BEWARE the Lawkeepers

[eternally-gratefull]

I said you have to keep using algebra to help you in calculus.
And no, I don't think the law itself makes you morally righteous. God uses the law to show us the proper way to live.

Originally Posted by KohenMatt

Please quote the verses from the original law that state this. Please show me why God said He gave the Law. Show us some verses from the first 5 books of the Bible that show why God gave the law.

No, you haven't posted it. All you have been doing is quoting Paul, and you gave just 1 verse from the Law talking about the curses.

You have refused to quote any verses about when God gave the law and why He did. You have refused to provide any scriptures about whether God offered blessings to Israel for keeping the law.

If we're going to talk about a Christian's relationship to the law, then we should look at what the law actually says and go from there.

No. The law does not show you how to live,

It shows us how BAD WE FAILED TO LIVE GODS STANDARD

if it did., we would not have need the NT writers to show us how to live, because the law would have been perfectly good enough to do that. The NT writers would have just kept refering to the law when they wanted to show us how to love

 

[gotime]

No. The law does not show you how to live,

It shows us how BAD WE FAILED TO LIVE GODS STANDARD

if it did., we would not have need the NT writers to show us how to live, because the law would have been perfectly good enough to do that. The NT writers would have just kept refering to the law when they wanted to show us how to love

I agree with this and disagree. the bit I disagree with is the very last sentence. The new testament writers often speak of the law when they spoke of love. Love is the fulfilling of the law. Love one another etc.

 

[haz]

From Haz: To this you answered that you do not obey the law perfectly, nor can you. Hence we conclude from your understanding of scripture that you believe that you will be called "least" in Heaven.

To Haz: What I replied is true for all who are not perfect. Because of Yeshua, my sin is not imputed to me, thus by grace I obey all law. You should know this. Now you do.

Here you admit that you will be called "least" in Heaven because you do not obey the law perfectly.

I confronted you on this point because of your accusations here that we under grace will be called "least" in Heaven because we do not preach righteousness by works of the law.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree with this and disagree. the bit I disagree with is the very last sentence. The new testament writers often speak of the law when they spoke of love. Love is the fulfilling of the law. Love one another etc.

I disagree with this in part

only part of the law speaks of love, a very small part. the rest are do not do commands, and do commands.

love is the fulfillment of the whole law. when you love others (not self) your not going to break the law.

 

[Zinzerio]

19My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, 20let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins
Proverbs 10:12
Hatred stirs up conflict, but love covers over all wrongs.

Proverbs 11:30
The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life, and the one who is wise saves lives.

Proverbs 17:9
Whoever would foster love covers over an offense, but whoever repeats the matter separates close friends.

1 Corinthians 1:21
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

James 1:21
Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you.

James 5:15
And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven.

1 Peter 4:8
Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.

This is the law of liberty and if im a law keeper because of this then so be it and i except the title

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well lets see there was a debate about homosexuality a couple of days ago, and I said that if a person truly repented of this sin they could not live in homosexuality and still be saved.

You and another debated me on this, and said they could.

A true repentance is not still living in that willful sin. To continue to live that way, and not turn from that sin is not a true showing of one who is in Christ. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind.

You can say you love the Lord all you want, but if you don't show it, then it is just lip service.

yeah, you people like bringing the big sins into the argument.

news flash. You are still in sin, Unless you are in perfect obedience. You still have your "sin of choice" whether it be pride, Self reflection, failure to turn over a part of your life to God whatever it is.

So according to your own argument, You are still unsaved.

repent does not cause people to stop sin. Learning about God does. And they MUST BE SAVED BEFORE THEY CAN BE HEALED.

This may take some time. but if they have people like you judging them 24/7, they will never be healed.

 

[pilgram]

It's not enough to understand what is law . To be truly free from condemnation we must place our faith in the power of his blood. We must turn from our own righteousness to the righteous of Jesus

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It's not enough to understand what is law . To be truly free from condemnation we must place our faith in the power of his blood. We must turn from our own righteousness to the righteous of Jesus

I agree.

The law shows our righteousness, and how futile our attempts are, and how desperately in need we are of a savior.

Christ shows the true way, Self sacrificing love, which never looked to self for anything. but ALWAYS looked to God.

 

[Zinzerio]

new law 10 cents for a kind hearted post.
1 dollar for a mean hearted post.
if ya dont pay up then your out.

 

[JaumeJ]

This will be the last time I freshen you up. The least in heaven will be those who teach against the law, not those, like I, who observe the law as best they are able while they are being perfected by Yeshua in grace. Now I must say good-bye.

