BEWARE the Lawkeepers

[gotime]

so in essence we can't sin, so why do we get mad at others, and sin, nothing wrong in getting mad, just when it manifests to not loving our neighbor as self and a little deeper as Christ loved us, and loves us all
And most here do not sin in public, no we sin at home to our other half's, yell, scream and fight, tell our kids behave or else. that really shows we are a child of the living God and really acted like it yes or no to all
So can you obey completely, and if you are doing these things behind closed doors, then maybe it is you the self that is in the way to do what God has called you to do.
So maybe stop being an imitator in public, and not a participator as shown behind closed doors. Just maybe be a participator in Christ's finished work for you all?
I remember my times in fighting and arguing, and wanting all things to go right the way I see them from my interpretations of the word, and those closest to me better get in line
Oh how I was so wrong, anyway praying for all to see the Man in the mirror, and from there on it is a bumpy ride to come to the whole truth and nothing but the truth found in Christ to Father

I like this, but the true power of God manifests itself everywhere. You can ask my wife and my kids. In fact they are the ones who know the truth about me better than any other. I am not ashamed of anyone talking to my kids and my wife because they with me will testify of the change that God has made.

My wife and I never fight ever anymore. Jesus has given both me and my wife such patience that we deal calmly with our kids in every situation. Gods love is powerful.

I am persuaded that Christ is able to change us totally. My church will testify also of the power of God to change our hearts.

It is a lack of faith that stops us from having these qualities that are found in Jesus.

 

[KohenMatt]

I disagree in a huge way. The law would not tell me how to return the dog. God does. through his love shown me.

All the law may be able to do is prove how I failed to love, (yet considering I repented and came to Christ, I already know what a failure I am. so the law can not even help there) it can not show me how to love.

With all due respect, this sounds completely bonkers.

When you read this:

“You shall not see your countryman’s ox or his sheep straying away, and pay no attention to them; you shall certainly bring them back to your countryman." -Deuteronomy 22:1

how does this NOT tell you how to return the dog? How does this instruction prove how you "failed to love"? The only way it proves to you how you "failed to love" is if you didn't return your neighbor's dog.

You said that God tells you how to return the dog. God wrote the Law. He told you how to return the dog.

 

[kennethcadwell]

The law was our tutor to show us what sin is, and to lead us away from it so that we can be closer to God.

By our Lord Jesus crucifixion on the cross to give us remission of those sins, we no longer now are under that tutor for we should no longer be taught but now know right from wrong. But come to acceptance of our sin, and repent of them.

We are then to try and walk a good life producing good works ( fruit ), and when we backslide we are to ask for forgiveness of that sin we have done to cause the back slide, and repent of it.

If you continue in willful sin, with out repentance or forgiveness of that sin you will not be saved.

We all sin, the difference is do you repent and ask forgiveness of that sin when you do it ?

I disagree in a huge way. The law would not tell me how to return the dog. God does. through his love shown me.

All the law may be able to do is prove how I failed to love, (yet considering I repented and came to Christ, I already know what a failure I am. so the law can not even help there) it can not show me how to love.

 

[haz]

Exo 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying:
Exo 20:2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

And Christians are even today going through the wilderness experience, the trial of our faith. We've been led out of Egypt (the flesh/bondage) and look forward to the promised land. Those who continue to believe on Jesus will enter into God's rest.

But those who turn back and rebuild what they had destroyed (righteousness by works of the law), they make themselves a transgressor/Sinner, Gal 2:18.
When you bring yourself back under the law then you only succeed in making yourself a sinner as you will not be able to keep the law perfectly, as is required (James 2:10). You even admit yourself that you fail to keep the law perfectly.

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail.

Nobody has any issue against the law, as you legalists always falsely allege.

The issue has always been grace verses works of the law.
Righteousness by faith verses righteousness by works of the law.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

True, that is one of God's definitions of sin.

Note also what God says in relation to that definition.
Rom 3:19
Whatever the law says, it says to those under it.

