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People believe what they want to believe... truth has nothing to do with it.
L
Last
Guest
No Lucifer doesn't mean morning star. Lucis means light, ferre means carry.. light carrier.
Lucifer means morning star. That is the KJV's translation for הֵילֵל
KJV - Daniel refers to the Hebrew word הֵילֵל meaning morning star, translates it as Lucifer
KJV - Revelation refers to the Greek words for morning star, translates it as morning star
NIV - Daniel refers to the Hebrew word הֵילֵל meaning morning star, translates it as morning star
NIV - Revelation refers to the Greek words for morning star, translates it as morning star
L
Last
Guest
Passover 2014 began in the evening of[COLOR=#212121 !important]Monday, April 14
Sunday, April 20
[/COLOR]
- [COLOR=#878787 !important]Easter Sunday 2014[/COLOR]
What? ??? ????
K
Kerry
Guest
KJV1611, were are to preach the truth, it does not say that the truth would be accepted, but to preach it anyway. Even if we are kicked out of town on a rail. Keep preaching brother.
Who was standing on the seashore in Revelation 13:1? Was it John or the Dragon (i.e. the devil)?
Some Modern Translations has this as the devil. So here we have two completely different Bibles.
If the Modern Translations are your authority, then how do you decide which Bible is your authority?
None of them agree with each other. Yet the Bible makes the claim that it is perfect and that it would be preserved for ALL generations. Is God's Word lying? I don't think so. See, it takes faith to believe those passages in your Bible. The thing is, the Anti-KJV-onlyist doesn't believe in what those passages actually say. This is a problem, because without faith, it is impossible to please Him. For how is it of faith to deny the plain straight forward meaning of Scripture?
I'd say it's most likely that it was the Beast standing on the shore, given the earliest manuscripts. I believe this is a text critical thing, rather than a translation issue.
I decide which Bible is my authority based on the earliest manuscripts. They agree with each other for about 99% of the entire text, and the handful of verses that actually matter in difference between translations, including the KJV, are literally that - you can count then on one hand. It's not about denying the straight forward meaning of Scripture, or not having faith in God. It's about the fact that saying the KJV is the pure, 100% true and accurate and correct version of Scripture in lieu of every other translation that has ever existed.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of [SUP][b][/SUP]their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
Contradiction – The members of the first resurrection will rule with Christ during the thousand year reign… they are not resurrected until after the thousand year reign of Christ.
Sorry, I'm dumb. You'll have to point out to me a little more clearly where you think the problem is, and how this translation differs in this passage to the KJV.
Contradiction - Jesus is the morning star, Satan is the morning star.
Revelation 22:16New American Standard Bible (NASB)
16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things [a]for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”
Isaiah 14:12New American Standard Bible (NASB)
12 “How you have fallen from heaven,
O [a]star of the morning, son of the dawn!
You have been cut down to the earth,
You who have weakened the nations!
Ignoring whether or not Isaiah is actually talking about Satan or not, I don't see how this is a contradiction. Describing two people in a similar manner does not make a contradiction, any more than both Jesus and the devil are compared to lions. The whole point of Isaiah 14 is that one is trying to make themselves powerful and wondrous, but is unsuccessful, and thus falls. A completely different matter to the depiction of Jesus in Revelation 22.
K
Kerry
Guest
We get caught up on this or that and we are derailed at times. That's a given, we are flesh. We must stay focused on the work of the cross. The King James was given to us by the Holy Spirit with the loss of men's life who fought for it. This was a battle and routed by the Catholic church. Who denied it and fought against it and killed many men who supported it. William Tyndale and others who died so that every plow boy in England could have the word of God. So that could for the first time read the word of God for them self and not rely or pay the priest.
Guess what this KJV lead to. The people read word and saw the lie of the church and packed into ships which ran out of water and suffered scurvy to land on the coast of America and die from pestilence and natives. Yet they held to that word that King James gave them and continued.
