PURGATORY DOES NOT EXIST - IT IS A FALSE TEACHING BY THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH

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didymos said:
1) True, the verb is purgare, I learnt my verbs as infinitives 2) purgatory isn't derived from the english word 'to purge,' but from the latin.
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I said the word is a derivative, I didn't mention what language. If you'd like to knock a little strawman, go for it.

Just read up on your canon history. What the protestants call apocrypha the catholics call deutero-canonical, so second rate canonical. The prostants never 'removed' it from the canon, just never incorperated in into their canon. In some protestant bibles you do find those books, but as an appendix.
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Call it second rate because it uses '2' is like saying any of the epistles that are second letters are second rate. Protestants did remove it from what was accepted as canon by all Christians until the Reformation. That is why Catholics, Orthodox, and Coptics use it, but protestants do not.


I DO have a point, you said the protestants removed the apocraypha from the Bible because 'they' mention purgatory (which is false.) My dutch (protestant) Statenvertaling (of 1637) still has the apocrypha in it, albeit as an appendix. Not all dutch ARE protestants btw, there's a catholic majority in the south.
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I was speaking generally. Most people would get that. If you are just going to split hairs and fight strawmen, there is no point in going on.

NEVER of the proper canon, but as DEUTERO- canonical books, so as a second rate canon.

Btw I'm done correcting your ignorant comments.
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You've never addressed anything I said. In this post, you-
1) want to argue about which language the word purgatory comes from - which was a strawman.
2) Went on splitting hairs about the fact that some protestants may have bibles containing the texts and that there are some Dutch Catholics
3) Call the texts 'second rate' because it is sometimes called second (Deutero). I guess 1 Peter is better than 2 Peter.
 
notuptome said:
Really? Romanism teaches that one must be baptized, receive communion, and have the cooperation of the church to enter heaven.
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False.

I read the passage in 2 Macabees for myself.
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Then you need to have your memory checked.

I only share with you Gods word.
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No, you have made a lot of judgments and accusations in addition to other forms of attacks. You've not really mentioned scripture at all.

If your heart is judged it is by Gods word and not me.
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You are not God's word, your false judgments and accusations about other people are your own.

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jag1977 said:
So if Hell is the true place of eternal torment how is it that Hell is cast into the Lake of Fire? Sounds to me like Hell really isn't, the Lake of Fire is that eternal place of torment.
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Dan 12:2 “And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

”Please note:- all those who believe in purgatory.


First of all we can see that while you are in the grave you are in a sleeping state and not in a spiritual state floating around until Jesus Christ comes. There are two groups of people that will be resurrected namely those which will join God and experience everlasting life and then those that will eventually be destroyed.


Joh 5:28-29 “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
It confirms here that there will be two resurrections ie. the resurrection of life and the resurrection of damnation. It also confirms that all the dead in the graves will hear His voice and will be resurrected, and NOT IN PURGATORY.


Job 19:25-26 “For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: and though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God.”
Job confirms here that we will have a fleshly body when we are resurrected.


Zeph 3:8 “Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the Lord, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.”
Here is also proof that the unsaved plus the earth shall be devoured by fire. Nothing of the unsaved will exist after this, as this is what devouring means.



1 Thes 4:16-17 “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and shall we ever be with the Lord.”
From this text we can see that firstly that the dead in Christ, the saved ones who are dead in their graves, will rise first. The other living saved ones will join the dead ones, now living saved, on the cloud on its way to heaven.


Why am I quoting all of this? First of all, to prove to all purgatory believers that purgatory does not exist where spirits will be flying around in a separate area until judgement day and secondly, there will be no Everlasting Hell Fire. The everlasting Hell Fire would also not be fair to the person who sinned the least. Why must he be punished for the same length as Satan? Once the non-saved have been destroyed or devoured, that is it. There will be nothing left.
 
4enlightment said:
Time of testing is a time to see how

pur·ga·to·ry
ˈpərgəˌtôrē/
noun
[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]

  • 1.
    (in Roman Catholic doctrine) a place or state of suffering inhabited by the souls of sinners who are expiating their sins before going to heaven.

    Galatians 6:7
    Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.


    Job had to go through testing (purgatory) as everyone else, except for God, because there is no need to test someone that is perfect. The time of testing is to show what we are lacking of and which God doesn't lack nothing because He is holy. Some people think that purgatory is a place that a soul goes to after this life, but it is a period in our life time to see what we has produced. But they are people that cannot be taught, and so they stay in this place until they've learn from their mistakes, but when the door is shut, those that doesn't learn, will be trapped in this state forever like lost souls.
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Am I right to say that you have extracted this from Roman Catholic documentation? If your answer is yes, then I cannot accept it as being correct as it is not part of the KJV Bible.
 
ThomistColin said:
So that we could be forgiven and be allowed to enter Heaven. Tell me, since you accepted Christ, do you still sin? The reason we still sin is because we are not perfect. Our flesh and our mind are still fallen. When we die, the flesh is gone, but our mind (our will) is still with us. So, how does this will become perfected? It becomes perfected through Christ. How this is done, we don't know. But we call the process "purgation" and the so called place, better put the state in which this process happens is called purgatory. Its for the saved alone. No one who isn't saved will be perfected.