Gal 3:12
The law is not of faith.


Note 2Cor 3:7-11
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious

 

[RedTent]

I disagree in a huge way. The law would not tell me how to return the dog. God does. through his love shown me.

All the law may be able to do is prove how I failed to love, (yet considering I repented and came to Christ, I already know what a failure I am. so the law can not even help there) it can not show me how to love.

All posters who are against the word of the Lord always use this argument. They quote a truth of the bible, and use that truth to say that all other truths have then been cancelled by the truth they quote.

Demons used this same tactic when Jesus was tempted those 40 days. It won't work for those who listen to Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The law was our tutor to show us what sin is, and to lead us away from it so that we can be closer to God.

That is not what scripture says, it says the law was a tutor to bring us to Christ. It leads us to christ, It does not show us how to lead us away from sin, if it could do that. Israel would have been the most moral people on earth.

We see that even when they followed the law. Jesus claimed they were some of the worse sinners on earth.

By our Lord Jesus crucifixion on the cross to give us remission of those sins, we no longer now are under that tutor for we should no longer be taught but now know right from wrong. But come to acceptance of our sin, and repent of them.

Again, Jesus showed us how. the law of Love. Follow the spirit. The law is powerless to do anything for a child of God.

We are then to try and walk a good life producing good works ( fruit ), and when we backslide we are to ask for forgiveness of that sin we have done to cause the back slide, and repent of it.

If you continue in willful sin, with out repentance or forgiveness of that sin you will not be saved.

That is teaching law. You are under law. not grace All you share is fear. for you can not live up to the standard God gave. And you can not even see it, That saddens me my friend. to think you are a morally good person. you do not know the law. or Gods moral standard.

We all sin, the difference is do you repent and ask forgiveness of that sin when you do it ?

We all sin. If we do not Have Christ as our high priest, we are doomed. If we have to confess everytime, we are back under law minus the sacrifices, and have to earn salvation. Making salvation a reward not a gift. This is not found in scripture.

You do not repent of the same sin over and over, that is mocking God and that sin. Gods knows your weaknesses, he will help. if you ask.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

With all due respect, this sounds completely bonkers.

When you read this:

“You shall not see your countryman’s ox or his sheep straying away, and pay no attention to them; you shall certainly bring them back to your countryman." -Deuteronomy 22:1

how does this NOT tell you how to return the dog? How does this instruction prove how you "failed to love"? The only way it proves to you how you "failed to love" is if you didn't return your neighbor's dog.

You said that God tells you how to return the dog. God wrote the Law. He told you how to return the dog.

Yet as paul said, The gentiles, who did not have the law. did the same thing.

So what is bonkers is thinking you need the law to show you have to be a moral person.

If I love my neighbor. I do not need the law to tell me to return the dog. This is bonkers. when people who have never had the law. or do not even know it. do the very same thing.

 

[KohenMatt]

Yet as paul said, The gentiles, who did not have the law. did the same thing.

So what is bonkers is thinking you need the law to show you have to be a moral person.

If I love my neighbor. I do not need the law to tell me to return the dog. This is bonkers. when people who have never had the law. or do not even know it. do the very same thing.

So what do you "need" to be a moral person?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

All posters who are against the word of the Lord always use this argument.

who is against the word of the lord? What a foolish response with no meat. You claim everyone who understand how to follow the law of love and the spirit are against the word of God. How so?

They quote a truth of the bible, and use that truth to say that all other truths have then been cancelled by the truth they quote.

What is cancelled? Nothing has been cancelled. It has been fulfilled. HUGE difference.

but you do not want to hear this. You need the law to make you think you are a moral person. If you would stop focusing on the law. And start focusing on the law of love, and seeking the spirit. You would see what an immoral person you are (like Paul did in romans 7) and not make such rude, untruthful accusations against others.

