Baptism Essential to Salvation

[notuptome]

It always requires water because that is what the bible requires. See my previous posts with all the scriptures that specifically say IN WATER. Jesus Christ was baptized IN WATER, John baptized people IN WATER. Paul baptized people IN WATER. Phillip baptized people IN WATER! That is why it requires water. We have been commanded to be baptized. We obviously cannot make the Holy Ghost baptize us. That happens when God feels we are ready for it. The only way we can obey that command is to be baptized IN WATER. That means if you are baptized in anything else (kool-aid, soda, mud, whatever) you baptism is in vain because you didn't obey the commandment. See Acts 2:38, Acts 10:47-49.

The bible does not require water baptism. The bible requires Holy Spirit baptism. Jesus breathed upon the disciples in the upper room and said receive ye the Holy Spirit.

Jesus did not need to be water baptized. Jesus never had any sin. Jesus received water baptism for it's symbolism not because it had any efficacy.

Holy Spirit baptism occurs the moment a sinner receives Christ as their Savior. The moment a sinner asks Christ for forgiveness of their sins the Holy Spirit enters their heart and they are saved. A baptism of regeneration. A soul dead in trespass and sin is now made alive in Christ unto God.

If you got saved some other way I would question what is was you got.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[peacefulbeliever]

You see a person that did not get a chance to get water baptized was saved in His case that is grace in effect but if one has the opportunity to do so but so rejects it then in a sense rejects Christ through disobedience as our own and commander Lord Jesus did so by example that we should all follow we can try to configure a gospel of our own accord but as a trully God loving Son I teach true gospel pure and uncut that it may be a benefit to whosoever is willing to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost id still in effect God will grant salvation to whom He wishes but we must be watchful to not reject the gift of the Holy Ghost for this is an atribute due to disbelief for it takes faith to receive anc God will give it to as many as take His calling and ask for the gift it is there just ready to be received

I believe if a person confesses Jesus as Lord and believes in his heart God raised him from the dead - that person is saved. [Romans 10:9,10] and you receive the gift of holy Spirit at the moment you are saved.

 

[SeaBass]

PS: Note that only those who does not believe will be condemned.

I say, depending on your denomination. Both ways are supported by bible verses.

In Mk 16:16 one would also have to note that an unbelieving person is an unbaptized person. So when Jesus said "he that believeth not" this phrase includes the unbaptized.


I am also curious as to what bible verse would you use to support sprinkling for baptism?

 

[SeaBass]

This is the problem with the duck dynasty boys. I love the show, but it has provided Phil Robertson a pulpit to teach his church doctrine that says baptism is required for salvation and its not thats adding works to salvation and then becomes heresy.
Max Lucaddo is another, that one time he says it, and another he dances around it and its real hard to figure out what he really believes so its better to avoid him.

Phil Robertson is preaching what the bible say about the necessity of water baptism.

Salvation is not possible without obedient works.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Paul says you serve either;

1) sin unto death

or

2) obedience unto righteousness.

I serve obedience unto righteousness.

Which do you serve?

Faith only rules out #2.

Faith only is the real heresy here.

 

[SeaBass]

Water baptism is an outward symbol of what's already taken place. Its to let those in the church know who is part and who is not.

No verse defines water baptism as you do here.

 

[SeaBass]

