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First my post was not for you. I wrote it after haz, If I do not name it because I am talking to the person who last posted.
But I find you post interesting to say the least.
I can agree with much of what you said here.
The point being however that the very fact that we turn away from sin means we are keeping the law. Not because you are trying to keep it to be saved but because we hate sin. The power of the Holy Spirit enables and changes us so that this can happen.
Why is this so hard for people to understand, If you sin less then you are keeping the law more by default.
For example, It is sin to steal, if a thief stops stealing then he is keeping the law Thou shalt not steal.
If someone lusts in their heart and they accept Jesus sacrifice by faith and receive the Holy Spirit by faith in Gods promises. and the Holy Spirit creates in us a new heart that does not lust. Then by Faith that person is keeping the law. Thou shalt not covet.
what about this is legalistic?
The very act of keeping the law is all the work of Christ in us through the Holy Spirit. All paid in full at the cross.
But I find you post interesting to say the least.
I can agree with much of what you said here.
The point being however that the very fact that we turn away from sin means we are keeping the law. Not because you are trying to keep it to be saved but because we hate sin. The power of the Holy Spirit enables and changes us so that this can happen.
Why is this so hard for people to understand, If you sin less then you are keeping the law more by default.
For example, It is sin to steal, if a thief stops stealing then he is keeping the law Thou shalt not steal.
If someone lusts in their heart and they accept Jesus sacrifice by faith and receive the Holy Spirit by faith in Gods promises. and the Holy Spirit creates in us a new heart that does not lust. Then by Faith that person is keeping the law. Thou shalt not covet.
what about this is legalistic?
The very act of keeping the law is all the work of Christ in us through the Holy Spirit. All paid in full at the cross.
L
The easy road doctrine, the lawbreaker doctrine. If you are not a lawkeeper then you must be a lawbreaker. Anyone can do what you just did.
James 2:20 KJV
(20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Matthew 19:17 KJV
(17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Revelation 22:14 KJV
(14) Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
James 2:20 KJV
(20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Matthew 19:17 KJV
(17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Revelation 22:14 KJV
(14) Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
L
You added words to the text to suit your lawbreaker doctrine. This is what the text says.
1 Timothy 6:14 KJV
(14) That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
You are ignoring texts in the Bible that clearly say to keep the commandments. You try to explain them away with other texts. You water down God's message. No wonder people have so little faith with this lawbreaker doctrine. People need only a little faith with this lawbreaker doctrine.
1 Timothy 6:14 KJV
(14) That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
You are ignoring texts in the Bible that clearly say to keep the commandments. You try to explain them away with other texts. You water down God's message. No wonder people have so little faith with this lawbreaker doctrine. People need only a little faith with this lawbreaker doctrine.
H
Sorry for the late reply. I have limited time on forums, hence still trying to catch up.
As I've said before, I realize that SDA's do not say the law saves.
But they contradict this by preaching that without some unspecified, ambiguous, minimum standard of obedience to the law then we are lost. This view of not supported in scripture.
For example, note your quote below.
So when you say the law does not save, but then preach that one is lost without attaining some unspecified, ambiguous minimum standard of obedience to the law, then you clearly preach a contradiction.
As I've said before, I realize that SDA's do not say the law saves.
But they contradict this by preaching that without some unspecified, ambiguous, minimum standard of obedience to the law then we are lost. This view of not supported in scripture.
For example, note your quote below.
So when you say the law does not save, but then preach that one is lost without attaining some unspecified, ambiguous minimum standard of obedience to the law, then you clearly preach a contradiction.
H
Note how 1Tim 6:14 speaks of "commandment" (singular, not plural).
Clearly its the commandment to believe on Jesus, John 3:16.
And thereby our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5
Also note 1Tim 6:12 "lay hold on eternal life". Clearly this refers to the commandment to believe on Jesus. How else does one receive eternal life? Are you suggesting that we receive eternal life by obeying the law?
"which you were also called and have confessed the good confession", clearly refers to believers who have been called through the gospel of Christ to believe on Jesus. And Christians have confessed that good confession. We "confessed with our mouth the Lord Jesus" Rom 10:9.
As for your charge that we under grace are law breakers, consider Rom 3:19.
Whatever the law says it says to those under it,
Christians are not under the law (Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 3:25, Gal 5;18, 1Tim 1:9) hence we cannot be accused of being a lawbreaker.
Who shall lay any thing (this includes sin) to the charge of God's elect. Rom 8:33
But, legalists are the true lawbreakers. To turn to the law to determine righteousness, in spite of the fact that you cannot keep it perfectly, only results in you becoming a transgressor/sinner. Thus we see that legalists are the workers of iniquity. Whatever the law says it says to them, and as they fail to keep the law perfectly then they're guilty of all the law (James 2:10).
Clearly its the commandment to believe on Jesus, John 3:16.
And thereby our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5
Also note 1Tim 6:12 "lay hold on eternal life". Clearly this refers to the commandment to believe on Jesus. How else does one receive eternal life? Are you suggesting that we receive eternal life by obeying the law?
"which you were also called and have confessed the good confession", clearly refers to believers who have been called through the gospel of Christ to believe on Jesus. And Christians have confessed that good confession. We "confessed with our mouth the Lord Jesus" Rom 10:9.
As for your charge that we under grace are law breakers, consider Rom 3:19.
Whatever the law says it says to those under it,
Christians are not under the law (Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 3:25, Gal 5;18, 1Tim 1:9) hence we cannot be accused of being a lawbreaker.