Demons used this same tactic when Jesus was tempted those 40 days. It won't work for those who listen to Christ.

yep they did. And it did not work. Because jesus did not think of self (carnal) he thought of others (namely you and me)

What is your focus on? the law (we know where your focus is) or on loving and serving others. as paul says, against which there IS NO LAW)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So what do you "need" to be a moral person?

1. love others
2. Crucify (kill) self (self interest)

do this, and you will not break the law.

when you are self focused, No matter what you do (even if it is a morally good thing) you will commit sin. which is why Paul said, it is not me that sin, but my flesh (self interest carnal mind)

seek the things of the spirit (serving and loving others) and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

No law here.

all the law can do is give you a false sense of security that you are a moral person (ie the pharisees)

 

[kennethcadwell]

Yes but how do we come to Christ through the law? By recognizing are faults (sins) and repenting from them.

If you do not repent from them, you do not know Christ, and He will say to you, I do not know you.

None of the Jews followed the law perfectly, so you saying they would have been the most moral people is wrong. They broke the laws just as much as anybody else.

No teaching that we must produce good works is not putting one under law. You produce those works out of love, not law/obligation.

No you do not confess of the same sin over and over, when you back slide it is a new sin you are committing not the same sin.

Example: If you lied in 1986 you repent/ask forgiveness of that sin, if you then tell a lie in 2004 it is a new sin that needs repentance/forgiveness asked for.

The bible says when sin arises in your heart, you are to repent from it and not let it reign in your body again so that it becomes full grown, which will then lead to death.

That is not what scripture says, it says the law was a tutor to bring us to Christ. It leads us to christ, It does not show us how to lead us away from sin, if it could do that. Israel would have been the most moral people on earth.

We see that even when they followed the law. Jesus claimed they were some of the worse sinners on earth.



Again, Jesus showed us how. the law of Love. Follow the spirit. The law is powerless to do anything for a child of God.



That is teaching law. You are under law. not grace All you share is fear. for you can not live up to the standard God gave. And you can not even see it, That saddens me my friend. to think you are a morally good person. you do not know the law. or Gods moral standard.



We all sin. If we do not Have Christ as our high priest, we are doomed. If we have to confess everytime, we are back under law minus the sacrifices, and have to earn salvation. Making salvation a reward not a gift. This is not found in scripture.

You do not repent of the same sin over and over, that is mocking God and that sin. Gods knows your weaknesses, he will help. if you ask.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes but how do we come to Christ through the law? By recognizing are faults (sins) and repenting from them.

my friend, This is not what the boble says. For one you can not even know your faults before you come to Christ. Maybe a few of them (like the big ones if you do them) but to know all your sin, this is impossible.

Paul tells us what the law does. why do you not listen to him.

Gal 3:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”[SUP][e][/SUP] [SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.”[SUP][f][/SUP] [SUP]12 [/SUP]Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”[SUP][g][/SUP]

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”[SUP][h][/SUP]), [SUP]14 [/SUP]that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

The curse of the law is what you and I and everyone else needs saved from. Why? we have not obeyed EVERY WORD.

If you do not repent from them, you do not know Christ, and He will say to you, I do not know you.

I hate to say if friend, I venture to say when we all get to heaven we will find out we committed many sins we did nto even know was sin. let alone, you want a baby Christian to be able to know what all sin is so he can repent of them? What you asking is an impossible act

None of the Jews followed the law perfectly, so you saying they would have been the most moral people is wrong. They broke the laws just as much as anybody else.

Yep. which is why they needed Christ, they law could not help them be moral people

But Jesus showed they did obey it BETTER than anyone else. when he claimed unless our righteousness exceded theirs (I suggest no one in this room even comes close to this) we have no hope of entering. So we are doomed already, and as you claim, they were not very good at it. so how could any one be saved according to your gospel?

No teaching that we must produce good works is not putting one under law. You produce those works out of love, not law/obligation.

sorry, but teaching one must do good works, and confess every time they sin IS putting one under law.