To Atwood and SeaBass, You both have a problem. both are making a bad conclusion not backed up by Scripture. SeaBass you are not reading Jh.. 3 right; You make "born of water" as baptism, but Jesus is answering Nic.'s question of natural birth, Jesus said, Nic, you need more than natural birth, you need the supernatural birth of the Spirit. Atwood, you are reading Jh.3 right, but don't know the whole truth of being born of the Spirit. The Salvation experience of God is universal and the same for all ages. Adam and Eve were "baptized by the Spirit" into the body of Christ, The one Church of Christ, God. Jesus did not ,however, give Nic. the whole truth of "the new birth". There is a "washing" in the new birth, not by lit.water, but by the Spirit, a spiritual washing away of our guilty conscience, Jh. 3 does not teach this, it is taught in Jh, 13:10 "He who is bathed" "you are clean, but not all of you." Judas still had a guilty conscience, not born again. And 1Cor, 6:11, "washed" clean in conscience" and "sanctified" renewed by the Spirit, and "justified", by grace and faith. "by the Spirit". Also Tit.3:5, "the washing of regeneration and the renewal of the Holy Spirit", cleansing of conscience and rebuilt, renewed, by the Spirit. Water has a spiritual meaning= the Word of God. We are born again by the word, 1 Pet.1:3, Janes 1:18 and Eph.5:5:26. God uses His Word and power in giving us the new birth. Therefore ,If we are born of the Spirit , we will FEEL clean ; If one still has a guilty conscience they are not saved, not born of God, if one has no hunger for God and truth, they are not born of God. If we are saved ,we will FEEl saved. And we must keep in the word so we will be cleansed of daily sins. Salvation is more than being justified. Love to all, Hoffco

The bible is its own best commentary and not those with a bias against the bible teachings on water baptism.

The bible clearly, plainly, explicitly, comprehensibly, coherently, simply, straightforwardly, unambiguously, understandably, shows born of water is water baptism.


Jn 3:5----------------Spirit+++++++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1 Cor 12;13----------Spirit+++++++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>>>in the body
Titus 3:5------------Holy Spirit+++++++washing of regen.>>>>>>>>>saved
Eph 5:26------------the Word+++++++washing of water>>>>>>>>>>>cleansed


1 Cor 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Washed is reference to the Corinthians haveing been water baptized, 1 Cor 1:14,16; 1 Cor 12;13.

The verb washed is middle voice meaning the subject, showing the Corinthians 'had yourselves washed'. They had obeyed the commanded to be water baptism by submitting themselves to water baptism.
They actively submitted themselves to being washed and were passively sanctified/justified by God.

This washing was "in the name of the Lord Jesus" just as the water baptism of Acts 2:38; Acts 10:47.48 is in the name of Jesus Christ.

Note also this washing comes BEFORE sanctification/justification so it brought about their justification by the Spirit of God.

Jn 3:5--------------------Spirit+++++++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1Cor 12:13--------------Spirit+++++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>in the body
1 Cor 6:11----------Spirit of God+++++++++++washed>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sanctified/justified

 

[dcontroversal]

Was Abel, Enoch, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob immersed?
Was Rahab Immersed?
When was David immersed, or Daniel?
What about the thief on the cross?<---no murderer hath eternal life dwelling in him and he was being put to death for murder and thievery so he could not have been saved until that moment on the cross...
John the Baptist was not immersed...

Are you saying the above were not saved?

I will tell you what they had which was the OUTWARD SIGN OF THIER INWARD FAITH....Except RAHAB..they were all whacked!

Baptism IS the OUTWARD, PUBLIC TESTIMONY of INWARD FAITH, IS THE FIRST ACT of OBEDIENCE as a CHILD of GOD and has nothing to do with the particular act of SALVATION!

ABRAHAM had FAITH before CIRCUMCISION!

 

[SeaBass]

Originally Posted by Atwood

As a human act, water baptism is a human work, thus it cannot save.
Faith is the only human act (Must-I-Do) required for salvation.
The multitude of verses indicating only faith proves water baptism cannot be essential. The evidence is already posted below in 2 long posts.

Rom 6:16 Paul said obeidnce unto righteousness. So Christ's save those that obey him, Heb 5:9

Eph 2

but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

The Ephesains were water baptized:

Eph 2:8---------------faith>>>>>>>saves
1Pet3:21-----------baptism>>>>>>saves

Since there is just one way to be saved, then the Ephesians MUst have been water baptized.

