ONCE saved always saved!.

[dcontroversal]

No offense dcontro, but if it were you, I would quickly change the subject because you lost this argument sometime ago.

No offence Croc, but this argument was lost the very micro-second that works got attached to Jesus for salvation and or to keep salvation....

 

[dcontroversal]

So you think there is salvation outside of Christ?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
[SUP]6[/SUP]If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.


This is why we have to remain in fellowship with him. Salvation is in Christ...without his fellowship you have no salvation.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]I give thanks to my God always for you because of the grace of God that was given you in Christ Jesus, [SUP]5 [/SUP]that in every way you were enriched in him in all speech and all knowledge— [SUP]6 [/SUP]even as the testimony about Christ was confirmed among you— [SUP]7 [/SUP]so that you are not lacking in any gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, [SUP]8 [/SUP]who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]9 [/SUP]God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

The very scriptures you quote and then miss-apply to salvation proves my point.....again we must understand that people who believe in works for salvation are not saved and cannot understand the word of God as they have believed a gospel of a different kind...no surprise that you consistently apply scriptures and tie scriptures to salvation which have nothing at all to do with salvation!

 

[dcontroversal]

Here I will post again seeing how it goes unanswered!

So...do you loose your salvation instantly or do you have like 24 hours to repent before you loose your salvation...maybe 36 hours?


Originally Posted by SeaBass

Any sin a Christian will not repent of.


1 Jn 1:7 as long as the Christian CONTINUES to walk in the light, then Christ blood CONTINUES to wash away all sins.

If I quit walking in the light then NONE of my sins will be washed away.

 

[dcontroversal]

Your argument is with James

He claims you are as sinful and guilty as the fornicater. heck James makes it clear. your as guilty as Hitler.

You can;t see it, because you can;t see your own sin. The pharisees had this same issue with their own selves. What was gods answer to them? you should listen, because God is talking to you also.

No doubt and I agree...God's answer to the Pharisees thru Jesus and John the Immerser-->to those WHO TRUSTED IN THEIR WORKS, THE KEEPING OF THE LAW and THIER OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS....

1. White washed coffins filled with dead men's bones
2. Men who they convert are TWO FOLD the children of hell
3. Vipers and Snakes in the grass
4. Hypocrites
5. Blind leaders of the Blind
6. Can't go to or be where Jesus is!

Just to name a few!

This is God's view of people who trust in their

1. Works
2. Religion
3. Religious practices
4. Own Righteousness
5. Keeping of the Law<---hypocritically Like religious Pharisee types!

 

[newbirth]

Here I will post again seeing how it goes unanswered!

So...do you loose your salvation instantly or do you have like 24 hours to repent before you loose your salvation...maybe 36 hours?


Originally Posted by SeaBass

Any sin a Christian will not repent of.


1 Jn 1:7 as long as the Christian CONTINUES to walk in the light, then Christ blood CONTINUES to wash away all sins.

If I quit walking in the light then NONE of my sins will be washed away.

....The scripture teaches salvation is in Christ.....and we should walk like him
----------------------------------------
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
---------------------------------------------
...And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
--------------------------------------------------

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
------------------------------------
For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
-----------------------------------
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

 

[Alligator]

No offence Croc, but this argument was lost the very micro-second that works got attached to Jesus for salvation and or to keep salvation....

So you say.

 

[notuptome]

So you say.

And so it goes. Unrepentant, uncorrectable, unyielding and set for chastisement.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[newbirth]

The very scriptures you quote and then miss-apply to salvation proves my point.....again we must understand that people who believe in works for salvation are not saved and cannot understand the word of God as they have believed a gospel of a different kind...no surprise that you consistently apply scriptures and tie scriptures to salvation which have nothing at all to do with salvation!

The Gospel is about salvation ...what are you talking about ? Take salvation from the gospel and what do you have? What did Christ die for if not to save us?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Gospel is about salvation ...what are you talking about ? Take salvation from the gospel and what do you have? What did Christ die for if not to save us?

well if we listen to you we do not even have salvation. We have a pseudo-salvation which is no salvation at all.

 

[TJ]

Salvation is of God in it's entirety.

But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, BUT OF GOD. (John 1:12-13 ESV)

Now tell me who is more powerful? man or God? Who is capable of keeping us? Is it possible that the one who called us has every intention of keeping those He called to Himself?

 

[martin32]

My grandmother was convinced that anyone could be saved and once you had you belong to god and god never gives up on you.
She always said that men are imperfect and god recognises this so gives us every opportunity to return should we choose to

 

[apostolic862004]

I have over and over stated mere belief is NOT enough to save you..

Eternally, correct me if I am wrong but you stated in another post that believing and having faith are not the same. Could you explain the difference?

 

[krow]

You are reciting what you have been taught, not what the bible teaches. I agree that salvation is a gift. I don't agree that once you receive the gift that you can't throw it away or lose it. The bible teaches against what you have been taught. You guys teach that God wont force you to take salvation, but once you take it, he will force you to keep it. That's not bible.

Those who are truly saved have a new nature, and the Holy Spirit is always ministering to their spirit and convicting them of sin. That never stops for the believer ever. If it was possible for somone to lose it they couldn't hear the Holy Spirit anymore. From what I have seen those who really obtain salvation never give it up and those who thought they had it deluded themselves. The sign that someone persists shows that they were really saved to begin with, those who fall away never had it, they had a shadow of it and chose to reject it, a form of "Godliness" but they denied the power of it.