One under grace is forgiven, Yet chastened, and moves forward hopefully placing more faith in Christ next time the temptation comes a calling.

No you do not confess of the same sin over and over, when you back slide it is a new sin you are committing not the same sin.

and were is this in scripture?

You break the least of the law your guilty of the whole law? any sin you commit places you under a curse of the law my friend.

Example: If you lied in 1986 you repent/ask forgiveness of that sin, if you then tell a lie in 2004 it is a new sin that needs repentance/forgiveness asked for.

lol. No it is the same sin.

in both cases I became carnal. And I chose to be selfish and protect self, instead of loving others. they were the same self centered sin. Thats the problem with falling under law. and trying to follow it. You do not realise what sin realy is and where the power of sin comes from.

The bible says when sin arises in your heart, you are to repent from it and not let it reign in your body again so that it becomes full grown, which will then lead to death.

yep it may lead to death, Many a drunken drivers are DEAD today because they let sin reign in their mortal bodies. Many an adulterer and fornicator are DEAD today because of an STD. Many a thief are DEAD today because they were killed in the action by someone trying to protect the one he was trying to steel from. Many a drug addict are DEAD today because the drugs they took killed them.

 

[KohenMatt]

1. love others
2. Crucify (kill) self (self interest)

do this, and you will not break the law.

when you are self focused, No matter what you do (even if it is a morally good thing) you will commit sin. which is why Paul said, it is not me that sin, but my flesh (self interest carnal mind)

seek the things of the spirit (serving and loving others) and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

No law here.

all the law can do is give you a false sense of security that you are a moral person (ie the pharisees)

Do you think there are any practical instructions in the Bible of HOW to love your neighbor?

 

[2Thewaters]

Funny thread!
Beware the LAWKEEPERS!
sounds like something DANGEROUS!
watch out for those people they wont kill you they wont steal from you they wont lie to you,
there must be something wrong with them!

too funny!

 

[kennethcadwell]

EG, first of all there will be many sins that we forget we made, or do not realize were sins.

That is why you ask God through our Lord Jesus Christ for forgiveness of anything you have done that you have forgotten.
Then you fully trust that He will forgive you, and cast those sins away to never be used against you ever again.

If you EG do not know what sin is, I pray to God through our Lord Jesus Christ that He open your eyes so that you can see.

For anything that is against or put before God and His laws is sin.

Nobody will walk perfectly in those laws, which yes why we are to be saved from the curse of the law. ( spiritual death )

If you continue to walk in darkness ( willful non-repented sin ) you will not be saved.

The curse of the law is not physical death, it is spiritual death ( cast into the lake of fire ).

If the curse was physical death, then no Christian would physically die, and the Apostles except for John would not have been crucified or beat to death.

 

[2Thewaters]

Do you think there are any practical instructions in the Bible of HOW to love your neighbor?

YES!

like noah said REPENT WE LOVE YOU
REPENT GET IN THE BOAT
REPENT WE DONT WANT TO SEE YOU DIE!

What do you think Noah was doing
as the rain fell and he heard the shreaks of the people outside
cryng and pounding
saying NOAH LET US IN LET US IN WE're SORRY NOW

he was crying....
yes he was.

He wondered I'm sure, what did I do wrong
i have this huge boat and no one got in
what did I say worng what could I have done differently

sad.

 

[RedTent]

who is against the word of the lord? What a foolish response with no meat. You claim everyone who understand how to follow the law of love and the spirit are against the word of God. How so?

What is cancelled? Nothing has been cancelled. It has been fulfilled. HUGE difference.

but you do not want to hear this. You need the law to make you think you are a moral person. If you would stop focusing on the law. And start focusing on the law of love, and seeking the spirit. You would see what an immoral person you are (like Paul did in romans 7) and not make such rude, untruthful accusations against others.

yep they did. And it did not work. Because jesus did not think of self (carnal) he thought of others (namely you and me)

What is your focus on? the law (we know where your focus is) or on loving and serving others. as paul says, against which there IS NO LAW)

All those who say one scripture makes another of no use is against the word of God. If you do that you are, if you don't do that you aren't.

