Cuddling and kissing?

[tourist]

Re: Don't Lose Your Noodle by the Old Canoodle

As to Kissing, Cuddling, Canoodling by the unmarried & unengaged:

1) Thou shalt not covet = thou shalt not lust.

2) Gal 5: The flesh lusts vs the Spirit.

3) Flee youthful lusts. " If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honor, sanctified, meet for the master’s use, prepared unto every good work. But flee youthful lusts, and follow after righteousness, faith, love, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart."

4) lusts war vs the soul. "Beloved, I beseech you as sojourners and pilgrims, to abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul; having your behavior seemly among the Gentiles;"

5) In the last time there shall be mockers, walking after their own ungodly lusts. These are they who make separations, sensual, having not the Spirit.

6) In the last time there shall be mockers, walking after their own ungodly lusts. These are they who make separations, sensual, having not the Spirit.

7) For, uttering great swelling words of vanity, they entice in the lusts of the flesh, by lasciviousness, those who are just escaping from them that live in error; promising them liberty, while they themselves are bondservants of corruption; for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he also brought into bondage.

8) the Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment unto the day of judgment; but chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of defilement,

9) having escaped from the corruption that is in the world by lust.

10) that ye no longer should live the rest of your time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. For the time past may suffice to have wrought the desire of the Gentiles, and to have walked in lasciviousness, lusts, winebibbings, revellings, carousings, and abominable idolatries: wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them into the same excess of riot,

11) as children of obedience, not fashioning yourselves according to your former lusts in the time of your ignorance: but like as he who called you is holy, be ye yourselves also holy in all manner of living; because it is written, Ye shall be holy; for I am holy.

12) Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempteth no man: but each man is tempted, when he is drawn away by his own lust, and enticed. Then the lust, when it hath conceived, beareth sin: and the sin, when it is fullgrown, bringeth forth death.

13) For we also once were foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving diverse lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, hating one another. But when the kindness of God our Saviour, and his love toward man, appeared, not by works done in righteousness, which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy he saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

14 For the grace of God hath appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us, to the intent that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly and righteously and godly in this present world; looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a people for his own possession, zealous of good works.

15) puffed up, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God; holding a form of godliness, but having denied the power thereof: from these also turn away. For of these are they that creep into houses, and take captive silly women laden with sins, led away by diverse lusts,

16)
1 Thes 4 provides advice on how to get a spouse:

For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye abstain from fornication; that each one of you know how to acquire his own vessel [i.e., wife] in sanctification and honor, not in the passion of lust, [No Shotgun marriages!] even as the Gentiles who know not God; that no man transgress, and wrong his brother in the matter: because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as also we forewarned you and testified. For God called us not for uncleanness, but in sanctification.

There is lust and then there is desire. Those are two different attributes. Without desire it is not possible for the relationship to grow to the romantic stage. Romantic relationships can fail due to the perception of lack of interest. For some, it takes half a lifetime before all the lights are green, and all the 'i's are dotted and all of the 't's are crossed. By then, it may be too late. You either know what you want or you don't. You must have confidence in yourself in the arena of love for that can seem like a war zone at times, especially in the discovery phase, but in the end it is worth the fight, regardless of the outcome. It is a risk that is not for the faint of heart to take, for only the brave will reap the reward.

I am not a novice of matters of the heart but it does seem to me that there is a tremendous amount of biblical and sexual naïve attitudes on this sight concerning falling in love and the proper way to conduct yourself in a relationship. I am neither promoting nor condoning pre-marital sex but come on, what in the world is wrong with kissing and cuddling during the dating process? Let's get real.

From the vantage point of a man I would never do or promote anything harmful in the eyes of God or offending the sensitivities of a woman of my interest. A couple in a relationship that is based on the love of God will not be willing to do anything that is not within the boundary that He has set for the relationship. Of course, precautions should be taken to avoid sex before marriage but even then God knows and understands these things and what precipitated them.

My advice is to pray constantly about every facet of a relationship, trust in God and then go forward if there is a love in your heart given to you by God to share with the one of your true hearts desire.

