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E
well of course.
but that is not the point.
The spirit tells us HOW the letter works and how to obey it.
The letter does not do it. nor was it given to do that.
It was given to hold us under faith, To shut our mouths (prove ALL have sinned) and to lead us as a schoolmaster to Christ.
So trying to obey the letter will not do what people claim it will do. All it can possibly do is give us a false premise we are doing ok at it. Because if it does not condemn you, and shut your mouth about how good and righteous you are. You do not understand it at all.
but that is not the point.
The spirit tells us HOW the letter works and how to obey it.
The letter does not do it. nor was it given to do that.
It was given to hold us under faith, To shut our mouths (prove ALL have sinned) and to lead us as a schoolmaster to Christ.
So trying to obey the letter will not do what people claim it will do. All it can possibly do is give us a false premise we are doing ok at it. Because if it does not condemn you, and shut your mouth about how good and righteous you are. You do not understand it at all.
When someone says something you really like, you can add to their "reputation" by clicking the Davidic Star looking symbol at the bottom of their post. But if you've added to their reputation a lot, the system says that you need to give reputation to other people before you can keep adding it to the same person.
That's why some of us copy and paste the system message when it says we can't add to their reputation anymore.
In this case?
I thought what you said was great.
That's why some of us copy and paste the system message when it says we can't add to their reputation anymore.
In this case?
I thought what you said was great.
E
if you look under your avatar. you have rep points, and those green squares. those are given to you when someone gives you rep point. You give them to someone when yuo see them say something you really think is a good post. If you look at the bottom of the post. right next to the "blog this post" there is a star, hit that to add to a users reputation.
If you have not added to someone elses reputaion. You can not add to the same persons twice, it will say you must add some reputation to someone else before you can add it to this users again. Then people copy and past that in a quote to let the person know they really appreciated what they said.
Actually this is a classic example where you are ignoring what John says and keeping what Paul says to suit your doctrine.
Both Paul and John are right, If your view does not harmonize both truths then you have error.
Yes Righteousness is imputed by faith in Christ, That same righteousness converts the person so that they do righteousness. Its the gift of God.
Ill say again,
Do you try not so sin? then you by default are trying to keep the law. You just don't want to say the words.
For example again, If a thief accepts Jesus by Faith and by faith is given the Holy Spirit which by faith in Jesus changes the heart and the thief stops stealing then he is keeping the law, thou shalt not steal.
Have you not in your walk with Jesus stopped sinning in some way the sins you used to do?
I hopes so, Why then do you doubt that God can give you victory in everything?
Tell me this, If I lusted in my heart before I came to Christ and then By Faith I accept Jesus death in my place and by Faith my sins are forgiven and by Faith I accept the new life through the working of the Holy Spirit and by Faith God gives me a new heat and I do not lust in the heart anymore. Then by default I am keeping the commandment thou shalt not covet.
Is that legalism?
If there not fruit?
is there not change in the life?
Is there not power in the blood?
As I have said before If a cripple who could not walk tells me Jesus has healed him by faith and yet he can not walk. he is either a liar or deceived.
Simple cause and effect when Jesus heals, cripples walk.
When one sins less because of Faith in Jesus, one is automatically keeping the law more because of faith in Jesus.
You are taking my post out of context, it is the inevitable result of Faith in Jesus not the means of salvation. two very different things.
SO when a thief comes to me and says that Jesus has given him a new life and yet they continue to steal even though they know its wrong. well either a liar or deceived.
What people need is more faith in Jesus and His promises.
Both Paul and John are right, If your view does not harmonize both truths then you have error.
Yes Righteousness is imputed by faith in Christ, That same righteousness converts the person so that they do righteousness. Its the gift of God.
Ill say again,
Do you try not so sin? then you by default are trying to keep the law. You just don't want to say the words.
For example again, If a thief accepts Jesus by Faith and by faith is given the Holy Spirit which by faith in Jesus changes the heart and the thief stops stealing then he is keeping the law, thou shalt not steal.
Have you not in your walk with Jesus stopped sinning in some way the sins you used to do?
I hopes so, Why then do you doubt that God can give you victory in everything?