Who shall lay any thing (this includes sin) to the charge of God's elect. Rom 8:33
But, legalists are the true lawbreakers. To turn to the law to determine righteousness, in spite of the fact that you cannot keep it perfectly, only results in you becoming a transgressor/sinner. Thus we see that legalists are the workers of iniquity. Whatever the law says it says to them, and as they fail to keep the law perfectly then they're guilty of all the law (James 2:10).
You know, I see this theme throughout the Word, and when I mention it, no notice whatsoever, as though ears are plugged and eyes are blinded. It is very encouraging to see it posted by another. Yahweh bless you always........amen.
PS...........the year is 5774, but you knew that. Exciting isn't it?
PS...........the year is 5774, but you knew that. Exciting isn't it?
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What I realize is that Yahweh does what He will do, and what He will do is what I pray for.
The Hebrew calendar is based on the genealogies provided in the Word.
The genalogies leave out the ages of more than one person in Genesis.
Because of this, those religious men who calculated the time from creation would not include them not having the exact figures of the lifetimes. They would not guess at them either in order not to add or take away from the Word of God.
So now the time since the creation has the world at the year 5774 by the Hebrew calendar with any number of years omitted due to the law. Since the age of man has diminished since the time of Methuselah, those missing years could be any number of years that do not add to 5774 making it more than 6000. I find this exciting, and no, mankind cannot limit Yahweh to time since time only exists in this age with what we call time.
Keep in mind, Yahwhe knows the day and the time of Yeshua' return, so I would say He does use what we call time.
The Hebrew calendar is based on the genealogies provided in the Word.
The genalogies leave out the ages of more than one person in Genesis.
Because of this, those religious men who calculated the time from creation would not include them not having the exact figures of the lifetimes. They would not guess at them either in order not to add or take away from the Word of God.
So now the time since the creation has the world at the year 5774 by the Hebrew calendar with any number of years omitted due to the law. Since the age of man has diminished since the time of Methuselah, those missing years could be any number of years that do not add to 5774 making it more than 6000. I find this exciting, and no, mankind cannot limit Yahweh to time since time only exists in this age with what we call time.
Keep in mind, Yahwhe knows the day and the time of Yeshua' return, so I would say He does use what we call time.
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K
Thanks brother for your reply. Then, would you say that since we are to be followers of Messiah, ...well, you know.
I guess before He returns those who sincerely seek to follow His example will be called a lot worse than "legalist" or "Judaizers", beware of us oooohhhh..
frankly I don't care, it's yoke not doctrine I seek.
I guess before He returns those who sincerely seek to follow His example will be called a lot worse than "legalist" or "Judaizers", beware of us oooohhhh..
frankly I don't care, it's yoke not doctrine I seek.
I notice both the sides (far left and far right) of the issue saw the people before them all debating this and they decided what they believed and then joined one side or the other. Iraniaus said "it is a prophecy" that is he was speaking of the six days of creation and the rest in Genesis. His explanation was about the mark of the beast(or the number),he said "six hundred because Noah was six hundred when he entered the ark and sixty and six because the Image Nebuchadnezzar required them to bow down to was sixty cubits tall and six cubits wide",,a while later he made the comment that this surmised all the worlds apostasy from the deluge throughout all mankind's history and that in "six thousand years it would be concluded".,,,
I wondered,,"why on earth did Iranieus tie the seven days in genesis,the destruction(deluge) the ark Noah,the image in Danial the forth commandment all together with the end and the mark of the beast",(other things also as you say it is repeated throughout the bible). In (Issiah 46;10) it says that in the beginning he told us the end thereof,so "beginning/days of creation and the rest/sabbath" is also telling us the (end) thereof,so as well as the story of creation is telling us the creation(genesis) it also is telling us the end(judgement day) and the day of rest(millennial kingdom).
I am glad to see that you also notice the prophecy found in the same(maybe different details). I think that to most I must seem like a slippery fish when we all discuss the sabbath (Saturday verses Sunday) because it seems I support both,that is Saturday I think cannot be removed because it is a message with a meaning God is trying to convey to us,but the same the first day(the Lords day) is also a message with a meaning,they both go together to form a complete sentence being conveyed by God. That is as well as the six days are conveying the length of time mankind will labor,and the seventh the rest, the day of the Lord is conveying the day after these sets of prophecy.
I wondered,,"why on earth did Iranieus tie the seven days in genesis,the destruction(deluge) the ark Noah,the image in Danial the forth commandment all together with the end and the mark of the beast",(other things also as you say it is repeated throughout the bible). In (Issiah 46;10) it says that in the beginning he told us the end thereof,so "beginning/days of creation and the rest/sabbath" is also telling us the (end) thereof,so as well as the story of creation is telling us the creation(genesis) it also is telling us the end(judgement day) and the day of rest(millennial kingdom).
I am glad to see that you also notice the prophecy found in the same(maybe different details). I think that to most I must seem like a slippery fish when we all discuss the sabbath (Saturday verses Sunday) because it seems I support both,that is Saturday I think cannot be removed because it is a message with a meaning God is trying to convey to us,but the same the first day(the Lords day) is also a message with a meaning,they both go together to form a complete sentence being conveyed by God. That is as well as the six days are conveying the length of time mankind will labor,and the seventh the rest, the day of the Lord is conveying the day after these sets of prophecy.
I would respectfully disagree here. We are still under the sacrificial Laws, that didn't change. The Sacrifice changed...
Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
The first was the animal sacrifices, the second is the perfect Sacrifice of Christ.
Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
The first was the animal sacrifices, the second is the perfect Sacrifice of Christ.