2) Eph 1:1-9 Paul said these CHristian Ephesians were "in Him' - 'in Christ'. Gal :27 baptism is the way to be in Christ. No verses says faith only puts one in Christ.

3) Acts 19:5 Some Ephesians were baptized "in the name of the Lord" This "baptism in the name of the Lord" is the same water baptism of Acts 2:38; Acts 10:47,48.

4)
Jn 3:5----------------------spirit++++++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
Eph 5:26---------------the Word+++++++++washing of water>>>>>>>cleansed

Acts 16:
"Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.

Believe is the only must-I-do.
The jailer did get water baptized soon after,
but water baptism is never a must-I-do for salvation.

The jailer in Acts 16, as the Jews in Acts 2:37 asked what they must do and NONE were told to believe only.

"Arise and be baptized. And wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord."

Let us punctuate the verse so that it agrees with the rest of scripture.

For whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. In context the call is a call of faith in Rom 10:13

Water baptism is a human work, thus it cannot save, as Eph 2 tells us, "now by works."

Now Spirit baptism is not a human work, it is something done to all believers without consulting them, when they trust the Lord Jesus as Savior. (1 Cor 12:13).

Peter in Acts 2:21 quoted Joels' poprhecy that wosoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be sved.

This prophecy of Joel was fulfilled in Acts 2:38

Acts 2:21-------call upon the name of the Lord>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saved
Acts 2:38-------- repent and be baptized>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>remission of sins

Only one way to be saved/remission of sins so calling upon the name of the Lord means repenting and being baptized as the Lord said to do, Lk 6;46.

Eph 2:9 eliminates works of merits not "obedience unto righteousness: Rom 6;16.

 

[SeaBass]

Was Abel, Enoch, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob immersed?
Was Rahab Immersed?
When was David immersed, or Daniel?
What about the thief on the cross?<---no murderer hath eternal life dwelling in him and he was being put to death for murder and thievery so he could not have been saved until that moment on the cross...
John the Baptist was not immersed...

Are you saying the above were not saved?

I will tell you what they had which was the OUTWARD SIGN OF THIER INWARD FAITH....Except RAHAB..they were all whacked!

Baptism IS the OUTWARD, PUBLIC TESTIMONY of INWARD FAITH, IS THE FIRST ACT of OBEDIENCE as a CHILD of GOD and has nothing to do with the particular act of SALVATION!

ABRAHAM had FAITH before CIRCUMCISION!

You are referring to those that lived under the OT law and therefore are not examples of NT salvation. Christ had not shed His blood when these people were alive so they never had water baptism for remission of sins. The had to make burnt offerings/animal sacrifices for their sins but could never get complete remission of sins being without the blood of Christ.

 

[Alligator]

Was Abel, Enoch, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob immersed?
Was Rahab Immersed?
When was David immersed, or Daniel?
What about the thief on the cross?<---no murderer hath eternal life dwelling in him and he was being put to death for murder and thievery so he could not have been saved until that moment on the cross...
John the Baptist was not immersed...

Are you saying the above were not saved?

I will tell you what they had which was the OUTWARD SIGN OF THIER INWARD FAITH....Except RAHAB..they were all whacked!

Baptism IS the OUTWARD, PUBLIC TESTIMONY of INWARD FAITH, IS THE FIRST ACT of OBEDIENCE as a CHILD of GOD and has nothing to do with the particular act of SALVATION!

ABRAHAM had FAITH before CIRCUMCISION!

are you serious? Surely you realize that these people all lived under the old Law where baptism was not required for the remission of the sins as it is today. See Heb. 9:16-17. Also, baptism is described as representative of the death burial and resurrection of Christ. The people could not have been baptized into Christ since he wasn't even born yet.

 

[dcontroversal]

You are referring to those that lived under the OT law and therefore are not examples of NT salvation. Christ had not shed His blood when these people were alive so they never had water baptism for remission of sins. The had to make burnt offerings/animal sacrifices for their sins but could never get complete remission of sins being without the blood of Christ.

