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E
No you have posted many scriptures taken out of context. and claim they prove it. while ignoring the scripture which have been shown you. which shows quite the opposite. thus making scripture contradict itself.
what good is a scripture which contradicts?
so what makes you better than everyone else? why do you think they could. when you know yuo will not? are you better or more saved than them?
what good is a scripture which contradicts?
so what makes you better than everyone else? why do you think they could. when you know yuo will not? are you better or more saved than them?
E
No belief makes you a son. otherwise we would always live in fear. God said I was not given a spirit of fear. but of ADOPTION, whereby I can cry out abba Father.
if following the spirit only makes us a son. that means we would have to be perfect. IE. No one could ever be saved.
so when I disobay my earthy father, I am telling him I am not my father?
keep it up. You keep destroying the character of God. and telling me and others my earthy father is more loving than my heavenly father.
if following the spirit only makes us a son. that means we would have to be perfect. IE. No one could ever be saved.
so when I disobay my earthy father, I am telling him I am not my father?
keep it up. You keep destroying the character of God. and telling me and others my earthy father is more loving than my heavenly father.
K
Atwood you are off topic. This blog is about OSAS, not savior plus salvation in the same scripture.
To get the full picture of salvation you must go by all scriptures in the new testament. Not just the ones that say Jesus in them, but also those that Jesus said one must do to obtain salvation. Nowhere does Jesus say you are saved now. Show me a scripture that says that ?
Yes all those scriptures I gave do apply to salvation. You once again don't want to see it though.
We run to receive an imperishable ( this is eternal life that can't be taken away )
Once again Matthew 10 is not about tribulation, Matthew 24 is
Romans is about personal salvation, for we are the gentiles that were grafted in and if we do not continue in His grace we to will be cut off.
To get the full picture of salvation you must go by all scriptures in the new testament. Not just the ones that say Jesus in them, but also those that Jesus said one must do to obtain salvation. Nowhere does Jesus say you are saved now. Show me a scripture that says that ?
Yes all those scriptures I gave do apply to salvation. You once again don't want to see it though.
We run to receive an imperishable ( this is eternal life that can't be taken away )
Once again Matthew 10 is not about tribulation, Matthew 24 is
Romans is about personal salvation, for we are the gentiles that were grafted in and if we do not continue in His grace we to will be cut off.
K
I trust myself through God, and it is our responsibility to help others in their walk. Not just sit back and walk by people with an attitude well God will save that person if He wants, or not save that one if He wants.
Spreading the gospel, and the way one should walk still applies to us. With the Christian walk comes the warnings as well that were taught. Spreading the word is a call for every Christian to do, it is your position in the true church of Christ that differs.
Teachers, preachers, prophets, help,...and so on. ( Nowhere does it say we are called to do nothing )
Spreading the gospel, and the way one should walk still applies to us. With the Christian walk comes the warnings as well that were taught. Spreading the word is a call for every Christian to do, it is your position in the true church of Christ that differs.
Teachers, preachers, prophets, help,...and so on. ( Nowhere does it say we are called to do nothing )
E
How can you say that, then claim one can lose salvation. That is a contradiction in terms.
I agree, I need to help others in their walk. Otherwise they may remain babes in christ, and not do anything usefull in the spiritual war we are in in what satan wants to keep unbelievers unsaved. And take saved people out so they are useless.
But that is different than telling someone they need to endure or they will lose salvation. there is no hope in that gospel. only fear.
WHo is teaching this? If you think I am, you have not listened to a word I have said.
Yes, but it has to be in sequence. You can not tell an unbleiver how to walk. they can not do it, even if they tried. You get them saved first.
THEN you help show them how to walk, and help them grow in a discipleship relationship.
I never said we are called to do nothing. That is the lie you are being taught about me. and the many many people like me
I am worried about someone being saved first. otherwise the rest of what you said is useless.
Your either saved or not saved, there is no inbetween. If we are saved, scripture makes it clear. We are sealed by the spirit who is our guarantee to the day of Christ (ressurection)
if we are not sealed. nothign else matters, we are still lost and dead in sin. Nothing can help us.
I agree, I need to help others in their walk. Otherwise they may remain babes in christ, and not do anything usefull in the spiritual war we are in in what satan wants to keep unbelievers unsaved. And take saved people out so they are useless.
But that is different than telling someone they need to endure or they will lose salvation. there is no hope in that gospel. only fear.
WHo is teaching this? If you think I am, you have not listened to a word I have said.
Yes, but it has to be in sequence. You can not tell an unbleiver how to walk. they can not do it, even if they tried. You get them saved first.
THEN you help show them how to walk, and help them grow in a discipleship relationship.