Then stood against the most powerful nation on Earth and said leave in the name of Jesus. That word set us free and brought about a government that had never existed before. Now nations are trying to model their government after ours. Because we fought against socialism and communism and won in two world wars and fighting on two different fronts.
And we want to belittle the KJV. Without it we be speaking German. Put that in your pipe and smoke it while you read the atheist altered NIV.
Guess what this KJV lead to. The people read word and saw the lie of the church and packed into ships which ran out of water and suffered scurvy to land on the coast of America and die from pestilence and natives. Yet they held to that word that King James gave them and continued.
Then stood against the most powerful nation on Earth and said leave in the name of Jesus. That word set us free and brought about a government that had never existed before. Now nations are trying to model their government after ours. Because we fought against socialism and communism and won in two world wars and fighting on two different fronts.
And we want to belittle the KJV. Without it we be speaking German. Put that in your pipe and smoke it while you read the atheist altered NIV.
No Lucifer doesn't mean morning star. Lucis means light, ferre means carry.. light carrier.
This old chestnut. Read an earlier post of mine on another thread here - I'm not going to repost it directly to this thread, because it's not worth taking up the space.
Basically, Lucifer as meaning only light carrier is an etymological fallacy. When you look through other Greek and Latin literature (particularly Cicero), it quickly becomes clear that the referent of the relevant Greek and Latin terms is actually usually to a kind of stellar object. But even if I were to conceded the reading of Lucifer as being light carrier, not morning star, the argument against the modern translations is irrelevant, because Isaiah is clearly teaching that this morning star is not really a true morning star, precisely because it has been cast down for thinking too highly of itself, and puffing itself up before God. Either way, it is a moot point.
K
Kerry
Guest
This old chestnut. Read an earlier post of mine on another thread here - I'm not going to repost it directly to this thread, because it's not worth taking up the space.
Basically, Lucifer as meaning only light carrier is an etymological fallacy. When you look through other Greek and Latin literature (particularly Cicero), it quickly becomes clear that the referent of the relevant Greek and Latin terms is actually usually to a kind of stellar object. But even if I were to conceded the reading of Lucifer as being light carrier, not morning star, the argument against the modern translations is irrelevant, because Isaiah is clearly teaching that this morning star is not really a true morning star, precisely because it has been cast down for thinking too highly of itself, and puffing itself up before God. Either way, it is a moot point.
As you said it is a moot point and don't really mean any thing. I love you brother, but what difference does it make. So Satan was called a cherry lollipop who cares. I just want to know what affects me and my family and what I must do to enter the gates. All this historical and Greek and Hebrew means nothing to me, Because I don't speak Greek or Hebrew I speak American and so do my children.
I meant, if I get saved do I have to go to college and learn Hebrew and Greek in order to understand God. Must I divulge into the intricacies of the law. Thank God for the KJV. It handles that for me. in fact it is the very reason that KJV was created. Many people died that I might be able to read the word in my own Language and did not have to learn Latin or Hebrew or Greek or Aramaic.
How many people died for the NIV? and how many made millions?
L
Last
Guest
We get caught up on this or that and we are derailed at times. That's a given, we are flesh. We must stay focused on the work of the cross. The King James was given to us by the Holy Spirit
No, the KJV was given to the world by the king of England and the work of translators. It is just one of those translations of many out there.
with the loss of men's life who fought for it.
No one died for it.
This was a battle and routed by the Catholic church. Who denied it and fought against it and killed many men who supported it.
No it didn't.
William Tyndale and others who died so that every plow boy in England could have the word of God. So that could for the first time read the word of God for them self and not rely or pay the priest.
No one needed a priest to have access to bible. Anyone that could read and afford one could have one. The only people that could already knew Latin. The Latin bible was the standard bible in the west. It was to the people of the day what the KJV is like to KJV-onlyist.
Tyndale was killed for his criticism of Henry VIII.