SAVED is SAVED and the O.T. saints were saved the same way N.T. saints are saved...by FAITH so...Sea Perch you should lay off the (smoke) and come to the light....I am still waiting for an answer in Once saved always saved that you seem to be unable or unwilling to answer.....

Here I will post again seeing how it goes unanswered!

So...do you loose your salvation instantly or do you have like 24 hours to repent before you loose your salvation...maybe 36 hours?


Originally Posted by SeaBass

Any sin a Christian will not repent of.


1 Jn 1:7 as long as the Christian CONTINUES to walk in the light, then Christ blood CONTINUES to wash away all sins.

If I quit walking in the light then NONE of my sins will be washed away.

 

[dcontroversal]

are you serious? Surely you realize that these people all lived under the old Law where baptism was not required for the remission of the sins as it is today. See Heb. 9:16-17. Also, baptism is described as representative of the death burial and resurrection of Christ. The people could not have been baptized into Christ since he wasn't even born yet.

Read post 211 and follow the same instructions I gave to Sea Perch......

 

[newbirth]

Re: As Salvation is Offered Just for Faith So Many Times, H2O Is Not Essential

I posted a ton of verses below where it is only faith or believing that saves.

"Sirs, what must I do to be saved? Believe . . . ." Acts 16

This is a must do, believe. Water baptism is never called a must-do for salvation.
It is a work, and human works do not save.

The rare verses (which do not mention water) which associate baptism with salvation, cannot overrule the fact that a ton of verses which only require faith. If you believe & eat beans, yes you will be saved. But the beans are not essential for salvation.

The Lord does not make false promises or false advertisements.

It is very sad to see a man teaching something he does not even have a clue about...We are saved by grace through faith....and here you are teaching saved by faith alone...This is an evangelical message this is not what you tell someone who wants a clear understanding of the word. In a general sense one will say, believe in the Lord and you shall be saved. But if that someone is not taught the word ,what is he believing, does he even know what he is saved from.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Re: As Salvation is Offered Just for Faith So Many Times, H2O Is Not Essential

It is very sad to see a man teaching something he does not even have a clue about...We are saved by grace through faith....and here you are teaching saved by faith alone...This is an evangelical message this is not what you tell someone who wants a clear understanding of the word. In a general sense one will say, believe in the Lord and you shall be saved. But if that someone is not taught the word ,what is he believing, does he even know what he is saved from.

No he is teaching grace through faith. yet again and again you keep saying people teach things they do not.

If you have no desire to find out what someone believes, let us know.

It is faith alone not works. But only because of the grace of God (the pipeline by which faith is used)

If it is of grace, it is not or works, otherwise, grace is no longer grace.

So lets all ignore paul. and add works to grace, because it makes us feel better,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

are you serious? Surely you realize that these people all lived under the old Law where baptism was not required for the remission of the sins as it is today. See Heb. 9:16-17. Also, baptism is described as representative of the death burial and resurrection of Christ. The people could not have been baptized into Christ since he wasn't even born yet.

hey my friend. People are saved today as they were back then, there is no difference.

Baptism was required in the OT. If you were a gentile. you were required to be baptized to enter the covenant of Israel. And all priests were required to be baptised when they were annointed priests.

the only thing which changed, was now all jews need to be baptized. not just priest. As for gentiles. Nothing changed at all.

 

[newbirth]

Originally Posted by Atwood

As a human act, water baptism is a human work, thus it cannot save.
Faith is the only human act (Must-I-Do) required for salvation.
The multitude of verses indicating only faith proves water baptism cannot be essential. The evidence is already posted below in 2 long posts.

You teach contrary to scripture, we are saved by grace through faith and faith without works is dead (Must-I-Do)is a work of faith. Is it not obedience to the word you want faith to be void it cannot be.



Eph 2

but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

Acts 16:
"Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.

Believe is the only must-I-do.
The jailer did get water baptized soon after,
but water baptism is never a must-I-do for salvation.