I would not write this guy off based on a period of 4 days. If everyone did this then no one would ever get married and know what a marriage made in heaven feels like. There are ups and downs in every relationship. This is reality.

I trust that Packersgirl is mature enough at her age to handle the romantic equation of a relationship and still stay true to herself in her relationship to God. I hope that this works out for her and I am rooting for this relationship to succeed. If not, he is not the only starfish in the sea but at this time he may still be the best catch of her life.

 

[secularhermit]

Since you mentioned a couple of things... Look at Samson and his ways to approach the love he thought he needed and, so soon after, his 1st wife was given to another man.

Then, later on, when went to a woman he probably gave $ome money and, in a 3rd move, he met Dalilah (the one he loved more) and the story is just there to be read to learn of these.

 

[secularhermit]

Each time I have shown these two kissing (2012) I knew their reactions...

 

[Packersgirl]

I respectfully disagree. Having made a habit of meeting online friends since 1998, I find that a person's introversion/extroversion factor is almost ALWAYS different in person than it is online. It's not necessarily a flip-flop, sometimes it's an increase or decrease. CatHerder is a more talkative face-to-face than online (but he's plenty chatty online, too). DuchessAimee is a little less talkative in person (but she can still get going). Catlynn is more chatty face-to-face; so is Grace-Like-Rain (if you can believe it). Grace actually confessed the other night that I'd really surprised her, because she hadn't taken my ISTP/J claims seriously until after our second meeting, because based on the chatroom, I had to be an extrovert, but in person she saw that I wasn't.

The anonymity and relative safety that online interaction provides often fosters "the me I've always wanted to be" or "the me that I think everyone will like/respect/adore more" in people. That's why I think long term relationships that are only online-based for long periods of time often have some big accommodations to endure when they become short-distance relationships...there's a whole new set of learning about the person that takes place, and it's often surprising.



A kiss or two on the first date isn't unheard of, but the steamy messages so quickly? Yeah, I'm with ChandlerFan (and most everyone) on this. That's a HUGE red flag, because if he put it out there so quickly, it was clearly on his mind right from the start. That's not to say that a man, even a man of the faith, doesn't wonder about sexual chemistry quickly...but a respectful man who's interested in a Godly relationship wouldn't have brought it up at this point in the relationship, nor do I think he should have brought it up in this manner. HUGE red flag.

But there's another red flag I want to discuss, and we'll get to it in a moment.



THERE IT IS. I was waiting for that shoe to drop. This whole time, I'm thinking, man, this new kid is pretty smart, pretty level headed. He can't seriously only be 24...where's the sign that he's still missing part of his brain? Just found it. *grins*

Okay, now that I'm done teasing ChandlerFan, on to you, Packersgirl (who, you have no excuse for liking the Packers, because you're over 25 and your brain is fully developed).



I posit that he's thinking one of two things (disclaimer: I could be wrong it's happened once before, and it's bound to happen again):

1) Man, I didn't get laid on the first date! What a waste of time this has been! How much more work is this woman going to take?

2) Oh wow, we got things going really quick there. Maybe we pushed this too hard; maybe I'm not ready to move this quick.

Either way, you're probably better off without.

So, remember that OTHER red flag I mentioned earlier? Here it is.

You didn't mention ANYTHING about this man's spiritual status. While we have the benefit of being able to look at your profile on CC and seeing that you identify as a Christian, you made no mention of this man's spiritual state. Is HE a Christian? Did the two of you discuss your faith, what it meant to you (each other), what it would mean for your relationship, and what it meant for your future? For a follower of Christ, a romantic relationship is not just between two people, it's between three. If Christ wasn't a part of the equation, then the solution becomes much more difficult. (My word, I just made a math joke; I'm off my game today.)

If you didn't mention it, because you forgot, no red flag.
If you didn't mention it, because he's NOT a Christian, HUGE red flag.
If you didn't mention it, because he's NOT a Christian, and you felt you should hide that because you knew we'd say something....HUGEST RED FLAG EVAAAAAAAAAR!