Here you admit that you will be called "least" in Heaven because you do not obey the law perfectly.

I confronted you on this point because of your accusations here that we under grace will be called "least" in Heaven because we do not preach righteousness by works of the law.

 

[just-me]

Yes we should be aware of law keepers. All the God approved Old Testament patriarchs were law keepers. Yes, they broke the law at times, and suffered the consequence like King David for example.

Exodus 21:1 If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep.

2 Samuel 12:1-10
1 And the LORD sent Nathan unto David. And he came unto him, and said unto him, There were two men in one city; the one rich, and the other poor .
2 The rich man had exceeding many flocks and herds:
3 But the poor man had nothing, save one little ewe lamb, which he had bought and nourished up : and it grew up together with him, and with his children; it did eat of his own meat, and drank of his own cup, and lay in his bosom, and was unto him as a daughter.
4 And there came a traveller unto the rich man, and he spared to take of his own flock and of his own herd, to dress for the wayfaring man that was come unto him; but took the poor man's lamb, and dressed it for the man that was come to him.
5 And David's anger was greatly kindled against the man; and he said to Nathan, As the LORD liveth, the man that hath done this thing shall surely die:
6 And he shall restore the lamb fourfold, because he did this thing, and because he had no pity .
7 And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;
8 And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.
9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.
10 Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife.

Concerning the scribes and Pharisees, they were law breakers because they were of a carnal mind. That's why Jesus had a problem with them, but they were the ones that had a problem with Jesus first, always trying to trap our Lord with leading questions. Sound familiar?

Try to incorporate these scriptures into your heart and soul, and see if Paul's teachings agree with what I just said.

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be .

Acts 24:14 14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

 

[haz]

This will be the last time I freshen you up. The least in heaven will be those who teach against the law, not those, like I, who observe the law as best they are able while they are being perfected by Yeshua in grace. Now I must say good-bye.

You're still not listening.

As your not obeying the law perfectly then by your own doctrine you will be called "least" in Heaven. Observing the law "the best you can" is missing the mark.

Also, Observing the law the best you can is an ambiguous doctrine, unsupported in scripture and fails the law's requirement of perfect obedience.

And your claim to gradually being "perfected" by some process is also flawed.

Consider Heb 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


It's Christ's sacrifice that perfected Christians. Why belittle his sacrifice by saying a further process needs to be gone through to complete what his sacrifice failed to do?

 

[BradC]

This will be the last time I freshen you up. The least in heaven will be those who teach against the law, not those, like I, who observe the law as best they are able while they are being perfected by Yeshua in grace. Now I must say good-bye.

JaumeJ, you have a dilemma with another portion of scripture that concerns John the Baptist. You would agree that he was a righteous man that kept the law, that had a baptism of repentance and preached the kingdom of God. He was great in the sight of the Lord and was also filled with the spirit was he not (Luke 1:15)? Listen closely to what Jesus had to say concerning John the baptist in (Luke 7:28)...

28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

Would you care to explain this in light of what you have said of those who are least in the kingdom?

 

[Zinzerio]

The law is good the law is nice.

give thanks to our lord Jesus christ.

the law is holy righteous and true.

give to the poor and love the jew.

the law is sacred holy and just.

stop the hate and stop the lust.

when the law convicts and shames the heart.

its time to pray and make a fresh start.

when the law gets to much to bare

get down on ya knees an say a prayer.

When the law starts to divide.

Take time out consider your pride.

and if all else fails shake your head

fall asleep an go to bed..

 

[JaumeJ]

You are going to have to find a dilemma elsewhere because you are going by what a third party has said I have posted. Either read my posts and reply to them, or do not reply.

JaumeJ, you have a dilemma with another portion of scripture that concerns John the Baptist. You would agree that he was a righteous man that kept the law, that had a baptism of repentance and preached the kingdom of God. He was great in the sight of the Lord and was also filled with the spirit was he not (Luke 1:15)? Listen closely to what Jesus had to say concerning John the baptist in (Luke 7:28)...

28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

Would you care to explain this in light of what you have said of those who are least in the kingdom?

 

[2Thewaters]

You're still not listening.

As your not obeying the law perfectly then by your own doctrine you will be called "least" in Heaven. Observing the law "the best you can" is missing the mark.

Also, Observing the law the best you can is an ambiguous doctrine, unsupported in scripture and fails the law's requirement of perfect obedience.

And your claim to gradually being "perfected" by some process is also flawed.

