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Do you think our brother, John, would have the woman caught in the very act of adultery stoned to death as the law says? I do not, but the commandment about not committing adultery is still quite valid.
Do you believe I would want someone stoned to death for not honoring the Sabbath? If you do, you are quite wrong.
I believe all who are attempting to get accross to other brethren that the law is good would never include the laws of punishement and death that comes in the law, for we are free of that aspect of the law also, for that aspect is death.
The difference is, we have freedom in grace never to fear the curse of the law anymore, for it was abolished on the Cross with our Savior. He teaches us where mercy should be applied, always concerning the laws, it is to be applied. This is not being under the curse of the law, neither is it being under the law. It is simply loving in a God-like manner following His wonderful instructions to those who are His children.
Obeying the Father can in no manner negate the grace we live in by the Blood of the Lamb.
Now, stop being coy about "under the law," and pay attention to the will of our Father. He knows what He told us to do. He also sent His Only Begotten Son as our Example in every manner, so do as He did. He did it all for you, for me, and for all who love Him. Praise Jesus, Yeshua, amen.
Do you believe I would want someone stoned to death for not honoring the Sabbath? If you do, you are quite wrong.
I believe all who are attempting to get accross to other brethren that the law is good would never include the laws of punishement and death that comes in the law, for we are free of that aspect of the law also, for that aspect is death.
The difference is, we have freedom in grace never to fear the curse of the law anymore, for it was abolished on the Cross with our Savior. He teaches us where mercy should be applied, always concerning the laws, it is to be applied. This is not being under the curse of the law, neither is it being under the law. It is simply loving in a God-like manner following His wonderful instructions to those who are His children.
Obeying the Father can in no manner negate the grace we live in by the Blood of the Lamb.
Now, stop being coy about "under the law," and pay attention to the will of our Father. He knows what He told us to do. He also sent His Only Begotten Son as our Example in every manner, so do as He did. He did it all for you, for me, and for all who love Him. Praise Jesus, Yeshua, amen.
C
In my opinion, Paul was referring to what he said in chapter 6 i.e. the law that a slave must obey his master. A slave of sin could not possibly get away from sin, no matter how hard he tries, unless he's dead or if his master is dead. When either side is dead, the slave would be free. Thus in Christ a slave of sin is now free. The wage is all paid for.
Exactly, just as He said to the woman who was caught in adultery "now go and sin no more".
Exactly, just as He said to the woman who was caught in adultery "now go and sin no more".
2
Psa_119:115
sung to the tune stars and stripes forever
De-part fro-m me, ye -e-vil-do-ers:
for I will keep the com-mand-ments
of my God. my YAH-WEH
Up-hold me ac-cor-ding un-to thy word,
that I may live: and let me not
be ashamed of my hope. Hold thou me up,
and I shall be safe: and I will
have respect un-to thy statutes
continually. .....
amen\
sung to the tune stars and stripes forever
De-part fro-m me, ye -e-vil-do-ers:
for I will keep the com-mand-ments
of my God. my YAH-WEH
Up-hold me ac-cor-ding un-to thy word,
that I may live: and let me not
be ashamed of my hope. Hold thou me up,
and I shall be safe: and I will
have respect un-to thy statutes
continually. .....
amen\
2
they did a psychology study during world war II
the subjected people to propaganda that they TOLD THE PEOPLE was propagande and they told them it was false and nt true
every day they told them the same thing
then they had everyone go home
months later they gave them a test with each one having a propaganda answer
they always picked the false propaganda answer
advertising works
so all those who hear every week false propaganda and never read their Bible they believe it
the only cure is to read the bible more than hear propaganda
so
I encourage you to read your Bibles all the time take one with you wherever you go
and soon
soon
God wil make the light go on
like he did me
hey
hey wait a minute
sunday is NOT in the bible
wow
look at that!
the subjected people to propaganda that they TOLD THE PEOPLE was propagande and they told them it was false and nt true
every day they told them the same thing
then they had everyone go home
months later they gave them a test with each one having a propaganda answer
they always picked the false propaganda answer
advertising works
so all those who hear every week false propaganda and never read their Bible they believe it
the only cure is to read the bible more than hear propaganda
so
I encourage you to read your Bibles all the time take one with you wherever you go
and soon
soon
God wil make the light go on
like he did me
hey
hey wait a minute
sunday is NOT in the bible
wow
look at that!