I never said we are called to do nothing. That is the lie you are being taught about me. and the many many people like me
I am worried about someone being saved first. otherwise the rest of what you said is useless.
Your either saved or not saved, there is no inbetween. If we are saved, scripture makes it clear. We are sealed by the spirit who is our guarantee to the day of Christ (ressurection)
if we are not sealed. nothign else matters, we are still lost and dead in sin. Nothing can help us.
Well said: "You will not surely..."
Charles Stanley is the one preacher of 'once saved always saved' who always comes to mind when I hear about this doctrine. When I attended the Atlanta Vineyard, his church was about three blocks away from us. My best friend and I began going to the Vineyard for the worship and then duck out to Stanley's church for the message. I hope Stanley and some of his "you will not surely" gospel friends can repent and teach the truth for both their and their hearers' sake.
Charles Stanley is the one preacher of 'once saved always saved' who always comes to mind when I hear about this doctrine. When I attended the Atlanta Vineyard, his church was about three blocks away from us. My best friend and I began going to the Vineyard for the worship and then duck out to Stanley's church for the message. I hope Stanley and some of his "you will not surely" gospel friends can repent and teach the truth for both their and their hearers' sake.
K
Our Lord Jesus and the apostles gave us warnings, why are we not to take those warnings literally if they don't apply to us. They do apply to us, just like they apply to others who come after us.
Those who believe these don't apply an teach others they don't will be least in heaven, but those who believe they do and teach others will be thought more of in heaven.
Those who believe these don't apply an teach others they don't will be least in heaven, but those who believe they do and teach others will be thought more of in heaven.
K
Yes because their heart is still fully based on trust in our Lord Jesus Christ.
The error is though that then those who hear that they do not apply, go and turn it to mean that they can go and do what ever they want and still be saved.
Scriptures make it clear that you can not go and live a bad life producing nothing but bad works. ( You can not serve our Lord and satan ) The Holy Spirit will be there to guide them, but they can refuse that guidance.
This has been the false teaching of the church for years, and some OSAS based churches even teach this error. Once you have been saved you can still live the worse life imaginable and still be saved. That is not biblical.
The error is though that then those who hear that they do not apply, go and turn it to mean that they can go and do what ever they want and still be saved.
Scriptures make it clear that you can not go and live a bad life producing nothing but bad works. ( You can not serve our Lord and satan ) The Holy Spirit will be there to guide them, but they can refuse that guidance.
This has been the false teaching of the church for years, and some OSAS based churches even teach this error. Once you have been saved you can still live the worse life imaginable and still be saved. That is not biblical.
E
My friend, Scripture teaches these people were never saved. why would you want to twist it and say they lost salvation?
So two wrongs make a right? Some people do what peter said, and twist pauls salvation by grace to their own destruction. James says people twist pauls writtings by saying we can claim faith by live any way we want? Jude says people twist paul and turn the grace of God to licentiousness, who's condemnation was long since predetermined (because they were never saved)
sorry. I can not say people can do something God says they can't just (lose salvation) so I can stop a false teaching which has been around since the church started. You fight it with truth, Not with a lie which apposes it. The apposing lie is just as bad as the lie it is fighting.
So two wrongs make a right? Some people do what peter said, and twist pauls salvation by grace to their own destruction. James says people twist pauls writtings by saying we can claim faith by live any way we want? Jude says people twist paul and turn the grace of God to licentiousness, who's condemnation was long since predetermined (because they were never saved)
sorry. I can not say people can do something God says they can't just (lose salvation) so I can stop a false teaching which has been around since the church started. You fight it with truth, Not with a lie which apposes it. The apposing lie is just as bad as the lie it is fighting.
After Paul makes a masterful presentation of justification, what are the two questions he deals with in Romans 6?
Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
We have a sin nature, why not persist in it?
Then later on in the chapter, "Shall we continue to sin, because we are under grace, not law?"
Should we sin occasionally because we don't have to obey the law?
The answer to both questions is no. But the clear implication is that if we continue in sin, grace will abound, and if we continue to sin, we are still under grace.
What does this mean? God's grace truly is grace, it truly does cover us no matter what we do, now or in the future. Should we sin? No! Can we sin and still be under grace? Unequivocally, undoubtably, and irrevocably YES.
Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
We have a sin nature, why not persist in it?
Then later on in the chapter, "Shall we continue to sin, because we are under grace, not law?"
Should we sin occasionally because we don't have to obey the law?
The answer to both questions is no. But the clear implication is that if we continue in sin, grace will abound, and if we continue to sin, we are still under grace.