I have read your posts enough to know you say when the Lord fulfilled something it means the Lord had nothing to do with fulfilling but getting rid of what was there in the first place.

You are constantly playing God saying you know my spirit and all my thoughts. You are not God. You are not to say I am a fool, yet you say vile things about me: Now, immoral person. That I use the law to consider myself moral. You are just making yourself foolish to only throw stones.

 

[2Thewaters]

this remonds me of the cargo cults

it is a belief system that builds on itself

Cargo cults are marked by a number of common characteristics, including a "myth-dream" that is a synthesis of indigenous and foreign elements; the expectation of help from the ancestors; charismatic leaders; and lastly, belief in the appearance of an abundance of goods.[SUP][7][/SUP]
The indigenous societies of Melanesia were typically characterized by a "big man" political system in which individuals gained prestige through gift exchanges. The more wealth a man could distribute, the more people in his debt, and the greater his renown. Those who were unable to reciprocate were identified as "rubbish men". Faced, through colonialism, with foreigners with a seemingly unending supply of goods for exchange, indigenous Melanesians experienced "value dominance". That is, they were dominated by others in terms of their own (not the foreign) value system; exchange with foreigners left them feeling like Rubbish men.[SUP][8][/SUP]
Since the modern manufacturing process is unknown to them, members, leaders, and prophets of the cults maintain that the manufactured goods of the non-native culture have been created by spiritual means, such as through their deities and ancestors. These goods are intended for the local indigenous people, but the foreigners have unfairly gained control of these objects through malice or mistake.[SUP][9][/SUP] Thus, a characteristic feature of cargo cults is the belief that spiritual agents will, at some future time, give much valuable cargo and desirable manufactured products to the cult members.[SUP][9][/SUP]
Symbols associated with Christianity and modern Western society tend to be incorporated into their rituals as magical artifacts, for example the use of cross-shaped grave markers. Notable examples of cargo cult activity include the setting up of mock airstrips, airports, offices, and dining rooms, as well as the fetishization and attempted construction of Western goods, such as radios made of coconuts and straw. Believers may stage "drills" and "marches" with sticks for rifles and use military-style insignia and national insignia painted on their bodies to make them look like soldiers, thereby treating the activities of Western military personnel as rituals to be performed for the purpose of attracting the cargo.[SUP][10][/SUP]

 

[2Thewaters]

When you hear

We're all going to heaven,

it doesnt matter what you do

don't forget to bring money

then something is wrong.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Do you think there are any practical instructions in the Bible of HOW to love your neighbor?

I think there are many examples of people NOT loving, And being self centered. And we can learn from them.

but what does that have to do with focusing on love?

do you need practical examples to show you how to do something?

here is my problem bro.

If we look to law. We can see ourselves as moral people, and as I have seen so many times (yes even in hear) become judgmental. Because arrogant. Become proud (look how God I am , I am not a sinner like that person is) and miss the real meaning of what sin is.

I grew up in churches that gave a high regaurd to the law (yes churches, I spent 20 some years going to many different churches all around the country) and what I saw was arrogant, Judgmental, Hypocritical people who knew nothing about the law. The gospel. or how to act like God wanted them to act (I myself was clueless after 25 - 30 years of indepth study of the OT and new testament)

I was freed when I FINALLY REALISED. the aw has its place (schoolmaster) and after the schoolmaster has done its job, It has been FULFILLED in our lives. Stop focusing on the law. And start focusing on loving others.

I have matured more as a Christian, Have sinned far less, and have much less focus on myself and how God or not good I am doing.

It is freeing, I found, and am still finding the rest God wants me to have, Which can NOT be found under the law.

Maybe you have not found it, and thats why you are like I was, so hesitant to change. but let me tell ya bro. If you find it. You will not imagine the great freedom and growth you will find..