Now you may ask, how long does this take? Doesn't the church teach you will be there for centuries? The answers are "we don't know" and "maybe, but more likely it doesn't take time...since we will be Christ and time is irrelevant." It may be instantaneous, but to our feeble minds the process may feel somewhat longer, since in this purgation Christ perfects us mind and soul. On the day of our resurrection, the perfect body will be supplied.
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I am not questioning your life whether you are sinning or not as you know exactly where you sin and so do I. So does everybody. Rather stick to the subjects that are discussed and debate it in an adult manner and not divert by pointing fingers or changing the focus point.
It is quite obvious from your arguments above that you believe in the "I don't know or maybe- theory", published by your church, and you are willing to start an argument without facts? I do not belong to a church and can therefore not be brainwashed to believe all sorts of junk that is dished up to me. My facts came through studying and analyzing the given facts. It is like building a puzzle from all the small pieces. I don't just grab one piece and say that because there is a small picture which appears to be that of something familiar on it, that it is the same when the puzzle has been completed. My intentions on this site is to help people to understand some of the many misguided teachings that is being taught in the churches today and you need to understand why I am doing it. I am doing it because I work for God and that is what He expects from me. I do not have to defend a church or any particular teaching. I defend God's Word and not other scriptures laying on a shelf somewhere. I have found the Bible to be complete for all my studies and I do not need any other outside documents to prove my points. You are welcome to accept it.
 
TruthFromFrank said:
Please explain what you understand from purgatory, because what I have talked about is a pure catholic teaching which is non-biblical.
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I already did that. The idea that purgatory is a resisting place for souls until the resurrection is not correct.
 
TruthFromFrank said:
First of all we can see that while you are in the grave you are in a sleeping state and not in a spiritual state floating around until Jesus Christ comes. There are two groups of people that will be resurrected namely those which will join God and experience everlasting life and then those that will eventually be destroyed.
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So you are a Seventh Day Adventist?
 
ThomistColin said:
........................... We all still sin willingly............................
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That is not true. If you sin it is because you make a choice to. That is called walking in the flesh. If you walk in the flesh you can't please God. Pretty sure God isn't going to have someone in heaven with Him that displeases Him.

Why do you choose to sin? Why don't you choose to not sin instead?
 
James 4:7, "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."
 
I have a theory about what happens when you die. I have no evidence to back this up by the way its just a theory...tell me what you think!
my mum and dad have both passed away to be with The Lord and I sometimes wonder about them. I believe that they are "in their spirits" now with The Lord in Glory ( by interior spirits I mean in conscious reality to them right now"
i had my appendix removed a few years back now and as I was lying there talking to the girl in the pre op room she told me that she was giving me my anaesthetic and I would slowly drop off to sleep. To my recollection those words were the last thing I had any consciousness of until I was awakening two hours later in recovery having had the operation. For the rest of the world time had continued on everyone with their jobs and routines but for me time was suspended it was as if the two events of falling asleep and weakening in recovery were-seamless and instantaneous , much like falling asleep each night (only without any dreams or toilet trips lol).
now I think that that is what it is like for my mum and dad. They await the ressurection of the dead like all those who have passed away, but to them, in their consciousness that ressurection will be instantaneous, without any sense of a time lag....as they are now in eternity outside of time. To them "absence from the body" will literally be "presence with The Lord".
when Christ said to the thief on the cross "this day you will be with me in paradise" to the thief thats exactly what it will be...no passing of time just instantaneously present in eternity with The Lord.
well that just my wee theory..!
 
Pottyone said:
I have a theory about what happens when you die. I have no evidence to back this up by the way its just a theory...tell me what you think!
my mum and dad have both passed away to be with The Lord and I sometimes wonder about them. I believe that they are "in their spirits" now with The Lord in Glory ( by interior spirits I mean in conscious reality to them right now"
i had my appendix removed a few years back now and as I was lying there talking to the girl in the pre op room she told me that she was giving me my anaesthetic and I would slowly drop off to sleep. To my recollection those words were the last thing I had any consciousness of until I was awakening two hours later in recovery having had the operation. For the rest of the world time had continued on everyone with their jobs and routines but for me time was suspended it was as if the two events of falling asleep and weakening in recovery were-seamless and instantaneous , much like falling asleep each night (only without any dreams or toilet trips lol).
now I think that that is what it is like for my mum and dad. They await the ressurection of the dead like all those who have passed away, but to them, in their consciousness that ressurection will be instantaneous, without any sense of a time lag....as they are now in eternity outside of time. To them "absence from the body" will literally be "presence with The Lord".
when Christ said to the thief on the cross "this day you will be with me in paradise" to the thief thats exactly what it will be...no passing of time just instantaneously present in eternity with The Lord.
well that just my wee theory..!
Click to expand...

Dan 12:2 “And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

”Please note:- all those who believe in purgatory.


First of all we can see that while you are in the grave you are in a sleeping state and not in a spiritual state floating around until Jesus Christ comes. There are two groups of people that will be resurrected namely those which will join God and experience everlasting life and then those that will eventually be destroyed.


Joh 5:28-29 “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
It confirms here that there will be two resurrections ie. the resurrection of life and the resurrection of damnation. It also confirms that all the dead in the graves will hear His voice and will be resurrected, and NOT IN PURGATORY.


Job 19:25-26 “For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: and though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God.”
Job confirms here that we will have a fleshly body when we are resurrected.


Zeph 3:8 “Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the Lord, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.”
Here is also proof that the unsaved plus the earth shall be devoured by fire. Nothing of the unsaved will exist after this, as this is what devouring means.



1 Thes 4:16-17 “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and shall we ever be with the Lord.”
From this text we can see that firstly that the dead in Christ, the saved ones who are dead in their graves, will rise first. The other living saved ones will join the dead ones, now living saved, on the cloud on its way to heaven.


Why am I quoting all of this? First of all, to prove to all purgatory believers that purgatory does not exist where spirits will be flying around in a separate area until judgement day and secondly, there will be no Everlasting Hell Fire. The everlasting Hell Fire would also not be fair to the person who sinned the least. Why must he be punished for the same length as Satan? Once the non-saved have been destroyed or devoured, that is it. There will be nothing left.
 
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