Guess what this KJV lead to. The people read word and saw the lie of the church and packed into ships which ran out of water and suffered scurvy to land on the coast of America and die from pestilence and natives. Yet they held to that word that King James gave them and continued.
Wrong. The Puritans came to America because they found England to restrictive. They went to Holland and found the Dutch to be too unrestrictive. So they decided to make up their own government.
Then stood against the most powerful nation on Earth and said leave in the name of Jesus. That word set us free and brought about a government that had never existed before. Now nations are trying to model their government after ours. Because we fought against socialism and communism and won in two world wars and fighting on two different fronts.
WRONG. wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.
America was founded by colonists seeking money. The first colonists were not puritans - they were tobacco farmers in Virgina. The puritans made up a very small part of the 13 colonies by the time of the revolution.
And we want to belittle the KJV. Without it we be speaking German. Put that in your pipe and smoke it while you read the atheist altered NIV.
Germany would have lost the war with or without the US.
K
Kerry
Guest
K
Kerry
Guest
I shouldn't have to do this you should already know
William Tyndale (sometimes spelled Tynsdale, Tindall, Tindill, Tyndall; c. 1494–1536) was an English scholar who became a leading figure in Protestant reform in the years leading up to his execution. He is well known for his translation of the Bible into English. He was influenced by the work of Desiderius Erasmus, who made the Greek New Testament available in Europe, and by Martin Luther.[SUP][1][/SUP]While a number of partial and incomplete translations had been made from the seventh century onward, the grass-roots spread ofWycliffe's Bible resulted in a death sentence for any unlicensed possession of Scripture in English—even though translations in all other major European languages had been accomplished and made available.[SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP] Tyndale's translation was the first English Bible to draw directly from Hebrew and Greek texts, the first English one to take advantage of the printing press, and first of the new English Bibles of the Reformation. It was taken to be a direct challenge to the hegemony of both the Roman Catholic Church and English Laws to maintain church rulings. In 1530, Tyndale also wrote The Practyse of Prelates, opposing Henry VIII's divorce on the grounds that it contravened Scripture.
Tyndale had to learn Hebrew in Germany due to England's active Edict of Expulsion against the Jews. He worked in an age where Greek was available to the European scholarly community for the first time in centuries. Erasmus compiled and edited Greek Scriptures into the Textus Receptus—ironically, to improve upon the Latin Vulgate—following the Renaissance-fueling Fall of Constantinople in 1453 and the dispersion of Greek-speaking intellectuals and texts into a Europe which previously had access to none. Sharing Erasmus' translation ideals, Tyndale took the ill-regarded, unpopular and awkward Middle-English "vulgar" tongue, improved upon it using Greek and Hebrew syntaxes and idioms, and formed an Early Modern English basis that Shakespeare and others would later follow and build upon as Tyndale-inspired vernacular forms took over.[SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][4][/SUP] When a copy of The Obedience of a Christian Man fell into the hands of Henry VIII, the king found the rationale to break the Church in England from the Roman Catholic Church in 1534.[SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][page needed][/SUP]
In 1535, Tyndale was arrested and jailed in the castle of Vilvoorde (Filford) outside Brussels for over a year. In 1536 he was convicted of heresy and executed by strangulation, after which his body was burnt at the stake. His dying request that the King of England's eyes would be opened seemed to find its fulfillment just two years later with Henry's authorization of The Great Bible for the Church of England—which was largely Tyndale's own work. Hence, the Tyndale Bible, as it was known, continued to play a key role in spreading Reformation ideas across the English-speaking world and eventually, on the global British Empire.