"Arise and be baptized. And wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord."

Let us punctuate the verse so that it agrees with the rest of scripture.

For whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. In context the call is a call of faith in Rom 10:13

Water baptism is a human work, thus it cannot save, as Eph 2 tells us, "now by works."

Now Spirit baptism is not a human work, it is something done to all believers without consulting them, when they trust the Lord Jesus as Savior. (1 Cor 12:13).

We cannot confuse how we are saved, to ,what must we do to be saved. It is evident we must do something to be saved(through faith) even though God has saved us by his grace.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We cannot confuse how we are saved, to ,what must we do to be saved. It is evident we must do something to be saved(through faith) even though God has saved us by his grace.

Yeah, And john tells us what that is.

[h=1]John 1:12[/h][SUP]12 [/SUP]But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:



Mere belief is not enough, Many people believe he was who he says he was, and he died for the sin of mankind, But have yet to recieve him.

In order to get on your knees and truly recieve him, You must have faith.

 

[newbirth]

Re: As Salvation is Offered Just for Faith So Many Times, H2O Is Not Essential

No he is teaching grace through faith. yet again and again you keep saying people teach things they do not.

If you have no desire to find out what someone believes, let us know.

It is faith alone not works. But only because of the grace of God (the pipeline by which faith is used)

If it is of grace, it is not or works, otherwise, grace is no longer grace.

So lets all ignore paul. and add works to grace, because it makes us feel better,

I posted a ton of verses below where it is only faith or believing that saves.

this is his quote

The rare verses (which do not mention water) which associate baptism with salvation, cannot overrule the fact that a ton of verses which only require faith

I call them as I see them

It is faith alone not works. But only because of the grace of God (the pipeline by which faith is used)

this is what I call babble...

 

[Apostol2013]

1) the fact water baptism was commanded, if for no other reason, makes water baptism essential. Acts 2:41, one has not accepted the gospel message until he has been water baptized, ie, not being water baptized is rejection of the gospel message.

2) Acts 10:35 Cornelius would have to 'work righteousness' to be accepted with God. Psa 119:172 says all God's commandments are righteousness, therefore God's command to be water baptized is righteousness therefore Cornelius would not be accepted with God until he "worked righteousness" ie, obeyed God's command to be water baptized.

3) no event in Acts 10 changes, re arranges, negates the order of Acts 2:38; Mk 16:16 that put water baptism BEFORE salvation.

4) no kind of "spirit baptism" is the like manner way Jew and Gentiles in the book of Acts were saved. Water baptism was the common thread, the like manner way in those conversions.

5) there is one baptism in effect. Proper exegesis of Eph 4:5 is taking baptize at its literal meaning, a literal immersion in water.
F.F. Bruce: “baptism in the New Testament is always baptism in water unless the context shows it to be something else; that is to say, the word is always to be understood literally unless the context indicates a figurative meaning” (Questions Answered, p. 106). Baptism is not used figuratively in Eph 4:5, it's a literal water immersion. This must mean then that 1 Cor 1:14,16 and 1 Cor 12:13 both refer to the one WATER baptism of Eph 4:5, else one creates two baptisms contrary to Eph 4:5 by trying to make 1 Cor 12:13 some kind of "spirit baptism"

This question i will ask that you will understand a little what if a peeson accepts christ on his point of death would that person be saved ? Taking into consideration that that person had no time to be baptized? I believe grace would cover this area what do you say ?

 

[newbirth]

Yeah, And john tells us what that is.

John 1:12

[SUP]12 [/SUP]But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:



Mere belief is not enough, Many people believe he was who he says he was, and he died for the sin of mankind, But have yet to recieve him.

In order to get on your knees and truly recieve him, You must have faith.

He gave you the right to become a child of God.....are you exercising that right?...are you being transformed into a child of God? are you walking in the light of God? are performing righteous works, or are you just believing him to do it for you?