these words, rather than wasting thought on which day of the week is the historical Sabbath, then you would be actually doing what Christ called you to do.


If the Law converts, then why did Paul need converting?
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If one focus on the Word, not his own theology, then one would see Jesus was replying the question: Master, which is the great commandment in the law?


And "to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind" is right before "These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts" in Deuteronomy 6, which is in the law.

And in the law, it commands "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

And to figure out which day is the Sabbath does not need to waste much time, like many have pointed out, it's the day before Sunday.

The scripture says the law converts the soul. Since scripture does not contradict, it had to be Paul who didn't understand the law previously.
 
RedTent

RedTent

Banned
#50
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
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#50
chubbena said:
The scripture says the law converts the soul. Since scripture does not contradict, it had to be Paul who didn't understand the law previously.
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Being it's been checked and rechecked to see if God spoke to Paul and all decided God did, then it could be that Paul understood and we don't understand Paul.

We keep saying Paul said Christ cancelled the law, and Paul keeps saying that he follows all the law best he can. If we would read Paul without the notion he was against law, but was a Torah keeping Jew like he keeps saying he was, the same words would be different to us. He was against law without the spirit, but so is all of scripture.
 
C

chubbena

Guest
#51
#51
Grandpa said:
What is even more illogical is, after coming to Christ, you think it is your carnal keeping of the Law is what pleases Him.

Psalm 73:22 So foolish was I, and ignorant: I was as a beast before thee.

We don't understand the Spiritual. We don't understand Salvation. The Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit have to show us. That is when we see that all our works of attempting to emulate Him through the Law, by blessing ourselves with our own "obedience", is dirty rags before Him. We were never obedient. We never came close to emulating Him. We are in constant need of Him and His Blessing.

I think you already know this. You must if you point people to the Lord Jesus for the solution to their condemnation.

How was it that they were condemned again? Scuba knows. You can ask him or read the OP...
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And if one divides the Word his own way, psalm 73 could read
Surely in vain I have kept my heart pure and have washed my hands in innocence. All day long I have been afflicted, and every morning brings new punishments....I was senseless and ignorant; I was a brute beast before you.

Of course you don't mean that.
 
C

chubbena

Guest
#52
#52
eternally-gratefull said:
Your not going to win anyone to CHrist by judging them, even using the commandments.

Paul shows us in romans 1 they already know what sin is. If you push the ten commands on someone not saved, all your going to get is a hand in your face.

They know they are sinners (romans 1) what they need to know is that they need Christ, And what CHrist did for them, and that CHrist can free them from their pain and hardship. Humans spend their whole lives trying to fill a need. And use sin to do it. In the end, nothing they do can fill that need (and they know it, that is why they keep trying and keep failing)

They need to know only Christ can fill that hole or need in their lives.
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And Paul in your interpretation, must have superseded Christ, for Christ commanded that repentance for the forgiveness of sins was to be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
 
Apostol2013

Apostol2013

Senior Member
#53
Jan 27, 2013
2,105
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#53
john832 said:
And where in that statement is the Law done away or suspended?
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Magnify to do so requires a change in law and make it honourable also a sign that requires change the book to the hebrews comdirms this even paul comfirmed it and in isaiah it states that the isles wait for His laws , isles meani.g gentiles and further He is set on righteousness , therefore righteousness is the rule of the kingdom as explained in pspalms 45:6,7 and paul said that if
 
J

john832

Senior Member
#54
May 31, 2013
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#54
Apostol2013 said:
Magnify to do so requires a change in law and make it honourable also a sign that requires change the book to the hebrews comdirms this even paul comfirmed it and in isaiah it states that the isles wait for His laws , isles meani.g gentiles and further He is set on righteousness , therefore righteousness is the rule of the kingdom as explained in pspalms 45:6,7 and paul said that if
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Why does magnifying anything change it?

Hmmm, Psalms?

Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.

The Psalmist says that the Commandments are righteousness.
 
Apostol2013

Apostol2013

Senior Member
#55
Jan 27, 2013
2,105
39
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#55
john832 said:
Then He said this...

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

But He was only kidding?
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17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

18 For truly I say to you, Till heaven and earth pass, one stroke or one pronunciation mark shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Notice it says till all be fullfilled
 
Apostol2013

Apostol2013

Senior Member
#56
Jan 27, 2013
2,105
39
48
#56
Apostol2013 said:
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

18 For truly I say to you, Till heaven and earth pass, one stroke or one pronunciation mark shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Notice it says till all be fullfilled
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oh 17:4 I have glorified you on the earth: I have finished the work which you gave me to do. View more

Joh 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
 
Apostol2013

Apostol2013

Senior Member
#57
Jan 27, 2013
2,105
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#57
He had fullfilled the law at the cross
 
P

psychomom

Guest
#58
#58
john832 said:
OK, it is about Jesus Christ. Let's see what Jesus Christ says...

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

In fact, Jesus Christ says this...

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

And the Great Commission He gave the disciples, then and now, is...

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Now verse 19 gets a lot of press but what about verse 20?

"observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you"

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

In fact, those who do not keep the Commandments won't be there...

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
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i'm sorry, when did i speak against obedience in the quote that brought about the above? :confused:
 
J

john832

Senior Member
#59
May 31, 2013
11,365
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#59
Apostol2013 said:
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

18 For truly I say to you, Till heaven and earth pass, one stroke or one pronunciation mark shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Notice it says till all be fullfilled
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OK, so all is not fulfilled yet. The second coming has not occurred, the Millennium has not occurred, the Great White Throne Judgment has not occurred, New Jerusalem has not come down yet, why the Great Tribulation has not even occurred yet.
 
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