Not saying it to be judging, nor am I bringing it up, looking for a chance to bring condemnation. I am simply pointing out the one missing piece of information that would make it a little easier to answer your question about what he was thinking.

He has actually gone through a course and is an ordained minister. Maybey this is why I am si confussed. While I had him on facebook I checked him out quite a bit. He is involved with his family. Just got out of the airforce. Hasnt been in a relationship for several years. I didnt even find out about the ordained bit from him. Only after he added me to facebook. Like I said. I realize it is prolly infatuation, but I just wish I could fix the mistakes I made. He seemed like a great opportunity fir something great.

 

[Ugly]

He has actually gone through a course and is an ordained minister. Maybey this is why I am si confussed. While I had him on facebook I checked him out quite a bit. He is involved with his family. Just got out of the airforce. Hasnt been in a relationship for several years. I didnt even find out about the ordained bit from him. Only after he added me to facebook. Like I said. I realize it is prolly infatuation, but I just wish I could fix the mistakes I made. He seemed like a great opportunity fir something great.

An 'ordained minister' who was quick to get physical, then suddenly disappears on you with no warning is your idea of missing a 'great opportunity'? I stand by what i said before. Nothing you said has changed my mind, in fact it's only reinforced what i thought on the subject. And you're still wishing to change to keep someone you really don't know. Four dates isn't really knowing anyone. You're so caught up in the infatuation you're missing the red flags of his behavior.

 

[StoneThrower]

I met this guy on an online dating site. We chatted fir two weeks. I sent the first message to him but he pursued and initiated there after. He often got a little steamy in his messages and I reciprocated playfully. One night he asked for my number and to add him to facebook. I did. Couple days later we met at the park and watched a movie at my house. We cuddles and kissed. I sent him a txt the next say saying I had fun and would love to do it again some time. He was always very aggressive and strait forward online. When we met he wasn't very talkative at all and seemed shy. The next day he removed me from his facebook and I haven't herd from him since. This was Monday night and it is now Friday. What did I do wrong? He kind of alluded to the fact he was waiting for a paycheck to "take me out" is there still hope he will continue to purse? If he does decide to pursue again how do I not mess up again? Men and women please respond...but men what is he thinking?

Why would you want to? He sounds like a dog looking to score, and you kind of lead him on being flirtatious. First date he didn't earn the right to kiss you or touch you, much less be in your home.

 

[StoneThrower]

He has actually gone through a course and is an ordained minister. Maybe this is why I am si confused. While I had him on facebook I checked him out quite a bit. He is involved with his family. Just got out of the airforce. Hasn't been in a relationship for several years. I didn't even find out about the ordained bit from him. Only after he added me to facebook. Like I said. I realize it is prolly infatuation, but I just wish I could fix the mistakes I made. He seemed like a great opportunity fir something great.

Thats not the way to get ordained, a church is suppose to lay hands on you after the leadership thinks your elder pastor material, and you usually have to prove yourself I went to school for ministry and still had to serve a year as an elder before being ordained. Sounds like an INTERNET ordination that you buy thats worthless. If it wasnt just a lie. If he was ligit he wouldnt have acted that way and would have treated you like a sister.

 

[Grace-Like-Rain]

If he is a Christian (ordained minister), it's possible that he felt remorse for getting physical when you met in person. Sometimes people feel protected from sin if they are doing it on-line without an "identity". Meeting in person and doing it is different. It's more real. He may have felt convicted and removed himself from the situation. If this IS the case, he was wrong to not explain it to you. I can't see any excuse for him disappearing without a word to you about why. It's more likely that he decided to pursue another love interest instead.