Tell me this, If I lusted in my heart before I came to Christ and then By Faith I accept Jesus death in my place and by Faith my sins are forgiven and by Faith I accept the new life through the working of the Holy Spirit and by Faith God gives me a new heat and I do not lust in the heart anymore. Then by default I am keeping the commandment thou shalt not covet.
Is that legalism?
If there not fruit?
is there not change in the life?
Is there not power in the blood?
As I have said before If a cripple who could not walk tells me Jesus has healed him by faith and yet he can not walk. he is either a liar or deceived.
Simple cause and effect when Jesus heals, cripples walk.
When one sins less because of Faith in Jesus, one is automatically keeping the law more because of faith in Jesus.
You are taking my post out of context, it is the inevitable result of Faith in Jesus not the means of salvation. two very different things.
SO when a thief comes to me and says that Jesus has given him a new life and yet they continue to steal even though they know its wrong. well either a liar or deceived.
What people need is more faith in Jesus and His promises.
The problem is though, when you actually read the Law and the account of how God gave it to His people and what He said about it, you won't find any of your thoughts in it. When you read through the Law itself, there is mercy, grace, life, love and God's Spirit all throughout.
Your thoughts come from the Paul's corrections towards those who misused the Law. Everything you're saying is completely true, when addressed to the people who were misusing it. But Paul's words aren't correcting the Law itself. Everything that he is refuting in Romans, Galatians and Hebrews isn't related to God's original giving of the Law, just the misapplication of it.
I think many people get their understanding of the Law primarily through Paul's correction of its misapplication, instead of reading the Law itself to see what it says. The account of the giving of the Law, and the Law itself is just as loving and anointed as anything in the New Testament.
Your thoughts come from the Paul's corrections towards those who misused the Law. Everything you're saying is completely true, when addressed to the people who were misusing it. But Paul's words aren't correcting the Law itself. Everything that he is refuting in Romans, Galatians and Hebrews isn't related to God's original giving of the Law, just the misapplication of it.
I think many people get their understanding of the Law primarily through Paul's correction of its misapplication, instead of reading the Law itself to see what it says. The account of the giving of the Law, and the Law itself is just as loving and anointed as anything in the New Testament.
Think of the law as the written standard, but Jesus is the way the only way.
The law only shows what sin is by showing what righteousness is.
The Law can not be attained by humans in their own strength.
But If Jesus is in us then that is a different matter we become like Him. that is the goal to be like Jesus not like the law.
But If you are like Jesus then you will keep the law. Jesus loves more than any and Jesus breaks none of the law. There is no law against love not even the 10 commandment.
SO then if you love you are not under the law yet you are keeping it.
The law only shows what sin is by showing what righteousness is.
The Law can not be attained by humans in their own strength.
But If Jesus is in us then that is a different matter we become like Him. that is the goal to be like Jesus not like the law.
But If you are like Jesus then you will keep the law. Jesus loves more than any and Jesus breaks none of the law. There is no law against love not even the 10 commandment.
SO then if you love you are not under the law yet you are keeping it.
B
You fail to reckon with (2Cor 3:6-11) and you refuse to even talk about what it testifies concerning the law engraved in stone. That is not being a good student of the word. Here is what it says...
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
Don't you see that the glory of the law engraved in stones was to be done away? It was done away by the glory of the ministration of the Spirit that excelleth. The glory of the spirit is the ministration of righteousness that exceeds in glory. It is like taking a light bulb that has 40 watts of glory which represents what was written and engraved in stone and setting it next to a 1,000 watt bulb of glory that represents the ministration of the Spirit. The light of the 1,000 watt bulb exceeds and excels the light and glory of the 40 watt bulb. The glory of the Spirit is what remains doing away with the glory of what was written and engraved in stone by virtue of being more glorious.
This can not be ignored for it is very clear what this passage is saying and it must be reckoned with, even though many of you do not like what it says. Every word of God is pure, enlightening the eyes of our understanding.
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
Don't you see that the glory of the law engraved in stones was to be done away? It was done away by the glory of the ministration of the Spirit that excelleth. The glory of the spirit is the ministration of righteousness that exceeds in glory. It is like taking a light bulb that has 40 watts of glory which represents what was written and engraved in stone and setting it next to a 1,000 watt bulb of glory that represents the ministration of the Spirit. The light of the 1,000 watt bulb exceeds and excels the light and glory of the 40 watt bulb. The glory of the Spirit is what remains doing away with the glory of what was written and engraved in stone by virtue of being more glorious.