What does this mean? God's grace truly is grace, it truly does cover us no matter what we do, now or in the future. Should we sin? No! Can we sin and still be under grace? Unequivocally, undoubtably, and irrevocably YES.
K
Once again I will refer you to Matthew 25:31-46New International Version (NIV)[h=3]The Sheep and the Goats[/h][SUP]31 [/SUP]“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. [SUP]32 [/SUP]All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. [SUP]33 [/SUP]He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. [SUP]35 [/SUP]For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, [SUP]36 [/SUP]I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
[SUP]37 [/SUP]“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? [SUP]38 [/SUP]When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? [SUP]39 [/SUP]When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?
( Notice hear how the sheep <believers> are shocked that He is speaking of works they did )
[SUP]40 [/SUP]“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
[SUP]41 [/SUP]“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. [SUP]42 [/SUP]For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, [SUP]43 [/SUP]I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
[SUP]44[/SUP]“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
( Notice here this group also believed in Jesus as Lord )
[SUP]45 [/SUP]“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
[SUP]46 [/SUP]“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Both groups believed in Jesus as Lord, but only one did the will of the Lord our God.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. [SUP]35 [/SUP]For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, [SUP]36 [/SUP]I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
[SUP]37 [/SUP]“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? [SUP]38 [/SUP]When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? [SUP]39 [/SUP]When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?
( Notice hear how the sheep <believers> are shocked that He is speaking of works they did )
[SUP]40 [/SUP]“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
[SUP]41 [/SUP]“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. [SUP]42 [/SUP]For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, [SUP]43 [/SUP]I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
[SUP]44[/SUP]“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
( Notice here this group also believed in Jesus as Lord )
[SUP]45 [/SUP]“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
[SUP]46 [/SUP]“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Both groups believed in Jesus as Lord, but only one did the will of the Lord our God.
K
This is why many OSAS and ES will be shocked come judgment day. A believer doe's not want to sin and abhors sin and wants no part of it. Thats why Paul said that which I will to do I do not and that which I will not to do that I do. Oh wretched man that I am.
Then thanks the cross that sets him free and said whenIi looked at the law sin revived and I died. He had to take his eyes off the law and place it in the ross of Christ. When that is done the Holy Spirit helps us or breaks the power of sin over us. Then we start looking at what we do and say look how holy I am and the Spirit backs off because He cannot honor that and we find ourselves doing thingfs that we don't want to do. So we search the scripture and twist it to justify our sin, saying that once saved always saved no matter what I do. Kill steal rob and destroy or disrupt my family be abusive to my wife and children it make no never mind because I cannot sin to the point that I lose my salvation. That is a lie. Please come to the rehab facility and prisons with me. Your doctrine will vanish in a weeks time.
It is God's will that all that accept Christ have eternal. Bubble buster, God's will is not reality. It is God's will that no man should perish but that all repent to everlasting life. But you know and I know that this is not reality, people die and spend eternity in hell every day.
E
And why are they suprised?
Because people who have faith (like me) do not do works to earn anything. They do not even think of it. it becomes natural. Because it is not them doing the work. It is God.
I don;t get you. this supports eternal security. It does not refute it..
Yet they did. But notice. They had no works. why? their faith was DEAD, as James said, CAN THIS FAITH SAVE YOU. well no it can;t.. these people were NEVER SAVED.
Again this supports eternal security and salvation by faith in the work of God. so I do not get why your using it.
The one who did the will of God trusted God. and thus God saved them and worked in them, even when they did not know it. because it was not about them
the ones who did not did not have faith, their faith was dead. which is why they did no work.
You just proved what Ihave been saying since day one.
and did not refute eternal security, you actually proved it. how ironic.
E
Yep. But he admitted he still did it.
Osas does not teach it is ok to sin. It teaches I am powerless against sin. as paul just did
Whats said is many will stand on that day with all their mighty works. All the things they did for God. And Jesus will say, DEPART FOR I NEVER KNEW YOU.
They thought they were righteous by their deeds, and failed to realise they were unrighteous practicing iniquity. because they were to focused on how good they were. and how bad the sinners were.
K
Yes, but it only supports eternal salvation at the judgment like I have been saying.
Our Lord says at judgment you go to eternal life, not before then.
OSAS teaching says you have it now, but Lord Jesus nowhere says that.
He says at judgment they are given this, in His return He says the reward (eternal life ) is with him, and that mixed with all the other scriptures that I gave showing one must endure to the end to be saved.
Our Lord says at judgment you go to eternal life, not before then.
OSAS teaching says you have it now, but Lord Jesus nowhere says that.
He says at judgment they are given this, in His return He says the reward (eternal life ) is with him, and that mixed with all the other scriptures that I gave showing one must endure to the end to be saved.