 

[gypsygirl]

He has actually gone through a course and is an ordained minister. Maybey this is why I am si confussed. While I had him on facebook I checked him out quite a bit. He is involved with his family. Just got out of the airforce. Hasnt been in a relationship for several years. I didnt even find out about the ordained bit from him. Only after he added me to facebook. Like I said. I realize it is prolly infatuation, but I just wish I could fix the mistakes I made. He seemed like a great opportunity fir something great.

for what it's worth, i personally wouldn't give much credence to his ordained minister status. the pastor of my aunt's largely gay/lesbian church is an ordained minister and i've found much of their teaching to be more suspect than grounded in biblical truth.

i'm so sorry you're so disappointed over this. i really hope that over time, you can see that he is really not as much of a loss as you currently see him as, in my opinion. it's easier for us, objectively, and our brains aren't swimming in all those chemicals your body manufactures during that infatuation phase. : )

and i do understand wanting something real and meaningful in your life -- but maybe it's time to look at what this "blip" as to what this relationship road can teach you.

sometimes those brief dating relationships have served more to help me calibrate my "picker" and figure out more who i am looking for (and who i'm NOT). i've actually learned a lot from some guys that i've gone out on just a date or few with.

and i don't think you "messed it up" as much as you dodged a bullet.

 

[secularhermit]

@ Packersgirl (solely)

Last night I watched scareface... Those times Al Pacino looked at her "sister" Gina I bet my daughter could guess what was "his" problem going on. Human nature is like that and believe me I have seen more than you: Priest, pastors, even angels have failed to die.

I´m glad you are alive, and people here is telling you their truths.

 

[BananaPie]

I steam broccoli, but that's about as "steamy" as I get these days...

oooo! I steam rice & steam salmon with tomatoes in garlic. See?
Totally steamy, I mean, dreamy!

 

[MissCris]

..........

 

[INTJer]

It doesn't sound good at all. He threw himself at you - I don't think holding hands or kissing is some sort of sin and I think it is approptiate when a relationship has gotten to a certain point. But he was all over you without there being a relationship - I don't consider a few dates to be a relationship. He seems to have the attitude that he is entitled to whatever physical contact he can get out of you. Guys who have such a sense of entitlement are bad news. And he is waiting to get paid before he can afford to take you out? It sound like he is living from paycheck to paycheck. I predict that if you let him take you to dinner or whatever that he will think that you owe him something more than a kiss because he went all out to play for dinner and he feels so entitled.

 

[Packersgirl]

An 'ordained minister' who was quick to get physical, then suddenly disappears on you with no warning is your idea of missing a 'great opportunity'? I stand by what i said before. Nothing you said has changed my mind, in fact it's only reinforced what i thought on the subject. And you're still wishing to change to keep someone you really don't know. Four dates isn't really knowing anyone. You're so caught up in the infatuation you're missing the red flags of his behavior.

No no....four different dates with 4 different guys. 2 of which wanted relationships with me. You are right. A couple dates isnt enough to know but a date is enough to be curious. My point to you is I am not desperate. You are entitled to your oppinion and thank you for sharing it.

 

[cinder]

Hum, I am not sure if your attacking what you percieve to be my lack of self worth id wise on your part with out knowing more about the situation. These next statements may sound arrogent but I want you to understand its because I havr taken a liking to him not because I am desparate.
1) this guy was date 4 that I had been on in 2 weeks
2) I am well educated and a great conversationalist
3) I am not ugly. I am actually quite attractive
4) just because I am asking advice does not mean I am imfatuated beyound reason

when I come on here to ask advice I did so very humbly. I appreciate all the imput. I reallt do. But considerr this. This man never tore appart my character. He never oversteped his bound. He may be lousy for not being more up front but at least he was civil.

No no....four different dates with 4 different guys. 2 of which wanted relationships with me. You are right. A couple dates isnt enough to know but a date is enough to be curious. My point to you is I am not desperate. You are entitled to your oppinion and thank you for sharing it.

4 dates with 4 different guys in a period of two weeks, and you say you are not desperate? Did you let all of them come to your home, cuddle with and kiss you on the first date or just this one guy?