Notably, in 1611, the 54 independent scholars who created the King James Version drew significantly from Tyndale, as well as translations that descended from his. One estimate suggests the New Testament in the King James Version is 83% Tyndale's, and the Old Testament 76%.[SUP][6][/SUP] With his translation of the Bible the first ever to be printed in English, and a model for subsequent English translations, in 2002, Tyndale was placed at number 26 in the BBC's poll of the 100 Greatest Britons.[SUP][7][/SUP][SUP][8]
No one was killed right[/SUP]
William Tyndale (sometimes spelled Tynsdale, Tindall, Tindill, Tyndall; c. 1494–1536) was an English scholar who became a leading figure in Protestant reform in the years leading up to his execution. He is well known for his translation of the Bible into English. He was influenced by the work of Desiderius Erasmus, who made the Greek New Testament available in Europe, and by Martin Luther.[SUP][1][/SUP]While a number of partial and incomplete translations had been made from the seventh century onward, the grass-roots spread ofWycliffe's Bible resulted in a death sentence for any unlicensed possession of Scripture in English—even though translations in all other major European languages had been accomplished and made available.[SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP] Tyndale's translation was the first English Bible to draw directly from Hebrew and Greek texts, the first English one to take advantage of the printing press, and first of the new English Bibles of the Reformation. It was taken to be a direct challenge to the hegemony of both the Roman Catholic Church and English Laws to maintain church rulings. In 1530, Tyndale also wrote The Practyse of Prelates, opposing Henry VIII's divorce on the grounds that it contravened Scripture.
Tyndale had to learn Hebrew in Germany due to England's active Edict of Expulsion against the Jews. He worked in an age where Greek was available to the European scholarly community for the first time in centuries. Erasmus compiled and edited Greek Scriptures into the Textus Receptus—ironically, to improve upon the Latin Vulgate—following the Renaissance-fueling Fall of Constantinople in 1453 and the dispersion of Greek-speaking intellectuals and texts into a Europe which previously had access to none. Sharing Erasmus' translation ideals, Tyndale took the ill-regarded, unpopular and awkward Middle-English "vulgar" tongue, improved upon it using Greek and Hebrew syntaxes and idioms, and formed an Early Modern English basis that Shakespeare and others would later follow and build upon as Tyndale-inspired vernacular forms took over.[SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][4][/SUP] When a copy of The Obedience of a Christian Man fell into the hands of Henry VIII, the king found the rationale to break the Church in England from the Roman Catholic Church in 1534.[SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][page needed][/SUP]
In 1535, Tyndale was arrested and jailed in the castle of Vilvoorde (Filford) outside Brussels for over a year. In 1536 he was convicted of heresy and executed by strangulation, after which his body was burnt at the stake. His dying request that the King of England's eyes would be opened seemed to find its fulfillment just two years later with Henry's authorization of The Great Bible for the Church of England—which was largely Tyndale's own work. Hence, the Tyndale Bible, as it was known, continued to play a key role in spreading Reformation ideas across the English-speaking world and eventually, on the global British Empire.
Notably, in 1611, the 54 independent scholars who created the King James Version drew significantly from Tyndale, as well as translations that descended from his. One estimate suggests the New Testament in the King James Version is 83% Tyndale's, and the Old Testament 76%.[SUP][6][/SUP] With his translation of the Bible the first ever to be printed in English, and a model for subsequent English translations, in 2002, Tyndale was placed at number 26 in the BBC's poll of the 100 Greatest Britons.[SUP][7][/SUP][SUP][8]
No one was killed right[/SUP]
L
Last
Guest
And your resources are? Ask William Tyndale as he was hung for putting the word in to English.
What do you doubt?
Tyndale had criticized Henry VIII's recent divorce. In regards to being hung, his last words were "Lord! Open the King of England's eyes." Henry VIII was already in the process of getting an English translation made - which was published just four years later. Had nothing to do with translating the bible.