B
True Brother Don, and it is mind boggling to read over this thread and see so clearly some of that blindness..that even plain English sometimes can't be comprehended, as demonstrated by this particular conversation:
Originally Posted by john832
I am pretty sure no one here has been teaching that we are saved by works of the Law, but some are teaching that Lawlessness is what Christ came to bring...
..and the response:
Originally Posted by haz
hi john832.
Its disappointing to see your still preaching works of the law ( the ministry of condemnation/death, written and engraved in stones 2Cor 3:7.)
The Word says that satan has deceived the whole world, and also that we see as if darkly thru a glass. Possibly one of satan's great deceptions is the way Bibles are worded and that Hebrew doesn't translate well for reason of it being such a rich language, in that a single word conveys sentences rather than just a single best word choice of another language.
Law in the Word is better stated "instructions from God as to the best way to live" and no one here that I've seen is saying that the "law" saves!! Faith in Messiah saves!! and also that faith is not merely belief, faith has arms, legs, a voice, etc..it is what we live and do. It is following Messiah by word and deed and learning of Him, not resting on our laurels waiting to go to heaven.
What should be a sobering thought, is that Almighty knows our thoughts!! What is the heart's desire? To please Almighty? Or to find loop holes in His instructions? hmm it's a question that will at some point be answered, better sooner than later.
Best praise Him, what a great Father we have, so loving so kind and patient, and He desires mercy and not the blood of bulls and goats but has provided for us a lamb once and for all, and what response do we give? Thankfulness, and a desire to do His will to the best of our ability, ..or laziness in seeking His heart, His truth?
Originally Posted by john832
..and the response:
Originally Posted by haz
hi john832.
Its disappointing to see your still preaching works of the law ( the ministry of condemnation/death, written and engraved in stones 2Cor 3:7.)
The Word says that satan has deceived the whole world, and also that we see as if darkly thru a glass. Possibly one of satan's great deceptions is the way Bibles are worded and that Hebrew doesn't translate well for reason of it being such a rich language, in that a single word conveys sentences rather than just a single best word choice of another language.
Law in the Word is better stated "instructions from God as to the best way to live" and no one here that I've seen is saying that the "law" saves!! Faith in Messiah saves!! and also that faith is not merely belief, faith has arms, legs, a voice, etc..it is what we live and do. It is following Messiah by word and deed and learning of Him, not resting on our laurels waiting to go to heaven.
What should be a sobering thought, is that Almighty knows our thoughts!! What is the heart's desire? To please Almighty? Or to find loop holes in His instructions? hmm it's a question that will at some point be answered, better sooner than later.
Best praise Him, what a great Father we have, so loving so kind and patient, and He desires mercy and not the blood of bulls and goats but has provided for us a lamb once and for all, and what response do we give? Thankfulness, and a desire to do His will to the best of our ability, ..or laziness in seeking His heart, His truth?
Try this...
Rom 5:25-27
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
Here is the Amplified version
25 Circumcision does indeed profit if you keep the Law; but if you habitually transgress the Law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 So if a man who is uncircumcised keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be credited to him as [equivalent to] circumcision?
27 Then those who are physically uncircumcised but keep the Law will condemn you who, although you have the code in writing and have circumcision, break the Law.
K
Again, the law is best translated something like this..God's instructions for the best way to live. What did Paul mean by this:"I beseech you therefore brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service" (Rom. 12:1). What does that mean? Look to Torah for the answer since it was from Torah that Paul taught. Acceptable sacrifice had it's head cut off, it's arms, legs, and it's insides washed. Does that mean we are to do likewise? It does, but not in the literal sense, rather let Messiah be your head, and limbs, let Him cleanse you on the inside. Crucify yourself daily..now we are not physically able to crucify ourselves..no. We can shoot ourselves in the head, hang ourselves, take poison, but crucify ourselves? It takes others to do that, it is daily walking in this world shining the light of Messiah, and facing the repercussions.
Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean;
remove the evil of your deeds from before my eyes;
cease to do evil,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] learn to do good;
seek justice,
correct oppression;
bring justice to the fatherless,
plead the widow's cause. [SUP]18 [/SUP]“Come now, let us reason[SUP][c][/SUP] together, says the Lord:
though your sins are like scarlet,
they shall be as white as snow;
though they are red like crimson,
they shall become like wool.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]If you are willing and obedient,
you shall eat the good of the land;
[SUP]20 [/SUP]but if you refuse and rebel,
you shall be eaten by the sword;
for the mouth of the Lord has spoken.”
Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean;
remove the evil of your deeds from before my eyes;
cease to do evil,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] learn to do good;
seek justice,
correct oppression;
bring justice to the fatherless,
plead the widow's cause. [SUP]18 [/SUP]“Come now, let us reason[SUP][c][/SUP] together, says the Lord:
though your sins are like scarlet,
they shall be as white as snow;
though they are red like crimson,
they shall become like wool.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]If you are willing and obedient,
you shall eat the good of the land;
[SUP]20 [/SUP]but if you refuse and rebel,
you shall be eaten by the sword;
for the mouth of the Lord has spoken.”
2
yes good
heres a good one:
Living in the light
1 My little children, I'm writing these things to you so that you don't sin. But if you do sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous one. 2 He is God's way of dealing with our sins, not only ours but the sins of the whole world. 3 This is how we know that we know him: if we keep his commandments. 4 The one who claims, "I know him," while not keeping his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in this person. 5 But the love of God is truly perfected in whoever keeps his word. This is how we know we are in him. 6 The one who claims to remain in him ought to live in the same way as he lived. 7 Dear friends, I'm not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment that you had from the beginning. The old commandment is the message you heard.
2
obedience is important
ph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Paul says exactly which law was abolished
please remember this
the law that is contained in ordinances
leviticus deuteronomy
not the sabbath
the sabbath was given in eden and so was the ten commandments
its not the ten commandments abolished but the Jewish system
ph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Paul says exactly which law was abolished
please remember this
the law that is contained in ordinances
leviticus deuteronomy
not the sabbath
the sabbath was given in eden and so was the ten commandments
its not the ten commandments abolished but the Jewish system
B
You define sin strictly according to the law of what you keep and what you do not keep and not according to the deceitfulness of the human heart or according to the course of this present evil world. You have no answer for how the Gentiles show a work of the law in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness. When they keep the righteousness of the law that is in their heart (being without the law of Moses and uncircumcised), is it not counted as circumcision of the heart?
Are some of you afraid that if you break the law, even off the Sabbath, that your own circumcision of the heart will be counted as uncircumcision or that you will be rejected as a transgressor? Do the uncircumcised Gentiles have an advantage over the Jew who is circumcised? If I was to live under the law, though as a Gentile having the righteousness of the law in my heart, and offended the law by not keeping the Sabbath as a day of rest, I would have to fear that I would become a transgressor. What is the point of the OT law but to point out sin and to condemn the guilty. To be a law abiding keeper of the Torah, which is what you folks really want to do without the law of the NT covenant, you have to know and have the understanding that if you fail to keep THE LAW, then you must become guilty of not keeping it and there has to be consequences for your acts of transgression whether by commission or omission.
Are some of you afraid that if you break the law, even off the Sabbath, that your own circumcision of the heart will be counted as uncircumcision or that you will be rejected as a transgressor? Do the uncircumcised Gentiles have an advantage over the Jew who is circumcised? If I was to live under the law, though as a Gentile having the righteousness of the law in my heart, and offended the law by not keeping the Sabbath as a day of rest, I would have to fear that I would become a transgressor. What is the point of the OT law but to point out sin and to condemn the guilty. To be a law abiding keeper of the Torah, which is what you folks really want to do without the law of the NT covenant, you have to know and have the understanding that if you fail to keep THE LAW, then you must become guilty of not keeping it and there has to be consequences for your acts of transgression whether by commission or omission.