4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

Basically referring to those who were shown the light, considered it for a time and received some conviction of the Holy Spirit but it never produced repentance. They played the game for awhile then realized it wasn't for them and went back to to what they were doing before, after the Spirit gave them full knowledge of their need for Christ. Once you pull away from the Spirit the last time He knocks on the heart one cannot be brought to repentance.

 

[krow]

and...My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.…Myself includes no one right? A true believer will never remain in habitual sin forever. If so they were just someone playing along.

 

[newbirth]

well if we listen to you we do not even have salvation. We have a pseudo-salvation which is no salvation at all.

don't just say things back quote me don't bring the debate down to the level of just throwing words around

 

[tourist]

I'll look at the article later when I have some time to think through it. But I do want to say that the way I've been taught is that we are saved for eternity, but that does not give us a free ticket to do what we want. Rather, it means we are then called to share our hope and the Gospel of Salvation to others. We are called to live a Holy life. And when we walk away from God, that it's the Fellowship that we lose, not our Salvation. Similar to how the prodigal son lost his fellowship with his father, but not his relationship. I brought up the question with Hebrews 6 in mine, because I know that if we were to lose salvation, we could never ever obtain it again. We would be lost for all eternity. This does not jive with Christ's story of the prodigal son. And while I realize that you may consider that man be lost because of sin, and then later becoming saved. It seems to differ with the other two stories that are often read along with this parable as well.

Anyway, my point is, that while I believe in Salvation is eternal and will not be taken away, I do not believe that it gives me a free ticket to do whatever I want. Instead, I am called to live a changed life, a life that Glorifies God. I also believe that if I were to do whatever sin I wanted, then I never truly became saved, only just mouthed some words to make someone happy or tried to fool God.

I believe in what you have said.

 

[newbirth]

Those who are truly saved have a new nature, and the Holy Spirit is always ministering to their spirit and convicting them of sin. That never stops for the believer ever. If it was possible for somone to lose it they couldn't hear the Holy Spirit anymore. From what I have seen those who really obtain salvation never give it up and those who thought they had it deluded themselves. The sign that someone persists shows that they were really saved to begin with, those who fall away never had it, they had a shadow of it and chose to reject it, a form of "Godliness" but they denied the power of it.

4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age6 and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God.8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

Basically referring to those who were shown the light, considered it for a time and received some conviction of the Holy Spirit but it never produced repentance. They played the game for awhile then realized it wasn't for them and went back to to what they were doing before, after the Spirit gave them full knowledge of their need for Christ. Once you pull away from the Spirit the last time He knocks on the heart one cannot be brought to repentance.

your statement is confusing ...the scripture says .... who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. meaning they had already repented. You say.... but it never produced repentance

What do you mean by truly saved/ ...one is either saved or not.

From what I have seen those who really obtain salvation never give it up and those who thought they had it deluded themselves.

the scripture you quoted says different.this translation makes it even more clear..To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace...this means they did it before.

those who fall away never had it, they had a shadow of it and chose to reject it, a form of "Godliness" but they denied the power of it.

How can one fall away from something they were never a part of?

 

[newbirth]

I'll look at the article later when I have some time to think through it. But I do want to say that the way I've been taught is that we are saved for eternity, but that does not give us a free ticket to do what we want. Rather, it means we are then called to share our hope and the Gospel of Salvation to others. We are called to live a Holy life. And when we walk away from God, that it's the Fellowship that we lose, not our Salvation. Similar to how the prodigal son lost his fellowship with his father, but not his relationship. I brought up the question with Hebrews 6 in mine, because I know that if we were to lose salvation, we could never ever obtain it again. We would be lost for all eternity. This does not jive with Christ's story of the prodigal son. And while I realize that you may consider that man be lost because of sin, and then later becoming saved. It seems to differ with the other two stories that are often read along with this parable as well.

Anyway, my point is, that while I believe in Salvation is eternal and will not be taken away, I do not believe that it gives me a free ticket to do whatever I want. Instead, I am called to live a changed life, a life that Glorifies God. I also believe that if I were to do whatever sin I wanted, then I never truly became saved, only just mouthed some words to make someone happy or tried to fool God.

when one is born again they are cleaned from all past sins and placed in Christ, God gives them power to become a son of God. Fellowship with Christ keeps us clean. Our salvation is in Christ, without that fellowship we have no salvation.
2 Peter 1:9
But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave hepower to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:



1 John 1:6-7
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

 

[SeaBass]

Dude the more you talk the more you prove that you are lost and have no clue as to what the word has to say....Now you are preaching (church) salvation....do you also have a little Catholic in you as well?

Have you ever had sex outside of marriage, have you thought about sex outside marriage? If yes then you too are a fornicator...if no you are either lying, gay or not reached the age of puberty!

Eph 5:23 "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Show me where Christ saves anyone outside the church, outside the body of Christ.


Paul goes on to say about the church

v26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

v27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

The church has been sanctified, cleansed, without spot and blemish. None of this for anyone outside the church.

 

[SeaBass]

Again you prove your inability to perceive the difference between salvation and fellowship......salvation cannot be lost...fellowship can be broken and until you understand that you will remain lost in your gospel of a different kind.....!

1 Jn 1;6,7 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

2 Cor 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for whatfellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

There is no salvation without fellowship with God. One fellowships with God or they have fellowship with the devil, 1 Cor 10:20. No inbetween.