L
Last
Guest
I shouldn't have to do this you should already know
William Tyndale (sometimes spelled Tynsdale, Tindall, Tindill, Tyndall; c. 1494–1536) was an English scholar who became a leading figure in Protestant reform in the years leading up to his execution. He is well known for his translation of the Bible into English. He was influenced by the work of Desiderius Erasmus, who made the Greek New Testament available in Europe, and by Martin Luther.[SUP][1][/SUP]While a number of partial and incomplete translations had been made from the seventh century onward, the grass-roots spread ofWycliffe's Bible resulted in a death sentence for any unlicensed possession of Scripture in English—even though translations in all other major European languages had been accomplished and made available.[SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP] Tyndale's translation was the first English Bible to draw directly from Hebrew and Greek texts, the first English one to take advantage of the printing press, and first of the new English Bibles of the Reformation. It was taken to be a direct challenge to the hegemony of both the Roman Catholic Church and English Laws to maintain church rulings. In 1530, Tyndale also wrote The Practyse of Prelates, opposing Henry VIII's divorce on the grounds that it contravened Scripture.
Tyndale had to learn Hebrew in Germany due to England's active Edict of Expulsion against the Jews. He worked in an age where Greek was available to the European scholarly community for the first time in centuries. Erasmus compiled and edited Greek Scriptures into the Textus Receptus—ironically, to improve upon the Latin Vulgate—following the Renaissance-fueling Fall of Constantinople in 1453 and the dispersion of Greek-speaking intellectuals and texts into a Europe which previously had access to none. Sharing Erasmus' translation ideals, Tyndale took the ill-regarded, unpopular and awkward Middle-English "vulgar" tongue, improved upon it using Greek and Hebrew syntaxes and idioms, and formed an Early Modern English basis that Shakespeare and others would later follow and build upon as Tyndale-inspired vernacular forms took over.[SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][4][/SUP] When a copy of The Obedience of a Christian Man fell into the hands of Henry VIII, the king found the rationale to break the Church in England from the Roman Catholic Church in 1534.[SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][page needed][/SUP]
In 1535, Tyndale was arrested and jailed in the castle of Vilvoorde (Filford) outside Brussels for over a year. In 1536 he was convicted of heresy and executed by strangulation, after which his body was burnt at the stake. His dying request that the King of England's eyes would be opened seemed to find its fulfillment just two years later with Henry's authorization of The Great Bible for the Church of England—which was largely Tyndale's own work. Hence, the Tyndale Bible, as it was known, continued to play a key role in spreading Reformation ideas across the English-speaking world and eventually, on the global British Empire.
Notably, in 1611, the 54 independent scholars who created the King James Version drew significantly from Tyndale, as well as translations that descended from his. One estimate suggests the New Testament in the King James Version is 83% Tyndale's, and the Old Testament 76%.[SUP][6][/SUP] With his translation of the Bible the first ever to be printed in English, and a model for subsequent English translations, in 2002, Tyndale was placed at number 26 in the BBC's poll of the 100 Greatest Britons.[SUP][7][/SUP][SUP][8]
No one was killed right[/SUP]
No one died for the KJV. Tyndale didn't make the KJV and he died for his criticisms of Henry VIII - who published an English bible just a few years later!
K
Kerry
Guest
It was Tyndale that said he would put a bible for every plow boy in England and He died for that effort. How many died for the NIV?
L
Last
Guest
It was Tyndale that said he would put a bible for every plow boy in England and He died for that effort. How many died for the NIV?
No, he died for ticking off Henry VIII.
L
Last
Guest
K
Kerry
Guest
Dude you need to study some history before you speak. Many died for the english translation. Thats why the King James was a smack in the face of he church of England and the Church of Rome. Many died for the Gospel of Christ and many died for the bible as we know it.
L
Last
Guest
Dude you need to study some history before you speak. Many died for the english translation. Thats why the King James was a smack in the face of he church of England and the Church of Rome. Many died for the Gospel of Christ and many died for the bible as we know it.
You seem to be the one quite uninformed. The King James was produced by KING JAMES!! who was the head of the Church of England! Since Catholicism was illegal in Britain where English is spoken, it really didn't impact the Catholic Church.