Consider Heb 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


It's Christ's sacrifice that perfected Christians. Why belittle his sacrifice by saying a further process needs to be gone through to complete what his sacrifice failed to do?

you need to listen yourself

you can only keep the law perfectly when the blood of Jesus is applied

you need to have the blood of JEsus aplply and struggle to remove every sin
pray for each
victory over sin

overcoming your sins

overcoming your adultery

overcoming your lying
prayer by prayer

prayer by raer

by the blood of Jesus

or yor religion is man made

self righteousness

by saying we CANNOT stop sinning

you have no faith at all
a dead faith
a faith that will get you killed

you need to be MORE RIGHTEOUS than the dead phariseess more righteous than the pople and more righteous than the sunday keepers

you need the rightousness the right doing of Christ

 

[2Thewaters]

once saved alwys aved was invented my men in their self righteousness and it is no where to be found in the bible

they realized they couldnt stop sinning on their own so they came to the false concusion that we cant stop sinnig
so they invented a religion where you keep on sinning and go into heven

that will not happen

if you are not born again by the blood of Jesus
and by the power of JEsus blood stop sinning
you are going to be sad;y disappointed


Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

iniquity is LAWBREAKING

depart from me you breakers of the commandments

you dont know me
you dont have my bld
you trample on my blod like it is nothing
a thing of nought

the blod gives you the power to stop every sin NOW

and it is nothing I did

it is Jesus give to me

perfect commandment keeping by the blood of Jesus

you need that before the 7th plague is poured out

or yo will perish

so get born again
ask for it

keep on sinning and being saved is not the truth.

no where
no how
in the Bible does it say

KEEP ON SINNING cause you are going to heaven
that is error.

you have to keep the LAW PERFECTLY by the blood of Jesus
who forgives every sin right now

and makes you walk PERFECTLY from here on out

justification blood of JEsus forgiveness

sanctification lawkeeping power by JEsus blood and love for hu=im

you cannot deny these Bible doctrines

Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.


ok Lord

you promised
make me born again


Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

 

[2Thewaters]

Jesus tells YOU

to be perfect

how you going to do that?
you cant even stop breaking the Sabbath?

sin is the transgression fo the law

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1 John 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.


when you ABIDE IN HIM YOU DONT BREAK ACOMMANDMENTS ANY MORE


if you are breaking commandments you are not in him not in the word of God
so get there.
pray on knees and get there

that is your duty

not teaching people to be perverts, liers sinnners and stealers and expect to go to heaven so you can mess heaven up too

sinners are not goig to heaven
hundreds of verses say that

so

keep the law perfectly now
how?
give your self to JEsus nad He will dwell in you and follow his word in all things and his power will keep you from lying
keep you from stealing

 

[eternally-gratefull]

once saved alwys aved was invented my men in their self righteousness and it is no where to be found in the bible

they realized they couldnt stop sinning on their own so they came to the false concusion that we cant stop sinnig
so they invented a religion where you keep on sinning and go into heven

that will not happen

if you are not born again by the blood of Jesus
and by the power of JEsus blood stop sinning
you are going to be sad;y disappointed


Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

iniquity is LAWBREAKING

depart from me you breakers of the commandments

you dont know me
you dont have my bld
you trample on my blod like it is nothing
a thing of nought

the blod gives you the power to stop every sin NOW

and it is nothing I did

it is Jesus give to me

perfect commandment keeping by the blood of Jesus

you need that before the 7th plague is poured out

or yo will perish

so get born again
ask for it

keep on sinning and being saved is not the truth.

no where
no how
in the Bible does it say

KEEP ON SINNING cause you are going to heaven
that is error.

you have to keep the LAW PERFECTLY by the blood of Jesus
who forgives every sin right now

and makes you walk PERFECTLY from here on out

justification blood of JEsus forgiveness

sanctification lawkeeping power by JEsus blood and love for hu=im

you cannot deny these Bible doctrines

Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.


ok Lord

you promised
make me born again


Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

alot of babble here.

Gen 26 is too late, In gen 15 Abraham was saved merely on his belief in Christ. Gen 26 PROVES what Jesus delared in Gen 15: 6 before he did ANY of those works.

Legalism is a gospel of satan, and is no gospel at all.

 

[2Thewaters]

it is sad you dont have a relationship with the Lord strong enough to be obedient to him

but you have been told you dont need it

so how is you going to pray for that when you dont think you need it?

if you would just believe it
you could pray for it
and if youprayed for it
believing you needed it
he would give it to you

hundreds of people have reall relationships with Jesus and have stopped sinning by the power in the blood of Jesus

this is the gospel
you can stop sinning now by the blood of Jesus
who saves you fROM SINNING
who CLEANSES YOUR CHARACTER

it is sad yo dont know the gospel of grace (power to do right)