This can not be ignored for it is very clear what this passage is saying and it must be reckoned with, even though many of you do not like what it says. Every word of God is pure, enlightening the eyes of our understanding.
B
You need to be under a pastor-teacher that God has raised up so that you can be taught and learn by submission and not by your own understanding. You may have the Spirit because you believed but we all need to be taught so that we don't lack. You guys who are on this law kick terribly misunderstand what we have been given in Christ. Using the gospels to counter what we are taught in the epistles is not being a good student. We study under a teacher that God has raised up for the church so that we can show ourselves approved and not be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth. Many of you who have put yourself under the law as you have are not part of a local church and maybe have never been. That is not good nor beneficial in growing up in Christ through the Spirit and doctrine. What you understand about the law and your relationship to it is not sound doctrine and it stunt your growth in Christ.
E
Funny you should say this.
This is what God said,
Cursed is everyone who does not confirm ALL the words of this law and obey them. Of course he said this after he gave the law to moses, and demanded everyone agree to this. And paul reiterated this in romans and galations
Thou shalt not covet is a command, It convicts you as guilty if you break it. And proves you are a sinner and in need of Christ.
what it does not do is tell you what it means not to covet, What all forms of coveting are (what constitutes every act which would be considered coveting) and how not to covet.
Of course the law of love does. If you love God and your neighbor. and you are acting out that love in faith. You would never break the law which says," do not covet"
Yep. And paul made it clear who is taking it out of application. Everyone who, after the schoolmaster has done its job, continues to try to be bound to it.
which would include many people in this room, especially all the ones who liked this comment you just made.
I grew up under the law. I know it quite well. I spent over 20 years doing all I could to apply the law to my life. and of course kept failing. I could not understand why, Until I finally found the true purpose of the law. Then my life changed, and If you looked at my life since I figured out what God really wanted, and compared it to when I was trying my best to obey the law. You would so I am more of a law keeper today than I was at any time in my 20 years.
in fact. Growing up in many different churches and spending 14 years in the military traveling to many of the same types of churches in many different states. And all the people I met and had fellowship with. I would put any of them against the people I know who worry more about doing the work of God and living out love then following the law and KNOW that the ones who I fellowship with now are better law keepers than the ones who spent 24/7 doing all they could to obey the law.
Not because the ones I grew up with did not try or did not want to do it. It is just they did not know how. Because they misapplied the law. And could never figure out who to really fulfill the law of Christ.
This is what God said,
Cursed is everyone who does not confirm ALL the words of this law and obey them. Of course he said this after he gave the law to moses, and demanded everyone agree to this. And paul reiterated this in romans and galations
Thou shalt not covet is a command, It convicts you as guilty if you break it. And proves you are a sinner and in need of Christ.
what it does not do is tell you what it means not to covet, What all forms of coveting are (what constitutes every act which would be considered coveting) and how not to covet.
Of course the law of love does. If you love God and your neighbor. and you are acting out that love in faith. You would never break the law which says," do not covet"
Yep. And paul made it clear who is taking it out of application. Everyone who, after the schoolmaster has done its job, continues to try to be bound to it.
which would include many people in this room, especially all the ones who liked this comment you just made.
I grew up under the law. I know it quite well. I spent over 20 years doing all I could to apply the law to my life. and of course kept failing. I could not understand why, Until I finally found the true purpose of the law. Then my life changed, and If you looked at my life since I figured out what God really wanted, and compared it to when I was trying my best to obey the law. You would so I am more of a law keeper today than I was at any time in my 20 years.
in fact. Growing up in many different churches and spending 14 years in the military traveling to many of the same types of churches in many different states. And all the people I met and had fellowship with. I would put any of them against the people I know who worry more about doing the work of God and living out love then following the law and KNOW that the ones who I fellowship with now are better law keepers than the ones who spent 24/7 doing all they could to obey the law.
Not because the ones I grew up with did not try or did not want to do it. It is just they did not know how. Because they misapplied the law. And could never figure out who to really fulfill the law of Christ.