As for the whole polite and civil thing, I know a guy and he's one of the nicest and most well mannered guys you would ever want to meet. Quick to accept and help anyone and everyone. We became pretty good friends. This guy is also an alcoholic (at least he likes to go out drinking whenever he can and gets drunk enough to get hungover), picks up prostitutes and sleeps around (and saw pretty much nothing wrong with it and didn't seem to think twice about telling me that he had done so), and has minimal to nonexistent money management skills. For the record he was always decent and respectful to me (outside of being seemingly clueless as to what was and was not an appropriate topic of conversation), but even so I'm smart enough to know that he's not a good dating prospect for me or anyone I care about. It doesn't matter how nice or courteous a guy is to you or how good he makes you feel. Real relationships require real work and commitment, don't settle for a guy who rushes to the physical, he's probably decided that you have a nice body and he just wants to get a turn with it.

 

[Tintin]

Kissing that early on in a relationship isn't wise. I'm not saying you have to wait for your engagement or even marriage to kiss, but you should be serious about your relationship. I have no experience in this arena, yet, but I'm definitely going to keep kissing for later down the track.

 

[jeremyPJ]

After reading this and contemplating a bit, it almost sounds to me as if he didn't have much dating experience, and had a more "gutsy" guy talk to you online. And when he was with you in real life, he didn't know how to handle things.

But I haven't read every post here, just the first page, give or take. Just my first impression...
Online dating can leave us open to this.

 

[TinaT]

If you want to kiss and cuddle get a dog. Just sayin. These lips are reserved.

 

[Packersgirl]

4 dates with 4 different guys in a period of two weeks, and you say you are not desperate? Did you let all of them come to your home, cuddle with and kiss you on the first date or just this one guy?

As for the whole polite and civil thing, I know a guy and he's one of the nicest and most well mannered guys you would ever want to meet. Quick to accept and help anyone and everyone. We became pretty good friends. This guy is also an alcoholic (at least he likes to go out drinking whenever he can and gets drunk enough to get hungover), picks up prostitutes and sleeps around (and saw pretty much nothing wrong with it and didn't seem to think twice about telling me that he had done so), and has minimal to nonexistent money management skills. For the record he was always decent and respectful to me (outside of being seemingly clueless as to what was and was not an appropriate topic of conversation), but even so I'm smart enough to know that he's not a good dating prospect for me or anyone I care about. It doesn't matter how nice or courteous a guy is to you or how good he makes you feel. Real relationships require real work and commitment, don't settle for a guy who rushes to the physical, he's probably decided that you have a nice body and he just wants to get a turn with it.

Lets review the facts here.
1) these men pursued me not vice versa
2) desperation is taking anything you can get...which obviously I didnt give into
3) non-of the other men came to my home.
4) this man is from a very small towm near my hometown
5)non of the others where allowed to kiss me.. 1 tried and I pushed him away
6) rural america does things a bit different then big cities do. Towns of 400-800 people are common and social norms are differnt.
7) at the time of the date there were three other people in the building 2 of which are men that are over 6 feet and 200 pounds

 

[TJ]

I met this guy on an online dating site. We chatted fir two weeks. I sent the first message to him but he pursued and initiated there after. He often got a little steamy in his messages and I reciprocated playfully. One night he asked for my number and to add him to facebook. I did. Couple days later we met at the park and watched a movie at my house. We cuddles and kissed. I sent him a txt the next say saying I had fun and would love to do it again some time. He was always very aggressive and strait forward online. When we met he wasnt very talkative at all and seemed shy. The next day he removed me frim his facebook and I havent herd from him since. This was Monday night and it is now Friday. What did I do wrong? He kind of illuded to the fact he was waiting for a paycheck to "take me out" is there still hope he will contine to purse? If he does decide to pursue again how do I not mess up again? Men and women please respond...but men what is he thinking?

I would say the first thing you did wrong was invite him over to cuddle and kiss on your couch. What was going through your head during all this. He might have seen you as easy ir too much temptation, especially because you weren't really putting any discernment into your actions. You don't know this guy from Adam essentially, and I'm guessing you never discussed scripture with this guy. A solid foundation is buit on Christ and takes time, you built yours hastily and on your couch. Lesson learned.